Why Skytrain fare hike may end up wrecking Bangkok’s mass-transit success story

[Knobby37]

Poor logic, less travellers, charge more to compensate

[KamalaRider]

10 hours ago, Andrew65 said:

Not Thailand, but on the same subject. I recently had to travel the 100 miles (160 km) to London rtn recently. It cost around £90 on the train, all-up, probably could've done it for £70 by car.

What, you're driving a customized Humvee with two engines?

[bangon04]

11 hours ago, crickets said:

Still less than half the price we pay in Australia

are you advocating Thai average pay scales for Australia???

[bangon04]

4 hours ago, possum1931 said:

This is Thailand, the less people that use it, the more expensive it will get. 

so are we due for a hike in Taxi prices in BKK?

[DBath]

$$$$

Edited February 8, 2021 by DBath

[mogandave]

5 hours ago, sprq said:

Wonderful city planning there. You have absolutely no idea how urban transport should be organised so as to benefit everybody and make an efficient city. But you have fellow thinkers in all the power positions in Bangkok, so enjoy the company of all those duffers who ruin the city.

 

If it is supposed to benefit everyone, why not just make it free and let as many people pack in as can get in? 

 

As I understand it, light rail is supposed to reduce traffic. Pricing it such that you get people to leave their car at home, or to not take a taxi is the way to do that, not getting people that are currently riding the bus to start riding the train. 

 

Are busses not part of the “urban transport” that makes for an “efficient city”? 

 

 

[the green light]

14 hours ago, miamiman123 said:

If we can’t get it from the farang’s….let’s hit up the locals ….

the Thais 

there are not much tourism in thailand. Wait to see the government add a fee such as " amenities inflation adjusted fee " on your next trip to immigration to subsidize the cheap transportation.

 

that means the local Thai people will need to spend Bt208 per day for going to work. or shopping. when the average wages per day is BT 400 in Bangkok .. Cheaper  to take the taxi for short trips. 

[Nout]

4 hours ago, SupermarineS6B said:

It was hell driving around Bkk then, and if you got stuck in traffic and it rained like i once did in Sukhumvit, the road used to flood and all the rats would come out of the drains in a fountain of filth and rodents..... Oh yes, truly a memorable experience when your foot pedals are underwater......  Walking down Suk trying not to fall down a hole and hopefully not meet a crocodile, they had some escape years ago from a zoo or somewhere, probably Samut Prakarn, so Bkk became even more interesting.....  Yep, the skytrain is a blessing..... 

I walk a lot. Sukhumvit Soi 33 to Asoke non prob...but when the RTS was being built around 1990 when I was there the dust and footpaths were hell and it was before taxis were metered

[the green light]

34 minutes ago, DBath said:

$$$$

this is an impact on NO tourism.

they make the block of train commuters too

From the inception of the BTS years back , it was always assume that Bt 40 riding fee was excessive to the Thai common person. 

 

the fare rate has been going up and up to build more rail and connecting the city .the profit is a long term proposition.

Income has sustain the logic of taking the trains instead raise the rate to be profitable immediately.

 

the government has to subsidize the commuter train for many years in order to reduce pollution. otherwise the BTS and MRT -red blue or green or yellow lines will be obsolete

just like the airport link.

 

However the government is interested in submarines and going to the moon.

total useless dreams.

 

[Nout]

3 hours ago, SupermarineS6B said:

Unfortunately a lot of situations in Thailand end up with a local not paying one way or the other..... That was why the initial Hopewell Skytrain was ditched early on, the stonehenge eyesore that stood outside of Don Muang airport for years was because the government welched on payment. Same reason why the MRT had to get Chinese trains in later on because they owed so much to Siemens and Siemens wouldn't supply anymore without payment....... The rumbly trains with the bad jerky braking are the Chinese ones......   Sticky fingers again........

TAKSIN got it done!

[kevvy]

13 hours ago, crickets said:

Still less than half the price we pay in Australia

with the average wage in Australia the cost of transport is cheap , you can get a daily ticket to use on trains , buses and trams for $9.00 and can use it all day , that is zone 1 and 2 . .Just have to buy a myki card

[Morty T]

14 hours ago, crickets said:

Still less than half the price we pay in Australia

The HOURLY minimum wage in Australia is B457, the minimum DAILY wage in Thailand is B330. 

[kiwikeith]

17 hours ago, chasboyuk said:

I know but this is meant to be local transport, encourage the public to use instead of the car.
Trains in the UK are shockingly expensive especially for the lack of service u get. 

Have they been privatised, that usually sends prices through the roof, power in Nz went from 4 cents a unit to near 60 with privatisation, although it was going to create competition and be good for you. 

[Advocate]

22 hours ago, chasboyuk said:

I know but this is meant to be local transport, encourage the public to use instead of the car.
Trains in the UK are shockingly expensive especially for the lack of service u get. 

I worked in London in 1978 and it cost me per day the same as it had cost me per week in Australia to travel by train for similar distances for my daily commute to work. I chose to drive after a week of London train travel because driving was cheaper and often faster except for evening traffic jams.

 

Nothing in the UK was cheap, even in 1978, especially public transport.

 

Conversely public transport was considerably cheaper in France. In 2012 one could travel from Nice, to or through Monaco, to Menton in Italy for 1 Euro one way.

[KKr]

On 2/8/2021 at 2:41 AM, webfact said:

MPs from Bhumjaithai Party, which is in charge of the Transport Ministry,

Now that confuses me, I always thought the Ministry reports to Parliament .
Silly me !

So skytrain decided that it wants to be more expensive than a motorbike taxi,
so much for thinking in a bigger picture.

[KKr]

10 hours ago, Morty T said:

The HOURLY minimum wage in Australia is B457, the minimum DAILY wage in Thailand is B330. 

therefore the Australian ticket could, for 6-8 hours paid working hours daily, be 8-11 times more expensive, yet still be cheaper than in Thailand

[Andrew65]

17 hours ago, KamalaRider said:

What, you're driving a customized Humvee with two engines?

It would probably cost me £40 in petrol (maybe 7 gallons of 'gasoline') to drive the 250'ish miles to Bangkok Bank in Aldwych, London. So with £10'ish congestion charge, and £10'ish parking, £60'ish, all-up. As I mentioned, even adding some for mileage/wear & tear, cheaper than the trains.

[Andrew65]

20 hours ago, Albaby said:

Being over 60 it costs me $2.50 for a return trip 440km to Sydney.

Many years ago, when working in Australia, I visited my cousin in Kiama by train, from Sydney Central station (via Woolongong). I think it cost around $12 rtn for the ticket. I remember thinking that that ticket would cost $60-$70 in the UK.

[blakegeee]

On 2/8/2021 at 7:36 AM, crickets said:

Still less than half the price we pay in Australia

 

But Thai's don't get paid roughly half of what Australians get paid, do they? 

[Monkeyrobot]

On 2/8/2021 at 6:55 AM, SoilSpoil said:

104 baht gets you quite a distance in a taxi. 

Especially if it’s a family of four , why pay  416 Baht when you can get a cab for 100B 

[brianthainess]

On 2/8/2021 at 7:36 AM, crickets said:

Still less than half the price we pay in Australia

And your daily wage is?

[brianthainess]

On 2/9/2021 at 1:26 PM, blakegeee said:

On 2/8/2021 at 7:36 AM, crickets said:

Still less than half the price we pay in Australia

 

But Thai's don't get paid roughly half of what Australians get paid, do they? 

OZ min wage about 335,000 baht a month 5 day week. Thai 10,000 a month. or au$19.50 an hour. Thai min wage less than AU$ 1 an hour 

[josephbloggs]

2 hours ago, brianthainess said:

OZ min wage about 335,000 baht a month 5 day week. Thai 10,000 a month. or au$19.50 an hour. Thai min wage less than AU$ 1 an hour 

So in Australia people flipping burgers, sweeping the streets, working as labourers, are earning $130k USD a year are they?

[mogandave]

On 2/13/2021 at 12:54 PM, josephbloggs said:

So in Australia people flipping burgers, sweeping the streets, working as labourers, are earning $130k USD a year are they?

 

Actually, he claims minimum wage in Australia is over US$134K a year, or AUD173K. 

 

In any event, what does the minimum wage have to do with the cost of a ticket? 

 

 

[Lakegeneve]

On 2/13/2021 at 12:54 PM, josephbloggs said:

So in Australia people flipping burgers, sweeping the streets, working as labourers, are earning $130k USD a year are they?

Of course they aren't.

 

However, non skilled min wages of AU$25-$30 p/h are common and that can be as an 18 yr old McDonalds and as a 50 yr old labourer. (No one sweeps streets in Oz like the BMA has in BKK) Tax rates are of course higher than Thailand but then so is both cost and standard of living. Oz did have the highest min wage in the world a few years ago.

 

However, the main issue is comparing networks and ticket prices and then adjust for ave salaries. 

 

For the 2 largest cities in Oz, Syd and Melb - both over 5m pop - you can purchase daily fares at far below what is on offer in BKK AND access a huge network of trains, trams, buses and ferries (in Sydney). 

 

For Sydney a daily is AU$17 (394 baht) and weekly is capped at AU$50 (1158) 

- That gives you use of the whole suburban and metro train network (813km) ; https://transportnsw.info/sydney-trains-network-map 

-the 3 line Light Rail network; https://transportnsw.info/sydney-lightrail-network-map (a 4th is being built)

-Ferry network; https://transportnsw.info/sydney-ferries-network-map

- and hundreds of bus routes

 

For Melb a daily is AU$9 (208) and weekly is AU$45 (1042). If you purchase monthly or yearly tickets the daily cost can be as low as AU$5

- again an extensive train network (998km) https://www.ptv.vic.gov.au/assets/PTV-default-site/Maps-and-Timetables-PDFs/Maps/Network-maps/0c96079d1f/Victorian-train-network-map.pdf - some lines are 50km long

- the worlds largest tram network (250km), https://www.ptv.vic.gov.au/assets/default-site/Maps-and-Timetables-PDFs/Maps/Network-maps/417bb4810a/PTV_Tram-Network-Map_2017.pdf

- and hundreds of bus routes

 

Indeed, in many european cities you can purchase a daily ticket accessing a large network for less than what is costs in BKK.

 

In BKK, I can purchase a BTS daily for 140 baht (AU$6.00) to travel on 2 lines of under 70km in total! I then need to purchase the same for the MRT and buy a separate ticket for the ARL and any SRT commuter lines. BMTA doesn't offer daily tickets but you can purchase a weekly for 270 baht (air-con buses). 

 

The comparison is a little apples and oranges given BKKs still relatively infant metro network. The main issue is the lack of a single operator with the preferred private concessionaire model promoting separate, independent networks and the failure of successive govts to force all operators to integrate ticketing as the Mangamoon platform is meant to do. Common ticketing was first promised in 2008 - between the BTS and MRT.

[Eindhoven]

On 2/9/2021 at 5:30 AM, Andrew65 said:

It would probably cost me £40 in petrol (maybe 7 gallons of 'gasoline') to drive the 250'ish miles to Bangkok Bank in Aldwych, London. So with £10'ish congestion charge, and £10'ish parking, £60'ish, all-up. As I mentioned, even adding some for mileage/wear & tear, cheaper than the trains.

 

You left out the ULEZ: https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone

[mogandave]

On 2/14/2021 at 8:50 PM, Lakegeneve said:

Of course they aren't.

 

However, non skilled min wages of AU$25-$30 p/h are common and that can be as an 18 yr old McDonalds and as a 50 yr old labourer. (No one sweeps streets in Oz like the BMA has in BKK) Tax rates are of course higher than Thailand but then so is both cost and standard of living. Oz did have the highest min wage in the world a few years ago.

 

However, the main issue is comparing networks and ticket prices and then adjust for ave salaries. 

 

For the 2 largest cities in Oz, Syd and Melb - both over 5m pop - you can purchase daily fares at far below what is on offer in BKK AND access a huge network of trains, trams, buses and ferries (in Sydney). 

 

For Sydney a daily is AU$17 (394 baht) and weekly is capped at AU$50 (1158) 

- That gives you use of the whole suburban and metro train network (813km) ; https://transportnsw.info/sydney-trains-network-map 

-the 3 line Light Rail network; https://transportnsw.info/sydney-lightrail-network-map (a 4th is being built)

-Ferry network; https://transportnsw.info/sydney-ferries-network-map

- and hundreds of bus routes

 

For Melb a daily is AU$9 (208) and weekly is AU$45 (1042). If you purchase monthly or yearly tickets the daily cost can be as low as AU$5

- again an extensive train network (998km) https://www.ptv.vic.gov.au/assets/PTV-default-site/Maps-and-Timetables-PDFs/Maps/Network-maps/0c96079d1f/Victorian-train-network-map.pdf - some lines are 50km long

- the worlds largest tram network (250km), https://www.ptv.vic.gov.au/assets/default-site/Maps-and-Timetables-PDFs/Maps/Network-maps/417bb4810a/PTV_Tram-Network-Map_2017.pdf

- and hundreds of bus routes

 

Indeed, in many european cities you can purchase a daily ticket accessing a large network for less than what is costs in BKK.

 

In BKK, I can purchase a BTS daily for 140 baht (AU$6.00) to travel on 2 lines of under 70km in total! I then need to purchase the same for the MRT and buy a separate ticket for the ARL and any SRT commuter lines. BMTA doesn't offer daily tickets but you can purchase a weekly for 270 baht (air-con buses). 

 

The comparison is a little apples and oranges given BKKs still relatively infant metro network. The main issue is the lack of a single operator with the preferred private concessionaire model promoting separate, independent networks and the failure of successive govts to force all operators to integrate ticketing as the Mangamoon platform is meant to do. Common ticketing was first promised in 2008 - between the BTS and MRT.

 

Again, what do wages have to do with what a ticket costs? 

 

The trains seem to run pretty full. Will not cutting the price overcrowd the trains and negative impact the ridership on busses and taxies? 

 

Mid you think it should be for everyone, why not just make it free?

[spidermike007]

There are so many reasons for the government to subsidize the BTS and MRT, and keep the pricing low. They claim reducing congestion and air pollution is a priority. Action speaks so much louder than hollow words, with nothing behind them, in terms of commitment and sacrifice. Right now, it would appear the do nothing guys are doing next to nothing to tackle the environmental plague facing the nation. 

 

This is just another indication of the callous disregard for the masses, and their difficult financial plight, at this time. This tone deaf, ivory tower administration continues to demonstrate their unworthiness on a daily basis. If they want to demonstrate they are serious people, and care about the interests of both the people and the future of the nation, they need to start making some sacrifices. So far, only the masses are making sacrifices, with no concessions from the multi millionaire leaders. Barely any assistance in this time of crisis. And now this? Seriously? I suggest Prayuth begin by giving up the ridiculous submarine vanity project. Show us something. Show us any reason why you guys deserve to remain in power. 

 

I hope the youth continue to seek the ouster of the incompetent dinosaurs. May their cause prevail. May Thailand finally wake up, and be able to move in a forward direction. 

Edited March 13, 2021 by spidermike007