Chinese dams under U.S. scrutiny in Mekong rivalry

[webfact]

Chinese dams under U.S. scrutiny in Mekong rivalry

By Kay Johnson and Matthew Tostevin

 

FILE PHOTO: A view of the Mekong river bordering Thailand and Laos is seen from the Thai side in Nong Khai, Thailand, October 29, 2019. REUTERS/Soe Zeya Tun/File Photo

 

BANGKOK (Reuters) - A U.S.-funded project using satellites to track and publish water levels at Chinese dams on the Mekong river was launched on Monday, adding to the superpowers' rivalry in Southeast Asia.

 

The 4,350-km (2,700-mile) waterway - known as the Lancang in China and flowing south through Myanmar, Laos, Thailand, Cambodia and Vietnam - has become a focus of competition.

 

Beijing has dismissed U.S. research saying Chinese dams have retained water to the detriment of downstream nations, where 60 million people depend on the river for fishing and farming.

 

The Mekong Dam Monitor, part-funded by the State Department, uses data from cloud-piercing satellites to track levels of dams in China and other countries.

 

The information will be open for everyone in near real-time.

 

A separate indicator of "surface wetness" is to show which parts of the region are wetter or drier than usual: a guide to how much natural flows are being affected by the dams.

 

"The monitor provides evidence that China's 11 mainstream dams are sophisticatedly orchestrated and operated in a way to maximize the production of hydropower for sale to China’s eastern provinces with zero consideration given to downstream impacts," said Brian Eyler of the Washington-based Stimson Center, a global think tank which operates the virtual water gauges.

 

'POSITIVE BENEFITS'

China has been critical of past research, including a study by Eyes on Earth - part of the Mekong Dam Monitor project - which said water had been held back in 2019 as other countries suffered severe drought.

 

"The United States has been unable to provide good evidence throughout," the state-backed China Renewable Energy Engineering Institute said in a Dec. 4 report.

 

"The positive benefits of upstream Lancang river hydropower on downstream Mekong neighbours are clear and obvious," it said, adding that water stored in reservoirs during the flood season helped prevent both downstream floods and droughts.

 

China agreed earlier this year to share water data with the Mekong River Commission (MRC) - an advisory body to Thailand, Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam that had long sought the information for better planning.

 

China and the United States have rival bodies working with Mekong countries: the Beijing-based Lancang-Mekong Cooperation and the Mekong-U.S. Partnership.

 

The two nations are also at odds in the South China Sea, where Washington challenges Beijing's claim to most of the waterway, a major conduit for trade that is also rich in energy resources.

 

(Additional reporting by David Stanway in Shanghai; Editing by Andrew Cawthorne)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2020-12-14

 

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[RichardColeman]

Daft that Thailand would want greater ties with a nation that could potentially deprive them of a basic human right to water if they wanted to. 

[Salerno]

As daft as peeing off "a nation that could potentially deprive them of a basic human right to water if they wanted to."?

[PatOngo]

1 hour ago, webfact said:

Beijing has dismissed U.S. research saying Chinese dams have retained water to the detriment of downstream nations, where 60 million people depend on the river for fishing and farming.

Does anyone think China gives a rat's toss if it serves their greedy, expansionist needs!  

[Pattaya Spotter]

4 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

Daft that Thailand would want greater ties with a nation that could potentially deprive them of a basic human right to water if they wanted to. 

I think Thailand would want good relations with such a country.

[seajae]

china cares about nothing except china, they will do as they please and blame everyone else for the results and deny any culpability. time for the rest of the world to come down had on them before they destroy many other countries with their arrogance

[Isaan sailor]

Must be worth it—Thailand gets submarines, bullet trains and mysterious foreign inflows in return.

[John Drake]

2 hours ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

I think Thailand would want good relations with such a country.

 

You mean "subservient relations," don't you???

[Pattaya Spotter]

2 hours ago, seajae said:

time for the rest of the world to come down had on them before they destroy many other countries with their arrogance

China hasn't engaged in serious armed conflict since 1979 (a border squirmish with Vietnam); since that time, the US and its allies have invaded Kuwait, Iraq (twice), and Afghanistan causing untold destruction, death, and chaos; while also managing to intervene militarily in dozens of other conflicts around the world (Syria, Iraq, Somalia,  Sudan, Niger, Mali, Yemen, Panama, Grenada, etc.). But please carry on with your China bashing.

[Pattaya Spotter]

2 hours ago, John Drake said:

 

You mean "subservient relations," don't you???

No I mean good...it's never going to be that Thailand, a nation of 65M people on China's periphery, is going to get one over on its continental neighbor of 1.5B people. 

[oompie69]

11 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

China hasn't engaged in serious armed conflict since 1979 (a border squirmish with Vietnam); since that time, the US and its allies have invaded Kuwait, Iraq (twice), and Afghanistan causing untold destruction, death, and chaos; while also managing to intervene militarily in dozens of other conflicts around the world (Syria, Iraq, Somalia,  Sudan, Niger, Mali, Yemen, Panama, Grenada, etc.). But please carry on with your China bashing.

Hear Hear!!!!!!!

[PatOngo]

8 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

No I mean good...it's never going to be that Thailand, a nation of 65M people on China's periphery, is going to get one over on its continental neighbor of 1.5B people. 

The smartest people in Thailand are Chinese Thai anyway! They've had a leg in for years!

[oompie69]

1 minute ago, PatOngo said:

The smartest people in Thailand are Chinese Thai anyway! They've had a leg in for years!

and over as well, I might venture.

[Mr Meeseeks]

1 hour ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

China hasn't engaged in serious armed conflict since 1979 (a border squirmish with Vietnam); since that time, the US and its allies have invaded Kuwait, Iraq (twice), and Afghanistan causing untold destruction, death, and chaos; while also managing to intervene militarily in dozens of other conflicts around the world (Syria, Iraq, Somalia,  Sudan, Niger, Mali, Yemen, Panama, Grenada, etc.). But please carry on with your China bashing.

I dare you to tell a Vietnamese that it was just a "border skirmish". There was a proper war and border skirmishes have continued into the 90's.

 

Invasion Of Manchukuo in 1945
Invasion Of China in 1949
Invasion Of Tibet in 1950
Invasion Of South and North Korea in 1950
Invasion Of India In 1962
Invasion Of The Soviet Union In 1969
Invasion Of Vietnam In 1979

 

Yeh, they are good blokes the Chinese. 

[Pattaya Spotter]

38 minutes ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

I dare you to tell a Vietnamese that it was just a "border skirmish". There was a proper war and border skirmishes have continued into the 90's.

 

Invasion Of Manchukuo in 1945
Invasion Of China in 1949
Invasion Of Tibet in 1950
Invasion Of South and North Korea in 1950
Invasion Of India In 1962
Invasion Of The Soviet Union In 1969
Invasion Of Vietnam In 1979

 

Yeh, they are good blokes the Chinese. 

I, of course, mentioned the invasion of ???????? in 1979. As for the rest:

 

"Manchukuo" was a part of China taken by the Japanese during the Sino-Japanese wars of the '30s...so China was '"invading" ????????????????????

 

Invasion of China in 1949...they invaded themselves..again? ????????????

 

Tibet may or may not be considered a part of China, depending on one's point of view. 

 

North Korea invaded South Korea...and then when South Korea and it's American ally invaded North Korea,  and then made explicit threats to "cross the Yalu River" into China, China intervened on behalf of their North Korean ally to push South Korean and American forces back to the 38th Parallel. 

 

China didn't invade India in 1962...the exact demarcation of the border between India and China is disputed. This was one in a series of border squirmishes between the two countries that continues to this day.

 

It would have been pretty unusual for ???????? to invade the Soviet Union in 1969 considering they were Cold War allies at the time. As I was only 4 at the time, maybe I missed it.

 

You might also take note that ALL these instances you cite are border disputes...China has land borders with a dozen or more countries and therefore it's not out of the ordinary for there to be such disputes. In no cases, have the Chinese initiated hostilities with its neighbors, or any other states, to plunder resources or change the nature or government of another nation. Unlike the U.S., and its allies, it doesn't claim the right to send millions of troops halfway around the world to engage in conflict and topple governments of which it dislikes.

 

Good or bad who's to say...they are a country of 1.5B people, re-asserting themselves on the world stage after 200 years of mistreatment by colonial Western powers, invasion and occupation by Imperial Japan, internal civil wars and conflict, and mass poverty and starvation. It's probably best if we can learn to get along because China isn't going anywhere.

 

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

10 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

I, of course, mentioned the invasion of ???????? in 1979. As for the rest:

 

"Manchukuo" was a part of China taken by the Japanese during the Sino-Japanese wars of the '30s...so China was '"invading" ????????????????????

 

Invasion of China in 1949...they invaded themselves..again? ????????????

 

Tibet may or may not be considered a part of China, depending on one's point of view. 

 

North Korea invaded South Korea...and then when South Korea and it's American ally invaded North Korea,  and then made explicit threats to "cross the Yalu River" into China, China intervened on behalf of their North Korean ally to push South Korean and American forces back to the 38th Parallel. 

 

China didn't invade India in 1962...the exact demarcation of the border between India and China is disputed. This was one in a series of border squirmishes between the two countries that continues to this day.

 

It would have been pretty unusual for ???????? to invade the Soviet Union in 1969 considering they were Cold War allies at the time. As I was only 4 at the time, maybe I missed it.

 

Good or bad who's to say...they are a country of 1.5B people, re-asserting themselves on the world stage after 200 years of mistreatment by colonial Western powers, invasion and occupation by Imperial Japan, internal civil wars and conflict, and mass poverty and starvation. It's probably best if we can learn to get along because China isn't going anywhere.

 

 

Yeh, like I said, the Chinese, great bunch of lads.

[from the home of CC]

21 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

I, of course, mentioned the invasion of ???????? in 1979. As for the rest:

 

"Manchukuo" was a part of China taken by the Japanese during the Sino-Japanese wars of the '30s...so China was '"invading" ????????????????????

 

Invasion of China in 1949...they invaded themselves..again? ????????????

 

Tibet may or may not be considered a part of China, depending on one's point of view. 

 

North Korea invaded South Korea...and then when South Korea and it's American ally invaded North Korea,  and then made explicit threats to "cross the Yalu River" into China, China intervened on behalf of their North Korean ally to push South Korean and American forces back to the 38th Parallel. 

 

China didn't invade India in 1962...the exact demarcation of the border between India and China is disputed. This was one in a series of border squirmishes between the two countries that continues to this day.

 

It would have been pretty unusual for ???????? to invade the Soviet Union in 1969 considering they were Cold War allies at the time. As I was only 4 at the time, maybe I missed it.

 

You might also take note that ALL these instances you cite are border disputes...China has land borders with a dozen or more countries and therefore it's not out of the ordinary for there to be such disputes. In no cases, have the Chinese initiated hostilities with its neighbors, or any other states, to plunder resources or change the nature or government of another nation. Unlike the U.S., and its allies, it doesn't claim the right to send millions of troops halfway around the world to engage in conflict and topple governments of which it dislikes.

 

Good or bad who's to say...they are a country of 1.5B people, re-asserting themselves on the world stage after 200 years of mistreatment by colonial Western powers, invasion and occupation by Imperial Japan, internal civil wars and conflict, and mass poverty and starvation. It's probably best if we can learn to get along because China isn't going anywhere.

 

 

yes the US seems intent in 'scrutinizing' this side of the world. But imo the reasons are purely business related  and not in any way shape or form out of concern for the security of those living in SE Asia - though the Americans certainly like to blow that BS horn loudly and incessantly. Trouble is the Chinese see right through the ruse and will not be cowed by one of the biggest hypocrites in the world..

[A512]

3 hours ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

I, of course, mentioned the invasion of ???????? in 1979. As for the rest:

 

"Manchukuo" was a part of China taken by the Japanese during the Sino-Japanese wars of the '30s...so China was '"invading" ????????????????????

 

Invasion of China in 1949...they invaded themselves..again? ????????????

 

Tibet may or may not be considered a part of China, depending on one's point of view. 

 

North Korea invaded South Korea...and then when South Korea and it's American ally invaded North Korea,  and then made explicit threats to "cross the Yalu River" into China, China intervened on behalf of their North Korean ally to push South Korean and American forces back to the 38th Parallel. 

 

China didn't invade India in 1962...the exact demarcation of the border between India and China is disputed. This was one in a series of border squirmishes between the two countries that continues to this day.

 

It would have been pretty unusual for ???????? to invade the Soviet Union in 1969 considering they were Cold War allies at the time. As I was only 4 at the time, maybe I missed it.

 

You might also take note that ALL these instances you cite are border disputes...China has land borders with a dozen or more countries and therefore it's not out of the ordinary for there to be such disputes. In no cases, have the Chinese initiated hostilities with its neighbors, or any other states, to plunder resources or change the nature or government of another nation. Unlike the U.S., and its allies, it doesn't claim the right to send millions of troops halfway around the world to engage in conflict and topple governments of which it dislikes.

 

Good or bad who's to say...they are a country of 1.5B people, re-asserting themselves on the world stage after 200 years of mistreatment by colonial Western powers, invasion and occupation by Imperial Japan, internal civil wars and conflict, and mass poverty and starvation. It's probably best if we can learn to get along because China isn't going anywhere.

 

 

well china has been well funded in the last 2 decades by western. not everything seems to be as appears in history books. ????

[tifino]

actual US influence within the Dams region,

would be limited to making a contemporary sequel to: 

 

[chainarong]

21 hours ago, seajae said:

china cares about nothing except china, they will do as they please and blame everyone else for the results and deny any culpability. time for the rest of the world to come down had on them before they destroy many other countries with their arrogance

The only thing China will understand is when they're turned into a ash dump ,and they're sure pressing the right buttons,  other than that you're wasting your time talking to them, Africa is now finding this out how great China is not being able to pay their silk road re-payments.

[A512]

24 minutes ago, chainarong said:

The only thing China will understand is when they're turned into a ash dump ,and they're sure pressing the right buttons,  other than that you're wasting your time talking to them, Africa is now finding this out how great China is not being able to pay their silk road re-payments.

the chinaman once walked with a bag full of cash leaving behind only promisses.

[Traubert]

17 hours ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

I dare you to tell a Vietnamese that it was just a "border skirmish". There was a proper war and border skirmishes have continued into the 90's.

 

Invasion Of Manchukuo in 1945
Invasion Of China in 1949
Invasion Of Tibet in 1950
Invasion Of South and North Korea in 1950
Invasion Of India In 1962
Invasion Of The Soviet Union In 1969
Invasion Of Vietnam In 1979

 

Yeh, they are good blokes the Chinese. 

Forty years ago. Shall we look at what America has been up to in those forty years?

[Iron Tongue]

Well, China had been busy murdering 65,000,000 of their own people via purges, starvation, qmismanagementand corruption during the second half of the 1900s, plus they were so dirt poor that they couldn't viably conduct more than a few border skirmkshes.

 

But now that China has the 2nd largest economy in the world, China has lost no time in expanding their military and aggressively pushing outwards in all 4 directions using debt traps and military threats.   Yes, even claiming Russian territory.  

 

If you can read Chinese, you'd be able to access current Chinese military generals & admirals openly advocating war with the US today.  

 

A strong China does not want friends.

[Traubert]

4 hours ago, Iron Tongue said:

Well, China had been busy murdering 65,000,000 of their own people via purges, starvation, qmismanagementand corruption during the second half of the 1900s, plus they were so dirt poor that they couldn't viably conduct more than a few border skirmkshes.

 

But now that China has the 2nd largest economy in the world, China has lost no time in expanding their military and aggressively pushing outwards in all 4 directions using debt traps and military threats.   Yes, even claiming Russian territory.  

 

If you can read Chinese, you'd be able to access current Chinese military generals & admirals openly advocating war with the US today.  

 

A strong China does not want friends.

Source? Particularly on the 65mn people.The rest will be interesting though. Provided its not western propagada.

[A512]

7 hours ago, Traubert said:

Source? Particularly on the 65mn people.The rest will be interesting though. Provided its not western propagada.

you will have to ask the sauce, a chinaman. Americans think they know so well each and every country in this world, that they decided to write their own history of the world. Don't fall for it, research, study, from the source, not from amerikans.