Scottish nationalists set for record majority, boosting independence push

[katatonic]

6 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Today's ST front page looks glorious. 

I don't think it's much of a leap in imagination to suggest that it's more pro-Marxism than anti-union. As well as social media indoctrination. Just my two-penn'orth.

[herfiehandbag]

16 hours ago, vogie said:

So not to put a too finer point on it, you was voting to leave the EU. I just get the feeling sometimes when we exchange posts that it's like asking Joseph Stalin to become a Liberal. ????

Coming as I do from an area of England which has for many years been what may be described, (in local politics terms), as a "Liberal Democrat Fiefdom" your simile is not that far fetched!

[transam]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

Union in crisis as polls reveal voters want referendum on Scottish independence and united Ireland

Saturday January 23 2021, 6.00pm GMT, The Sunday Times

The UK is facing a constitutional crisis that will strain the Union as new polls reveal a majority of voters in Scotland and Northern Ireland want referendums on the break-up of Britain.

 

A four-country survey we commissioned, based on separate polls in Scotland, Northern Ireland, England and Wales, also found that the sense of British identity that once bound the country together is disintegrating.

Hmmmmm, Poll dancing again, now come on, you had your vote, YOU lost, get over it, concentrate on sorting your SNP out, or better still, vote a party in that get results for the populace, not just shield beaters.....

[RuamRudy]

Just now, transam said:

Hmmmmm, Poll dancing again, now come on, you had your vote, YOU lost, get over it, concentrate on sorting your SNP out, or better still, vote a party in that get results for the populace, not just shield beaters.....

 

When the alternatives are as dire as those on offer, it's clear that the only palatable option is to start again with a blank sheet of paper. 

[transam]

1 hour ago, Phulublub said:

Are you English?  If yes, please try and answer the question.

 

PH

Nothing to answer,  just phulublub.....????

[transam]

2 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

When the alternatives are as dire as those on offer, it's clear that the only palatable option is to start again with a blank sheet of paper. 

So you don't blame your current ruling party then, oh well, never mind eh...????

[RuamRudy]

7 minutes ago, katatonic said:

I don't think it's much of a leap in imagination to suggest that it's more pro-Marxism than anti-union. As well as social media indoctrination. Just my two-penn'orth.

 

If you believe that, then I am not sure that you actually understand what Marxism is. 

[herfiehandbag]

11 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Academic research has shown that while most Scots voted to leave, their slender majority was overturned by the other voters.

I wonder how they came to that conclusion - given that : 1) it was a secret ballot, and 2) not all Scots have a "Scottish name". There are plenty of "Patels, Singhs, Khans, Kowalcyzks, Smiths, Owens and O'Reillies who were born in Scotland!

[RuamRudy]

Just now, transam said:

So you don't blame your current ruling party then, oh well, never mind eh...????

 

They are leading Holyrood because the public looked at what was on offer and felt that they were most representative of their values. It's pretty simple when you think about it. 

[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, herfiehandbag said:

I wonder how they came to that conclusion - given that : 1) it was a secret ballot, and 2) not all Scots have a "Scottish name". There are plenty of "Patels, Singhs, Khans, Kowalcyzks, Smiths, Owens and O'Reillies who were born in Scotland!

 

I have linked to the paper many times - it's in this thread too, I believe.

 

Alternatively, you could Google 'Edinburgh University Scottish Independence Referendum breakdown' if their methodology is of interest to you. 

[vogie]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

You didn't criticise it - you, once again, made an incorrect statement which I, once again, corrected. 

Then again, as you show so frequently on these boards, your confidence in your own understanding of Scotland and Scottish politics is massively overblown, so it is of no great surprise that you regurgitate Daily Express style nonsense so frequently. 

Anything that you don't agree with always gets turned into an incorrect statement, Mrs Sturgeon and the Scottish media is doing a great job on their disciples. 

Edited January 24, 2021 by vogie

[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

Anything that you don't agree with always gets turned into an incorrect statement, Mrs Sturgeon and the Scottish media is doing a great job on their disciples. 

 

It's not that I don't agree with your statement, it's that it's patently ridiculous. I even explained why it is ridiculous but still you insist. What more can I say? 

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

It's not that I don't agree with your statement, it's that it's patently ridiculous. I even explained why it is ridiculous but still you insist. What more can I say? 

You say it best when you say nothing at all. ????

[herfiehandbag]

13 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

I have linked to the paper many times - it's in this thread too, I believe.

 

Alternatively, you could Google 'Edinburgh University Scottish Independence Referendum breakdown' if their methodology is of interest to you. 

I did (Google). The document offered by Edinburgh University - ‘Direct Democracy in the United Kingdom: Reflections from the Scottish Independence Referendum’ Stephen Tierney - barely mentioned the extent of the franchise, and made no mention of the result being decided by "non Scotts" residents of Scotland!

[RuamRudy]

16 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

I did (Google). The document offered by Edinburgh University - ‘Direct Democracy in the United Kingdom: Reflections from the Scottish Independence Referendum’ Stephen Tierney - barely mentioned the extent of the franchise, and made no mention of the result being decided by "non Scotts" residents of Scotland!

 

The Scottish Question Six Months On

 

It is a pdf file rather than a Web page. See page 7:

52.7% of those born in Scotland voted to leave the UK. 

72. 1% of those born in England, Wales or NI voted to stay in the UK. 

57.1% of those born elsewhere voted to stay in the UK. 

[transam]

4 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

The Scottish Question Six Months On

 

It is a pdf file rather than a Web page. See page 7:

52.7% of those born in Scotland voted to leave the UK. 

72. 1% of those born in England, Wales or NI voted to stay in the UK. 

57.1% of those born elsewhere voted to stay in the UK. 

Then we can see who has the most sense, eh..........

 

 

Edited January 24, 2021 by transam

[NanLaew]

2 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

The Scottish Question Six Months On

 

It is a pdf file rather than a Web page. See page 7:

52.7% of those born in Scotland voted to leave the UK. 

72. 1% of those born in England, Wales or NI voted to stay in the UK. 

57.1% of those born elsewhere voted to stay in the UK. 

 

And then there was me, a wee bit of the Scottish-born diaspora that was denied ANY vote by that grubby, attention-seeking Salmond and his ilk because he knew full well that the majority of Scots residing overseas would also kick his grandiose vision of a Darien regained well into touch.

 

Oh damn!... now see what you've made me do? I've spilt ma bloody tea!

[NanLaew]

5 minutes ago, transam said:

Then we can see who has the most sense, eh..........

 

 

 

Christ on a bike transam!... what's with the American accented android voice?

 

Sheesh!

[RuamRudy]

13 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

 

And then there was me, a wee bit of the Scottish-born diaspora that was denied ANY vote by that grubby, attention-seeking Salmond and his ilk because he knew full well that the majority of Scots residing overseas would also kick his grandiose vision of a Darien regained well into touch.

 

Oh damn!... now see what you've made me do? I've spilt ma bloody tea!

 

Do you really think that the majority of expats would reject it? To be honest, while it's not something that I find comes up too often, when it raises its head I have found the reaction probably evenly split.

 

The one factor that I find does seem to be a major factor in the support for independence is how strongly one believes that WATP. The more blue the nose, the more dyed in the wool unionist they tend to be. 

Edited January 24, 2021 by RuamRudy

[Phulublub]

1 hour ago, katatonic said:

How much of a better future do you really think they'll all have once the nationalistic fervour has been exercised? 

"They".  So you are not Scottish then.  Do you libe in Scotland?  If no, then why do you appear to care so much what "they" want and choose to strive for?

 

PH

[Phulublub]

1 hour ago, transam said:

Nothing to answer,  just phulublub.....????

A question I have now asked four times, and met with zero response.  I wonder why.  I will ask you, directly,once again:

 

If you are English, why do you care what the Scots want to do?

 

PH

[Phulublub]

46 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

53 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

The Scottish Question Six Months On

 

It is a pdf file rather than a Web page. See page 7:

52.7% of those born in Scotland voted to leave the UK. 

72. 1% of those born in England, Wales or NI voted to stay in the UK. 

57.1% of those born elsewhere voted to stay in the UK. 

 

And then there was me, a wee bit of the Scottish-born diaspora that was denied ANY vote by that grubby, attention-seeking Salmond and his ilk because he knew full well that the majority of Scots residing overseas would also kick his grandiose vision of a Darien regained well into touch.

 

Oh damn!... now see what you've made me do? I've spilt ma bloody tea!

I note that this survery was conducted well before yhe UK voted to leave the EU.  I am pretty sure that were the same questions to be asked now there would be rather more voting to leave the UK.

 

PH

[nausea]

Scotland sold its soul a long time ago. it's all posturing, a bit like the Welsh. You want to know what nationalism really looks like, look at Éire. It takes blood and guts, not some desire for an economically better future.

[Phulublub]

10 minutes ago, nausea said:

Scotland sold its soul a long time ago. it's all posturing, a bit like the Welsh. You want to know what nationalism really looks like, look at Éire. It takes blood and guts, not some desire for an economically better future.

Can you explain that to some here then...it is not, for many Scots, all about economic advantages (thought some will be unaware or unwilling to face the financial costs).  Many are fuly aware that their Standard of Living (in financial temrs) may drop, but wish Independence all the same.

 

PH

[transam]

13 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

A question I have now asked four times, and met with zero response.  I wonder why.  I will ask you, directly,once again:

 

If you are English, why do you care what the Scots want to do?

 

PH

That question has been answered by me and others many times in the past. But, here it is again just for you from me...

The Union has been together for 300 years on an island fortress. That Union is what has made the small UK island a leading power throughout that time. The UK is respected, probably more so than much larger countries, yet the Scottish Nationalists want to destroy it, which for me beggars belief.

These shield beating Nationalists (SNP) haven't a clue what they are doing, just on an ego trip, instead of dealing with today's problems, many brought on by the SNP's lack of credibility..... 

[Phulublub]

6 minutes ago, transam said:

That question has been answered by me and others many times in the past. But, here it is again just for you from me...

The Union has been together for 300 years on an island fortress. That Union is what has made the small UK island a leading power throughout that time. The UK is respected, probably more so than much larger countries, yet the Scottish Nationalists want to destroy it, which for me beggars belief.

These shield beating Nationalists (SNP) haven't a clue what they are doing, just on an ego trip, instead of dealing with today's problems, many brought on by the SNP's lack of credibility..... 

Perhaps you should stop living in the past. 

 

The UK is no longer a World Power and has not been for quite some time.  

 

It is also just a teensy but arrogant to declare that the SNP "haven't a clue".  You do not know that.  Many of today's problems (see Scottish fishermen unable to sell their catch as a very current problem) are not the fault of the SNP, or Holyrood, or those in Scotland.

 

PH

[nausea]

46 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

A question I have now asked four times, and met with zero response.  I wonder why.  I will ask you, directly,once again:

 

If you are English, why do you care what the Scots want to do?

 

PH

Ask the Russians, or the Chinese, or the Americans. The countries that directly border you are pretty important. The Scots can go to perdition, for all I care, but we need to be secure in our borders; as an island nation even more so. You grant a foothold to some foreign power, oo'er. And an independent Scotland can go its own way. We have no control; maybe, for some petty economic advantage, they decide to sleep with the devil, who knows. Anyway, we can always rebuild Hadrian's Wall. Ha!

Edited January 24, 2021 by nausea

[Phulublub]

2 minutes ago, nausea said:

Ask the Russians, or the Chinese, or the Americans. The countries that directly border you are pretty important. The Scots can go to perdition, for all I care, but we need to be secure in our borders; as an island nation even more so. You grant a foothold to some foreign power, oo'er. And an independent Scotland can go its own way. We have no control; maybe, for some petty economic advantage, they decide to sleep with the devil, who knows.

"We have no control".  Who is this "we"?  The English?  If so you are saying that the English should be able to contrrol the Scots because they live next door!!!

 

Seems to be somewhat blinkered from a Brexiteer who wanted to tear up our relationship with our nearest neighbours...but that is no doubt, in your mind, different somehow.

 

PH

[transam]

13 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

Perhaps you should stop living in the past. 

 

The UK is no longer a World Power and has not been for quite some time.  

 

It is also just a teensy but arrogant to declare that the SNP "haven't a clue".  You do not know that.  Many of today's problems (see Scottish fishermen unable to sell their catch as a very current problem) are not the fault of the SNP, or Holyrood, or those in Scotland.

 

PH

So why were the UK paying way more cash into the EU ....

Why does the world still listen to the UK..?

You are quoting initial Brexit hiccups which I suspect will be resolved. 

[Phulublub]

9 minutes ago, transam said:

So why were the UK paying way more cash into the EU ....

Why does the world still listen to the UK..?

You are quoting initial Brexit hiccups which I suspect will be resolved. 

1.  Because we are among the richer of the European nations.

2.  Not entirely sure much of it does any more.

3. You "suspect".  Not a great deal of use to the very reral current problems beign faced by multiple businesses(and not just in Scotland) who arehan strung by new regulation and red tape.

 

PH