Bewildered and angry, Northern Ireland unionists fret over place in UK

[webfact]

Bewildered and angry, Northern Ireland unionists fret over place in UK

By Natalie Thomas and Amanda Ferguson

 

People walk through the grounds of the Stormont Parliament buildings in Belfast, Northern Ireland December 30, 2020. Picture taken December 30, 2020. REUTERS/Phil Noble

 

LARNE, Northern Ireland (Reuters) - As Northern Ireland's unionists prepare to celebrate 100 years since the state's creation cemented their place in the United Kingdom, post-Brexit trade barriers are triggering their deepest fears: being cut off from Britain and pushed towards a united Ireland.

 

The British-run region remains deeply divided along sectarian lines, with Catholic nationalists aspiring to unification with Ireland while Protestant unionists seek to retain the status quo.

 

Nearly 23 years after a 1998 peace deal ended three decades of confrontation between the Irish Republican Army, pro-British "loyalist" paramilitaries and the British military, it is customs declarations and phytosanitary certifications that are now the focus of unionist angst.

 

From Friday, many British goods entering the smallest of the United Kingdom's four nations will require customs checks and paperwork under Britain's withdrawal deal with the European Union - which keeps Northern Ireland in the UK's customs territory but also still aligned with the EU's single market for goods.

 

Many unionists are fiercely opposed to a compromise championed by British Prime Minister Boris Johnson and the Irish government that will keep trade across the 500-km (300-mile) open land border with EU-member Ireland frictionless by effectively placing a customs border down the Irish Sea.

 

"I think it's a disgrace," Mervyn Gibson, grand secretary of the influential Protestant Orange Order organisation, told Reuters outside his Belfast home, where Britain's Union Flag flies above the doorway.

 

"We should be treated equally whether we live in Devon or Cornwall (in England) or Antrim or Down (in Northern Ireland). We've been let down and indeed betrayed by the prime minister who promised us there would be no border down the Irish Sea."

 

The vast majority of the 30,000-member Orange Order - who hold large and sometimes divisive marches each year to celebrate centuries-old military victories - are bewildered and angry that Brexit has "made Northern Ireland a place apart", Gibson said.

 

Calls for Irish unity have increased since the 2016 Brexit referendum, when Northern Ireland voted 56%-44% to remain in the EU, though most opinion polls suggest the prospect remains distant for now.

 

Under the 1998 Good Friday Agreement, the British government can call a "border poll" if it appears likely a majority of those voting would seek to form part of a united Ireland. Unionist politicians remain dismissive.

 

"I'm 50 this year and ever since I was a child I was told the united Ireland is coming," Northern Ireland First Minister Arlene Foster told Reuters on Wednesday.

 

"It never has come because, at the heels of the hunt, people realise that they are much better off in the United Kingdom than they are within the Republic of Ireland or within a European superstate."

 

PLACE IN THE UNION

Foster's Democratic Unionist Party says it will lobby the British government hard to limit post-Brexit barriers, fearing a reorientation of parts of the economy towards the Irish Republic could undermine Northern Ireland's place in the union.

 

With border control posts due to be erected next year, the overwhelmingly Protestant port town of Larne could be one of the first places where the psychological impact of Northern Ireland being treated differently to the rest of the UK is felt.

 

Unionists there celebrate their identity by painting road edgings in the red, white and blue of the British flag or erecting pro-British murals. An 8-metre steel crown celebrating Queen Elizabeth's diamond jubilee sits on a roundabout in the town.

 

Local unionists are concerned but mainly bemused by it all, says David Hume, a historian and former member of Northern Ireland's Flags and Culture Commission, a body set up after the curtailing of a century-old tradition of flying the British flag over Belfast City Hall in 2012 led to weeks of rioting.

 

"You can't see the Irish Sea border, it's all happening on paper. If it starts to hit them in their pockets, that's the sort of thing that will make them very annoyed and quite truculent," said Hume.

 

"Unionists will be very suspicious as to the longer term."

 

But where unionists are unsure of what Brexit will mean in practice, nationalist politicians sense an opportunity to press their case that Irish unity is the logical destination.

 

Northern Ireland's largest nationalist party Sinn Fein, now also the joint largest in the Irish parliament, thinks a vote on its central goal can be held and won within a decade.

 

"More and more people are asking themselves the question, what is my identity outside the European Union, what has Brexit done to my identify and there are people saying my identity as a European can be protected in a united Ireland," John O'Dowd, a senior Sinn Fein lawmaker in the Northern Irish Assembly, said.

 

"Brexit has opened up a discussion among some perhaps who thought they would never have to have that discussion."

 

(Additional reporting by Ian Graham in Belfast; Writing by Padraic Halpin in Dublin; Editing by Conor Humphries and Alex Richardson)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2021-01-01

 

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[cmarshall]

The demographic tide is against the DUP.  It's only a matter of time until Ireland is united.  Brexit only will only speed it up

[Whale]

1 hour ago, webfact said:

We should be treated equally whether we live in Devon or Cornwall (in England) or Antrim or Down (in Northern Ireland).

 

The devolved administration's are putting an end to the UK&NI as we know (knew?) it, forget the effects of Brexit as its a side issue in the future of devolvement. 

[herfiehandbag]

They will find little sympathy. I cannot speak for the Scots or the Welsh, but I suspect that many of the English are, if not fed up with, certainly bored with the biggotted intransigent front put up by the Northern Irish Unionist/Protestant community.

That does not equate with support for or enthusiasm for Sinn Fein.  For the last century we have propped up their artificial state with blood and treasure, and they have never really made any effort to resolve their differences. Marching around in ill fitting scruffy uniforms banging big drums and shouting "<deleted> the Pope" outside Catholic Churches, or murdering police men are hardly "cultural traditions". A plague on both their houses. 

Edited January 1, 2021 by herfiehandbag

[Grusa]

3 hours ago, herfiehandbag said:

They will find little sympathy. I cannot speak for the Scots or the Welsh, but I suspect that many of the English are, if not fed up with, certainly bored with the biggotted intransigent front put up by the Northern Irish Unionist/Protestant community.

That does not equate with support for or enthusiasm for Sinn Fein.  For the last century we have propped up their artificial state with blood and treasure, and they have never really made any effort to resolve their differences. Marching around in ill fitting scruffy uniforms banging big drums and shouting "<deleted> the Pope" outside Catholic Churches, or murdering police men are hardly "cultural traditions". A plague on both their houses. 

As a Scotsman, Here here. Or is it Hear hear.

 

On further research it's the latter! https://www.grammarly.com/blog/here-here-vs-hear-hear/

 

[Surelynot]

Sold down the river by the money grubbing DUP and a totally unprincipled PM.....

 

Johnson has achieved in 12 months what the IRA have been trying to do for decades......Ireland is on the road to unification.

[gamini]

the DUPcannot deny the fact that Northern Ireland voted to stay in the EU.so it should accept that it has done so in some respects.

[Thingamabob]

Most Northern Irish I've spoken to think they've got the best of both worlds.

[Pedrogaz]

Time to carve up this absurd situation. Reunite Ireland and separate from the rest of the UK. WE also need to sort out this nonsense with Scotland and Wales. Reverse devolution which has added a layer of complexity and cost to government with non added benefit for the nation as a whole.

[ukrules]

One day the money will stop, lets see just how willing the south is to pay the fees.

[Pilotman]

good

[Pilotman]

1 hour ago, Thingamabob said:

Most Northern Irish I've spoken to think they've got the best of both worlds.

They have and its got to stop.  They are nothing special, any more than any other region of the UK  and should not be treated as such. 

[Pilotman]

8 hours ago, cmarshall said:

The demographic tide is against the DUP.  It's only a matter of time until Ireland is united.  Brexit only will only speed it up

now that would be a good result. 

[Surelynot]

Just now, Pilotman said:

now that would be a good result. 

I agree, but we will then see the UVF take over from where the IRA left off.

[ukrules]

5 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

I agree, but we will then see the UVF take over from where the IRA left off.

This would be a problem for an independent NI or whatever it becomes.

 

To make it clear : someone elses problem.

[CorpusChristie]

1 hour ago, Thingamabob said:

Most Northern Irish I've spoken to think they've got the best of both worlds.

 

  And only 57 % of (Southern) Irish actually want unification with the North .

[Pilotman]

2 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

  And only 57 % of (Southern) Irish actually want unification with the North .

I bet they don't, who wants that trouble on their hands. 

[Surelynot]

23 minutes ago, ukrules said:

This would be a problem for an independent NI or whatever it becomes.

 

To make it clear : someone elses problem.

Independence or unification is still a long way off......and in the meantime it will be 'our' problem.

[Mavideol]

10 hours ago, webfact said:

We've been let down and indeed betrayed by the prime minister who promised us there would be no border down the Irish Sea."

and they believed Boris  ????????????????????

[Mavideol]

4 hours ago, gamini said:

the DUPcannot deny the fact that Northern Ireland voted to stay in the EU.so it should accept that it has done so in some respects.

and so did Scotland but down in London they didn't care, it was not in their best interests to care, as long as their pockets get filled up..... Brexit did accomplish something, NI and Scotland to be soon independent.released from the shackles of London

[Mavideol]

42 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

  And only 57 % of (Southern) Irish actually want unification with the North .

at least it's more then the Brexiters had for their fake/misleading vote

[Mavideol]

there is a funny smell in the air, smells like trouble on it's way to the UK,  started with Scotland now NI.... 555

[CorpusChristie]

3 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

at least it's more then the Brexiters had for their fake/misleading vote

 

  Yes, you believe polls/voting when you agree with them , but dont believe polls/votes when you disagree with them .

[Mavideol]

5 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

  Yes, you believe polls/voting when you agree with them , but dont believe polls/votes when you disagree with them .

really??? how's that, care to explain

[CorpusChristie]

4 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

really??? how's that, care to explain

 

  You claimed that the Brexit vote was misleading/fake , (it was nothing of the sort) and you are against Brexit.

You believe the 57 % Irish poll , and I assume you are in favour of Irish unification 

[rott]

2 hours ago, Thingamabob said:

Most Northern Irish I've spoken to think they've got the best of both worlds.

In what way.? 

[rott]

9 hours ago, herfiehandbag said:

They will find little sympathy. I cannot speak for the Scots or the Welsh, but I suspect that many of the English are, if not fed up with, certainly bored with the biggotted intransigent front put up by the Northern Irish Unionist/Protestant community.

That does not equate with support for or enthusiasm for Sinn Fein.  For the last century we have propped up their artificial state with blood and treasure, and they have never really made any effort to resolve their differences. Marching around in ill fitting scruffy uniforms banging big drums and shouting "<deleted> the Pope" outside Catholic Churches, or murdering police men are hardly "cultural traditions". A plague on both their houses. 

The self-righteous and sanctimonious outpourings of the truly ignorant. 

[rott]

If the Irish Republic was such a wonderful place, Irish Republicans in the six counties would have moved there in droves. 

But they preferred to stay where they were or move to mainland UK, or even the USA. 

[Sujo]

4 minutes ago, rott said:

If the Irish Republic was such a wonderful place, Irish Republicans in the six counties would have moved there in droves. 

But they preferred to stay where they were or move to mainland UK, or even the USA. 

Well thats a bit silly. I was born in the north and would prefer it united. Where i chose to live is irrelevant.

[Sujo]

1 hour ago, Pilotman said:

I bet they don't, who wants that trouble on their hands. 

It will happen. Irish from the north. As i am, and irish from the south will always want a united country. It just has to be worked out.