10 minutes ago, vogie said:

No deal is acceptable to the voters that voted for it. Remember, two choices.

Who voted for no deal? That was not on the ballot paper and was not what Johnson and vote leave promised.

8 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Good point!

And what are the intentions, as engrained in the oven ready deal?

 

The suspicion is that the UK will erode all those protections over things like food standards and workers protection in order to be more "competitive" than the EU. Now Brexiteers either do not care about things like that or they think that its actually a good idea for the UK to revert back to 19th centaury conditions.

I suspect the latter if I'm honest. Just so long as they remain convinced it wont actually affect them.

But sending kids up chimneys? All in a days work for a Brexit fundamentalist. Just so long as they occasionally get to sniff the hand of their betters like Reese Mogg.  

9 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

The suspicion is that the UK will erode all those protections over things like food standards and workers protection in order to be more "competitive" than the EU. Now Brexiteers either do not care about things like that or they think that its actually a good idea for the UK to revert back to 19th centaury conditions.

I suspect the latter if I'm honest. Just so long as they remain convinced it wont actually affect them.

But sending kids up chimneys? All in a days work for a Brexit fundamentalist. Just so long as they occasionally get to sniff the hand of their betters like Reese Mogg.  

And guess what we can do if the government go too far in removing protections - we can vote them out!

Basically it will be the British people deciding what's good for Britain, rather than pen pushers in Brussels making those 'one size fits all' decisions. 

8 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

And guess what we can do if the government go too far in removing protections - we can vote them out!

Basically it will be the British people deciding what's good for Britain, rather than pen pushers in Brussels making those 'one size fits all' decisions. 

 

But you wont vote them out will you?

The last three conservative governments have been the worst in history. Each one consecutively worse than the last.

But you guys keep voting for them.

 

32 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

The suspicion is that the UK will erode all those protections over things like food standards and workers protection in order to be more "competitive" than the EU. Now Brexiteers either do not care about things like that or they think that its actually a good idea for the UK to revert back to 19th centaury conditions.

I suspect the latter if I'm honest. Just so long as they remain convinced it wont actually affect them.

But sending kids up chimneys? All in a days work for a Brexit fundamentalist. Just so long as they occasionally get to sniff the hand of their betters like Reese Mogg.  

I fear that is the sad reality about Brexit.

Back to the 19th century, with it's nationalism and respect for the hiso (not unlike Thailand AD 2020).

I would rather go back to the 18th century, and William GODWIN, see, I do not hold a grudge against the British.....

1 hour ago, Tofer said:

 

Sorry, not this time around. I'm not going to join your remainer pity party diatribe again, for another 100 odd pages of pointless defeatist rhetoric.

Or in other words: I don't have a consistent argument.

Barnier wants 'punishment clause' hitting UK with huge sanctions if Boris blocks EU boats

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1372360/Brexit-news-UK-EU-Michel-Barnier-fishing-trade-deal-update-latest

By JOE BARNES, BRUSSELS CORRESPONDENT
PUBLISHED: 14:00, Mon, Dec 14, 2020 | UPDATED: 14:02, Mon, Dec 14, 2020

MICHEL Barnier has introduced a punishment clause that could see Britain slapped with trade sanctions if European fishermen are locked out of UK coastal waters in the future, EU sources have revealed

The Brussels diplomat set out plans to restrict access to the EU’s market for British firms if European fishermen are largely locked out of British waters in the future. In a series of private Brussels briefings, the Frenchman accused Downing Street of “backtracking” on its own proposals for a three-year transition period for fishing rights. Under the original plan, the extremely generous catch shares European trawlermen enjoy would be gradually phased down.ces have revealed.

 

Mr Barnier told MEPs that Britain would have to face “consequences” for any future decisions to close its fishing grounds to European vessels. The Frenchman raised the prospect of economic sanctions – such as trade tariffs – being introduced to counter any such moves by Downing Street.

 

1 hour ago, vogie said:

No deal is acceptable to the voters that voted for it. Remember, two choices.

I thought the voters voted fir an over ready deal.

29 minutes ago, bannork said:

I thought the voters voted fir an over ready deal.

 

2 hours ago, david555 said:

Barnier wants 'punishment clause' hitting UK with huge sanctions if Boris blocks EU boats

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1372360/Brexit-news-UK-EU-Michel-Barnier-fishing-trade-deal-update-latest

By JOE BARNES, BRUSSELS CORRESPONDENT
PUBLISHED: 14:00, Mon, Dec 14, 2020 | UPDATED: 14:02, Mon, Dec 14, 2020

MICHEL Barnier has introduced a punishment clause that could see Britain slapped with trade sanctions if European fishermen are locked out of UK coastal waters in the future, EU sources have reveal

You know the Express is not the most truthful source imaginable, it's both ultra-conservative and a tabloid

 

 

 

now evidently you know its hard to trust the word (or even the signature) of Britain nowadays.. So yes, sadly we must envision that the current Johnson Government signs a deal only to renege a few months after.

 

 

of course the best scenario is "the UK does not lie", this is what we all wish

 

 

 

AFAIK there were no "punishment clauses" in deals passed with Britain before, because the word of Britain used to be truthful. 

3 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

You know the Express is not the most truthful source imaginable, it's both ultra-conservative and a tabloid

 

 

 

now evidently you know its hard to trust the word (or even the signature) of Britain nowadays.. So yes, sadly we must envision that the current Johnson Government signs a deal only to renege a few months after.

 

 

of course the best scenario is "the UK does not lie", this is what we all wish

 

 

 

AFAIK there were no "punishment clauses" in deals passed with Britain before, because the word of Britain used to be truthful. 

I just brought it as i know it is on right wing hand ...but also as i think many things go on behind the scene .......including the whole proces of ratification in case a deal on both sides  would be agreed , they are in strange way messing up with  ....finding bypassings way's....and i mean really on both sides adapting their legal procedures at their respective conviniance....really a worrying evolution in Brussels aswel in London 

11 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

You know the Express is not the most truthful source imaginable, it's both ultra-conservative and a tabloid

 

 

 

now evidently you know its hard to trust the word (or even the signature) of Britain nowadays.. So yes, sadly we must envision that the current Johnson Government signs a deal only to renege a few months after.

 

 

of course the best scenario is "the UK does not lie", this is what we all wish

 

 

 

AFAIK there were no "punishment clauses" in deals passed with Britain before, because the word of Britain used to be truthful. 

Quote: AFAIK there were no "punishment clauses" in deals passed with Britain before, because the word of Britain used to be truthful. 

 

The decline of an empire. How sad.

4 minutes ago, david555 said:

I just brought it as i know it is on right wing hand ...but also as i think many things go on behind the scene .......including the whole proces of ratification in case a deal on both sides  would be agreed , they are in strange way messing up with  ....finding bypassings way's....and i mean really on both sides adapting their legal procedures at their respective conviniance....really a worrying evolution in Brussels aswel in London 

Yes, that is what I worry about too.

 

The uk - oh well, 52% voted for this nonsense., let them bear the consequences of their collective stupidity.

But I fear the European politicians will let us down too, again.

A strong, unified Europe is what we need.

Sometimes we don't even have to set up a trap, but the brexitears still walk straight into it.

30 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

 

A strong, unified Europe is what we need.

 

  We have signed trade deals with Singapore, Vietnam and many other non European Countries  .

You know, non European/ White people/Counties .

Rather telling about who are the racists and who want a strong unified Europe 

3 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

 

But you wont vote them out will you?

The last three conservative governments have been the worst in history. Each one consecutively worse than the last.

But you guys keep voting for them.

 

If they start sending kids up chimneys it's safe to say the Tories won't get a majority...

53 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

 

A strong, unified Europe is what we need.

 

  Who should Europeans be united against ?

Who are the enemy that we need to fight/be united  against ?

27 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

If they start sending kids up chimneys it's safe to say the Tories won't get a majority...

 

   Great work experience , earn their keep, rather than getting Child benefit ????  

1 minute ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

   Have a shovel 

OK I will answer your question.

 

Europe should be united against tax heavens, countries that use slave labour, countries that allow pollution, counties that manipulate currencies, and so on.

And who knows? A united Europe could be a step to a united world, without racism and nationalism - as envisaged by a UK 18th century philosopher, William Godwin.

Johnson just blinked

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/14/brexit-trade-deal-possible-within-days-after-johnson-concession-says-eu?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

6 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Johnson just blinked

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/14/brexit-trade-deal-possible-within-days-after-johnson-concession-says-eu?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

of course he did, the UK is going to surrender to the EU, just a question of days now

 

Mission Accomplished

3 hours ago, vogie said:

 

Correct, the voters voted in good trust.

 

But they  were clearly uninformed/unawared. 

 

 

It's like asking :

"you want a water or a beer?"

 

When the majority opted for a beer, they are than informed that the beer is not available right away , as there are negotations going on with the browery, and that it may cost 1000 Baht. 

 

3 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Correct, the voters voted in good trust.

 

But they  were clearly uninformed/unawared. 

 

 

It's like asking :

"you want a water or a beer?"

 

When the majority opted for a beer, they are than informed that the beer is not available right away , as there are negotations going on with the browery, and that it may cost 1000 Baht. 

 

haha..... or to be told that the only beer available is Heineken.......

1 hour ago, Bluespunk said:

Johnson just blinked

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/14/brexit-trade-deal-possible-within-days-after-johnson-concession-says-eu?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Despite positive signs on the so-called level playing field provisions, Barnier claimed talks over a deal on fishing had gone backwards, raising the risk they could run deep into December.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/14/brexit-trade-deal-possible-within-days-after-johnson-concession-says-eu?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

 

Not everything going the EU way

After so many extensions due to the ineptitude of the British negotiators and government . . . just leave.  Leave.  This is almost as bad as the Trump saga . . . just leave. 

31 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Correct, the voters voted in good trust.

 

But they  were clearly uninformed/unawared. 

 

 

It's like asking :

"you want a water or a beer?"

 

When the majority opted for a beer, they are than informed that the beer is not available right away , as there are negotations going on with the browery, and that it may cost 1000 Baht. 

 

By the way, happy 75th birthday LuckyLuke......

https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2020/11/30/lucky-luke-75-jaar-tentoonstelling-kortrijk/

A number of baiting, bickering, nonsense remarks and replies removed.   When you have nothing to add to the discussion, it might be wise to stop posting.   This prevents a moderator from stopping you from posting.  

 

1 hour ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

   Great work experience , earn their keep, rather than getting Child benefit ????  

Slavery may not be part of Europe's idea of a level playing field.

14 hours ago, sandyf said:

Only a detailed white paper would have told the public what brexit really meant.

The Scottish government published a 650 page white paper, which probably cost them a lot of votes. It is much easier to mislead people verbally than it is in writing, something Bojo has honed to perfection.

And the remain campiagn was riddled with lies as was Alex Salmion's take on brexit. Yes politicians lie but is seems remainers jump on a leave politicians lie but ignore a remainer politicians lie. 

 

Regardless people can make their own minds and have their own informed choice and believe what they want. That is democracy. I don't why people are still going on about the referendum vote. it has been done and dusted and will not and can't be changed. Time to move on.

3 hours ago, luckyluke said:

Correct, the voters voted in good trust.

 

But they  were clearly uninformed/unawared. 

 

 

It's like asking :

"you want a water or a beer?"

 

When the majority opted for a beer, they are than informed that the beer is not available right away , as there are negotations going on with the browery, and that it may cost 1000 Baht. 

 

You have just written nonsense I am afraid and a justification for remainers to feel they have been cheated. The vote from both sides had mistruths. How about the people who don't care about potential consequences of staying or leaving the EU but voted that they do not want to stay in or leave. 

 

The beer and water argument is useless and becoming childish for people to feel vilified.

 

For someone who talks about perception as an argument you have lost it with that post.