How are the bars, restaurants, agogos, massage shops, gentleman clubs and any business doing during covid?

scubascuba3 · May 16, 2022

Looks like Walking st agogos are doing ST3,000 LT5,000 plus bar fines up. Windmill persisting with ATKs so I won't go there until they drop it

https://youtu.be/3YXpx7QkQpw

Edited May 16, 2022 by scubascuba3

Leaver · May 16, 2022

15 hours ago, treetops said:

You have no experience in any type of hospitality or other business but still criticise on here endlessly.

Wrong.

As far as hospitality experience, I am a consumer, and catering to consumers is what "hospitality" is all about.

You don't need a degree in hospitality management to know how to please customers.

We all have a favorite bars, they are our favorite bars for a reason. Different bars appeal to different tastes, and that's fine, but some bar owners try to impart their own taste onto the customers, and expect the masses to like it, and not everyone will.

Another cause of failure here is over capitalizing. Too big, too nice, too new, too shiny, and the higher pries that go with it. Expats / tourists are price conscious. Poor exchange rates play a part, as well as other external factors, but the free spending 2 week millionaires were not as plentiful as in the past, pre covid.

Pre covid, bars were were being turned over to the next dreamer, only to be turned over again, or shut completely, 6 months later. Did these guys run a poor operation, or simply the pie had finally been cut into too many wedges?

15 hours ago, treetops said:

Why is that?

I think you will find I am more critical of of Thai landlords than individual bar owners. Thai landlords have pushed the market here to approach what the expat / tourist is not prepared to pay. Take your mind back to 2019, and bars and restaurants in Central Pattaya were struggling.

Leaver · May 16, 2022

6 hours ago, theshu25 said:

Because he is nothing but a know it all and always has to have the last word. Thats why i call him google.

I'll take that as a compliment. ????

So, what's an acceptable price for a lady drink and bar fine for you?

Would you pay 200 baht for a lady drink? Would you pay 250 baht for a lady drink? Would you pay 1000 baht for a bar fine? Would you pay 1500 baht for the bar fine?

It's not so much about affordability, but goes to lack of value. At what price would you stop buying lady drinks and paying bar fines?

You can personally attack me, but as these prices rise, it knocks more customers out of the game. It's not because the bar owner is greedy. Many of them are just slaves to their Thai landlord, and these prices have to go up to cover their biggest expense, the rent.

It's human nature to seek out better value. We joke at the Cheap Charlie title, but that Singha beer in one bar for 70 baht is the exact same Singha beer in another bar for 90 baht. It comes from the same factory. That only leaves the environment of the bar, and the staff, as the difference.

Is the environment in one bar worth paying 28.5% more for the beer than in the other bar, if they have a similar location, facilities, and staff services? Or, is most of that extra 28.% going straight to a Thai landlord in the higher priced bar?

Leaver · May 16, 2022

5 hours ago, aussiexpat said:

Because in his mind he is a bar guru that would make all bar owners billionaires if they were only as smart as him

Hardly.

I have empathy for bar owners here. As I have just posted, many are slaves to their Thai landlord, then add to that local police with tea money payments, then work permits etc, all within a legal system that does not look upon farang kindly, and I wish them all the best.

5 hours ago, aussiexpat said:

oh, and now he's so proud he can pick up a hooker on Line app and save 800 baht bar fine and thinks that makes him 'young and Tech savvy'

Same question to you as the other member. What is the line in the sand for lady drink prices and bar fine prices for you?

I used to pay 300 baht, no problem. Then it went to 500 baht, and I still paid it. Now it's over 500 baht, and the girl only wants 1000 baht and I don't see the point.

Does that make me a Cheap Charlie? If I paid 800 baht but refused to pay a 1000 baht bar fine, would that be ok with you? What if / when all the bars start charging a 1000 baht fine, or 1200 baht, or 1500 baht. When would you give your approval that's it's ok not to pay it and go the freelance route?

You've been here long enough, when's the last bar fine you paid? Be honest.

As far as "tech savvy" have you never used AirBnb, Uber, Bolt etc? Why is it fine for you to seek out a cheaper price on these apps, but you feel compelled to give a 800 baht donation to a bar owner?

Then, there's the Tinder app. Why is it ok to use that app in any other country, but you are a Cheap Charlie if you use it in Thailand?

I have said many times in the past the bar girl scene here will be digitally disrupted. The only question is to what degree. I would not be surprised if in years to come all the girls in the bars will be freelancers, except for service staff, as bar owners try to make ends meet.

6 hours ago, aussiexpat said:

He probably also believes them when they call him handsum sexy man lol

I look after the girls I interact with well. Why should I look after a bar owner?

You can personally attack me for meeting girls on apps, in the same way taxi industries and hotel industries all around the world attacked users of AirBnb and Uber in the early days, but eventually, these companies became mainstream, and are here to stay.

I have a friend coming back to Pattaya soon. He's been away over covid. Spoke to him the other day. He's got a different girl lined up for every day of the first week he's here. He told me the one he likes the most in the first week, he'll be with for the whole of the second week. He's also enjoyed a chat and a laugh with them well before he even arrives. Question for you is, is he a Cheap Charlie?

The Hammer2021 · May 16, 2022

Many are making a roaring recovery despite the efforts of the authorities- others are doing less well. Soi pothole, LKM, Soi Buakhao, treetown busy. Soi 5 Pratumnak busy. Hi so restaurants in Cozy Beach busy. Parts of Jomtien busy. Things are much improved on things last year

Leaver · May 16, 2022

5 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Looks like Walking st agogos are doing ST3,000 LT5,000 plus bar fines up.

Would you consider someone not willing to pay those prices, despite being able to afford them, a Cheap Charlie?

scubascuba3 · May 16, 2022

37 minutes ago, Leaver said:

He's also enjoyed a chat and a laugh with them well before he even arrives

That's unusual, as a rule they don't want to waste time on people not in Pattaya, plus they aren't that organised, maybe your mate is dreaming, it's not Mac Mickmanus?

scubascuba3 · May 16, 2022

21 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Would you consider someone not willing to pay those prices, despite being able to afford them, a Cheap Charlie?

Although i like going to agogos i stopped bar fining years ago, i can't justify paying 3,000+1,000+drinks when i can get what i want for 1,000. If i was a tourist and didn't have the time or knowledge then I'd probably pay it

PJ71 · May 16, 2022

44 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Hardly.

I have empathy for bar owners here. As I have just posted, many are slaves to their Thai landlord, then add to that local police with tea money payments, then work permits etc, all within a legal system that does not look upon farang kindly, and I wish them all the best.

Same question to you as the other member. What is the line in the sand for lady drink prices and bar fine prices for you?

I used to pay 300 baht, no problem. Then it went to 500 baht, and I still paid it. Now it's over 500 baht, and the girl only wants 1000 baht and I don't see the point.

Does that make me a Cheap Charlie? If I paid 800 baht but refused to pay a 1000 baht bar fine, would that be ok with you? What if / when all the bars start charging a 1000 baht fine, or 1200 baht, or 1500 baht. When would you give your approval that's it's ok not to pay it and go the freelance route?

You've been here long enough, when's the last bar fine you paid? Be honest.

As far as "tech savvy" have you never used AirBnb, Uber, Bolt etc? Why is it fine for you to seek out a cheaper price on these apps, but you feel compelled to give a 800 baht donation to a bar owner?

Then, there's the Tinder app. Why is it ok to use that app in any other country, but you are a Cheap Charlie if you use it in Thailand?

I have said many times in the past the bar girl scene here will be digitally disrupted. The only question is to what degree. I would not be surprised if in years to come all the girls in the bars will be freelancers, except for service staff, as bar owners try to make ends meet.

I look after the girls I interact with well. Why should I look after a bar owner?

You can personally attack me for meeting girls on apps, in the same way taxi industries and hotel industries all around the world attacked users of AirBnb and Uber in the early days, but eventually, these companies became mainstream, and are here to stay.

I have a friend coming back to Pattaya soon. He's been away over covid. Spoke to him the other day. He's got a different girl lined up for every day of the first week he's here. He told me the one he likes the most in the first week, he'll be with for the whole of the second week. He's also enjoyed a chat and a laugh with them well before he even arrives. Question for you is, is he a Cheap Charlie?

Relentless.....

Leaver · May 16, 2022

2 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

That's unusual, as a rule they don't want to waste time on people not in Pattaya, plus they aren't that organised, maybe your mate is dreaming, it's not Mac Mickmanus?

He's been here many times before and knows how to play the game. He's not a lonely and desperate guy looking for company online, with a view to getting over here and marrying one. He's not using the apps like a dating site. Knowing him, he would be very direct. In effect, he's booking in the girl, so it's in her interests to respond, in order to secure a future customer.

Leaver · May 16, 2022

10 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Although i like going to agogos i stopped bar fining years ago, i can't justify paying 3,000+1,000+drinks when i can get what i want for 1,000. If i was a tourist and didn't have the time or knowledge then I'd probably pay it

Over 2 years of covid, and even bar owners with youtube channels have talked about the scams and rip offs here to their audience.

When tourists do come back in big numbers, I would think many of them would have gained some knowledge of the Soi Baukhao area, where, as you say, the same good times can be had for a lot cheaper price.

It will be interesting to see if the market is prepared to pay the prices now being asked on Walking Street. I can't see it. LK Metro was taking customers away from Walking Street pre covid.

"Walking Street" is a brand, but at those prices, I can't see the brand lasting too long, especially when there is genuine competition a short distance away for a lot cheaper.

scubascuba3 · May 16, 2022

4 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Over 2 years of covid, and even bar owners with youtube channels have talked about the scams and rip offs here to their audience.

When tourists do come back in big numbers, I would think many of them would have gained some knowledge of the Soi Baukhao area, where, as you say, the same good times can be had for a lot cheaper price.

It will be interesting to see if the market is prepared to pay the prices now being asked on Walking Street. I can't see it. LK Metro was taking customers away from Walking Street pre covid.

"Walking Street" is a brand, but at those prices, I can't see the brand lasting too long, especially when there is genuine competition a short distance away for a lot cheaper.

Gentlemen clubs are much more popular now than they were BC so agogos have competition and they're half the price or less. Personally I don't like GCs and Walking st agogos are much better than LK Metro. When it comes down to it maybe the girls will drop their prices for ST like they use to but BF will stay as quoted 1,000-2,000

Leaver · May 16, 2022

6 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Gentlemen clubs are much more popular now than they were BC so agogos have competition and they're half the price or less. Personally I don't like GCs and Walking st agogos are much better than LK Metro. When it comes down to it maybe the girls will drop their prices for ST like they use to but BF will stay as quoted 1,000-2,000

No point a girl working in gogo on Walking Street if she never gets bar fined, while her friend working in a gogo in LK Metro is getting bar fined regularly, because the bar fines are cheaper.

How long before the girls working in Walking Street move to work up the road?

Maybe the Walking Street gogo marketing is, tell the guy ST is only 500 baht, but it's a 5500 baht bar fine. ????

treetops · May 16, 2022

3 hours ago, Leaver said:

Wrong.

As far as hospitality experience, I am a consumer, and catering to consumers is what "hospitality" is all about.

You don't need a degree in hospitality management to know how to please customers.

Laughable - like most of your comments.

3 hours ago, Leaver said:

I think you will find I am more critical of of Thai landlords than individual bar owners.

And you have no experience of being a landlord either, but see fit to put your skewed views across as fact when they're just drivel of the tallest order.

Leaver · May 16, 2022

1 minute ago, treetops said:

Laughable - like most of your comments.

At least I comment, rather than just make personal attacks which offer no content.

2 minutes ago, treetops said:

And you have no experience of being a landlord either, but see fit to put your skewed views across as fact when they're just drivel of the tallest order.

No foreigner here is a proper landlord.

if you can't see the correlation between ridiculously high and ever rising rents having an effect on small businesses, and tourism here, then there is no hope for you.

There's a reason The LK Metro / Soi Baukhao area has grown in popularity, but I guess such a discussion would be beyond you.

treetops · May 16, 2022

1 minute ago, Leaver said:

At least I comment, rather than just make personal attacks which offer no content.

No foreigner here is a proper landlord.

if you can't see the correlation between ridiculously high and ever rising rents having an effect on small businesses, and tourism here, then there is no hope for you.

There's a reason The LK Metro / Soi Baukhao area has grown in popularity, but I guess such a discussion would be beyond you.

I too will comment when comment is required, but if nonsense needs responding to (like yours often does) I see nothing wrong with doing that too.

I can see as well as anyone else on the outside what the cost of doing business here is, but without the detailed knowledge of the owners (many of whom are Indian, Chinese, Caucasian etc despite your claim about foreigners not being "proper landlords") I wouldn't try to tell them how to run their business.

Maybe you could try that approach sometime instead of blowing off with your usual garbage?

Leaver · May 16, 2022

44 minutes ago, treetops said:

I too will comment when comment is required, but if nonsense needs responding to (like yours often does) I see nothing wrong with doing that too.

I can see as well as anyone else on the outside what the cost of doing business here is, but without the detailed knowledge of the owners (many of whom are Indian, Chinese, Caucasian etc despite your claim about foreigners not being "proper landlords") I wouldn't try to tell them how to run their business.

Maybe you could try that approach sometime instead of blowing off with your usual garbage?

I've never said how they should run their business.

Many of these business owners are in a system that is basically designed to see their leases fail, so the Thai landlord cashes in. Do you disagree with this?

Rents go up, which is passed onto the consumer, in the price of goods and services. Eg. F & B. Do you disagree with this?

If / when the rents go up to a point where sex tourists either can not afford to pay, or refuse to pay, and head to Cambodia or Vietnam or The Philippines instead, what's your advice to bar owners here? What could he have done about it? Or, do you think that will never happen, despite it already happening pre covid.

Basically, it's the Thai landlords that are outpricing Pattaya in the region. Then, there are other factors like poor exchange rates, expensive air travel etc.

None of the above is the fault of a bar owner. They are in a vicious cycle of their expenses go up, so they pass it onto the consumer, which knocks more customers out of the game. The girls still want 1000 baht, but prices around the meeting have increased. Many will simply look to another way of meeting. Do you disagree? Can you blame them?

How does a bar owner tell their Thai landlord that the internet has caused less customers to buy lady drinks and pay bar fines, which are traditional earners for bars here, so he should lower the rent? The Thai landlord also banked on his tenant making money in the sex trade, so he could pay his rent.

In my opinion, the whole lady drink / bar fine business model will be digitally disrupted. All that remains to be seen is by how much. As I said, as prices keep rising, more and more guys will go the freelancer route, which causes more price rises, and on it goes. Do you disagree with this?

Edited May 16, 2022 by Leaver

Yellowtail · May 17, 2022

11 hours ago, Leaver said:

I've never said how they should run their business.

Many of these business owners are in a system that is basically designed to see their leases fail, so the Thai landlord cashes in. Do you disagree with this?

Yes, I disagree with this. Do you have any data that supports it?

11 hours ago, Leaver said:

Rents go up, which is passed onto the consumer, in the price of goods and services. Eg. F & B. Do you disagree with this?

No, I agree that when rent goes up, that the cost has to be passed on to the consumer.

That said, as property value goes up, rent has to go us well. Do you disagree?

11 hours ago, Leaver said:

If / when the rents go up to a point where sex tourists either can not afford to pay, or refuse to pay, and head to Cambodia or Vietnam or The Philippines instead, what's your advice to bar owners here? What could he have done about it? Or, do you think that will never happen, despite it already happening pre covid.

I think the sex-tourism in Thailand is dying, and being replaced with more family oriented tourism.

11 hours ago, Leaver said:

Basically, it's the Thai landlords that are outpricing Pattaya in the region. Then, there are other factors like poor exchange rates, expensive air travel etc.

Again, as property values go up, rent goes up, that's just the way it is. Plenty of businesses make it. Businesses run by retired western civil-servants that want to sample the product daily? Not so much.

Poor exchange rates for who, and compared to when?

11 hours ago, Leaver said:

None of the above is the fault of a bar owner. They are in a vicious cycle of their expenses go up, so they pass it onto the consumer, which knocks more customers out of the game. The girls still want 1000 baht, but prices around the meeting have increased. Many will simply look to another way of meeting. Do you disagree? Can you blame them?

Yes, I disagree that none of the above is the fault of the business owner.

Nothing new about girls working on the side, and no, I don't blame them. They need to maximize their income while they can. Hopefully they're able to save enough for a nice condo and a kiosk at Festival to retire with.

11 hours ago, Leaver said:

How does a bar owner tell their Thai landlord that the internet has caused less customers to buy lady drinks and pay bar fines, which are traditional earners for bars here, so he should lower the rent? The Thai landlord also banked on his tenant making money in the sex trade, so he could pay his rent.

The bar owner quits paying the rent and goes out of business. As long as the landlord can collect the the rent, why should they reduce it?

11 hours ago, Leaver said:

In my opinion, the whole lady drink / bar fine business model will be digitally disrupted. All that remains to be seen is by how much. As I said, as prices keep rising, more and more guys will go the freelancer route, which causes more price rises, and on it goes. Do you disagree with this?

While I agree that that online bookings cut into "...the the whole lady drink / bar fine business model...", the lady drink / bar fine is a different experience, in much the same way that buying a shirt online is different from buying a shirt at a nice department store. Online sales absolutely cut into the sales of department stores, but department stores are still around, and more and more getting into online sales, which I imagine will be part of the the better managed gash-joints going forward.

Do you disagree?

PJ71 · May 17, 2022

13 hours ago, Leaver said:

I've never said how they should run their business.

Many of these business owners are in a system that is basically designed to see their leases fail, so the Thai landlord cashes in. Do you disagree with this?

Rents go up, which is passed onto the consumer, in the price of goods and services. Eg. F & B. Do you disagree with this?

If / when the rents go up to a point where sex tourists either can not afford to pay, or refuse to pay, and head to Cambodia or Vietnam or The Philippines instead, what's your advice to bar owners here? What could he have done about it? Or, do you think that will never happen, despite it already happening pre covid.

Basically, it's the Thai landlords that are outpricing Pattaya in the region. Then, there are other factors like poor exchange rates, expensive air travel etc.

None of the above is the fault of a bar owner. They are in a vicious cycle of their expenses go up, so they pass it onto the consumer, which knocks more customers out of the game. The girls still want 1000 baht, but prices around the meeting have increased. Many will simply look to another way of meeting. Do you disagree? Can you blame them?

How does a bar owner tell their Thai landlord that the internet has caused less customers to buy lady drinks and pay bar fines, which are traditional earners for bars here, so he should lower the rent? The Thai landlord also banked on his tenant making money in the sex trade, so he could pay his rent.

In my opinion, the whole lady drink / bar fine business model will be digitally disrupted. All that remains to be seen is by how much. As I said, as prices keep rising, more and more guys will go the freelancer route, which causes more price rises, and on it goes. Do you disagree with this?

I disagree with most of what you say, people have been coming to Pattaya to get their "Nat King Cole' for 40-50 years plus, this will never change.

Does n't matter what you waffle on about, this will not change.

Do you get that - people will continue to visit Pattaya for all the same reasons as before.

If you know ( claimed ) so much about how it all works i'm sure you'd have been very rich in Pattaya by now, however..........

morrobay · May 17, 2022

On 5/16/2022 at 11:42 AM, scubascuba3 said:

Looks like Walking st agogos are doing ST3,000 LT5,000 plus bar fines up.

https://youtu.be/3YXpx7QkQpw

And then put up with this?

scubascuba3 · May 17, 2022

1 hour ago, morrobay said:

And then put up with this?

Yes Walking St is still a mess, they've put in electric box things all along the street, looks like too many to me

aussiexpat · May 17, 2022

22 hours ago, Leaver said:

Wrong.

As far as hospitality experience, I am a consumer, and catering to consumers is what "hospitality" is all about.

You don't need a degree in hospitality management to know how to please customers.

That's hilarious, so using the same logic:

(1) I've watched thousands of movies so would be a great movie Director

(2) I've watched F1 for over 20 years so should become the next Ferrari Team Principle

(3), etc, etc, etc

Meanwhile all the bars outside of GoGo's and Soi 6 appear to be doing very well (soi 7 & 8 were dead years before covid). Not all of us come to Pattaya for bar fines like you think

Edited May 17, 2022 by aussiexpat

champers · May 17, 2022

2 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Yes Walking St is still a mess, they've put in electric box things all along the street, looks like too many to me

It is back to being an actual walking street at night time, so no need for anyone to walk on the pavements.

TaaSaparot · May 17, 2022

11 hours ago, champers said:

It is back to being an actual walking street at night time, so no need for anyone to walk on the pavements.

What about daytime?

champers · May 17, 2022

1 hour ago, TaaSaparot said:

What about daytime?

Pretend it's Soi Buakhao.

jacko45k · May 17, 2022

17 hours ago, morrobay said:

And then put up with this?

Ah, the cynically named 'Walking Street', where it is nigh on impossible!

BritManToo · May 18, 2022

22 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

I think the sex-tourism in Thailand is dying, and being replaced with more family oriented tourism.

You have to be insane to bring your kids to Thailand.

Too many dangers!

Edited May 18, 2022 by BritManToo

BritManToo · May 18, 2022

22 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

No, I agree that when rent goes up, that the cost has to be passed on to the consumer.

When rent goes up the obvious answer is to move the bars to a cheaper rent area.

LK Metro being a prime example of this happening.

morrobay · May 18, 2022

15 hours ago, champers said:

It is back to being an actual walking street at night time, so no need for anyone to walk on the pavements.

Its like this all the way down. I guess they couldn't get around to the sidewalks in the last two years. Unbelievable. Well I'll leave them to their problems because they got them

Yellowtail · May 18, 2022

55 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

You have to be insane to bring your kids to Thailand.

Too many dangers!

What dangers? I have a kid here and he's doing fine. I would be insane to put in a California school.

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