Brand name 18650 batteries?

[OneMoreFarang]

I like to buy a couple of quality Lithium 18650 batteries. I.e. original from Panasonic.

 

When I search in Lazada they have lots of batteries which they claim are Panasonic but looking at the pictures they are from LiitoKala.

panasonic lithium 18650 - Buy panasonic lithium 18650 at Best Price in Thailand | www.lazada.co.th

Does anybody of you know if LiitoKala is maybe a company which produces these batteries for Panasonic in Thailand?

Or is Panasonic just written there to motivate people to buy them or what's going on?

 

I want quality batteries because bad Lithium batteries can cause major problems, including fire.

I don't mind if I buy them online or in a shop in Bangkok. Any suggestions?

 

[OneMoreFarang]

I found already a shop: ES - Electronics Source. It's well known and I bought many parts in that shop offline and online.

 

Original Panasonic 18650 on the ES website: 381 THB per battery.

บริษัท อีเลคทรอนิคส์ ซอร์ซ จำกัด (es.co.th)

 

So called Panasonic on Lazada starts with less than 100 THB per cell. I know what I won't buy...

ราคาจัดโปร ถ่านชาร์จ 18650 panasonic หัวแบน แท้ 3400mah รับประกันจาก Liitokala 2ก้อน ถ่านโซล่าเซล ถ่านปัตตาเลี่ยน แบตสว่านไฟฟ้า ถ่า | Lazada.co.th

 

 

[maxpower]

9 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

When I search in Lazada they have lots of batteries which they claim are Panasonic but looking at the pictures they are from LiitoKala.

 

http://www.liitokala.com.cn/productlist.asp?sortid=40

[OneMoreFarang]

39 minutes ago, maxpower said:

 

http://www.liitokala.com.cn/productlist.asp?sortid=40

Thanks, I found that already.

But what does it tell us?

What is the connection between LiitoKala and Panasonic - if there is any?

Or is it just that LiitoKala produces something that they claim is similar to the Panasonic 18650?

[maxpower]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Thanks, I found that already.

But what does it tell us?

What is the connection between LiitoKala and Panasonic - if there is any?

Or is it just that LiitoKala produces something that they claim is similar to the Panasonic 18650?

 

Litokala manufacture the cells with approval from Panasonic to their specification. Example NCR18650B  https://www.batteryspace.com/prod-specs/NCR18650B.pdf

There are genuine sellers on Lazada. Purchase a single cell and perform weight and capacity test using the data sheet. 
 

[Jack Mountain]

11 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I found already a shop: ES - Electronics Source. It's well known and I bought many parts in that shop offline and online.

 

Original Panasonic 18650 on the ES website: 381 THB per battery.

บริษัท อีเลคทรอนิคส์ ซอร์ซ จำกัด (es.co.th)

 

So called Panasonic on Lazada starts with less than 100 THB per cell. I know what I won't buy...

ราคาจัดโปร ถ่านชาร์จ 18650 panasonic หัวแบน แท้ 3400mah รับประกันจาก Liitokala 2ก้อน ถ่านโซล่าเซล ถ่านปัตตาเลี่ยน แบตสว่านไฟฟ้า ถ่า | Lazada.co.th

 

 

That promised  3350 mAh is that correct? Did you checked it?

[OneMoreFarang]

18 minutes ago, Jack Mountain said:

That promised  3350 mAh is that correct? Did you checked it?

Until now I didn't buy any and I didn't check.

And in my case I don't need much current and for that reason I am not too concerned if the Ah is less.

My main concern is quality with Lithium batteries. 

Here is an interesting video about the batteries and danger and protection:

 

[Jack Mountain]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Until now I didn't buy any and I didn't check.

And in my case I don't need much current and for that reason I am not too concerned if the Ah is less.

My main concern is quality with Lithium batteries. 

Here is an interesting video about the batteries and danger and protection:

 

Thx, I checked some cheaper ones, there were all only a fraction of the promised capacity. Besides that, it seems to be normal that the energy you can get out is only 65% of the energy you have to put in when started from an empty state.

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, Jack Mountain said:

Thx, I checked some cheaper ones, there were all only a fraction of the promised capacity. Besides that, it seems to be normal that the energy you can get out is only 65% of the energy you have to put in when started from an empty state.

That is also an interesting video about Batteries.

If you don't know Bruce, he is a top expert.

 

 

[maxpower]

4 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Here is an interesting video about the batteries and danger and protection:

 

The video mostly addresses the importance of battery protection not quality.

 

Why and how battery protection is applied should be fully understood by anyone experimenting with these cells.

 

It is also important to know if a product requires built in cell protection when replacing batteries. Flash lights for example might not be capable of handling unprotected cells.

 

The LitoKala Panasonic cells mentioned in this topic are available with or without built in protection. Unprotected cells are available for those who wish to include their own battery management and protection system.

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

7 minutes ago, maxpower said:

 

The video mostly addresses the importance of battery protection not quality.

 

Why and how battery protection is applied should be fully understood by anyone experimenting with these cells.

 

It is also important to know if a product requires built in cell protection when replacing batteries. Flash lights for example might not be capable of handling unprotected cells.

 

The LitoKala Panasonic cells mentioned in this topic are available with or without built in protection. Unprotected cells are available for those who wish to include their own battery management and protection system.

I am pretty sure (almost?) all devices will also work with unprotected cells. And if the device user is careful then that should mostly be ok. But if a user leaves i.e. a flash light on and the battery is completely drained and then he tries to charge it again then there is danger. And overcharging is a danger - and everybody who uses Lithium batteries should be aware of that.

[maxpower]

 

6 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I am pretty sure (almost?) all devices will also work with unprotected cells.

 

And how would a device designed to use protected cells handle current limit and over discharge when fitted with unprotected cell?

[OneMoreFarang]

13 minutes ago, maxpower said:

And how would a device designed to use protected cells handle current limit and over discharge when fitted with unprotected cell?

I am guessing here.

 

a) The device will have it's own protection build in. I.e. it won't discharge the battery to below 2.5V. And it might have a over current protection build in so that in case of a short-circuit the battery would not be shorted.

b) A (especially cheap) device might not have any protection at all. I.e. a flashlight. Put the battery or batteries in and it will work just find without any protection (in the device or in the cell). But leave the flash-light on forever or if there is maybe a short (maybe the flashlight falls down) then there is a considerable fire risk. 

[maxpower]

18 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

A (especially cheap) device might not have any protection at all.

 

Not always cheap. Devices that rely on protection at the cell do not have to worry about adding protection circuits. If a device built in protection circuit fails the device is often a throw away.

 

If a cells built in protection fails a simple cell replacement fixes the issue.

 

Our parent company here in Shenzhen manufactures a production tool that requires protected 18650 cell only. I believe this route was chosen to limit built in circuits.

[OneMoreFarang]

3 hours ago, maxpower said:

Our parent company here in Shenzhen manufactures a production tool that requires protected 18650 cell only. I believe this route was chosen to limit built in circuits.

Do you know if that tool would "sense" if unprotected 18650 cells are inserted? 

I guess such a sensing circuit would probably be more expensive then a protection circuit.

And the physical size of the cells with and without protection seems to be almost the same - maybe 3mm difference in length.

[Jack Mountain]

I had batteries of that type and I made the mistake to put them in reversed way. Wow! Got really hot and the powerbank device that it feeded was gone. They did not explode though but I could throw them away ... with gloves on.

[KhunHeineken]

Out of interest, what application are you using these batteries for?  

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

Out of interest, what application are you using these batteries for?  

In this case I think about using them with a high quality headphone amplifier.

 

Until now I never used 18650 batteries. But I have experience with Lithium batteries and chargers for RC hobby equipment.

[KhunHeineken]

On 12/11/2020 at 11:59 AM, OneMoreFarang said:

In this case I think about using them with a high quality headphone amplifier.

 

Until now I never used 18650 batteries. But I have experience with Lithium batteries and chargers for RC hobby equipment.

The portable AMP's and DAC's that I have seen are powered by USB off the device, or with a power adapter off a power point.  I've never tried one.  Would you recommend them?    

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

The portable AMP's and DAC's that I have seen are powered by USB off the device, or with a power adapter off a power point.  I've never tried one.  Would you recommend them?    

I just ordered this one:

HP-22 – Neurochrome

 

It will take some time before I will have all the parts and before it will work. Then I can tell you how I like it and if I would recommend it.

I have already a very good headphone and electronic skills to put that thing together.

[OneMoreFarang]

I just found this video. He has a funny accent but he is a well known electronic specialist.

 

 

[Jack Mountain]

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I just found this video. He has a funny accent but he is a well known electronic specialist.

 

 

So I have fakes then but awfully cheap. 82 Baht/4pcs => measured 625 mAH discharge per battery.

 

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/di-shop-4-ultrafire-9900-mah-18650-rechargeable-lithium-li-ion-battery-9900-mah-led-floodlight-led-spotlight-i150055931-s174763984.html?spm=a2o4m.searchlist.list.9.33294abd8l5Ytw&search=1

 

Edited December 21, 2020 by Jack Mountain

[OneMoreFarang]

7 hours ago, Jack Mountain said:

So I have fakes then but awfully cheap. 82 Baht/4pcs => measured 625 mAH discharge per battery.

 

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/di-shop-4-ultrafire-9900-mah-18650-rechargeable-lithium-li-ion-battery-9900-mah-led-floodlight-led-spotlight-i150055931-s174763984.html?spm=a2o4m.searchlist.list.9.33294abd8l5Ytw&search=1

 

I am hesitant to press that LIKE button.

Interesting information. 

[Crossy]

Not 18650, these are Tipsun 32700 x 6000mAh, tested as 6000mAh 

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/i919830708-s5785878869.html

So this seller gets my vote.

 

I'm going to try his McNair 32650 x 5000mAh as they're half the price. I shall post the results.

 

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

Not 18650, these are Tipsun 32700 x 6000mAh, tested as 6000mAh 

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/i919830708-s5785878869.html

So this seller gets my vote.

 

I'm going to try his McNair 32650 x 5000mAh as they're half the price. I shall post the results.

 

I just checked, the same seller does not sell 18650.

I don't need much power so I will stay with the 18650. Now after I saw the video I know what to look for: weight.

Maybe next time I go to BanMoo I will take a small scale with me.

 

Yes, please post your results.

[maxpower]

On 12/10/2020 at 3:35 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

Do you know if that tool would "sense" if unprotected 18650 cells are inserted? 

 

No the tool would not detect unprotected cells as they simply present their voltage at the terminals the same as a protected cell. The electronics would error if reference voltage was too low and disable the tool.

Kaxin Store below was selling genuine Liito cells up to October this year which was the last time a friend in Bangkok made his last order. Protected version has white insulated cap.

 

https://www.lazada.co.th/shop/kaixin-store/?spm=a2o4m.pdp.seller.1.56b54cacxLlxOW&itemId=1104010421&channelSource=pdp

If you want a good single 18650 charging and protection circuit for a 5V supply arrangement, the protected version of TP4056 boards are excellent and cheap. Just hook up a battery your device load and the board will protect and take care of charging properly. 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

11 hours ago, maxpower said:

 

No the tool would not detect unprotected cells as they simply present their voltage at the terminals the same as a protected cell. The electronics would error if reference voltage was too low and disable the tool.

Kaxin Store below was selling genuine Liito cells up to October this year which was the last time a friend in Bangkok made his last order. Protected version has white insulated cap.

 

https://www.lazada.co.th/shop/kaixin-store/?spm=a2o4m.pdp.seller.1.56b54cacxLlxOW&itemId=1104010421&channelSource=pdp

If you want a good single 18650 charging and protection circuit for a 5V supply arrangement, the protected version of TP4056 boards are excellent and cheap. Just hook up a battery your device load and the board will protect and take care of charging properly. 

 

Thanks! The 18650 in that shop look good.

I bought already these little 4A protection boards (I don't need much current). And I have already a good charger.

 

3S 4A 12.6V BMS Protection PCB Board with Automatic Recovery for 18650,32650 Lithium Li-ion LiPo Battery ลิเธียม วงจรป้องแบตเตอรี่ | Lazada.co.th

 

[KhunHeineken]

On 12/20/2020 at 2:28 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

I just ordered this one:

HP-22 – Neurochrome

 

It will take some time before I will have all the parts and before it will work. Then I can tell you how I like it and if I would recommend it.

I have already a very good headphone and electronic skills to put that thing together.

 

What was the results of this project?

[OneMoreFarang]

52 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

What was the results of this project?

The amp works and it sounds great - even on high volume.

I decided to use 6 x 16340 batteries because they are smaller and still powerful enough.

I still have to put everything in a little case.

I use an external lithium battery charger which I have already from my RC hobby.

The connections in the picture below are still temporary.

[KhunHeineken]

On 2/10/2021 at 2:58 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

The amp works and it sounds great - even on high volume.

I decided to use 6 x 16340 batteries because they are smaller and still powerful enough.

I still have to put everything in a little case.

I use an external lithium battery charger which I have already from my RC hobby.

The connections in the picture below are still temporary.

 

Looks good.  Thanks for sharing.

 

Are you at all concerned that you could be arrested on suspicion of bomb making?  ????