Bitcoin or Gold?

[ukrules]

49 minutes ago, donnacha said:

embracing Bitcoin rather than, say, Dogecoin, because a well-known coin is less likely to get them fired.

The old Cisco / IBM argument - never failed back in the day!

 

[donnacha]

Just now, ukrules said:

The old Cisco / IBM argument - never failed back in the day!

 

Exactly the right analogy and, just as it led to IBM dominating computers for decades, it gives Bitcoin serious weight.

 

[Neeranam]

5 hours ago, ukrules said:

 

I would suggest leaving as much of it as possible in Bitcoin which often has a larger return than 8%. Why move it?

 

What would you suggest if someone bought in at a dollar cost average of $5,000 and they have X10 their money, gaining enough to buy a nice house with swimming pool in Hua Hin or Phuket? This is beyond their wildest dreams, having only an average house in Isarn. 

Sell half and wait or take the cash and enjoy a new life? Get their kids into an international school or wait? 

Maybe sell their altcoins and keep the Bitcoin? 

 

[donnacha]

3 hours ago, Neeranam said:

What would you suggest if someone bought in at a dollar cost average of $5,000 and they have X10 their money

I don't see how the price you paid is relevant. What matters, when deciding to sell an asset, is whether you think it is going up or down relative to its value today.

I believe we are on track for 200k this year, with most of the highs along the way copper-fastened by the entry of companies and institutional investors seeking to hedge against the devaluation of the dollar and, therefore, not selling their Bitcoins when it hits highs. This means we are less likely to see the steep falls we saw after past highs.

Look at the shape of the recent growth compared to the previous high in December 2017. Without the inflow of institutional investors, the fall after the high of 41k in January would have continued right down to 20k but, instead, it reversed at 30k and now we are back up around a new high of 48k.

As all these new Bitcoin ETFs are made available to the public, it is likely there will be a lot of news stories about Bitcoin breaking 50k for the first time and shining a spotlight on the ETFs. That will drive more first-time buyers, probably pushing the price to 60k within the next few weeks and easing the lingering doubts of the institutional investors. There, at 60k, the price will then stay for a month or two until the next crisis pushes it up again. There will be several growth spurts throughout the year, eventually taking us to 200k.

This is a unique year, money is being printed at unprecedented volumes all over the world. This is the year that Bitcoin was designed for. If you had the foresight to get into it in the past, before we knew the pandemic was going to happen, choosing to get out now, before the consequences of Covid fully manifest, is nuts.

Back in March, I strongly urged members here to grab Bitcoin while it was at 5k. Even at 50k, it is still the best investment around because, again, this is a completely unique moment in economic history. I am mildly stunned that everyone doesn't see this.

 

[Neeranam]

26 minutes ago, donnacha said:

I don't see how the price you paid is relevant. What matters, when deciding to sell an asset, is whether you think it is going up or down relative to its value today.

Interesting view. I have a target, x10 my initial investment. The worst case scenario of selling here is that I sold too early but got early retirement and a nice new house, nothing to be scoffed at. This has already happened in BTC but not all my altcoins. In Jan 18, XRP went to $3.40, x20 from when I bought it and I held on, hoping for more(greed). It crashed 90%. I agree that things are different today and do have a penciled plan. I think that selling my altcoins in increments, 5/10% until I think the Bull Run is over, then sell the lot. I've already sold 5% and with the $T, I used half to invest in BTC. So basically, I am taking half the profits from the Alts. I'm also going to take some profits from BTC if it goes to 53k and 64k. 

 

 

[donnacha]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Interesting view. I have a target, x10 my initial investment. This would allow me early retirement, nothing to be scoffed at. This has already happened in BTC but not all my altcoins. In Jan 18, XRP went to $3.40, x20 from when I bought it and I held on, hoping for more(greed). It crashed 90%. I agree that things are different today and do have a penciled plan. I think that selling my altcoins in increments, 5/10% until I think the Bull Run is over, then sell the lot. I've already sold 5% and with the $T, I used half to invest in BTC. So basically, I am taking half the profits from the Alts. I'm also going to take some profits from BTC if it goes to 53k and 64k. 

When you use words like "greed" I get the sense you feel it is somehow wrong to make more than what you consider to be a reasonable amount of money, 10x or whatever.

There will be times in life when your luck is bad, and others when your luck is good. You deserve your good luck as much as anyone else. Your plans to chip off parts of your investment as the price rises may feel sensible, but it shows that you are not operating according to any sort of logical thesis, but what appears to be a strangely misplaced sense of guilt at hitting the jackpot.

My thesis has been that, for fundamental economic reasons, Bitcoin will continue gaining in value this year. If you believe that, you don't remove any of your investment, you ride the wave. We deserve to these millions because we correctly understood why Bitcoin was important.

If your thesis is that it will not continue rising, or that there may be better investments, you should reverse out of Bitcoin entirely.

As for alt-coins, they are mostly nonsense. All the alts will benefit from the greater attention focused upon crypto as Bitcoin climbs this year but, apart from short-lived spurts, none will have the same sustained rise because the institutional investors, and most members of the public, have no interest in anything but Bitcoin.

 

[Barnabe]

1 hour ago, donnacha said:

As for alt-coins, they are mostly nonsense. All the alts will benefit from the greater attention focused upon crypto as Bitcoin climbs this year but, apart from short-lived spurts, none will have the same sustained rise because the institutional investors, and most members of the public, have no interest in anything but Bitcoin.

I agree for all altcoins except Ethereum.
 

It has a clear use case right now and in the future, so I expect it to keep growing (in price and usage) at a huge pace.

 

All the other alts either try to imitate Bitcoin or Ethereum.

 

I believe a lot of investment will also flow into Ethereum as Bitcoin picks up. Additionally, the investors will be using the Ethereum network without realising, as all stablecoins run on it. Future on chain derivatives will also too.

 

[donnacha]

11 hours ago, Barnabe said:

I agree for all altcoins except Ethereum.

I hold some Ethereum and very almost included it alongside Bitcoin in my explanation but decided not to for fear of making it less clear to beginners.
 

 

11 hours ago, Barnabe said:

I believe a lot of investment will also flow into Ethereum as Bitcoin picks up.

Yes, I think it will. All coins will benefit from the increased focus on crypto, but the main long-term beneficiaries, by far, will be Bitcoin and Ethereum.

This is a Coke and Pepsi situation - there are many colas but the market really only has room for two giants. In terms of public perception, however, Bitcoin is far more dominant than Ethereum and, regardless of functionality, that is what will drive increased values this year. I believe the rise of Bitcoin will significantly outpace the rise of Ethereum, but I will hang onto a few hundred just in case.

 

 

[Heng]

Looks like we're breaking $50k on Valentine's Day.    ????

[Neeranam]

On 2/12/2021 at 2:53 PM, Barnabe said:

All the other alts either try to imitate Bitcoin or Ethereum.

Although I bought some ETH, I'm big on coins that could and probably will overtake ETH, Polkadot, ADA, LINK and Uniswap.

A great thing about Polkadot, I get 12% on Kraken, with no ties. 

[Leaver]

12 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Although I bought some ETH, I'm big on coins that could and probably will overtake ETH, Polkadot, ADA, LINK and Uniswap.

A great thing about Polkadot, I get 12% on Kraken, with no ties. 

 

There's something like 195 countries in the world.  Many with their own currency.  Sure, the EU, and others, share a common currency, but there's still quite a few different currencies around the world.

 

I have no problem with crypto.  Indeed, I have some myself.  However, it's probably going to get ridiculous in the future with the amount of crypto offerings. 

 

Who knows, 20 years into the future, maybe we all have our own individual crypto, just like our own company structure.  

 

Who knows where crypto will lead to?   

[Neeranam]

On 1/5/2021 at 3:31 PM, Neeranam said:

Gold - $1943

Btc- $30,500

 

At the time the poll was made. 

Let's revisit in the future. 

 

I'm surprised that gold leads the poll. 

 

Gold - $1824    -6%

Btc- $48,500    +59%

 

6 weeks on, I'm not surprised at all that bitcoin is where it is but am with gold. 

Why is the gold price falling? 

Why did so many here choose gold? Would you still buy gold?

 

 

[Neeranam]

On 1/5/2021 at 10:03 AM, gyps said:

Hard to make large profits when one coin is $33,000. But, I had an opportunity at $9,000 a few months ago. Oh well!

It's not too late! 

[Surelynot]

6 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Gold - $1824    -6%

Btc- $48,500    +59%

 

6 weeks on, I'm not surprised at all that bitcoin is where it is but am with gold. 

Why is the gold price falling? 

Why did so many here choose gold? Would you still buy gold?

 

 

Eggs and baskets......is the 'golden' rule.

[david555]

31 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Gold - $1824    -6%

Btc- $48,500    +59%

 

6 weeks on, I'm not surprised at all that bitcoin is where it is but am with gold. 

Why is the gold price falling? 

Why did so many here choose gold? Would you still buy gold?

 

 

Please let gold  fall more ...,

as i would like to buy more ....as i see it as security , not a more gain  as bitcoin people hoping .

 

Short said i  like to secure the value in paper money  i have ,by using gold .....to anticipate  things to come for paying economic disasters eg."Covid taxation  devaluation"  ....or do you really think world government's go pay that .... NO way !....we go pay that ...if not already 

 

They can not print Gold nor by keystrokes 

[Surelynot]

Just now, david555 said:

Please let gold  fall more ...,

as i would like to buy more

ßloody wife is nagging me...Valentine's day blah, blah.....I told her now is the time to sell all your gold.....that went down well.

[Seeall]

3 hours ago, Neeranam said:

It's not too late! 

are u sleeping?   u can buy parts thereof.... serious?

[Seeall]

2 minutes ago, Seeall said:

are u sleeping?   u can buy parts thereof.... serious?

also can trade CFDS of anything.... up and down....... done it for 13  years...

[Seeall]

On 1/5/2021 at 10:03 AM, gyps said:

Hard to make large profits when one coin is $33,000. But, I had an opportunity at $9,000 a few months ago. Oh well!

can partially buy .... or even CFD short term

[Seeall]

Very interesting topic, and more so for us expats all ver the world, hows this for thought:

 

Have a broker in TH and one in wherever, both you have a normal bank (or granny can carry the cash),

 

1/ you buy BTC in TH then send it to yourself in Farangland and cashout there....

 

2/ The other way too

 

here is the interesting part and I feel I saw something on it somewhere...  if not it will come anyway:

 

a broker that has outlests in each country, perhaps a larger one that due to more transactions can aborb the cost of Fiat to crypto...

 

I think this will be big...

 

Thanks all, keep up the input... (tired of all the BS marketing lies and hidden facts, makes this group great)

 

ps... anyone found what they beleive to be the best exchange to buy and send BTC in Thailand?

[Seeall]

2 minutes ago, Seeall said:

Very interesting topic, and more so for us expats all ver the world, hows this for thought:

 

Have a broker in TH and one in wherever, both you have a normal bank (or granny can carry the cash),

 

1/ you buy BTC in TH then send it to yourself in Farangland and cashout there....

 

2/ The other way too

 

here is the interesting part and I feel I saw something on it somewhere...  if not it will come anyway:

 

a broker that has outlests in each country, perhaps a larger one that due to more transactions can aborb the cost of Fiat to crypto...

 

I think this will be big...

 

Thanks all, keep up the input... (tired of all the BS marketing lies and hidden facts, makes this group great)

 

ps... anyone found what they beleive to be the best exchange to buy and send BTC in Thailand?

 

AH, another thing... has anyone anywhere heard of anything regarding sroring your BTC and gaining some interest?

[fdsa]

12 minutes ago, Seeall said:

1/ you buy BTC in TH then send it to yourself in Farangland and cashout there....

 

2/ The other way too

1.5/  revenue department: "where did you get that money from? plz pay tax"

1.6/ revenue department: "oh wait, you sold cryptocurrency? sorry, cryptos are illegal in this farangland, plz go to jail"

[fdsa]

8 minutes ago, Seeall said:

AH, another thing... has anyone anywhere heard of anything regarding sroring your BTC and gaining some interest?

Impossible with Bitcoin per se but possible with investment funds who trade crypto - you give them your coins and get a % of their gains.

If you don't want to give your coins to someone then take a look at "proof of stake" coins,

 

google:// masternode coins

[Seeall]

51 minutes ago, Seeall said:

 

AH, another thing... has anyone anywhere heard of anything regarding sroring your BTC and gaining some interest?

https://www.bitkub.com/  I find  world over most the sites to find out all fee, charges call them what you want, its like pulling teeth....

3/ To trasfer to anyone BTC what fees charges ALL are involved?

4/ Is there any % difference with smaller or larger amounts than in question 3?

5/ To receive BTC from someone what fees charges ALL are involved?

6/ Is there any % difference with smaller or larger amounts than in question 5?

[Seeall]

53 minutes ago, fdsa said:

1.5/  revenue department: "where did you get that money from? plz pay tax"

1.6/ revenue department: "oh wait, you sold cryptocurrency? sorry, cryptos are illegal in this farangland, plz go to jail"

1/ Never made a THB in TH.. but  brought in millions...

 

2/ If you want to play with BTC in Farangland where its illegal up to you.... I think most place its legal... would check IF I went anywhere....

[steve73]

On 2/16/2021 at 10:48 AM, david555 said:

Please let gold  fall more ...,

as i would like to buy more ....as i see it as security , not a more gain  as bitcoin people hoping .

 

Short said i  like to secure the value in paper money  i have ,by using gold .....to anticipate  things to come for paying economic disasters eg."Covid taxation  devaluation"  ....or do you really think world government's go pay that .... NO way !....we go pay that ...if not already 

 

They can not print Gold nor by keystrokes 

The trouble with gold is that there are too many "paper" contracts that are not backed by the real thing, or are not convertible into the physical metal.  This makes it all too easy for their price to be manipulated, which also affects the price of physical.  This is great when you want to buy, but not so good when you come to want to sell.  And if the SHTF these paper contract could be worthless... Remember the US$ was originally convertible into gold, but since 1971, no longer.

The beauty of Bitcoin is that ii's easy to "take delivery" into your own wallet, and this stops the manipulation of the price.  It really is a true market where the "price" is at which both the buyer is happy to buy and the seller is happy to sell...  I'm sure inevitably, paper contracts will be created which will allow the price to be more easily manipulated, but this is still a long way off,... perhaps at 10 to 100 times the current price as it gets adopted more . 

[david555]

7 hours ago, steve73 said:

The trouble with gold is that there are too many "paper" contracts that are not backed by the real thing, or are not convertible into the physical metal.  This makes it all too easy for their price to be manipulated, which also affects the price of physical.  This is great when you want to buy, but not so good when you come to want to sell.  And if the SHTF these paper contract could be worthless... Remember the US$ was originally convertible into gold, but since 1971, no longer.

The beauty of Bitcoin is that ii's easy to "take delivery" into your own wallet, and this stops the manipulation of the price.  It really is a true market where the "price" is at which both the buyer is happy to buy and the seller is happy to sell...  I'm sure inevitably, paper contracts will be created which will allow the price to be more easily manipulated, but this is still a long way off,... perhaps at 10 to 100 times the current price as it gets adopted more . 

Totally agree with first part of your post.

I would nor have any paper gold ....gold support means for me to be able to hold it in hand ....hence bitcoin is a complete no go....!As it is totally a virtual thing 

 

...each ar his own choice .... i am just waitng the crash or a giant hacking ...????

[ukrules]

1 hour ago, david555 said:

i am just waitng the crash or a giant hacking

The giant crash already happened. Why are you waiting for a crash anyway?

[Freeduhdum]

Just do a search... how many billionaires are buying bitcoin? They're not... they are buying land and gold. GO NOW AND DO A SEARCH.

[Sujo]

8 minutes ago, Freeduhdum said:

Just do a search... how many billionaires are buying bitcoin? They're not... they are buying land and gold. GO NOW AND DO A SEARCH.

Billionaires dont need money, they need to protect it.