Biden says UK border with Ireland must be open

[polpott]

32 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

  The UK/ EU negotiations  end on Decenter 31 st , Biden is due to become POTUS on 20 January .

  His point of view is currently irrelevant and the UK will talk to him once he officially gets the job .

  We will deal with the EU first and then the USA , once they get settled 

Which is exactly the point. Biden's administration will be negotiating the trade deals with the UK. Only fair that he gives Johnson a heads up on his stance before Johnson does anything rash.

 

Not that the UK will do anything before January 20th. With Cummings at the helm they were a government with bad ideas. Now that he's gone they are a government with no ideas.

 

 

Edited November 26, 2020 by polpott

[CorpusChristie]

6 minutes ago, polpott said:

Which is exactly the point. Biden's administration will be negotiating the trade deals with the UK. Only fair that he gives Johnson a heads up on his stance before Johnson does anything rash.

 

 

 

  Biden commented out his preference for the outcome of the talks and the future agreement .

  There are two sides in the discussion : The UK and the EU.

If the border goes up, both sides will take responsibility for that , for not coming to an agreement .

  Intersting that anti conservatives are trying to turn this into a Biden versus the UK kind of thing .

   The UK doesnt want the border to go back up , and if it does go back up, it will be because of the E.U's insistence 

[placeholder]

18 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

  Biden commented out his preference for the outcome of the talks and the future agreement .

  There are two sides in the discussion : The UK and the EU.

If the border goes up, both sides will take responsibility for that , for not coming to an agreement .

  Intersting that anti conservatives are trying to turn this into a Biden versus the UK kind of thing .

   The UK doesnt want the border to go back up , and if it does go back up, it will be because of the E.U's insistence 

Even the UK admitted it was reneging on its treaty agreement that it had recently signed with the EU. 

[placeholder]

58 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

  The UK/ EU negotiations  end on Decenter 31 st , Biden is due to become POTUS on 20 January .

  His point of view is currently irrelevant and the UK will talk to him once he officially gets the job .

  We will deal with the EU first and then the USA , once they get settled 

Less than 2 months is definitely way too far in the future to be concerned about.

[CorpusChristie]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

Even the UK admitted it was reneging on its treaty agreement that it had recently signed with the EU. 

 

  Post a link 

[polpott]

20 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

The UK doesnt want the border to go back up , and if it does go back up, it will be because of the E.U's insistence 

Its unavoidable if there isn't an EU- UK trade agreement and the special arrangements for goods crossing the border aren't made. They were made with Johnson's "oven ready" deal, which he has since reneged on.

[placeholder]

Just now, CorpusChristie said:

 

  Post a link 

Seriously you weren't aware of this? Where do you get your news from?

Government admits new Brexit bill 'will break international law'

The government has admitted that its plan to reinterpret the special Brexit arrangements for Northern Ireland will break international law.

The Northern Ireland secretary, Brandon Lewis, astonished backbenchers when he told the House of Commons: “Yes, this does break international law in a very specific and limited way. We’re taking the powers to disapply the EU law concept of direct effect … in a certain very tightly defined circumstance.”

Government admits new Brexit bill 'will break international law' | Politics | The Guardian

[CorpusChristie]

5 minutes ago, polpott said:

Its unavoidable if there isn't an EU- UK trade agreement and the special arrangements for goods crossing the border aren't made. They were made with Johnson's "oven ready" deal, which he has since reneged on.

 

  Let the E.U build and fund it then , as its their rules that is forcing it to go up 

[polpott]

Just now, CorpusChristie said:

 

  Let the E.U build and fund it then , as its their rules that is forcing it to go up 

Build and fund what?

[CorpusChristie]

4 minutes ago, polpott said:

Build and fund what?

 

  We are discussing the border between Ireland and Northern Ireland and the possibility of a border being out in place .

  

[placeholder]

7 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

  Let the E.U build and fund it then , as its their rules that is forcing it to go up 

No, it's the UK govt reneging on its treaty obligations that is at fault.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

  The UK/ EU negotiations  end on Decenter 31 st , Biden is due to become POTUS on 20 January .

  His point of view is currently irrelevant and the UK will talk to him once he officially gets the job .

  We will deal with the EU first and then the USA , once they get settled 

Trade deals are enacted by Congress, in which the Democrats hold the majority, hence Pelosi is the ‘Leader of the House’ and she has already made her views plain, the align with Biden’s statement.

 

 

[CorpusChristie]

9 minutes ago, placeholder said:

No, it's the UK govt reneging on its treaty obligations that is at fault.

 

   What were the treaty obligations that the UK reneged on ?

[polpott]

11 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

  We are discussing the border between Ireland and Northern Ireland and the possibility of a border being out in place .

  

So what exactly do you think they are going to build? It will be a normal border between a non EU and EU country. Same as England and France. Customs and Excise checkpoints. They will be on both sides of the border, British checkpoints on the North side, Irish checkpoints on the South side.

 

The only difference would be that the free movement of people would still be in place, so no need for passports.

[CorpusChristie]

3 minutes ago, polpott said:

So what exactly do you think they are going to build? It will be a normal border between a non EU and EU country. Same as England and France. Customs and Excise checkpoints. They will be on both sides of the border, British checkpoints on the North side, Irish checkpoints on the South side.

 

The only difference would be that the free movement of people would still be in place, so no need for passports.

 

  Who wants these check-points put in place ?

 

 

[polpott]

Just now, CorpusChristie said:

 

  Who wants these check-points put in place ?

 

 

I've just explained to you. They are unavoidable.

[Chomper Higgot]

Incidentally, the weak position the UK has put itself in where the US President elect and the Leader of the House of Congress are dictating to the UK that there will be no hard border in Ireland is the same weak position that will ensure Washington dictates the terms of any UK/US trade agreement.

 

You’ll find early discussion on this very fact filed under ‘Project Fear’.

[CorpusChristie]

2 minutes ago, polpott said:

I've just explained to you. They are unavoidable.

 

  It would be avoidable , simply by not putting them there .

Why might they go up ?

E.U law ? 

[CorpusChristie]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Incidentally, the weak position the UK has put itself in where the US President elect and the Leader of the House of Congress are dictating to the UK that there will be no hard border in Ireland is the same weak position that will ensure Washington dictates the terms of any UK/US trade agreement.

 

You’ll find early discussion on this very fact filed under ‘Project Fear’.

 

   I have accepted President Biden and will go with it , when will you accept Brexit and go with it ?

[polpott]

1 minute ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

   I have accepted President Biden and will go with it , when will you accept Brexit and go with it ?

You had no choice. He's not your president. 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

   I have accepted President Biden and will go with it , when will you accept Brexit and go with it ?

I have accepted Brexit, and it’s going just as I predicted.

 

 

[polpott]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I have accepted Brexit, and it’s going just as I predicted.

 

 

And as "project fear" predicted.

[dunroaming]

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I have accepted Brexit, and it’s going just as I predicted.

 

 

Maybe we should try (again) for some clarity to help the "Brexiteers" on TV.  You will find those who you call "remainers" have accepted, some time ago that Brexit cannot be stopped, mainly because (in case you haven't noticed) it has already happened.  You may remember running around high fiving your chums at the time.  We are now in the transition period and unless there is another extension, that period ends at the end of the year.

 

You will now find it is about speculation about what will happen then and what deals will have been agreed.  The so called "remainers"  tend to point out the chaos and absolute mess that Johnson and his team are making of this.

[CG1 Blue]

1 hour ago, polpott said:

Its unavoidable if there isn't an EU- UK trade agreement and the special arrangements for goods crossing the border aren't made. They were made with Johnson's "oven ready" deal, which he has since reneged on.

How is it unavoidable? The EU have had 4-5 years to solve the border issue but have done diddly squat. They even prevented the UK from holding discussions with Irish border officials - probably to stop a solution being found. The EU need the Irish border to remain as their most potent PR weapon. 

 

Do you really believe that in these times of incredible technological sophistication, a solution that protects the single market without a manned border can't be worked out? 

 

I don't know if Biden is in on this scam, or he just hasn't had time to think it through yet. Maybe the penny will drop soon...

Edited November 26, 2020 by CG1 Blue

[Chomper Higgot]

9 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

How is it unavoidable? The EU have had 4-5 years to solve the border issue but have done diddly squat. They even prevented the UK from holding discussions with Irish border officials - probably to stop a solution being found. The EU need the Irish border to remain as their most potent PR weapon. 

 

Do you really believe that in these times of incredible technological sophistication, a solution that protects the single market without a manned border can't be worked out? 

 

I don't know if Biden is in on this scam, or he just hasn't had time to think it through yet. Maybe the penny will drop soon...

It’s not the EU’s problem, and it’s not a problem created by the EU.

 

Oh, and it’s not a scam.

[7by7]

9 hours ago, cmarshall said:

 

The demographic changes already underway in NI make union with the Republic inevitable.  The old generation of unionists is dying off and being replaced by young people who want the higher standard of living in the Republic.

 You are probably right, it will come eventually.

 

But to force Northern Ireland to join the Republic against the will of the current majority just to make Boris Johnson's life easier is hardly democratic!

[7by7]

43 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

<snip>

How is it unavoidable? The EU have had 4-5 years to solve the border issue but have done diddly squat.

They 'allowed' Johnson and Varadkar to negotiate and come up with the Northern Ireland Protocol.

 

Not the EU's fault, nor Varadker's, that Johnson has since decided to allow his government to renege upon that protocol and the international treaty it is part of.

 

As for the need for a border with customs checks; name us one country anywhere with a land border with a country not in the same FTA which does not have such without some form of other arrangement.

Edited November 26, 2020 by 7by7
typos

[CG1 Blue]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It’s not the EU’s problem, and it’s not a problem created by the EU.

Who's problem is it then?  The UK do not need to put up a border, and will not, so it's not the UK's problem. 

[CG1 Blue]

30 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

As for the need for a border with customs checks; name us one country anywhere with a land border with a country not in the same FTA which does not have such without some form of other arrangement.

So you think it has to have been done before for it to be possible? People said it will take years (or it's impossible) to develop a Covid vaccine, and after less than a year we have 3 vaccines. Up until 1969 most people probably thought man would never walk on the moon. 

[7by7]

3 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Who's problem is it then?  The UK do not need to put up a border, and will not, so it's not the UK's problem. 

 If the UK government does not want a customs border, what was the point of the Northern Irish Protocol?

 

It was to prevent a hard border on the island of Ireland by effectively putting it down the Irish sea.

 

It is Johnson's desire to now renege on his agreement which has caused this current furore.