Thai road carnage: A motorcyclist is killed every 30 minutes in Thailand

[Joeb]

3 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

It is about inattention which is the #1 cause of accidents in the world.

Add lack of education and engineering of the roadways.

Just always blaming the cops is small box ignorance.

Don't agree entirely on the cops. Many of the Thai's I know are convinced that the traffic laws are not about safety at all but just to make money for the cops. They reach that conclusion because they see police on bikes breaking all the laws they spent the day 'enforcing'

[metisdead]

Another off topic post about India that was from another forum has been removed:

 

13) You will not post links to other Thailand forums, or forums which could reasonably be construed as competition to Thaivisa.com or its sponsors.
 

[AgentSmith]

5 minutes ago, Joeb said:

Don't agree entirely on the cops. Many of the Thai's I know are convinced that the traffic laws are not about safety at all but just to make money for the cops. They reach that conclusion because they see police on bikes breaking all the laws they spent the day 'enforcing'

bkk6060 is right though. Focusing on the cops ignores the entire system that makes for these huge amounts of accidents to happen. Cops don't cause accidents. Bad drivers and bad roads do, especially the combination of the two.

[actonion]

The wearing of motorbike helmets is a definate money spinner for the police..

 

I've always wondered why the enforce it  so much apart from the above , seeing as how if  we  hurt ourselves in a motorbike accident  we have to pay for our own bodily damage at the hospital...

[musicscene]

On 2/4/2021 at 12:06 PM, bigupandchill said:

From where I live to where I drive at night is a fast 4 lane road with many bikes with no rear lights. What is it about these riders that they want to endanger themselves and me for the cost of a rear bulb?

I wonder if the riders ever check their lights and know that they are not working 

[kiwikeith]

On 2/4/2021 at 5:59 PM, ezzra said:

Thailand is a nation on two wheels, when i came first 30 years ago they were many riders as motorcycles are affordable way to move around, and in the last few years with the proliferation of business offering services on 2 wheels such the messengers and the bike taxis you see now everywhere it stand to reason the increase in road fatalities...

If your preferred religion says you will be back in two months no need to worry.

Its all part of a big picture, enforcing safety standards, helmets, numbers of people on bikes ect would work, but with the Police as they are and hooligans modifying small bikes to make loud noise speeding down highways and small sois full of children ,there is not much hope.

[HandsomeTallFarang]

 Low training + Lax Laws + Superstitions = Carnage 

 

They are just not wired to do the task of driving competently. There’s a reason why the stereotype exists, because it’s true.

Brilliant at math, engineering and other things, but bad at driving.

[2530Ubon]

9 minutes ago, HandsomeTallFarang said:

They are just not wired to do the task of driving competently. There’s a reason why the stereotype exists, because it’s true.

Brilliant at math, engineering and other things, but bad at driving.

 

And the most racist post of the month goes to....

Edited February 7, 2021 by 2530Ubon

[HandsomeTallFarang]

1 minute ago, 2530Ubon said:

 

And the most racist post of the month goes to....

Facts don’t care about your feelings 

[2530Ubon]

4 minutes ago, HandsomeTallFarang said:

Facts don’t care about your feelings 

Facts - Thai people are 'wired' exactly the same as us. My years of medical training would attest to that. The first part of your post was good though.

 

18 minutes ago, HandsomeTallFarang said:

Low training + Lax Laws + Superstitions = Carnage 

 

[BobinBKK]

On 2/4/2021 at 11:55 AM, Orton Rd said:

Baskets and tires are just excuses, it's the riders and drivers of cars who are to blame, not the vechiles

As for the many riders I encounter riding on the footpaths in Bangkok I have absolutely NO SYMPATHY for them ????

[DualSportBiker]

Because it is enjoyable and the risk is manageable. It takes preparation, repeated practice, taking safety seriously and route planning. But none of the above are arduous.

 

On 2/4/2021 at 11:58 AM, Surelynot said:

Very true.....I can understand Thais, out of economic necessity, having to ride bikes, but why would anyone else put their life on the line, unnecessarily, to ride a bike in Thailand?

[Surelynot]

Just now, DualSportBiker said:

Because it is enjoyable and the risk is manageable. It takes preparation, repeated practice, taking safety seriously and route planning. But none of the above are arduous.

 

I understand completely....and have been tempted......but in Thailand you have minimal control over the risks you face......on balance (each to his own) I just don't feel it is worth the risk.....

[fakser]

On 2/4/2021 at 6:52 AM, webfact said:

Thai road carnage: A motorcyclist is killed every 30 minutes in Thailand

 

Picture: Voice TV

 

Thailand media Voice TV made comparisons with the driving of motorcycles,  their specifications, and road rules in the kingdom with what happens abroad.

 

And it made dire reading. 

 

The experts were in agreement:

 

Thailand needs to buck up its ideas or tens of thousands of needless deaths are going to continue to occur each and every year. 

 

Voice TV started by asking a salient question:Did you know that a person dies on a motorcycle in Thailand every half an hour?

 

And that in 2019 there were 17,000 deaths on two wheels making up 80% of all road death.

 

Several experts from road safety organisations were quoted for where they see the main problems.

 

Dr Chamaiphan Santikan said if the government were serious about doing something about death on the roads they had to focus on motorcycles. 

 

Road surfaces, skills, vehicle specs and laws were key.

 

She pointed to the fact that a large proportion of 15-20 year olds were driving high powered machines. She called for bans on licences for Big Bikes for anyone not over 21. 

 

Bringing in a system where younger riders were limited in the power of their machines - Graduated Driver Licensing - until they proved in tests that they could handle bigger machines could lower accidents by 25%.  Such systems were used abroad. 

 

Comparing death per 100,000 motorcycles on the road was also a damning stat for Thailand.

 

In the kingdom it was 81 deaths per 100,000.

 

In Europe it is just ELEVEN.

 

Also the specs on Thai motorcycles are terrible for promoting safety on the roads, say the experts.

 

Spped and fuel economy is promoted ahead of safety features.

 

They pointed to poor lights on 110cc models.

 

Speed warning lights come on on 110 and 125cc bikes in the UK at 90 kmph, the top speed allowed.

 

In places like Mexico, Malaysia and Japan the speed limit is higher but red warnings come on at just 80 kmph.

 

In Thailand 100cc's belt along at 140-160 kmph with no warning at all. 

 

Baskets on the front of Thai bikes often obscure headlights when loaded. This causes a staggering 1000 deaths a year, the experts claimed.

 

In Japan the problem is solved by fitting lights on the baskets themselves. 

 

Thai bikes have thinner tires that reduce stability but make them go faster - another detrimental factor. 

 

They also have less weight than foreign bikes of a similar capacity that reduces fuel consumption but, again, raises speeds.

 

Heavier vehicles have more stability but are not favored by Thais who want to zig-zag everywhere.

 

Thaivisa notes that the article contained some interesting points but was almost entirely lacking in one area often cited by foreign riders as a major reason why the death toll is so high in Thailand.

 

Poor or non-existent law enforcement by an indifferent and lazy police force.

 

Many feel that if the police enforced helmet laws, cracked down on poor driving continually and concentrated their efforts on young people going to and from schools often with several people on one motorcycle, the death toll could be cut dramatically and quickly.

 

As with all analysis of this issue the question is of political will too.

 

And that seems to be sorely lacking as thousands continue to die on the roads. 

 

If nothing is done a MILLION Thais will die on the roads over the next 40 years and tens of millions will be injured.

 

Despite acceptance by politicians that the death toll has a devastating impact not just on personal lives but GDP, the politicians in Thailand still offer only lip service to the issue.

 

While the people themselves continue to die and break the law with impunity hiding behind a "face of freedom". 

 

Source: Voice TV

 

 

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22,000 deaths per year in the roads, close to zero action from the government. 

70 deaths from Covid19, tourism, commerce and social life abolished. Economy destroyed.

I have no more what to say.

[Andre0720]

On 2/4/2021 at 12:59 PM, soi3eddie said:

 

I was waiting an intersection in Saphan Kwai a few weeks ago. The lights there stay on red for ages at the traffic gets green from each other direction. At least 30+ motorcycles at the head of traffic. A police bike with 2 cops stopped next to me. On break in the light change cycle, a biker in front saw his chance and jumped the red light before cross traffic started. Amazingly, the cops just commented and shook their heads. I though for sure they would chase the rider down but no, nothing! If that type of riding is allowed and not prosecuted then there's no hope.

 

Actually, all types of riding are allowed here, all. Even gets funny, when I see a guy on a motorbike with no helmet, on the phone, with a cigarette in one hand, riding in front of the Chalong police station. Can it get more hilarious than that...

Police enforcement in Thailand is exactly like a lottery in reverse order. In a lottery, very few win. For road driving infractions, very very few lose...

[Andre0720]

On 2/5/2021 at 7:46 PM, AgentSmith said:

bkk6060 is right though. Focusing on the cops ignores the entire system that makes for these huge amounts of accidents to happen. Cops don't cause accidents. Bad drivers and bad roads do, especially the combination of the two.

Entirely wrong. Cops cause most of the accidents. If a police can stop someone from driving in a way that is dangerous, which could result in accidents and death, and this police does not prevent that from happening, as he is able to, then he is logically responsible for the results, which is road carnage and deaths.

[Surelynot]

Just now, Andre0720 said:

Entirely wrong. Cops cause most of the accidents. If a police can stop someone from driving in a way that is dangerous, which could result in accidents and death, and this police does not prevent that from happening, as he is able to, then he is logically responsible for the results, which is road carnage and deaths.

Wouldn't disagree...I would, however, add the people at the test centre who give out licenses for as little as 1000 Baht, and the government who set the policy that allows a very poor...almost non-existent..... system of training and education on how to drive safely.

[Andre0720]

4 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Wouldn't disagree...I would, however, add the people at the test centre who give out licenses for as little as 1000 Baht, and the government who set the policy that allows a very poor...almost non-existent..... system of training and education on how to drive safely.

Well, Thais appear to me as very good drivers. So good actually that I am just amazed that so many can make it home with such an undisciplined driving, a pressing need to be in front of the other vehicle, a nagging need to save these precious seconds to get wherever they are going. Putting their lives and the lives of others at risk, Just check Chao Fa at the end of the school day. They will risk killing themselves, or a student brother, or a student sister, or a student daughter, or a student son, or anyone else appearing as an obstacle to them, in order to be in front of the traffic, or home 10 seconds early.

Fear, fear of consequences is the only thing that will put some discipline into driving. Thus reducing the road carnage.. Fear of consequences...

[rott]

On 04/02/2021 at 12:09 PM, poohy said:

He must be getting sick and tired of it by now!????

One of your better ones chief. ????

[ctxa]

I do not think Thai roads are that dangerous if you are driving on four wheels. And I also do not think that Thai drivers are as bad as some TVFers claim... 

 

(Truth must be said, although I am farang, I learned to drive in China, and never have driven in farangland. So perhaps it's just that I became used to Asian driving and these things don't surprise me anymore)... 

 

Looking at the attached picture only 3.5% of accidents are caused only by passenger cars. And around 12% of the fatalities are people which were driving passenger cars (I am excluding pick-up trucks for obvious reasons, such as seating people in the back). That means that from around 20,000 deaths per year, slightly over 2,000 are drivers/passengers of passenger cars.

 

A farangland country with similar population as Thailand? The UK. Around 800 deaths counting only passenger cars. Higher, even more than double that of Thailand. But not as alarmingly higher as some people think it is. 

 

Of course, when it comes to 2 wheelers, thats a different. story. Thai motorbike riders seldom use what little protection they have available (proper riding clothes, helmet, etc...), combine that with the dangerous things they do (running lights, driving against traffic, speeding) and the fact that motorbikes have no crumple space, the one taking nearly the full force of the impact and/or flying a couple hundred meters it's gonna be the driver of the motorbike..... 

 

So, IMHO Thailand should crack down harder on motos and drunk-driving than anything else. In China they had this same problem 20 years ago, big cities slowly  introduced measures to discourage the usage and purchase of new motorbikes until they recently banned them completely in big cities. Now they only allow riding those electric motorbikes, which can't ride as fast as motorbikes, and most of them now ride through walkways anyway. Road deaths sure dropped a lot. (Although incidents with pedestrians surely skyrocketed ????)

Edited February 7, 2021 by ctxa

[DualSportBiker]

Well, after 30 years riding here I would disagree. The vast majority of bike accidents here are some combination of lack of skill, low awareness, substance abuse, not following the road signs or the law. The severity of the accidents is not mitigated because for 95% of Thai bike riders, safety gear begins and ends with a poor-quality helmet. All of those are choices and therefore controllable.

 

I wear all that can be worn from head to toe. I never ride when tired, ill or in a foul mood. I practice my skills in car parks. I am already a highly alert and aware driver/rider. I follow the rules of the road and I avoid main roads at all costs. I ride with 3,000 lumens of LEDs to ensure I am visible and have a 120 bB horn. Truth is, I am anal-retentive regarding safety and being aware of my surroundings. And yet, despite all that, I accept there is additional risk on a bike (here or anywhere) and I accept that risk. 

 

20 hours ago, Surelynot said:

I understand completely....and have been tempted......but in Thailand you have minimal control over the risks you face......on balance (each to his own) I just don't feel it is worth the risk.....

[DualSportBiker]

I get what you mean, but don't agree with the way you express it. Cops here allow accidents to happen. Causing accidents is wholly different.

 

15 hours ago, Andre0720 said:

Entirely wrong. Cops cause most of the accidents. If a police can stop someone from driving in a way that is dangerous, which could result in accidents and death, and this police does not prevent that from happening, as he is able to, then he is logically responsible for the results, which is road carnage and deaths.

[richard_smith237]

7 hours ago, DualSportBiker said:

I get what you mean, but don't agree with the way you express it. Cops here allow accidents to happen. Causing accidents is wholly different.

 

22 hours ago, Andre0720 said:

Entirely wrong. Cops cause most of the accidents. If a police can stop someone from driving in a way that is dangerous, which could result in accidents and death, and this police does not prevent that from happening, as he is able to, then he is logically responsible for the results, which is road carnage and deaths.

 

The Police ‘enable’ accidents to happen. While not a direct cause of accidents, through a lack of enforcement accidents which would otherwise not happen occur because the police provide an environment whereby their ineffectiveness has a direct impact on the behaviour of road-users. Thus, more than simply standing by and allowing accidents to happen their ineffectiveness could be considered as cause. 

 

 

 

Edited February 8, 2021 by richard_smith237

[OffshoreMig]

On 2/4/2021 at 5:13 PM, Surelynot said:

They would have to be physically separated with barriers.....is that what you intended?

No I think they just need good road marking. Public Transport could use the bike lane also.  Better then the mish mash of Bikes weaving through car traffic. 

[Artisi]

5 minutes ago, OffshoreMig said:

No I think they just need good road marking. Public Transport could use the bike lane also.  Better then the mish mash of Bikes weaving through car traffic. 

Do you actually live here and have you ever ventured out and  observed the traffic behaviour, especially bikes and their complete disregard for lane lines, signage, right / wrong side of the road, red lights etc etc. 

[OffshoreMig]

16 minutes ago, Artisi said:

Do you actually live here and have you ever ventured out and  observed the traffic behaviour,
 

Yes I ride my scooter every day.  Bangkok. 

Edited February 9, 2021 by OffshoreMig

[Artisi]

9 minutes ago, OffshoreMig said:

Yes I ride my scooter every day.  Bangkok. 

Then you must realise that nothing will change irrespective of how many dedicated lanes, road markings, rules are applied / enforced - - - you can't fix stupid. 

[248900_1469958220]

Great at wearing masks for a virus that has a 99.7 % survival rate....not so good with the immediate dangers of head injuries...

[OffshoreMig]

21 minutes ago, Artisi said:

Then you must realise that nothing will change

With that attitude of course not.  But common sense says that providing a space for Motorcyclist to travel separate from Trucks and Cars would have to be a positive. It is one of many things that should be considered. Shared Bus lanes are common in Australia and other Western countries. It works

 

Edited February 9, 2021 by OffshoreMig

[Surelynot]

1 hour ago, OffshoreMig said:

No I think they just need good road marking

Do you live in Thailand????