Plug-in Hybrids the way to go

[mortenaa]

Always heard that battery cars would be a problem in the heat. Recently bought a BMW 330e, and have to say it's great. BMW says the range is between 40km to 50km, but I have no problems getting 60km range. I have now driven about 1300km, and so far most of it is electric. Preconditioning with the app is great if you parked your car in the sun. Plus all the toys, including Android Auto. I plan to install a small solar cell system so I can enjoy free charging as well.

[canthai55]

 

[ThaIrish Sean]

3 hours ago, canthai55 said:

 

Possibly the most eloquent Australian I've ever listened to.

[richard_smith237]

A very nice car - Powered by fossil fuels of course. 

 

Men on Oil Rigs and offshore platforms producing hydrocarbons to create electricity to charge batteries consisting of nickel and cobalt mined by children. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jan/05/cutting-cobalt-challenge-battery-industry-electric-cars-congo

 

 

The solar cell charging is a good idea - how much is required to charge a car over night?

 

 

Edited February 3, 2021 by richard_smith237

[tweedledee2]

5 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

The solar cell charging is a good idea - how much is required to charge a car over night?

Solar charging overnight, that's a bright ideal.

[richard_smith237]

31 minutes ago, tweedledee2 said:

6 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

The solar cell charging is a good idea - how much is required to charge a car over night?

Solar charging overnight, that's a bright ideal.

 

Oh dear... Struggling with that one ???.... 

 

https://www.drivingelectric.com/your-questions-answered/132/can-solar-panels-charge-electric-car

 

[canthai55]

Video mentions he has a 7 KW charger on his shop wall

Takes 8 hours - if memory serves ?

7000 Watts at 220 Volts = 32 Amps single phase at a 1 to 1 factor

Average solar panels for home use are 225 - 350 Watts

So lots of panels, or for nite time charging a lot of batteries

Factor in this, and that the vehicle cost 50% more than the same one diesel powered, and you gotta figure it is an expensive toy.

100,000 miles or Km , can't remember, to break even and have the EV start to be cheaper to operate.

All EV's similar - so a fun, not a cost saving, vehicle

 

[tweedledee2]

5 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Oh dear... Struggling with that one ???.... 

   Not struggling!  My reading comprehension is very good,  You asked the question, "The solar cell charging is a good idea - how much is required to charge a car over night?  A reader shouldn't have to read your mind or between the lines to decipher your question. But why elicit a response, if you already knew the answer as per your link?  

https://www.drivingelectric.com/your-questions-answered/132/can-solar-panels-charge-electric-car

Also, overnight is one word.

 

 

 

[mortenaa]

13 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

A very nice car - Powered by fossil fuels of course. 

 

Men on Oil Rigs and offshore platforms producing hydrocarbons to create electricity to charge batteries consisting of nickel and cobalt mined by children. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jan/05/cutting-cobalt-challenge-battery-industry-electric-cars-congo

 

 

The solar cell charging is a good idea - how much is required to charge a car over night?

 

 

 

Personally I only charge during the daytime. I only charge when I need. So a bit of planning is needed if you're going on trips. I don't want to leave the battery charged 100%. Try to keep it on a state between 40% - 70%. That's adequate for most of my local trips, which are usually maximum 20km. A fully charged battery will degrade quicker. If I'm going on longer trips, I use the preconditioning function, so It's a 100% and interior is chilled, ready for departure. 

 

From empty to full it takes about 6 hours with a 220v 10 AMP charger, which comes with the car. So with a 2 phase 5KW solar system, I should be able to charge virtually for free. Besides I live in a house, and use A/C, pool pump etc as well. So I don't need to install a costly system with batteries etc. 

 

[KannikaP]

18 hours ago, mortenaa said:

Always heard that battery cars would be a problem in the heat. Recently bought a BMW 330e, and have to say it's great. BMW says the range is between 40km to 50km, but I have no problems getting 60km range. I have now driven about 1300km, and so far most of it is electric. Preconditioning with the app is great if you parked your car in the sun. Plus all the toys, including Android Auto. I plan to install a small solar cell system so I can enjoy free charging as well.

60km would not get me to and back from my 'local' Tesco.

[mortenaa]

3 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

60km would not get me to and back from my 'local' Tesco.

 

Then a diesel car is still your best option. My previous car was a diesel, and I loved it. A full tank gave me 700-800km.

[KannikaP]

2 minutes ago, mortenaa said:

 

Then a diesel car is still your best option. My previous car was a diesel, and I loved it. A full tank gave me 700-800km.

Which is exactly what I have...2012 Vigo, perfect.

 

The 700 or 800 km depends on which fuel you use, B7 or B10. And how you drive of course. And the size of the tank!

Edited February 4, 2021 by KannikaP

[Mansell]

Having had a Nissan Leaf I was pretty happy with it, though it’s range was 100 miles. I leased it, and I think that’s the way to go until there is charging stations everywhere. Used to charge for free up the street courtesy of Santa Monica City. The Tesla’s have free charging stations inside their maximum range, and they are free to charge as it’s from from solar energy. Had three Priuses and they are great. Averaged sixty miles to the gallon on a long trip with pretty much everything on and driving at 80mph. They are used as taxis in America and most have got in excess of 200,000 miles on their batteries. You rarely need to replace the brakes because of regenerative braking. Going down the Grapevine outside LA I had everything on, lights, a/c, radio, cruise control, and it wasn’t using the engine or electric motors.....just running on generating its own electricity. I had no idea it had that capability. Loved that car. Oh, and I had three because I kept getting rebates of money back from the state or government for owning a hybrid.

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, mortenaa said:

 

Then a diesel car is still your best option. My previous car was a diesel, and I loved it. A full tank gave me 700-800km.

 

Diesels pump out more NO2 which is an issue. 

 

I do like the idea of electric vehicles, however, their ‘environmentally friendliness’ is conveniently glossed over. 

IF the goal is just to make the air cleaner in area’s of high vehicle density EV’s are a good solution, however, the power needs to come from somewhere and meeting that energy demand is difficult - reenables simply aren’t efficient enough, fossil fuels and nuclear are the only sources of energy available to meet high energy demands.

 

The Car batteries and not exactly environmentally friendly, solar sells work in the countryside, but there’s not sufficient space in the cities. Nuclear Energy is an option as a ‘cleaner’ power source, but its unpopular. 

Had Chernobyl not happened the world would now be a different place from an energy perspective. 

 

I believe Hydrogen power is the way forward for cars but the governments have backed EV’s in lieu of the difficulty of storing hydrogen safety in moving vehicles due to its high energy per mass potential. 

 

 

[canthai55]

13 minutes ago, Mansell said:

 The Tesla’s have free charging stations inside their maximum range, and they are free to charge as it’s from from solar energy.

Better read this ...

A few of the Tesla supercharging stations use solar panels to offset energy use and provide shade.[26] Tesla plans to install additional solar power generation at Superchargers

And ...

Fees for using Superchargers

Unlimited supercharging for life is free for all Model S and Model X cars that were ordered before January 15, 2017,[51] or between August 2, 2019[52] and May 26, 2020,[53] or for vehicles that were purchased using a referral code during certain periods.

More info in the link - free they ain't

[mortenaa]

5 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Diesels pump out more NO2 which is an issue. 

 

I do like the idea of electric vehicles, however, their ‘environmentally friendliness’ is conveniently glossed over. 

IF the goal is just to make the air cleaner in area’s of high vehicle density EV’s are a good solution, however, the power needs to come from somewhere and meeting that energy demand is difficult - reenables simply aren’t efficient enough, fossil fuels and nuclear are the only sources of energy available to meet high energy demands.

 

The Car batteries and not exactly environmentally friendly, solar sells work in the countryside, but there’s not sufficient space in the cities. Nuclear Energy is an option as a ‘cleaner’ power source, but its unpopular. 

Had Chernobyl not happened the world would now be a different place from an energy perspective. 

 

I believe Hydrogen power is the way forward for cars but the governments have backed EV’s in lieu of the difficulty of storing hydrogen safety in moving vehicles due to its high energy per mass potential. 

 

 

 

Batteries are produced more environmentally friendly now than a few years ago, and Tesla and others are further improving this. 

[KannikaP]

Could someone explain to me the difference between hybrid, self-charging hybrid and charging hybrid. Ta!

I had a discussion with a Lexus salesman who told me that their self-charging car ran off TWO power sources, petrol & re-generative power put into the batteries by inertial energy, ie the braking put the energy back. I asked him where the energy to put back came from....Dooooh.

[canthai55]

Under power the battery turns the electric motors.

Under braking, the wheels turn the electric motors.

CPU (computer) knows this and uses the electric motors as electric generators, and puts the power back into the battery bank.

Hybrid - uses both internal combustion engine and electric motor(s)

Think submarine - diesel on the surface, electric when submerged

[tifino]

this thread could have had a Vote going, for what yous favour...  

 

 - Hybrid? - or - EV?? 

[JAS21]

On 2/3/2021 at 3:33 PM, mortenaa said:

Always heard that battery cars would be a problem in the heat. Recently bought a BMW 330e, and have to say it's great. BMW says the range is between 40km to 50km, but I have no problems getting 60km range. I have now driven about 1300km, and so far most of it is electric. Preconditioning with the app is great if you parked your car in the sun. Plus all the toys, including Android Auto. I plan to install a small solar cell system so I can enjoy free charging as well.

I believe that BMW quote for your car up to 60kms electric range. If you get anywhere near that you have done well ...guess driving relatively slowly and with the air con off. You battery is 12kWh. We have a PHEV with a 6.2kWh battery. One morning, driving slowly and with the air con off I managed 30kms. The normal we get is 18-20 in quite traffic.

 

In the recent cold spell, 20decC or so would have helped in getting the best charge into the battery, I think...

 

Android Auto didn't used to be available in Thailand (easily) and it wasn't very stable. I use Apple Car Play and much prefer Google maps to the installed system.

[JAS21]

12 hours ago, mortenaa said:

 

Personally I only charge during the daytime. I only charge when I need. So a bit of planning is needed if you're going on trips. I don't want to leave the battery charged 100%. Try to keep it on a state between 40% - 70%. That's adequate for most of my local trips, which are usually maximum 20km. A fully charged battery will degrade quicker. If I'm going on longer trips, I use the preconditioning function, so It's a 100% and interior is chilled, ready for departure. 

 

From empty to full it takes about 6 hours with a 220v 10 AMP charger, which comes with the car. So with a 2 phase 5KW solar system, I should be able to charge virtually for free. Besides I live in a house, and use A/C, pool pump etc as well. So I don't need to install a costly system with batteries etc. 

 

Yes ... 6 hours will be about right ... ours takes about half that and it charges at 9amps off a 220V system.  I don't bother about not charging fully or letting the battery get down to quite a low level. I just stick it in Hybrid mode unless I know that I'm going to hit slow traffic later when i select it to maintain a whatever %age charge I want.

 

Thailand's electrical generation from renewables  is about 10% so plugging into that bit is the way to go    ????

 

One thing I noticed is that the 'starter battery' if that is what you want to call it, does not get charged unless the engine runs ie during charging the Hybrid battery it is not charged, so if it has run a lot on Hybrid battery only  I use my CTEK. 

[mistral53]

2 hours ago, JAS21 said:

Yes ... 6 hours will be about right ... ours takes about half that and it charges at 9amps off a 220V system.  I don't bother about not charging fully or letting the battery get down to quite a low level. I just stick it in Hybrid mode unless I know that I'm going to hit slow traffic later when i select it to maintain a whatever %age charge I want.

 

Thailand's electrical generation from renewables  is about 10% so plugging into that bit is the way to go    ????

 

One thing I noticed is that the 'starter battery' if that is what you want to call it, does not get charged unless the engine runs ie during charging the Hybrid battery it is not charged, so if it has run a lot on Hybrid battery only  I use my CTEK. 

Different car manufacturers run different charging philosophies - on my Benz PHEV, the 12V battery is charged whenever the car is in ready mode, i.e. the car does not need to be driven. Also, the MB PHEV does not have an alternator, so the 12V battery is always charged of the HV battery.

[sirineou]

It all depends on why you are buying the PHEV,

If you are buying it to save money you need to decide . based on your driving and price of gas and how long you will keep the car, if the extra money you pay up front for the PHEV option will be less than the money you  save on fuel in the long run. I think it takes about five years for the break even. 

[JAS21]

8 hours ago, mistral53 said:

Different car manufacturers run different charging philosophies - on my Benz PHEV, the 12V battery is charged whenever the car is in ready mode, i.e. the car does not need to be driven. Also, the MB PHEV does not have an alternator, so the 12V battery is always charged of the HV battery.

Interesting ... we have the E350e. Definitely the starter battery volts reduce after running in electric mode and do not come up during hybrid charging, well that is what I have found. I'm a member of MBEQ-TH and somebody there must know.  As I understand it, whilst running in hybrid mode engine restarts are carried out by a combination of starter battery and the hybrid system. I never find the volts down when I have been running in that mode.  Please advise if you know that I am incorrect on the engine restart system, but that is what I gleaned at one of those teaching things that MB do. 

 

Looking back I probably should have bought the diesel, or a more sensible option would actually have been another manufactures product!  

[mistral53]

3 hours ago, JAS21 said:

Interesting ... we have the E350e. Definitely the starter battery volts reduce after running in electric mode and do not come up during hybrid charging, well that is what I have found. I'm a member of MBEQ-TH and somebody there must know.  As I understand it, whilst running in hybrid mode engine restarts are carried out by a combination of starter battery and the hybrid system. I never find the volts down when I have been running in that mode.  Please advise if you know that I am incorrect on the engine restart system, but that is what I gleaned at one of those teaching things that MB do. 

 

Looking back I probably should have bought the diesel, or a more sensible option would actually have been another manufactures product!  

MB has two ways to start the engine, depending on whether the car is moving or at a standstill, chiefly the start/stop function - i.e. in the former, the engine starts via that transmission/electric motor from the HV battery, in the latter case there is a regular starter motor fed by the 12V battery. In theory, modern direct injected engines could probably do without a starter motor - Mazda already does it:

 

https://www.mazda.com/en/innovation/technology/env/i-stop/

[JAS21]

3 minutes ago, mistral53 said:

MB has two ways to start the engine, depending on whether the car is moving or at a standstill, chiefly the start/stop function - i.e. in the former, the engine starts via that transmission/electric motor from the HV battery, in the latter case there is a regular starter motor fed by the 12V battery. In theory, modern direct injected engines could probably do without a starter motor - Mazda already does it:

 

https://www.mazda.com/en/innovation/technology/env/i-stop/

Out of interest... how old is your car and how many times has it needed the mothership?

[ExpatOilWorker]

Is the battery pack still located in the spare tyre compartment of the trunk in ur BMW?

Then you have the more expensive run-flat-tyres, that can't be replaced at any corner shop.

[digger70]

On 2/4/2021 at 1:13 AM, tweedledee2 said:

Solar charging overnight, that's a bright ideal.

It Will work ,,, Just aim a Spotlight on your Solar Cell   ????

[mistral53]

8 hours ago, JAS21 said:

Out of interest... how old is your car and how many times has it needed the mothership?

3 years next month - we needed a new AC compressor, 2 fuel injectors and a fix for a rattling noise. The 'mothership' here in H-H has been great. Not the best car from MB I have owned.

[JAS21]

35 minutes ago, mistral53 said:

3 years next month - we needed a new AC compressor, 2 fuel injectors and a fix for a rattling noise. The 'mothership' here in H-H has been great. Not the best car from MB I have owned.

I've just had the AirCon compressor changed ...there were four others in the garage for the same thing! I bought up to eight years warranty ....