Australian special forces allegedly killed 39 unarmed Afghans - report

[scammed]

someone that hasnt killed a human is a liability in battle,

there is no telling if he is going to kill or flip out.

not excusing executions of pow & civilians,

its ultimately a selfish act by the commanders

with no empathy for humans whatsoever

 

[Natai Beach]

1 hour ago, Pilotman said:

they don't look bad to me, they sound like people doing a job that few in society would be prepare to do, to defend democracy and the way of way of life that all the hand wringing liberals enjoy, but don't like to acknowledge the price. don't criticise   unless you have served. 

Well, this is a quote from someone who served. He was there. I will listen to him. And backed up with video.

 

Footage shot by members of 3 Squadron SAS during the unit’s 2012 rotation through Afghanistan.

It shows the destruction of buildings, motorbikes and the shooting of dogs. 

“We try and say that we’re there to help and the Taliban are bad. But if we go in and we start destroying infrastructure or destroying their private vehicles and burning down their homes it doesn’t really send the right message,” Chapman said.

“They’re going to run straight back to the Taliban, who usually are not doing that.”

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-17/four-corners-sas-allegations-war-crimes/12028522?nw=0

 

 

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

Maybe we have (special forces) veterans here on TV and maybe they can elaborate.

 

Obviously what happened is very bad and it should not happen. But in a way I would be surprised if not basically all front line soldiers become something like crazy or dehumanized or psychologically disturbed at some stage. How can you stay "normal" under those conditions?

I was never in a war zone. But just by looking at some pictures and videos I get the idea being there must destroy the mind in some way.

That is obviously no excuse. But I think the problem is war in itself. People get crazy in the war.

 

I would love to see comments from veterans what they think about this.

[RJRS1301]

1 hour ago, Natai Beach said:

why did Australia declare war on Afghanistan?

 

They went in along with USA and some other nations to change a culture about which they knew little, for the sake of minerals and resources and the USA Australia alliance.  To keep a war machine operation for greedy individuals.

Oppressing one culture and attempting to inflict another, a task attempted for too many years by too many countries including Russia and none have done anything except destroy and kill and maim 

War has never been declaref

Edited November 20, 2020 by RJRS1301

[unblocktheplanet]

Maybe Oz shouldn't use the 'defence' of 'only following orders' of its Yank masters...

[simple1]

1 hour ago, Natai Beach said:

why did Australia declare war on Afghanistan?

 

 

Australia did not declare war of Afghanistan, nor did the USA.

[RJRS1301]

10 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Maybe we have (special forces) veterans here on TV and maybe they can elaborate.

 

Obviously what happened is very bad and it should not happen. But in a way I would be surprised if not basically all front line soldiers become something like crazy or dehumanized or psychologically disturbed at some stage. How can you stay "normal" under those conditions?

I was never in a war zone. But just by looking at some pictures and videos I get the idea being there must destroy the mind in some way.

That is obviously no excuse. But I think the problem is war in itself. People get crazy in the war.

 

I would love to see comments from veterans what they think about this.

The rate of defence personnel who suicide is an indictment of the manner in which governments subject “defence” people to unspeakable trauma .

Repeated trauma experienced by these people has a detrimental affect on them and their families is generational, mental health , violence, alcohol and drug misuse and suicide

[evadgib]

52 minutes ago, Natai Beach said:

Well, this is a quote from someone who served. He was there. I will listen to him. And backed up with video.

 

Footage shot by members of 3 Squadron SAS during the unit’s 2012 rotation through Afghanistan.

It shows the destruction of buildings, motorbikes and the shooting of dogs. 

“We try and say that we’re there to help and the Taliban are bad. But if we go in and we start destroying infrastructure or destroying their private vehicles and burning down their homes it doesn’t really send the right message,” Chapman said.

“They’re going to run straight back to the Taliban, who usually are not doing that.”

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-17/four-corners-sas-allegations-war-crimes/12028522?nw=0

That video doesn't back anything up. It's what they call 'chuntering'.

[simple1]

2 hours ago, Pilotman said:

standards of what exactly, killing people?  You fight fire with more intense fire or there is no point to any of it, a truth that politicos always fail to acknowledge . 

 

Which is besides the point, the OP is not talking to combat operations, but deliberate, targeted killing of restrained people and civilians under orders for the purpose of 'bloodying; i.e. war crimes.

[Scott]

Trolling graphic removed. 

[Caldera]

There's only one appropriate form of punishment for a piece of pond scum masquerading as a soldier who brings this amount of shame on his country.

[Thorgal]

33 minutes ago, evadgib said:

That video doesn't back anything up. It's what they call 'chuntering'.

 

The video and the 39 civilians is only the tip of the iceberg.

 

Systematic and selective cleansing of local population was witnessed and reported since 2012.

 

Quote from link:

 

“Since 2001 more than 400 former and serving Australian Defence personnel have taken their own lives.”

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-16/australian-kevin-frost-who-raised-afghanistan-war-crimes-dead/11802068

 

[Sujo]

4 hours ago, Pilotman said:

great in theory, doesn't always compute in actual combat.  Some things are just not that black or white.  

What combat. The adf has said there was none.

[Sujo]

3 hours ago, Pilotman said:

they don't look bad to me, they sound like people doing a job that few in society would be prepare to do, to defend democracy and the way of way of life that all the hand wringing liberals enjoy, but don't like to acknowledge the price. don't criticise   unless you have served. 

Killing unnarmed civilians and prisoners of war so that a person can get used to killing is your norm? Go figure.

 

no they were not doing a job, thats why they have been charged.

 

are you saying the head of the armed forces is wrong? You do know he has served dont you. Is he a liberal?

 

btw, some of us that served dont need to shout it from the rooftops, but we know right from wrong, its sad that you do not and give a blatant free pass for murder just because we wear a uniform.

Edited November 20, 2020 by Sujo

[Scott]

A post containing disguised profanity has been removed.  

 

[Edwin Cameron]

War is war, that's what happens in areas of conflict,somtimes innocent people are killed,just remember the 'Taliban' don't wear uniforms.

 

[scorecard]

9 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

Maybe Oz shouldn't use the 'defence' of 'only following orders' of its Yank masters...

Is the Australian gov't/Australian military actually saying that?

[simple1]

1 hour ago, Edwin Cameron said:

War is war, that's what happens in areas of conflict, somtimes innocent people are killed, just remember the 'Taliban' don't wear uniforms.

 

 

I suggest you and some other posters read the OP before posting. There is no mention of collateral damage, unintended killing of innocents, but deliberate one on one targeting of POWs and civilians for the purpose of 'bloodying'. In today's media here in Oz it is claimed some of the murderers (9) will be offered immunity to testify against those who ordered the unlawful killings; war crimes. 

[RJRS1301]

9 hours ago, Caldera said:

There's only one appropriate form of punishment for a piece of pond scum masquerading as a soldier who brings this amount of shame on his country.

A trial and before that a THOROUGH investigation 

[Pravda]

Shouldn't NATO bomb Australia as they did with Serbia for war crimes back in 1999?

[papa al]

Did you order the code red?

 

You're damn right I did !

[RJRS1301]

10 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

Maybe Oz shouldn't use the 'defence' of 'only following orders' of its Yank masters...

Australian government has Not used that defence. The head of the services has accepted and acknowledged the report findings publicly 

Edited November 20, 2020 by RJRS1301

[Salerno]

2 hours ago, Edwin Cameron said:

War is war

 

Correct. And murder is murder regardless of the geolocation and the circumstances therein.

[Thorgal]

1 hour ago, Pravda said:

Shouldn't NATO bomb Australia as they did with Serbia for war crimes back in 1999?

 

Yugoslavian wars were under UN troops, read blue helmets with limited fire power performed by regular troops.

Afghanistan war was under NATO command with only special forces with unlimited fire power. War criminals of NATO will never be under trial in Den Hague because they don’t care about the conventions of Geneva.

 

The mass crimes back in 1999 were ethnic cleansing, mass raping, etc. on a larger scale and frequency on national or regional level.

OP is about unlawful executions, random unlawful killings on regiment level.

[RJRS1301]

Australia had 29,000 troop movements through Afghanistan.
29 individuals have been referred for further investigation for alleged war crimes. 

[Pravda]

39 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

Yugoslavian wars were under UN troops, read blue helmets with limited fire power performed by regular troops.

Afghanistan war was under NATO command with only special forces with unlimited fire power. War criminals of NATO will never be under trial in Den Hague because they don’t care about the conventions of Geneva.

 

The mass crimes back in 1999 were ethnic cleansing, mass raping, etc. on a larger scale and frequency on national or regional level.

OP is about unlawful executions, random unlawful killings on regiment level.

 

Which is war crimes

[Thorgal]

47 minutes ago, Pravda said:

 

Which is war crimes

 

Yes.

 

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2014/08/afghanistan-no-justice-thousands-civilians-killed-usnato-operations/

[Bluetongue]

Someone wrote war makes monsters of us all, but I will still wait for justice to prevail and not try and sit in judgement from some moral high ground

[olfu]

Do I understand properly that  Afghan military invaded Australia  or is this other way around?

And then it goes for 20 years already and our famous United Nation silent like its normal.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 11/20/2020 at 10:01 PM, Rookiescot said:

 

Nope. What they should have done is leave and offer 1 million dollars a year to all the tahlib warleaders if they kept Al Qaeda out of the country.

The west should then have gone after those people who fund Al Qaeda and nailed them as well. Regardless of the impact on oil prices.

If you catch my drift. 

My confused emoji was for first sentence. Do you actually believe they wouldn't have just taken the money and still allowed Al Qaeda to stay?

 

I agree with 2nd and 3rd sentence.