1 hour ago, Henk Langeweg said:

I wonder where it al goes? Is it scanned and stored digitally or after processing in the waste bin?

Immigration records are stored for years...warehouses full of useless stacks of paper that are never used once stored. The criteria for immigration was set a long time ago...it rarely get's modified.

A 20 year collection of an expats immigration forms would be a stack 30-40cms high...tied with ribbon! 

I was surprised 2 years ago when the immigration guy came to my house, took photo after photo of this bit of paper and that bit of paper, me, my wife, the witness, the house and didn't ask me to print them off for him, he somehow managed to send them to his office/boss from his phone.

 

They did this many years ago when I was the same person, my wife was the same person and we were living in the same house, and our witness was the same person who by the way had to produce all his personal documents like id card and housebook.

 

Utterly f***kin ridiculous

Absolutely true.  I can not believe that once completed and filed they are ever looked at assuming that one you actually retrieve those paper copies.  If they are scanned and filed why not make them digitized to begin with.  In opening accounts including Lazada, Shopee, Air Pay and even foreign domiciled investment accounts, they ask for things like passports, and application forms in electronic format.   Perhaps it is job security.  Gives paper shufflers something to do, and then of course there are the jobs for those who have to stamp the papers, and finally those who have to file them. 

I sit outside the plaza in Chiang Rai before Tops open, only to ensure I can park my bike right in front of the entrance. So sometime I may be there for up to twenty minutes or so, but watching these people with wheelie baskets, hosepipes and brushes to sweep the leaves away on the forecourt is highly entertaining, and at the end of the day probably more productive than an immigration officer stamping over 50 sheets of A4 with a big blue stamp and asking both me and my wife to sign them in f***kin blue ink!

Also, why does Immigration require an Applicant to hand draw a map and to download a location map from Google?  Crazy!  Then have to produce new ones every year!  Even crazier (is there such a word?).

2 hours ago, shady86 said:

Easy answer. To keep the paper factories running and create jobs for messengers, photocopy shops, ink and copy machines manufacturers. Many would lose jobs if paper consumption are reduced. 

Can you for 1 minute imagine all the Streets full of Beggars and Homeless, if Thailand were to start with paperless offices etc, bringing them into the modern world.

2 minutes ago, robertson468 said:

Also, why does Immigration require an Applicant to hand draw a map and to download a location map from Google?  Crazy!  Then have to produce new ones every year!  Even crazier (is there such a word?).

Thais are crazy by definition, they keep repeating the same thing over and over even if doesn't make sense ????

 

Have you seen a siamese cat? act the same ????

1 hour ago, PremiumLane said:

They defiantly 'recycle' them like this. The form I was given once for proof of address was on the back of a passport and visa photocopy. 

Yup, I said exactly the same thing in another thread last week.

Old Cree prophesy:

 

'Only when the last tree has been cut down, will Thai bureaucrats realise they could have gone paperless'

 

????

Marriage extension this week. So far I have amassed 70 photo copies. Probably about 1 tree

3 hours ago, Geoffggi said:

Correct, filed under "G" for garbage ............LOL

Or "F" for file and forget.

4 hours ago, bdenner said:

Several years ago I was given a printed "flyer" at the Imm Office, on the back was the main page of a Farang's passport!!!

 

3 hours ago, AndyFoxy said:

It also gives some officious bureaucrat a chance to assert their authority by asking for extra copies/copies you don’t have yet. Gives them a sense of importance when all they really are is a boneheaded paper pusher.

I always draw a big red squigly cross on the other side of the copy.????

Its the law - many nations have changed the 'document of record' from paper to electronic for certain documents e.g. invoices, receipts, contracts although not usually for land (notarised)or wills (holographic - in handwriting or adopted as such).  Thailand has not done this yet most probably because of the low prevelance of computers, data security etc.  Taking Tesco as an example - each invoice received in store then goes to head office, then is sent back to the store it was received at (Thai law) and must be kept there for a minimum of 7 years - this could be for deliveries of a couple of hundred baht of bananas etc.  Clearly electronic invoicing is easier for the bigger businesses but until the small mom and pop suppliers have the tools the law is unlikely to change, although one would think a parallel paper or electronic system would be a suitable mechanism.  Currently electronic invoices are printed by the receiver and kept (legal requirment).  So, less about creating jobs - more about sustaining the many small no tech suppliers - perhaps an app will become the route to progress as many have access to phones.

I think its a bit cozy , visiting a government office is like stepping into a time machine and suddenly you are back in the 1970's . Paper everywhere. Only missing is a typewriter. 


 

I have often wondered how is it that there is not a building as big as Wembley standing behind every immigration office to hold all the paper?

25 minutes ago, Refresh said:

Its the law - many nations have changed the 'document of record' from paper to electronic for certain documents e.g. invoices, receipts, contracts although not usually for land (notarised)or wills

I am not sure about if its the law, however even the delivery people for Grab, J&T, Kerry etc. have cell phones.  You hit print and it can convert anything to a pdf document for free.  If it needs to be signed there are numerous sites such as Doc Hub where they can be uploaded, signed and then dowloaded.  Even if what you say regarding the lack of technology for the mom and pop store is true, that still does not explain why Thai immigration has everything in paper.  You go to an airport in China or the USA they don't use paper forms.  You go to a kiosk where you answer the questions, sign the form and it automatically takes a photo of you.  All digital, all filed. 

4 hours ago, ChrisY1 said:

Immigration records are stored for years...warehouses full of useless stacks of paper that are never used once stored. The criteria for immigration was set a long time ago...it rarely get's modified.

A 20 year collection of an expats immigration forms would be a stack 30-40cms high...tied with ribbon! 

And an Identity Thief's treasure trove....nice

6 hours ago, Henk Langeweg said:

I wonder where it al goes? Is it scanned and stored digitally or after processing in the waste bin?

There are huge warehouse full of boxes of these papers. 

5 hours ago, ericdiam said:

I live next to bangkok bank main office on Silom

Should see the extremely huge plastic bags filled with snippered paper to be collected. Easily a 1000kg a month. Just one building. 

Crazy. When I opened account they needed many documents. In front of me they scanned them. Passport copy scanned. Even they had my passport there so could scan directly. Same ID card 

It is not just Thailand. When I applied online for the Australian old age pension I had to take photo copies of all 27 pages to the local office. The neanderthal doing the interview proceeded to photo copy all 27 pages even though I told him they were also on a thumb drive that he could download or look at my online application. Bureaucracy knows no bounds.

5 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

I just applied for my annual marriage extension, 2 x 72 docs, funny thing is they have all of this information on file.

 

I guess it would be too hard for them to accept a letter from the bank with an updated bank balance, recent photos of me for the TM 7 application, photos of the wife in and out of the house, an updated Kor Ror 2 from the local Amphur, a letter from mayor and pay the 1,900 baht fee.

 

I suppose with technology, it's one thing to have a scanner, but its another to know how to use it and think outside the square. 

 

So will keep the repetitive annual thing going until someone actually thinks outside the square, but won't hold my breath. 

Next time you should inform the officers that farangs doing extension because of marriage here don't have the privelege to change wife annually so they can stop asking copies of the same documents every year. 

5 hours ago, Salerno said:

 

I kid you not, I got into a somewhat heated argument not that long ago when "improvements" where i worked resulted in me having to fill in a purchase order requisition form to get a purchase order form! And no, not in Thailand.

 

Had a similar experience in the US.  Gotta love corporate life.

I remember all the paperwork involved when buying a house everything done on paper then done again on the computer, which of course was initially brought in to do away with the time consuming paperwork. Not to mention the storage issues. Everything the taking twice the time. The only country in the world where computers make the job more time consuming. 

2 hours ago, shady86 said:

Next time you should inform the officers that farangs doing extension because of marriage here don't have the privelege to change wife annually so they can stop asking copies of the same documents every year. 

Let's know how you get on, and how many documents don't quite meet Imm. standards. Many of us old hands  would love to hear your experience. 

9 hours ago, shady86 said:

Easy answer. To keep the paper factories running and create jobs for messengers, photocopy shops, ink and copy machines manufacturers. Many would lose jobs if paper consumption are reduced. 

They only built a new extension in Kan irritation office to keep the photocopies in !! ????????????????????????????????

Thai don't even trust their own shadow.................

Quote

Netizens debate: Why are people in Thailand still being asked for so many photocopies?

 

So the imposters who populate the various bureaucracies can feel important?

 

 

 

The simple answer.... Legacy and something tangible. 

 

Legacy: Photocopies are asked for because thats whats always been asked for since digitisation. No one wants to stand up and change the policies, why would they, that involves effort and change, not many people welcome change. 

 

Something tangible: Its difficult for people to handle digital data, they can’t feel it or see it, there is always a nagging doubt that something has been missed. A photocopy is there, its filed, staff can go back to it. 

 

Many systems world wide, banking, businesses etc are all slow to evolve. 

 

Only now are we getting digital varification apps on our smart phones eradicating the need for the ‘security key device’ to long onto our mobile Banking - that could have be put in place a decade ago.

 

Thailand has yet to even instigate 'security key devices’.

 

On the other hand Thailand was quick to adopt PromptPay (linking a mobile number to a Bank account for easy payment) and QR codes, and also quick to adopt cashless ATM’s (using your Mobile app to get a code). 

 

This indicates that putting something new in place is much easier and more efficient than changing something which has been around for a while. 

Well with the new law on data protection act 2020, coming into effect shortly, we are now legally entitled to request copies of all documents, electronic or otherwise that any business or government office hold. 

 

So if you fancy a laugh next time you are at immigration speak to their data protection officer and request copies of all the data they hold on you. They have 72 hours to comply.  Let them do the photocopying for once.

The giant amount of paperwork the Thai bureaucracies churn out is a legacy of the 80 years of incompetent rule following the numerous coups that abound here.

Uneducated old fools running the show is the whole reason this nonsense is still with us.

A good example is my marriage visa.

I'm asked to provide a map to my house.

Can you provide a google map to show exactly where you live.....no......you have to provide a hand drawn sketch, similar to that a junior school child would produce.

The same thing when I opened a business here, again a map to the house was required......after handing her the google map picture, the lady dealing with the business documents told me not to worry, they would draw a map for me, as the administration were 'old people' and wouldn't understand the google map!

All down to the old uneducated fools that hopelessly try to steer the ship away from the ever approaching rocks.

All down to education.

14 minutes ago, Suua said:

The giant amount of paperwork the Thai bureaucracies churn out is a legacy of the 80 years of incompetent rule following the numerous coups that abound here.

Uneducated old fools running the show is the whole reason this nonsense is still with us.

A good example is my marriage visa.

I'm asked to provide a map to my house.

Can you provide a google map to show exactly where you live.....no......you have to provide a hand drawn sketch, similar to that a junior school child would produce.

The same thing when I opened a business here, again a map to the house was required......after handing her the google map picture, the lady dealing with the business documents told me not to worry, they would draw a map for me, as the administration were 'old people' and wouldn't understand the google map!

All down to the old uneducated fools that hopelessly try to steer the ship away from the ever approaching rocks.

All down to education.

88 pages and 176 signatures for one application in my case. Beyond ludicrous !

 

Why do they need all the photocopies when doing a 90 day report in the office, but do it online and nothing is required ? Its the SAME system ! SAME information.