Lexus Rx Or Bmw X3

[ozymandious]

RX350 AWD

Or

BMW X3

In your opinions which vehicle has the advantage?

For both models I'm looking at AWD or 4x4 to go when there's no roads.

I've looked at both online at various car comparison sites and they're very comparable in price and size.

The Lexus edges out the BMW in almost every category, but only just.

They are the same price here in Thailand.

One big consideration I'm pondering is that the Lexus only comes in a gasoline model while the BMW comes the same or as a turbo diesel. And I'm big on diesel engines for efficacy and consumption.

(for this comparison I'm ignoring the Hybrid RX for import duties and I'm afraid they just wouldn't know how to service it here if something went wrong)

Which will be harder to service in Thailand?

Given the above pre-amble what are your suggestions for vehicle choice.

[teejay]

Lexus, without a question. Service is better, and the quality of the X3 is really like a wanna-be Bimmer.... Have you been in an X3. It's a P.O.S.

RX without a doubt. You will be much happier. Unless you wanna get the X5, or the RR Sport... or RR Sport Supercharged.... mmmmmmm.....

[HDRIDER]

HI

The Lexus is just so nice, i would go for that one. Looks alot better to.

[lost_in_isaan]

I've driven both and owned the RX300 for the last two years. Personally I would go with the X3 as its a lot nicer to drive. I also disagree with the above poster as I reckon the X3 has the better interior as well. The interior in the RX is pretty similar to a Camry.

Servicing can be done at any Toyota dealership throughout Thailand whereas with the BMW you are restricted to the more limited number of BMW dealerships.

[solent01]

A guy I know in England had a Turbo Diesel Range Rover, which I believe is in fact the BMW engine in the X3, the power in his Range Rover was very impressive.

[Digger]

Unless something has changed in last couple of weeks, BMW do NOT use the disel engine for the X3 in Thailand. Its a 2.5l petrol engine which has just been upgraded. However saying that, you can hardly compare a X3 to a Lexus - they are different categories of vehicles. One thought in my mind is watching Jeremy Clarkson testing it on the UK's Top Gear programme and it got stuck in the mud. Hardly a great advert for a 4X4 which you want to take off road. If you want real off road capability get a Toyota Prado or otherwise if you like visiting service centres get a Land Rover Disco - the new one is still getting rave reviews and seemingly quality has vastly improved under Ford. Another idea might be the often overlooked Ford model thats imported from Australia - very cheap for what it offers. I forget the name but its not the Escape.

[ozymandious]

One thought in my mind is watching Jeremy Clarkson testing it on the UK's Top Gear programme and it got stuck in the mud.

Sorry but which model got stuck in the mud?

[Digger]

One thought in my mind is watching Jeremy Clarkson testing it on the UK's Top Gear programme and it got stuck in the mud.

Sorry but which model got stuck in the mud?

Sorry for making it clearer - it was the BMW X3 that got stuck just as he was explaining about its traction system that would focus power to any wheel with grip. End result they had to get a tractor to tow it out. Having said that, the RX is no better than the X3 for muddy conditions (which is what you mostly face in Thailand) - I a say if you need true off-road ability, go for a Toyota Prado (the sensible choice for service, resale value, quality) or Land Rover (the best product when it works, but be prepared to visit the service centre on a frequent basis and used values plummet, which actually makes them an attractive option if you can find one about 18 months old). Demo models of the Land Rover are easy to obtain and would be around the price of a new X3. Also been reading great reviews of the new Freelander - however I dont think its due here for another year.

The new X3 though has a fantastic engine - they have lifted the horse power up by about 40hp to circa 250 and its a lot more powerfull and flexible than the engine it replaces. Basically that was done in line with the mid life revisions that have recently been lauched - lots of executive models available at BMW showrooms now which are the old model, but again, attractively priced by BMW standards but if you went with the BMW I'd pay the extra and go for the new model. Having said all that, one that took my eye was the Nissan Murrano(spelling) which is same price range and more of a 'muscular' 4x4 than the Lexus RX - looks great in the burnt orange colour on the Nissan website.

Edited May 11, 2007 by Digger

[solent01]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't both these vehicals come with road tyres, if you intend to go off roading, you need off road tyres, did the test vehical that Top Gear tested have off road tyres? The X3 has diff lock as you said, and provides power the the wheels that have grip, does the Lexus have this also?

I operate a number of earth moving machinery, I am often off road running fuel here there and everywhere, the tool I use for this job is a Toyota Vigo 3 ltr 4X4, it also has diff lock, I have been in many sticky situations, but with the aid of the Maxxis Mudd Pluggers, I have yet to get stuck.

Edit

I was recently running 400 ltrs of derv to a site we are working that required us to drive across a sandy ridge, as I was making my way across, the sand beneath my off side front wheel slipped and we grounded out, the Vigo had no problem getting back out, we did have to get one of our diggers over to make the track good though so we could continue.

Edited May 11, 2007 by solent01

[teejay]

RX has a good reliability track record, and resale value is higher compared to the bimmers....

Please don't buy the X3, it's near the bottom of the range for BMWs and I consider buyers of the X3 of the same type that buy the Mercedes A-Class for, what 2million, when It's just a Honda Jazz...

RX all of the way, seriously, Lexux builds quality.... If you were moving up the BMW range though, I would fully recommend the 520d as that is a torque beast and is rather beautiful with a nice set of wheels...

RX. But the final decision is up to you and your tastes... just remember my Merc A-class/Honda Jazz comment.... you don't wanna be one of those guys do you?

Agree with above poster about the interiour of the RX a little similar to the Camry, but it still does ok... and the reliability of the machine and ergonomics of it all are far and away better than the X3. The interior of the X3 reminds me of a condo show flat: looks nice at a glance, but if you look closely it's just cheap materials made to look nice....

Maybe consider buying a 2nd hand X5 instead?

[dominique355]

I always like to comment in the British magazine "Autocar".

X3: Ride is firm and some interior materials look and feel cheap.

RX 300: Sophisticated, smooth, on-road biased 4x4, Petrol RX thirsty, petrol-electric hybrid

400h both fast and frugal for a 4x4, a phenomenon.

But why spend so much when there is a Toyota Fortuner? Ugly, I know, but look at the price.

The problem with most SUV 4x4 is that they are really bad off-road. If off-road is crucial, consider an Land Rover Discovery. Autocar: "Third generation Discovery has all the off-road abilities and its forebears and now is pretty good on the road too. But it's big an heavy."

[lingnoi34]

Take it from a German guy and go with the Lex...much better reliability!

LN

[Plus]

Local X3 has only 2.5l, 192 hp engine. Local RX has only 3l engine and cost a bit more, but you can get imported 2.4l Harrier (as it is sold in Japan) instead and save a million.

[chanchao]

I sometimes look at RX drivers and wonder: WHY did you spend all that money when you could just have picked up a Fortuner.. or three.

Especially if off-roading is a consideration.

So my answer: NEITHER!

Just driving it out of the showroom it instantly depreciates by pretty much the price of a small passenger car.. No thanks.

How much for the Land Rover Discovery? Same league?

[highchol]

Cant add anything much to whats been said except to highlight:-

save yourself a fortune and buy a fortuner

however if you do realy need the extra off road capability then go for the prado.

The Prado is some vehicle. Its the only time my head and heart have ever been in sync with any vehicle i have owned.

[nikster]

chanchao - well it depends. if 1M vs 4M doesn't matter to you, you'll buy the 4M car even if it's not 4 times as good. Why would you want 3 Fortuners?

I'd suggest to test drive them both and take the one that feels nicer. They are both not serious 4WDs, you'd have to get Landcruiser for that. I would think the X3 would have better handling. Lexus can't be beat for quality so if that's important to you, go with the RX. They are far and away leaders in initial quality for the last 10?+ years, ahead of #2 parent company Toyota with others like BMW, Mercedes etc far behind.

Land Rover is a wannabe - yes it has serious 4WD options but sadly, half the time they don't work. A friend of mine was quite surprised when his ruggedy outdoorsy brand new Land Rover broke down in the car wash. It had gotten wet...

Personally, if you'd get an X3 why not an X5? X3 is a bit of a wannabe X5. I am generally a big fan of BMW just because they have the best ride/handling. They are fun to drive. But I do care about 1M vs 4M baht so, no, I would not buy an X3 or RX for the same money that would in other countries get you a Porsche 911...

On a 4WD note: A serious 4WD has diff locks for front and rear. I don't know if the X3 has a diff lock but even if it does most likely it's just a center diff lock and not front/rear. A permanent AWD system needs front, rear, and center diff locks. My Fortuner has only the center diff lock - it's available with an additional rear diff lock in other countries but - my guess - not in Thailand. If anyone knows where to get it let me know I would love to have that.

For part time AWD this is all much easier and most just engage diff lock as soon as you switch into AWD mode, e.g. Vigo/Triton etc. That's why you cant drive these on asphalt in 4WD mode.

Edited May 17, 2007 by nikster

[chanchao]

> My Fortuner has only the center diff lock - it's available with an additional rear diff lock in other countries but - my guess - not in Thailand.

It's VERY easily fitted, as the axle is the same as the Toyota pick-up. Ask any 4x4 shop.

They do have Limited-slip installed though, don't they? Not quite as good as a proper locker of course, but for just about any vehicle you want to use for serious off-roading you'd want to visit a 4x4 shop.

[teejay]

I sometimes look at RX drivers and wonder: WHY did you spend all that money when you could just have picked up a Fortuner.. or three.

Especially if off-roading is a consideration.

So my answer: NEITHER!

Why don't I return my Bulgari watch and buy a Casio, when they both can tell me the time? How can i have been so stupid all of these years?

I'm sick of this line of reasoning....

As per the original question, go with the RX. Most of the people giving you opinions here don't even/can't even afford a car that expensive(look at the ads, "selling my ford aspire 1993 99,000 baht, runs great, etc. etc.), so they preach to you about the greatness of their 1 mil baht awesome-totally-boring-everyone-has-one-boring-Camry-of-wannabe-SUVS-p.o.s-Fortuner.... I've drvien both the RX and the X3, get the RX, it is a fine machine. And Bulgari makes a fine watch.

Edited May 17, 2007 by teejay

[moo9]

Lexus? What is Lexus?

If I would spend money like this, I certainly would not spend for a Lexus.

But cars suck in rough terrain anyway. Those are true wannabees for city rides. Nothing in the mud.

I bet you could not follow my Vigo 4x4 at all...

Up to you, but at that price I would prefer a BMW sticker anyway.

[teejay]

Maybe he doesn't have to drive out in the mud on a farm out in issarn like you do. So who cares? Drive your Vigo, I'm sure it impresses the village people.

[palm]

Maybe he doesn't have to drive out in the mud on a farm out in issarn like you do. So who cares? Drive your Vigo, I'm sure it impresses the village people.

Do you guys have the prices of the higher-end 4x4s and how much of it is tax?

I'm still thinking what to buy, but am not keen on imports because of the waste (tax).

[chanchao]

> Why don't I return my Bulgari watch and buy a Casio, when they both can tell me the time?

Seiko make some nice watches. Then for a high-end watch get at least one made by a traditional watch maker.. Bulgari is a jewellery shop that is now doing what everyone and their poodle in the luxury goods business is doing and slapping their brand on just about anything. a Bulgari brand on a watch to me means about as much as a Ferrari logo on an Acer laptop.

Lexus to me also reeks of branding, but the reason I would like one is BECAUSE of the Toyota heritage, not because the attempt to move the cars away from that brand.

There is one more issue you're not highlighting; it's not merely a matter of 'not being able to afford brand x or y', it's also the matter of the high taxation / import duty in Thailand and or paying premium for perceived brand value. I can TOTALLY see buying a BMW or Mercedes in Europe. In Thailand however, the common-sense part of my brain is too much in charge to consider a 3.5 million baht preposition where out of that 3.5 million baht, 1 million is tax and 1 million is 'brand' and 1.5 million is 'car'. So it's not so much a case of not being able to afford it as it is not wanting to piss money away on tax, (unreasonable) depreciation and perceived brand image. "Oh so you're not filthy rich after all then" you could say; well if I truly was filthy rich and things like paying mostly for tax, depreciaion and brand truly didn't matter then I wouldn't be wasting my time with a Lexus or baby beemer.

Edited May 18, 2007 by chanchao

[BackinBKK]

Chanchao,

Well Put indeed.

I've also thought that the X3's looked like cheap mini knock-offs of the sleek and sexy X5. If I were this guy, I would be looking at the RX or a 18 month old X5. Anyhow, it still gets me that you would have to pay $80,000 ++ USD for something that in the states you could pick up for around $30-35,000!

[teejay]

Like I've said before, the original poster asked for opinions between an x3 and an RX. RX wins IMO. Who cares about paying the tax if you're willing to do it and it's something you want to buy? If you want something, buy it. If you're worried about taxes, blah blah, then you prob can't afford it, so don't buy it. Easy decision.

[Plus]

From the OP:

"For both models I'm looking at AWD or 4x4 to go when there's no roads."

Who buys Lexus to go where there are no roads???

Teejay, there must be an end somewhere in your line of reasoning, or can one take Ferrari off roading if he wants and can afford it?

Lots of people recommended Prado for offroading instead of Lexus. That would make sense. But, of course, if the OP wants to go in a Lexus AND can afford it...

[teejay]

my point is what people want to do with their money is their business... if some clown wants to run his ferrari off-road, well he's nuts, but it's still his perogative... that was just my point.

Prado also sells well and is cheaper I believe. But the RX beats it in luxury... and i don't think the RX is that bad off-road as well, with a good set of tires of course....

I still recommend a used X5, let somebody else pay the depreciation hit, and you have yourself a deal in the range of the Lexus....

[mikethevigoman]

chanchao - well it depends. if 1M vs 4M doesn't matter to you, you'll buy the 4M car even if it's not 4 times as good. Why would you want 3 Fortuners?

I'd suggest to test drive them both and take the one that feels nicer. They are both not serious 4WDs, you'd have to get Landcruiser for that. I would think the X3 would have better handling. Lexus can't be beat for quality so if that's important to you, go with the RX. They are far and away leaders in initial quality for the last 10?+ years, ahead of #2 parent company Toyota with others like BMW, Mercedes etc far behind.

Land Rover is a wannabe - yes it has serious 4WD options but sadly, half the time they don't work. A friend of mine was quite surprised when his ruggedy outdoorsy brand new Land Rover broke down in the car wash. It had gotten wet...

Personally, if you'd get an X3 why not an X5? X3 is a bit of a wannabe X5. I am generally a big fan of BMW just because they have the best ride/handling. They are fun to drive. But I do care about 1M vs 4M baht so, no, I would not buy an X3 or RX for the same money that would in other countries get you a Porsche 911...

On a 4WD note: A serious 4WD has diff locks for front and rear. I don't know if the X3 has a diff lock but even if it does most likely it's just a center diff lock and not front/rear. A permanent AWD system needs front, rear, and center diff locks. My Fortuner has only the center diff lock - it's available with an additional rear diff lock in other countries but - my guess - not in Thailand. If anyone knows where to get it let me know I would love to have that.

For part time AWD this is all much easier and most just engage diff lock as soon as you switch into AWD mode, e.g. Vigo/Triton etc. That's why you cant drive these on asphalt in 4WD mode.

Edited May 18, 2007 by mikethevigoman

[mikethevigoman]

chanchao - well it depends. if 1M vs 4M doesn't matter to you, you'll buy the 4M car even if it's not 4 times as good. Why would you want 3 Fortuners?

I'd suggest to test drive them both and take the one that feels nicer. They are both not serious 4WDs, you'd have to get Landcruiser for that. I would think the X3 would have better handling. Lexus can't be beat for quality so if that's important to you, go with the RX. They are far and away leaders in initial quality for the last 10?+ years, ahead of #2 parent company Toyota with others like BMW, Mercedes etc far behind.

Land Rover is a wannabe - yes it has serious 4WD options but sadly, half the time they don't work. A friend of mine was quite surprised when his ruggedy outdoorsy brand new Land Rover broke down in the car wash. It had gotten wet...

Personally, if you'd get an X3 why not an X5? X3 is a bit of a wannabe X5. I am generally a big fan of BMW just because they have the best ride/handling. They are fun to drive. But I do care about 1M vs 4M baht so, no, I would not buy an X3 or RX for the same money that would in other countries get you a Porsche 911...

On a 4WD note: A serious 4WD has diff locks for front and rear. I don't know if the X3 has a diff lock but even if it does most likely it's just a center diff lock and not front/rear. A permanent AWD system needs front, rear, and center diff locks. My Fortuner has only the center diff lock - it's available with an additional rear diff lock in other countries but - my guess - not in Thailand. If anyone knows where to get it let me know I would love to have that.

For part time AWD this is all much easier and most just engage diff lock as soon as you switch into AWD mode, e.g. Vigo/Triton etc. That's why you cant drive these on asphalt in 4WD mode.

Horses for courses, if you want to go off road on a regular basis dont buy either, they will become very secondnhand very quick, no grip, no ground clearance, 4 wheel drive on them is for mounting curbs in Chelsea and the likes, Vigo or Prada, far better, ignore the badges ...Land rovers are sooooo good off road, they are wasted on the road,reliability is still iffy,,,

simon_malaysia.bmp

Edited May 18, 2007 by mikethevigoman

[mikethevigoman]

I sometimes look at RX drivers and wonder: WHY did you spend all that money when you could just have picked up a Fortuner.. or three.

Especially if off-roading is a consideration.

So my answer: NEITHER!

Just driving it out of the showroom it instantly depreciates by pretty much the price of a small passenger car.. No thanks.

How much for the Land Rover Discovery? Same league?

Its all relevant to your budget/spending limit,if these 2 vehicles are comparable in price go for the lexus in my opinion, you know you wont have any problems and the badge has top cred,..but for off roading read my other comments,,, Edited May 18, 2007 by mikethevigoman

[teejay]

Land rovers are sooooo good off road, they are wasted on the road,reliability is still iffy,,,

SO SO TRUE.... for those who haven't driven one off-road, they are in for a big surprise.... they can do amazing things, totally amazing... granted, maintenance and quality issues are being worked on, it won't be as reliable as an Altis, but if you wanna go off-road, don't take a taxi.

To OP, there is a discovery for sale on the expat motors website for 1.85 if i recall correctly.... decent machine although i prefer the range rovers myself (not current version, but the 4.0/4.6HSE versions.... great cars, and the road presence can't be beat)....

To clarify, I drive neither of the cars mentioned.... I drive SAABs and always will.... the classic is my favorite, so it's not all about the badge for me as some may think, but it's just about what you like personally.