extension of stay refused this morning in udon thani

[jensmann]

ubonjoe, udon thani refused my extension for retirement because: they want to see the incoming money in a separate bankaccount!

since 10 years i provided the embassy letter for my pension which was worth about baht 600,000, plus a bankbook of my savings account  with a balance no less than baht 200,000 and 12 x arround baht 50,000. worked good so far.

now the officer asked me to have the incoming money in a separate account. it's a new rule this year, he says.

even though i open a new account with the incoming money i have to withdraw the cost of living every month. so, at the end of the day, the new book would look like the old one. ????

finally he asked me to come back tomorrow with my wife. he wants to talk to his boss, what he can do for me???

any advice!

can you update me on this new rule (if any) please.

what the wife has to do with the retirement extansion?

thanks

[2530Ubon]

5 minutes ago, jensmann said:

finally he asked me to come back tomorrow with my wife. he wants to talk to his boss, what he can do for me???

can you update me on this new rule (if any) please.

Sounds like the tea tin is getting shaked under your nose - hope everything goes well for you.

[jackdd]

They want some tea money from you, so they make up arbitrary rules.

Call 1178, and ask them explain the rules to your local immigration officer.

[2530Ubon]

3 minutes ago, jackdd said:

They want some tea money from you, so they make up arbitrary rules.

Call 1178, and ask them explain the rules to your local immigration officer.

Don't do that in the office, but yes perhaps a call to 1178 would help - I stupidly did it in the IO about being charged 3,900 for an extension and got bitten back. My recent extension may or may not get granted (under consideration period is up on the 14th).

[ubonjoe]

The is no new rule or even a old one that states that separate accounts are needed.

[Moonlover]

This appears to be a standard requirement. The same happened to me in Sakon Nakhon. Like you @jensmannI am married, so I was able to switch to an application by marriage. That's probably what they want to discuss with your wife.

 

I was using Udon Thani for a few years and I found them quite helpful. Don't despair. ????

 

[Caldera]

Scenario#1, they want to talk to your wife to facilitate moving you to an extension based on marriage. More work for them than a retirement extension, which makes it somewhat unlikely, but I wouldn't rule it out if they genuinely want to help.

 

Scenario#2, they want to talk to your wife to facilitate "overlooking the new requirement" (in double quotes because it exists in their imagination only) and might be looking for something in return, best discussed between Thais. I find this more likely, but who knows!

 

[Pilotman]

get an agent 

[foreverlomsak]

They appear to be really trying to upset people, 4 excuses for "retirement" refusal that I can remember on.

1. Your bank account is not in this province, it needs to be in the province you live in (extension was granted provided agreed to change for next years application).

2. You've used 2 separate accounts for your 800k, only 1 account is allowed.

3. Yes I know you have 800k in the bank, but I still need proof of your income.

4. Now your income needs to be in a separate account from your balance to make up the 800k.

All 4 to my knowledge are not written down anywhere and taking into account the difficulty most seem to have with opening bank accounts, there appears to be a concerted move to push us to the use of agents even when we meet all the criteria and have done for years.

[jackdd]

9 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

get an agent 

If people give in to extortion it will just become more difficult for everybody in the future, so this should only be the very last option.

[david555]

14 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

get an agent 

would  cost him more .... as another middle man involved than direct IO boss settlement ,.... long live the 800K on bank system  .???? never a problem arise in  8 years...no headache ever and flash serviced  ,and no agent needed ...... (as i do my own " legwork" ????..)

[luckyluke]

3 minutes ago, david555 said:

would  cost him more .... as another middle man involved than direct IO boss settlement ,.... long live the 800K on bank system  .???? never a problem arise in  8 years...no headache ever and flash serviced  

 

Every system is great, till it isn't anymore.

I use 15+ years the " Retirement based on income in homeland "system, thus with an income letter.

Never had a problem, takes usually 5 minutes, waiting time my turn, not included.

Will see if still the case next week.

[david555]

28 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

 

Every system is great, till it isn't anymore.

I use 15+ years the " Retirement based on income in homeland "system, thus with an income letter.

Never had a problem, takes usually 5 minutes, waiting time my turn, not included.

Will see if still the case next week.

Yes , i remember first year i used ret. ext. , as not all money available in Thailand , i used first year the combination method , affidavit letter from Embassy  + even Pension letter with seal with pension  amount payable for life (Jomtien IO lady asked me what it was .... ,i explained her ...., " your embassy ask's ?"....  no , i just alway's show where money comes from ..... i told her , never a problem with same I.O. lady ) + a certain amount on bank .... worked fine , even no monthly transfers to show that time......we  could see the coming pensions as  same as a credit card money ....lol ..... but no more ... now  ANY money must be transferred or on bank already ......

oh! that where the good times ????..... LOS is lost Paradise in many way's....

 

But the 800K system  once you have them on Bank .....= a dream scenario ,.... besides you can always keep it halve under  the pillow for  7 months (400K ...for those who dont trust Thai banks , or fear the money stay bank when sudden dying  5555 )

[FritsSikkink]

1 hour ago, jackdd said:

They want some tea money from you, so they make up arbitrary rules.

Call 1178, and ask them explain the rules to your local immigration officer.

Don't think it is arbitrary at all. When you have it in the same account, you will use the monthly 50K twice:

1) 12 x 50K

2) keep your balance on 200K

[Tanoshi]

2 hours ago, jensmann said:

plus a bankbook of my savings account  with a balance no less than baht 200,000 and 12 x arround baht 50,000. worked good so far.

now the officer asked me to have the incoming money in a separate account. it's a new rule this year, he says.

I assume the account is in your sole name, not a joint account?

 

It sounds as though your using the combination method i.e, 200,000 maintained throughout the year and monthly overseas transfers of 50,000 baht.

If your balance fell at any time below 200,000 or one of your 12 transfers was under 50,000, then you don't qualify.

 

To confirm UJ statement, there is no such rule that states using funds and income has to be in separate accounts, however from experience at my IO the IO's are incompetent when it comes to figures and reading Passbooks. Statements are far clearer for the IO's to understand as they have credit/debit/balance columns as opposed to lines of mixed varying amounts.

It is not absolutely necessary, but putting the 200K in a 1 year Fixed Term account and transfer your monthly pension to your Savings (expenses) account has two benefits.

1. You'll get a better interest rate on the 200K.

2. It will provide clear and easy to read accounts separating the funds and income from one another for an IO.

 

As others have stated, if you have proof of 12 x overseas transfers of 50K per month, you can switch to an extension based on marriage, of which the requirement is only 40K monthly transfers.

(The combination method isn't applicable for marriage extensions).

A couple of extra documents are required for marriage extensions, the wife must attend and the application has to be approved, so you'll receive a 30 day 'under consideration' stamp and return for the extension stamp after it's been approved.

[HashBrownHarry]

1 hour ago, foreverlomsak said:

They appear to be really trying to upset people, 4 excuses for "retirement" refusal that I can remember on.

1. Your bank account is not in this province, it needs to be in the province you live in (extension was granted provided agreed to change for next years application).

2. You've used 2 separate accounts for your 800k, only 1 account is allowed.

3. Yes I know you have 800k in the bank, but I still need proof of your income.

4. Now your income needs to be in a separate account from your balance to make up the 800k.

All 4 to my knowledge are not written down anywhere and taking into account the difficulty most seem to have with opening bank accounts, there appears to be a concerted move to push us to the use of agents even when we meet all the criteria and have done for years.

1. My bank account is not in the province where i applied for visa extension, no problem.

[Tanoshi]

2 hours ago, foreverlomsak said:

3. Yes I know you have 800k in the bank, but I still need proof of your income.

Very, very unusual to be asked for proof of income when using the 800K funds method.

 

I was, some years ago questioned as to how I afforded to live in Thailand when I presented my Fixed Term account with funds not touched for the year. I produced my Savings account book and nothing else was said.

Since then when requesting the standard letter from the bank, I ask them to detail both the Fixed term and Savings account (although I only supply evidence of the Fixed term account) just to prevent the same repeat question being asked - and they never have.

[foreverlomsak]

33 minutes ago, HashBrownHarry said:

1. My bank account is not in the province where i applied for visa extension, no problem.

should be but it wasn't for my friend, number 3 was my problem though

[foreverlomsak]

16 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Very, very unusual to be asked for proof of income when using the 800K funds method.

My belief was that it was a very inexperienced (although older) officer who had been told Embassy letters were required for "retirement", as that was his focus Embassy letters, 1 each for me and my father, despite each of us actually having well in excess of 800k.

When I asked for proof of the requirement, as it wasn't on the web site, he said he would speak to his younger colleague as soon as he was free.

Why don't we go and get lunch somewhere and come back, before we got lunch the wife's phone rang "come and get passports all fixed".

That why I said inexperienced as most current officers I come across now are so full of themselves and their authority (and then supported right or wrong by the next level) I would not have gotten away with asking for proof they would just have shouted me down, and sent me away with a flea in my ear to get the letters.

So in a way I was lucky.

[foreverlomsak]

31 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

I was, some years ago questioned as to how I afforded to live in Thailand when I presented my Fixed Term account with funds not touched for the year. I produced my Savings account book and nothing else was said.

Since then when requesting the standard letter from the bank, I ask them to detail both the Fixed term and Savings account (although I only supply evidence of the Fixed term account) just to prevent the same repeat question being asked - and they never have.

I've had this question too, to me it's not out place in that situation, I replied I have a separate living expenses account to protect the 800K do the want to see the passbook, no no all OK. Question has never raised its head again.

[OJAS]

 

3 hours ago, jensmann said:

since 10 years i provided the embassy letter for my pension which was worth about baht 600,000, plus a bankbook of my savings account  with a balance no less than baht 200,000 and 12 x arround baht 50,000. worked good so far.

 

Not clear to me why you have felt a specific need to prove monthly income equal to c.50,000 THB in a Thai bank account on top of obtaining Embassy income confirmation letters/affidavits (assuming that your home country Embassy still provides an income confirmation service, of course). Strikes me that you may be making life unnecessarily difficult for yourself!

[sandyf]

3 hours ago, Moonlover said:

This appears to be a standard requirement. The same happened to me in Sakon Nakhon. Like you @jensmannI am married, so I was able to switch to an application by marriage. That's probably what they want to discuss with your wife.

 

I was using Udon Thani for a few years and I found them quite helpful. Don't despair. ????

 

I think there is some validity in what you say, the writing was on the wall when they gave preference to those on marriage extensions to return to Thailand.

There may well be a change in thinking and immigration would prefer for those that are married to be on a marriage extension.

[Nout]

3 hours ago, jackdd said:

If people give in to extortion it will just become more difficult for everybody in the future, so this should only be the very last option.

Given the nature of Asian Beuracracy an agent should be your first point of call to resolve these conflicts. You are not giving a lecture in Ethics accounts to John Mills. You are following local customs and trend.

[Solinvictus]

3 hours ago, foreverlomsak said:

They appear to be really trying to upset people, 4 excuses for "retirement" refusal that I can remember on.

1. Your bank account is not in this province, it needs to be in the province you live in (extension was granted provided agreed to change for next years application).

2. You've used 2 separate accounts for your 800k, only 1 account is allowed.

3. Yes I know you have 800k in the bank, but I still need proof of your income.

4. Now your income needs to be in a separate account from your balance to make up the 800k.

All 4 to my knowledge are not written down anywhere and taking into account the difficulty most seem to have with opening bank accounts, there appears to be a concerted move to push us to the use of agents even when we meet all the criteria and have done for years.

I'm not on a retirement visa but I think it couldn't be more clear given the variance and ambiguity in the requirements here from province to province....it's done on purpose.

 

At the end of the day, one thinks if it is just a result of their mismanagement or casual laid back management but after so long, it's clear they do this on purpose to continually at any instance impose new 'hurdles' or 'issues of focus.'

 

????

[Moonlover]

12 minutes ago, sandyf said:

I think there is some validity in what you say, the writing was on the wall when they gave preference to those on marriage extensions to return to Thailand.

There may well be a change in thinking and immigration would prefer for those that are married to be on a marriage extension.

That's an interesting comment. I've twice had retirement extensions knocked back even though I actually satisfied the financial requirements. Interestingly the first time was at this same office, Udon Thani.

 

On both occasions I was steered toward a marriage extension. So you could be right.

[DaLa]

 

 

I disagree, although I accept that for some people the use of an agent is in fact 100% necessary. However ethics do come into it, firstly anyone using an agent is then sanctioning the obvious corruption. It then fuels as jacdd stated the use of agents who then line the pockets of corrupt IO’s and ultimately this means those of us that are here abiding by the rules lose out because we too then have to start using agents.

 

My ‘first point of call’ is my wife who I would rather give the money to resolve the issue than an agent. Funnily enough when she realise that if I leave the country my cash goes with me she has a far greater incentive.

[foreverlomsak]

8 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

Don't think it is arbitrary at all. When you have it in the same account, you will use the monthly 50K twice:

1) 12 x 50K

2) keep your balance on 200K

That's the point of the OP they are saying now income must be in one account and the balance in another

[quake]

21 hours ago, Pilotman said:

get an agent 

Don't give con men or scam artists money. 

you make the problem worse, for us all.   101 Thailand.

[Pilotman]

4 hours ago, quake said:

Don't give con men or scam artists money. 

you make the problem worse, for us all.   101 Thailand.

my agent is neither of those things, but saves me a lot of hassle dealing with inconsistent and even corrupt IOs. He knows more about their immigration law than they do and knows the people that matter if problems arise.  Its a no brainer to me to use such a person  

[foreverlomsak]

19 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

A couple of extra documents are required for marriage extensions, the wife must attend and the application has to be approved, so you'll receive a 30 day 'under consideration' stamp and return for the extension stamp after it's been approved.

and 4 color photo's of the 2 of you inside and outside house showing the house number printed 2 per page

and attendance of 2 witnesses (in some places at the IO and during the home visit)

and home visit at 2,000 baht at your expense (some are informed generally through wife no pay no extension)

and all to be provided in duplicate

and I've probably missed something as I'm on retirement now but I used to be on marriage until the IO decided he would no longer accept that I'm married, despite copies of KR2 and KR3, and said retirement or no extension, all I had to do was get a medical at the local state hospital all the other papers were there.