Despite hi-tech advances, many Europeans wary of taking COVID shot

[webfact]

Despite hi-tech advances, many Europeans wary of taking COVID shot

By Joanna Plucinska and Tsvetelia Tsolova

 

Healthcare workers applaud Mauricette, a 78-year-old French woman, after she received the first dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech coronavirus disease (COVID-19) vaccine in the country, at the Rene-Muret hospital in Sevran, on the outskirts of Paris, France, December 27, 2020. Thomas Samson/Pool via REUTERS

 

WARSAW/SOFIA (Reuters) - Europe rolled out a huge COVID-19 vaccination drive on Sunday to try to rein in the coronavirus pandemic but many Europeans are sceptical about the speed at which the vaccines have been tested and approved and reluctant to have the shot.

 

The European Union has secured contracts with a range of drugmakers including Pfizer and BioNTech, Moderna and AstraZeneca, for a total of more than two billion doses and has set a goal for all adults to be inoculated next year.

 

But surveys have pointed to high levels of hesitancy towards inoculation in countries from France to Poland, with many used to vaccines taking decades to develop, not just months.

 

"I don't think there's a vaccine in history that has been tested so quickly," Ireneusz Sikorski, 41, said as he stepped out of a church in central Warsaw with his two children.

 

"I am not saying vaccination shouldn't be taking place. But I am not going to test an unverified vaccine on my children, or on myself."

 

Countries across Europe on Sunday launched a massive, cross-border vaccination campaign in a coordinated attempt to see of the coronavirus pandemic. David Doyle reports.

 

Surveys in Poland, where distrust in public institutions runs deep, have shown fewer than 40% of people planning to get vaccinated, for now. On Sunday, only half the medical staff in a Warsaw hospital where the country's first shot was administered had signed up.

 

In Spain, one of Europe's hardest-hit countries, German, a 28-year-old singer and music composer originally from Tenerife, also plans to wait for now.

 

"No one close to me has had it (COVID-19). I'm obviously not saying it doesn't exist because lots of people have died of it, but for now I wouldn't have it (the vaccine)."

 

A Christian Orthodox bishop in Bulgaria, where 45% of people have said they would not get a shot and 40% plan to wait to see if any negative side effects appear, compared COVID-19 to polio.

 

"Myself, I am vaccinated against everything I can be," Bishop Tihon told reporters after getting his shot, standing alongside the health minister in Sofia.

 

He spoke about anxiety over polio before vaccination became available in the 1950s and 1960s.

 

"We were all trembling in fear of catching polio. And then we were overjoyed," he said. "Now, we have to convince people. It's a pity."

 

GREAT LEAP FORWARD

The widespread hesitancy does not appear to take into account the scientific developments in recent decades.

 

The traditional method of creating vaccines – introducing a weakened or dead virus, or a piece of one, to stimulate the body's immune system – takes over a decade on average, according to a 2013 study. One pandemic flu vaccine took over eight years while a hepatitis B vaccine was nearly 18 years in the making.

 

Moderna's vaccine, based on the so-called messenger ribonucleic acid (mRNA) technology, went from gene sequencing to the first human injection in 63 days.

 

"We'll look back on the advances made in 2020 and say: 'That was a moment when science really did make a leap forward'," said Jeremy Farrar, director of the Oxford University Clinical Research Unit, which is backed by the Wellcome Trust.

 

The Pfizer/BioNTech shot has been linked with a few cases of severe allergic reactions as it has been rolled out in the United Kingdom and the United States. It has not turned up any serious long-term side effects in clinical trials.

 

Independent pollster Alpha Research said its recent survey suggested that fewer than one in five Bulgarians from the first groups to be offered the vaccine - frontline medics, pharmacists, teachers and nursing home staff - planned to volunteer to get a shot.

 

An IPSOS survey of 15 countries published on Nov. 5 showed then that 54% of French would have a COVID vaccine if one were available. The figure was 64% in Italy and Spain, 79% in Britain and 87% in China.

 

A later IFOP poll - which did not have comparative data for other countries - showed that only 41% people in France would take the shot.

 

In Sweden, where public trust in authorities runs high like elsewhere across the Nordics, more than two people in three want to be immunised. Still, some say no.

 

"If someone gave me 10 million euro, I wouldn't take it," Lisa Renberg, 32, said on Wednesday.

 

Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki urged Poles on Sunday to sign up for vaccination, saying the herd immunity effect depended on them.

 

Critics have said Warsaw's nationalist leaders have been too accepting of anti-vaccination attitudes in the past in an effort to garner conservative support.

 

(Additional reporting by Anna Wlodarczak-Semczuk in Warsaw, Colm Fulton in Stockholm, Phil Blenkinsop in Brussels and Silvio Castellanos in Madrid; Writing by Justyna Pawlak; Editing by Nick Macfie)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2020-12-28

 

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[bodga]

Cue the anti vaxxer  nut jobs  comments

[Scott]

Comments on moderation removed.   

 

[Chomper Higgot]

Social media is flooded with conspiracy theories and anti-vaccine nonsense.

 

People read it and tell themselves they ‘be been doing ‘research’.

 

Well good luck with that.

[Tug]

It needs to be mandatory no jab no job no bus no shopping no travel period 

[bodga]

4 hours ago, Tug said:

It needs to be mandatory no jab no job no bus no shopping no travel period 

Fine by me but IF there are any problems and you end up with a s erious  disability I  will expect the govt to  fully take  care of  me

[RichardColeman]

7 minutes ago, bodga said:

Fine by me but IF there are any problems and you end up with a s erious  disability I  will expect the govt to  fully take  care of  me

And China to pay for your funeral expenses and family support if you do not take it ? 

[bodga]

2 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

And China to pay for your funeral expenses and family support if you do not take it ? 

I wasnt discussing NOT  taking it

[Jeffr2]

13 minutes ago, bodga said:

Fine by me but IF there are any problems and you end up with a s erious  disability I  will expect the govt to  fully take  care of  me

Yeah...don't hold your breath on this one....

[evadgib]

5 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Social media is flooded with conspiracy theories and anti-vaccine nonsense.

 

People read it and tell themselves they ‘be been doing ‘research’.

 

Well good luck with that.

A few months ago during the initial lockdown you were openly bragging about going on 90km mask-free bicycle rides while others were cowering in their homes wearing face nappies. How can you now have the gall to virtue signal in yet another thread?

Edited December 28, 2020 by evadgib

[Pattaya Spotter]

9 hours ago, webfact said:

But surveys have pointed to high levels of hesitancy towards inoculation in countries from France to Poland, with many used to vaccines taking decades to develop, not just months.

 

9 hours ago, webfact said:

I am not saying vaccination shouldn't be taking place. But I am not going to test an unverified vaccine on my children, or on myself."

 

Some interesting comments, which appear to militate against the prevailing TV membership's view that it's the Americans who are the knuckle-draggers, while Europeans are highly evolved enlightened beings.

 

It's also funny seeing the woke EU and its leaders, who drone on endlessly about inequities between the global north and south and passing innumerable plans and programs to end this or that in the Third World, buying up much of the world's coronavirus vaccines for themselves, and hoarding over twice as many vaccine doses than is necessary to immunize their population.

Edited December 28, 2020 by Pattaya Spotter

[robblok]

9 hours ago, bodga said:

Cue the anti vaxxer  nut jobs  comments

Anti vaxers are generally nut jobs, however there is nothing wrong with not wanting to be first in line with a new vaccine. Personally if I could get an injection now id take it. I believe they are safe. But its not strange not to want to be first with something like this. 

[from the home of CC]

7 hours ago, Tug said:

It needs to be mandatory no jab no job no bus no shopping no travel period 

not sure about the job etc but I do believe that down the road folks that refuse vaccination will never be able to travel internationally again..

[robblok]

1 hour ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

 

 

Some interesting comments, which appear to militate against the prevailing TV membership's view that it's the Americans who are the knuckle-draggers, while Europeans are highly evolved enlightened beings.

 

It's also funny seeing the woke EU and its leaders, who drone on endlessly about inequities between the global north and south and passing innumerable plans and programs to end this or that in the Third World, buying up much of the world's coronavirus vaccines for themselves, and hoarding over twice as many vaccine doses than is necessary to immunize their population.

If Americans were not knuckle draggers then not so many would have supported Trump and believe his lies about the election ????

 

Anyway these people just dont want to be first. That is understandable. I mean let people do as they please get vaccinated if they want. In the beginning there wont be enough does available. But many countries will only let vaccinated people in.

 

Maybe vaccinated people should get some sort of passport and (if its proven that vaccinated people can't infect people) not having to wear a mask and can go in shops without it. Travel more without it ect. Though it might be hard to arrange this as it would take a lot of checking.

 

Still if it means that those vaccinated can travel freely without having to go to 14 days of quarantine then I think more people will take it.

 

 

 

 

[FritsSikkink]

3 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

And China to pay for your funeral expenses and family support if you do not take it ? 

No the USA as they are the biggest spreaders.

[robblok]

24 minutes ago, from the home of CC said:

not sure about the job etc but I do believe that down the road folks that refuse vaccination will never be able to travel internationally again..

Possible, depends on destination countries setting rules. I think that countries like Thailand could make it mandatory for people to be vaccinated if they want entry. 

[Jeffr2]

32 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

No the USA as they are the biggest spreaders.

MAGA!!!

[Slain]

Statistically, taking the vaccine is the best bet by far. Getting the virus without the vaccine seems a highly possible anyway.  If you go along with anti vaccine views, looks like you are taking a bigger chance of not only getting an infection but increasing the chances of every one else getting it

The argument of the measles anti vaccine folks is that it isn't usually serious enough to cause death.  Same with this virus but much more of a chance of fatality or long lasting damage

Stay safe, wash hands, wear masks, not just for yourself but everybody. Try to follow these rules when your out socialising.  Also we all know how we like to get overfriendly after a few drinks, so bear that in mind as well.

[Jeffr2]

35 minutes ago, Slain said:

Statistically, taking the vaccine is the best bet by far. Getting the virus without the vaccine seems a highly possible anyway.  If you go along with anti vaccine views, looks like you are taking a bigger chance of not only getting an infection but increasing the chances of every one else getting it

The argument of the measles anti vaccine folks is that it isn't usually serious enough to cause death.  Same with this virus but much more of a chance of fatality or long lasting damage

Stay safe, wash hands, wear masks, not just for yourself but everybody. Try to follow these rules when your out socialising.  Also we all know how we like to get overfriendly after a few drinks, so bear that in mind as well.

With the measles, if you don't get 90% of the population jabbed, it will start coming back.  Thus, the anti-vaxxers are massively detrimental to our society.

[Chomper Higgot]

6 hours ago, evadgib said:

A few months ago during the initial lockdown you were openly bragging about going on 90km mask-free bicycle rides while others were cowering in their homes wearing face nappies. How can you now have the gall to virtue signal in yet another thread?

I’m still doing 90Km bike rides without a face mask, I’m only likely to infect those who ca keep up.

 

Thank you for remembering and recalling such small details in my exercise routine, it assures me you really do care, which is rather sweet of you.

 

 

[AKJeff]

18 hours ago, robblok said:

Anti vaxers are generally nut jobs, 

Here is a quote from the linked article.

 

 The communities where anti-vaxxers cluster are also among the most liberal. Marin County, San Francsico County and Alameda County all voted overwhelmingly for Obama in 2008.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/01/22/vaccine-deniers-stick-together-and-now-theyre-ruining-things-for-everyone/

[Jeffr2]

7 minutes ago, AKJeff said:

Here is a quote from the linked article.

 

 The communities where anti-vaxxers cluster are also among the most liberal. Marin County, San Francsico County and Alameda County all voted overwhelmingly for Obama in 2008.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/01/22/vaccine-deniers-stick-together-and-now-theyre-ruining-things-for-everyone/

Seems most of these nuts are members of the GOP and Trump supporters.  Makes sense.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/09/17/nearly-half-of-all-americans-including-most-republicans-say-they-would-not-get-covid-19-vaccine/?sh=78c4ae334d77
 

Quote

 

Nearly Half Of All Americans, Including Most Republicans, Say They Would Not Get Covid-19 Vaccine

 

Nearly half of all Americans, including a majority of Republicans, say they definitely or probably would not get the Covid-19 vaccine if it were available today, according to a new poll, the latest sign of fear and uncertainty as President Trump promises a fast vaccine and his own health officials warn it could take many more months for one to be ready.

 

 

[AKJeff]

 

 

I have had my vaccinations.   I have given them to my children as well.  I believe in vaccinations as the best way to prevent many diseases.  But when the US was going through a wave of measles a few years ago this was studied.   

 

There were clusters around a few religious groups, often orthodox Jewish groups and amongst white educated liberals.   Just look at who was putting the information on Facebook.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/nov/13/majority-antivaxx-vaccine-ads-facebook-funded-by-two-organizations-study

 

Look who is the biggest "influencer."

 

Jenny McCarthy?

 

The truth is the anti vax movement is on the rise but vaccine rates in the US are still mostly above 90 percent. 94.4% according to this study. 

 

https://www.healthtestingcenters.com/research-guides/vaccination-trends/

 

After all the political blustering is over, i expect the vast majority of people in the US will get a Covid vaccination as well.  My only real point to original comment you made about "nut jobs, " was that you seem to think they are all Trump supporters.   That has definitely not been the case in the past.   In the past it has been more organic "healthy lifestyle" supporters. 

 

Not BS unless you ignore studies, interviews,  and facts.  I am sure you don't do that though because that would put you in with the anti vaxxers.  (A little levity)

Edited December 29, 2020 by onthedarkside
quote of hidden post removed

[Jeffr2]

1 hour ago, AKJeff said:

 

I have had my vaccinations.   I have given them to my children as well.  I believe in vaccinations as the best way to prevent many diseases.  But when the US was going through a wave of measles a few years ago this was studied.   

 

There were clusters around a few religious groups, often orthodox Jewish groups and amongst white educated liberals.   Just look at who was putting the information on Facebook.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/nov/13/majority-antivaxx-vaccine-ads-facebook-funded-by-two-organizations-study

 

Look who is the biggest "influencer."

 

Jenny McCarthy?

 

The truth is the anti vax movement is on the rise but vaccine rates in the US are still mostly above 90 percent. 94.4% according to this study. 

 

https://www.healthtestingcenters.com/research-guides/vaccination-trends/

 

After all the political blustering is over, i expect the vast majority of people in the US will get a Covid vaccination as well.  My only real point to original comment you made about "nut jobs, " was that you seem to think they are all Trump supporters.   That has definitely not been the case in the past.   In the past it has been more organic "healthy lifestyle" supporters. 

 

Not BS unless you ignore studies, interviews,  and facts.  I am sure you don't do that though because that would put you in with the anti vaxxers.  (A little levity)

A majority of Republicans won't get the jab.  They are hard core Trump supporters.  Trump is anti-science.  Connect the dots.

 

Many are also religious.  And many of those are Trump supporters.  Sorry, but the dots connect.

 

Glad you got your bad.  These type of people are very detrimental our society.  We're all in this together.  Hopefully!!!

[AKJeff]

6 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

A majority of Republicans won't get the jab.  They are hard core Trump supporters.  Trump is anti-science.  Connect the dots.

 

Many are also religious.  And many of those are Trump supporters.  Sorry, but the dots connect.

 

Glad you got your bad.  These type of people are very detrimental our society.  We're all in this together.  Hopefully!!!

Okay,  this is the chart from the link you provided. 

 

 

It appears that 56 percent of Republicans are nut jobs and are detrimental to our society. 

 

It also appears that 42 percent of Democrats are nut jobs and are detrimental to our society. 

 

If 49 percent of people in America wanted to make vaccinations a primary voting issue then they might consider us detrimental to their society. 

 

In the end I think most will get the vaccine.   But if you think that only stupid anti science people supported Trump you are wrong.   I know many people that voted for him.   School teachers, engineers,  nurses and stay at home moms.  All educated and had valid reasons that had nothing to do with being anti science. 

 

Anyway, we probably agree on more things than you think.  I just don't like grouping people together and then telling them why they think that way.  If we want people to change the way they think education, not insults is the way I believe is most effective.   It takes time, often generations.  

 

Taking care of people is part of what makes a society.  That means physically, intellectually and mentally.   Respecting the rights of the individual is as important as protecting the majority.   Think of all the changes that have taken place in the last 40 years.  Without the right of individuals to speak about social injustices changes would not have taken place.

 

I believe in vaccinations but I believe in the right of people to have their own views about it as well.  When everyone has had their say I trust the "right" decision will be made. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, AKJeff said:

Here is a quote from the linked article.

 

 The communities where anti-vaxxers cluster are also among the most liberal. Marin County, San Francsico County and Alameda County all voted overwhelmingly for Obama in 2008.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/01/22/vaccine-deniers-stick-together-and-now-theyre-ruining-things-for-everyone/

 

The limitation of the study cited above in the WaPo article is it ONLY looked at results from 13 Northern California counties (which tend to skew liberal), and didn't look at results from anywhere else. So of course the anti-vax clusters it found are going to end up being in some liberal leaning areas (since those were the ones it studied!)

 

But those results hardly can be extrapolated to being representative of the entire country. The cited research didn't look at levels of under-vaccination anywhere else, including the wide swaths of politically conservative areas across the country outside of Nor Cal.

 

Quote

Researchers analyzing records for about 55,000 children born in 13 northern California counties between 2010 and 2012 found five geographic clusters of 3-year-olds with significantly higher rates of vaccine refusal.

 

 

And in that same vein, you managed to omit mentioning another passage in the same WaPo article that didn't fit with your thesis, but does refllect reality, talking about resistance to the measles vaccine and a measles outbreak in Southern California.

 

"Of the 34 patients in the current measles outbreak whose vaccination status is known, only five were fully vaccinated, according to the Los Angeles Times. And the worst of the outbreak is centered in Orange County, ground zero for the anti-vaccination movement that's put children at risk over junk science."

 

Let's repeat that last part again for emphasis:

 

Rock ribbed Republican Orange County at the time of the article 5 years ago -- "ground zero for the anti-vaccination movement that's put children at risk over junk science."

Edited December 29, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[AKJeff]

9 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

The limitation of the study cited above in the WaPo article is it ONLY looked at results from 13 Northern California counties (which tend to skew liberal), and didn't look at results from anywhere else. So of course the anti-vax clusters it found are going to end up being in some liberal leaning areas (since those were the ones it studied!)

 

But those results hardly can be extrapolated to being representative of the entire country. The cited research didn't look at levels of under-vaccination anywhere else, including the wide swaths of politically conservative areas across the country outside of Nor Cal.

 

 

 

And in that same vein, you managed to omit mentioning another passage in the same WaPo article that didn't fit with your thesis, but does refllect reality, talking about resistance to the measles vaccine and a measles outbreak in Southern California.

 

"Of the 34 patients in the current measles outbreak whose vaccination status is known, only five were fully vaccinated, according to the Los Angeles Times. And the worst of the outbreak is centered in Orange County, ground zero for the anti-vaccination movement that's put children at risk over junk science."

 

Let's repeat that last part again for emphasis:

 

Rock ribbed Republican Orange County at the time of the article 5 years ago -- "ground zero for the anti-vaccination movement that's put children at risk over junk science."

I posted the whole article so people could read for themselves.   It has been a long time since I read any of these articles but it was not the only one written at the time.  My point was not that every Republican vaccinates their children.   The point was the person I quoted was calling anti vaxxers "nut jobs" and associated them with Trump.   When in fact people on both sides of the political spectrum are anti vaxxers.  Many who are well educated.

 

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Also, Pew Research in mid-late Nov. did a newer survey on Americans' willingness to get the CV vaccine -- far fewer Republicans (only 50%) than Democrats say they're likely to take a CV vaccine.

 

https://www.pewresearch.org/science/2020/12/03/intent-to-get-a-covid-19-vaccine-rises-to-60-as-confidence-in-research-and-development-process-increases/

 

Intent to Get a COVID-19 Vaccine Rises to 60% as Confidence in Research and Development Process Increases

 

Still about two-in-ten ‘pretty certain’ they won’t get vaccine – even when there’s more information

 

"Overall, 60% of Americans say they would definitely or probably get a vaccine for the coronavirus, if one were available today, up from 51% who said this in September. "

 

And the political breakdown:

 

 

 

The political party breakdown taken from the larger chart above:

 

 

Far fewer Republicans than Democrats say they definitely or probably will be vaccinated for CV -- just 50% for Republicans, 69% for Democrats.

 

 

[AKJeff]

9 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Also, Pew Research in mid-late Nov. did a newer survey on Americans' willingness to get the CV vaccine.

 

https://www.pewresearch.org/science/2020/12/03/intent-to-get-a-covid-19-vaccine-rises-to-60-as-confidence-in-research-and-development-process-increases/

 

Intent to Get a COVID-19 Vaccine Rises to 60% as Confidence in Research and Development Process Increases

 

Still about two-in-ten ‘pretty certain’ they won’t get vaccine – even when there’s more information

 

"Overall, 60% of Americans say they would definitely or probably get a vaccine for the coronavirus, if one were available today, up from 51% who said this in September. "

 

And the political breakdown:

 

 

 

The political party breakdown taken from the larger chart above:

 

 

Far fewer Republicans than Democrats say they definitely or probably will be vaccinated for CV.

 

 

Sure but like I said in my earlier post, this is what someone says about a yet to be delivered vaccine during a highly politicized time.  I still think the true number will be much higher.  And that is still 31% of Democrats. The politics of this election has screwed up a lot of this sort of stuff.  Let's hope the political side of the vaccine dues down soon. 

 

And I know it is not scientific but of the people I know, only 2 families don't want the vaccine.   One the liberal and whole foods type and one the religious don't trust the government type.  

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Sadly, it's Trump and his fellow science/medicine-denying followers who have contributed to the unwillingness of many Americans to be vaccinated by denying, downplaying, deflecting and ignoring the whole coronavirus pandemic.

 

If someone is constantly telling you the pandemic is going to disappear or it isn't really that serious or there are all these (unproven and discredited) cures, then why would people who believe in that feel the need to get vaccinated?  Of course they (many) would not.

 

And the latest Pew survey results, linked above, bear that out:

 

"Republicans remain less likely than Democrats to see outbreak as major threat to public health. Overall, 84% of Democrats and 43% of Republicans say the coronavirus outbreak is a major threat to the U.S. population as a whole. The partisan gap on this measure remains about as wide as at any point during the outbreak and stands in contrast to the large shares of both Republicans (83%) and Democrats (86%) who say the outbreak is a major threat to the U.S. economy."

 

The anti-vaccine views above are reaping what they sowed.

 

 

Edited December 29, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK