International Criminal Court says it has jurisdiction in Palestinian territories

[rooster59]

International Criminal Court says it has jurisdiction in Palestinian territories

By Toby Sterling and Stephanie van den Berg

 

FILE PHOTO: Public Prosecutor Fatou Bensouda attends the trial for Malian Islamist militant Al-Hassan Ag Abdoul Aziz Ag Mohamed Ag Mahmoud at the ICC (International Criminal Court) in the Hague, the Netherlands July 8,2019. REUTERS/Eva Plevier/Pool

 

THE HAGUE (Reuters) - Judges at the International Criminal Court on Friday found the court has jurisdiction over war crimes committed in the Palestinian territories, paving the way for a possible criminal investigation, despite Israeli objections.

 

The decision prompted swift reactions from both Israel, which is not a member of the court and rejects its jurisdiction, and the Palestinian Authority, which welcomed the ruling.

 

ICC Prosecutor Fatou Bensouda said her office was studying the decision and would decide what to do next "guided strictly by its independent and impartial mandate" to prosecute grave war crimes and atrocities when countries are unable or unwilling to do so themselves.

The ICC judges said their decision was based on the fact that Palestine has been granted membership to the tribunal's founding treaty, and had referred the situation to the court. The judges said the jurisdiction decision does not imply any attempt to determine Palestinian statehood, which is uncertain, or national borders.

 

"The Court's territorial jurisdiction in the Situation in Palestine ... extends to the territories occupied by Israel since 1967, namely Gaza and the West Bank, including East Jerusalem," they said.

 

Bensouda had found in December 2019 that "war crimes have been or are being committed in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip."

 

She named both the Israeli Defense Forces and armed Palestinian groups such as Hamas as possible perpetrators.

 

She said then that she saw no reason not to open an investigation, but asked judges to first rule on whether the situation fell under the court's jurisdiction.

 

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu denounced the decision, saying in a video statement: "When the ICC investigates Israel for fake war crimes, this is pure antisemitism."

 

He condemned the court for investigating Israel when it "defends itself against terrorists" while refusing to investigate what he said were brutal dictatorships in Iran and Syria that committed horrific atrocities almost daily.

 

"We will fight this perversion of justice with all our might," Netanyahu said in the video, shaking a fist.

 

Human Rights Watch called the decision "pivotal" and said it "finally offers victims of serious crimes some real hope for justice after a half century of impunity," said Balkees Jarrah, associate international justice director.

 

"It's high time that Israeli and Palestinian perpetrators of the gravest abuses - whether war crimes committed during hostilities or the expansion of unlawful settlements - face justice."

 

The Palestinian Foreign Ministry said in a statement that it was a "historic day for the principle of accountability."

 

Sami Abu Zuhri, a Hamas official, described the decision as "an important development that contributes in protecting the Palestinian people."

 

"We urge the international court to launch an investigation into Israeli war crimes against the Palestinian people," said Abu Zuhri, who is currently outside Gaza.

 

The United States has "serious concerns" about the ICC's effort to assert jurisdiction over Israeli personnel in the Palestinian territories, U.S. State Department spokesman Ned Price said. He added the U.S. government shares "the goals of the ICC in promoting accountability for the worst crimes known to humanity."

 

The Trump administration had vehemently opposed the ICC.

 

Jamil Dakwar, director of the American Civil Liberties Union's Human Rights Program, said U.S. President Joe Biden should do nothing to undermine the ICC's independence.

 

"It's important to remember that the ICC investigation would also target Palestinian perpetrators of war crimes in the context of hostilities between Israel and Palestinian armed groups, especially in the Gaza Strip," Dakwar said on Twitter.

 

(Reporting by Toby Sterling, Anthony Deutsch, Stephanie van den Berg, Ari Rabinovitch, Stephen Farrell, Nidal al-Mughrabi, Arshad Mohammed, Humeyra Pamuk and Simon Lewis; Editing by Aurora Ellis and Daniel Wallis)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2021-02-06

 

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[PatOngo]

7 minutes ago, rooster59 said:

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu denounced the decision, saying in a video statement: "When the ICC investigates Israel for fake war crimes, this is pure antisemitism."

So, are you getting the message Benjamin??? Fake is your opinion!

[Morch]

Bensouda's term ends June 2021. I doubt that there will be any meaningful developments until then. Whether investigations go on etc. will be up to her successor. Guess there will be a whole lot of lobbying from parties involved.

 

As for the decision itself, on the one hand the claim is that the decision is not political, but de-facto that's just what it is. Since Israel is neither a member of the ICC and boycotting the proceedings, there probably won't be much of an appeal (unless a third party can initiate one - not clear about that).

 

Given that neither party is about to cooperate with investigations into their respective share of the violence, the  potential findings will be founded on less that solid ground, and basically amounting to yet more fodder for the endless propaganda from both sides.

 

With regards to the illegal settlement effort, a bit different as there's plenty of accessible evidence that's not as contested (plus a way wider international consensus). The problem I see with this going anywhere much is that the court's actions (and even investigation's findings) may target specific people (usually higher up the food chain), but as per reversing a decades long policy? Doubtful.

 

Either way, this is bound to be a slow going affair, judging by previous investigations and proceedings. Going to be a long while before it would become an actual issue for people named therein.

[VocalNeal]

Aha. Closing in on Carlos Ghosn?

[PatOngo]

5 minutes ago, ezzra said:

Really Mr. Patongo mate? so you think you know everything about Israel-Palestinians affairs to come up with this nonsense of a post? this bias fat cow Fatou Bensouda has targeted Israeli politicians and army personal trying to drag them into the ICC court in the Huge without any success, she'll be gone soon and not a moment too soon...

How's life in the Occupied Territories, Mr Ezzra? Who killed Yasser Arafat?

[2530Ubon]

1 hour ago, rooster59 said:

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu denounced the decision, saying in a video statement: "When the ICC investigates Israel for fake war crimes, this is pure antisemitism."

 

Hang on a minute... So it's ok for you to prosecute 95 year old ladies who worked as secretaries when they were minors during the war: 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55953967

 

But it's not okay to prosecute Israel for any crimes because it's automatically antisemetic? Sort it out Benjamin.

[Patong2021]

42 minutes ago, PatOngo said:

How's life in the Occupied Territories, Mr Ezzra? Who killed Yasser Arafat?

Ask his widow.  He was almost 62 years  when he married a woman almost 35 years younger.  He left a widow very rich living the Issan dream, I think. . She has beautiful homes in Malta and France.  No living with the common people for her.

[Tarteso]

I have never been an anti-Semite, but that vile blockade killer tactic by which they push the people of Gaza to the brink of despair.
 

And this is the LIFE in the occupied territories, Mr. Pattongo; Currently 95% of the water is not drinkable, they only have access to 4 hours of electricity a day and the unemployment rate is 45% without the ability to move freely to other areas.  The Palestinian State has little chance of survival to defend their land.

 

I hope that this Lady Prosecutor manages to accuse Israel of war crimes, once and for all.

Edited February 6, 2021 by Tarteso

[ezzra]

57 minutes ago, PatOngo said:

How's life in the Occupied Territories, Mr Ezzra? Who killed Yasser Arafat?

What do you know about ' life in the occupied territories" huh? beyond what you read from bias antisemitic sources? fro your information, the ICC has authorized the spacial prosecutor to indict all, Hamas, the Palestinians and the Israelis on war crimes charges. it pays to read up and learn before making irresponsible snide remarks...

[PatOngo]

1 minute ago, ezzra said:

What do you know about ' life in the occupied territories" huh? beyond what you read from bias antisemitic sources? fro your information, the ICC has authorized the spacial prosecutor to indict all, Hamas, the Palestinians and the Israelis on war crimes charges. it pays to read up and learn before making irresponsible snide remarks...

Did the Palestinians EVER steal land from the Israeli's? Did they EVER occupy Israeli land?

[Sujo]

5 minutes ago, ezzra said:

What do you know about ' life in the occupied territories" huh? beyond what you read from bias antisemitic sources? fro your information, the ICC has authorized the spacial prosecutor to indict all, Hamas, the Palestinians and the Israelis on war crimes charges. it pays to read up and learn before making irresponsible snide remarks...

Interesting you think Israel should not be investigated. Are they above the law? Free to do what they want?

[Morch]

8 minutes ago, Tarteso said:

I have never been an anti-Semite, but that vile blockade killer tactic by which they push the people of Gaza to the brink of despair.
 

And this is the LIFE in the occupied territories, Mr. Pattongo; Currently 95% of the water is not drinkable, they only have access to 4 hours of electricity a day and the unemployment rate is 45% without the ability to move freely to other areas.  The Palestinian State has little chance of survival to defend their land.

 

I hope that this Lady Prosecutor manages to accuse Israel of war crimes, once and for all.

 

The proposed ICC investigation is not concerned with the blockade on the Gaza Strip as such. And to be clear, the blockade is maintained by Egypt as well.

 

I would suggest educating oneself before posting - life in the West Bank is not quite the same as life in the Gaza Strip. Also, the two areas have separate leaderships with different agenda, policies and attitudes - if you feel this got nothing to do with the situation in the Gaza Strip, we'll have to disagree. There is no Palestinian State as such, at this time. And even what is is divided between the two leaderships.

 

Those not invested in Israel bashing would notice that the investigation also mentions war crimes by the Hamas.

[Morch]

8 minutes ago, PatOngo said:

Did the Palestinians EVER steal land from the Israeli's? Did they EVER occupy Israeli land?

 

They would if they were in a position to do so.

[Sujo]

3 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

They would if they were in a position to do so.

So the answer is no.

 

But we do know Israel does.

[PatOngo]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

They would if they were in a position to do so.

Well I guess they need to throw a few more rocks at the Israeli Apache helicopters, they might gain an edge, what do you think?

[Sujo]

Just now, PatOngo said:

Well I guess they need to throw a few more rocks at the Israeli Apache helicopters, they might gain an edge, what do you think?

Israel will now ban rocks from being there.

[PatOngo]

Just now, Sujo said:

Israel will now ban rocks from being there.

No, they'll use them as aggregate for concrete to continue building in the  Occupied Territories!

[Pattaya Spotter]

3 hours ago, rooster59 said:

International Criminal Court says it has jurisdiction in Palestinian territories

President Trump and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo told the ICC what they can do with their jurisdiction...I suggest the Israelis do likewise. 

 

U.S. blacklists ICC prosecutor over Afghanistan war crimes probe

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States...imposed sanctions on International Criminal Court prosecutor Fatou Bensouda...over her investigation into whether American forces committed war crimes in Afghanistan. https://www.reuters.com/article/usa-icc-sanctions-int/u-s-blacklists-icc-prosecutor-over-afghanistan-war-crimes-probe-idUSKBN25T2EB

 

Trump Administration Sanctions ICC Prosecutor Investigating Alleged U.S. War Crimes

 

The Trump Administration has leveled sanctions against the International Criminal Court's chief prosecutor, who is investigating allegations that U.S. troops committed war crimes in Afghanistan. https://www.npr.org/2020/09/02/908896108/trump-administration-sanctions-icc-prosecutor-investigating-alleged-u-s-war-crim

[ezzra]

34 minutes ago, Sujo said:

Interesting you think Israel should not be investigated. Are they above the law? Free to do what they want?

Never said that, if you read my post you will see that all parties Israel, the Palestinians and the Hamas will be investigated...

[Sujo]

1 minute ago, ezzra said:

Never said that, if you read my post you will see that all parties Israel, the Palestinians and the Hamas will be investigated...

So thats a good thing right? And all should comply with the investigation.

[Tarteso]

29 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

The proposed ICC investigation is not concerned with the blockade on the Gaza Strip as such. And to be clear, the blockade is maintained by Egypt as well.

 

I would suggest educating oneself before posting - life in the West Bank is not quite the same as life in the Gaza Strip. Also, the two areas have separate leaderships with different agenda, policies and attitudes - if you feel this got nothing to do with the situation in the Gaza Strip, we'll have to disagree. There is no Palestinian State as such, at this time. And even what is is divided between the two leaderships.

 

Those not invested in Israel bashing would notice that the investigation also mentions war crimes by the Hamas.

That’s right about Hamas, but I have my own criteria and point of view very clear, especially when it comes to humanitarian issues.  If the United Nations recognizes the borders, logically there is a Palestinian State even if it lacks independence. 

[Sujo]

11 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

President Trump and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo told the ICC what they can do with their jurisdiction...I suggest the Israelis do likewise. 

 

U.S. blacklists ICC prosecutor over Afghanistan war crimes probe

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States...imposed sanctions on International Criminal Court prosecutor Fatou Bensouda...over her investigation into whether American forces committed war crimes in Afghanistan. https://www.reuters.com/article/usa-icc-sanctions-int/u-s-blacklists-icc-prosecutor-over-afghanistan-war-crimes-probe-idUSKBN25T2EB

 

Trump Administration Sanctions ICC Prosecutor Investigating Alleged U.S. War Crimes

 

The Trump Administration has leveled sanctions against the International Criminal Court's chief prosecutor, who is investigating allegations that U.S. troops committed war crimes in Afghanistan. https://www.npr.org/2020/09/02/908896108/trump-administration-sanctions-icc-prosecutor-investigating-alleged-u-s-war-crim

You think its ok that no country should be investigated for war crimes?

[Sujo]

1 minute ago, Tarteso said:

That’s right about Hamas, but I have my own criteria and point of view very clear, especially when it comes to humanitarian issues.  If the United Nations recognizes the borders, logically there is a Palestinian State even if it lacks independence. 

About 200 countries already recognize a palestinian state, which is good.

[ezzra]

41 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

The proposed ICC investigation is not concerned with the blockade on the Gaza Strip as such. And to be clear, the blockade is maintained by Egypt as well.

 

I would suggest educating oneself before posting - life in the West Bank is not quite the same as life in the Gaza Strip. Also, the two areas have separate leaderships with different agenda, policies and attitudes - if you feel this got nothing to do with the situation in the Gaza Strip, we'll have to disagree. There is no Palestinian State as such, at this time. And even what is is divided between the two leaderships.

 

Those not invested in Israel bashing would notice that the investigation also mentions war crimes by the Hamas.

Wasted breath trying to educate people with build in hatred and preconceived ideas and notions that Israel and the jews are always the evil one and the Palestinians are the poor underdogs.. and there are no shortage of them in this forum...

Edited February 6, 2021 by ezzra

[Sujo]

2 minutes ago, ezzra said:

Wasted breath on people with build in hatred and preconceived ideas and notion that Israel is always the evil one and the Palestinians are the poor under dogs.. and there are no shortage of them in this forum...

You think palestinians have the upper hand?

[Morch]

40 minutes ago, Sujo said:

So the answer is no.

 

But we do know Israel does.

 

No, the answer was what it was. If they could, they would. From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free. Rings a bell? Also, many among them do not recognize any of the land as being Israel anyway.

 

I think you're aware of my views regarding the Israeli occupation, and if not, maybe the 'illegal' bit in a post above would give a clue.

[Morch]

44 minutes ago, PatOngo said:

Well I guess they need to throw a few more rocks at the Israeli Apache helicopters, they might gain an edge, what do you think?

 

One stone at a time, eh? Again, what you post goes toward the Palestinian being unable to fulfill such wishes, not that they do not have them.

[Morch]

28 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

President Trump and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo told the ICC what they can do with their jurisdiction...I suggest the Israelis do likewise. 

 

U.S. blacklists ICC prosecutor over Afghanistan war crimes probe

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States...imposed sanctions on International Criminal Court prosecutor Fatou Bensouda...over her investigation into whether American forces committed war crimes in Afghanistan. https://www.reuters.com/article/usa-icc-sanctions-int/u-s-blacklists-icc-prosecutor-over-afghanistan-war-crimes-probe-idUSKBN25T2EB

 

Trump Administration Sanctions ICC Prosecutor Investigating Alleged U.S. War Crimes

 

The Trump Administration has leveled sanctions against the International Criminal Court's chief prosecutor, who is investigating allegations that U.S. troops committed war crimes in Afghanistan. https://www.npr.org/2020/09/02/908896108/trump-administration-sanctions-icc-prosecutor-investigating-alleged-u-s-war-crim

 

Trump is history. So is Pompeo. And in all probability, these measures will be rolled back in due course.

[Morch]

19 minutes ago, Sujo said:

So thats a good thing right? And all should comply with the investigation.

 

If the investigation is seen as even-handed or legitimate, yes. Or, for that matter, if parties acknowledge the court's authority to begin with.

 

With Israel, such compliance is relatively straightforward (if it was to happen, that is). With the Palestinian side, not so much. Hamas does not answer to the Palestinian Authority, and there's no mechanism in place to apply court rulings regarding the Hamas.

[OneMoreFarang]

Anybody who has nothing to hide should welcome international investigations.

They only reason to oppose these investigations is that they have something to hide and/or know they are guilty.