UK had 'one or two' Brexit teething issues on fishing, minister says

[welovesundaysatspace]

6 minutes ago, candide said:

it obviously slowed down the process. However, they chose to join the scheme, and each country could have chosen not to participate.

It only slowed down the process for bigger countries like Germany or France maybe, who would have had enough clout to procure vaccines themselves. For all the other, much smaller countries, the bundled procurement is a blessing, because they would have ended up at the very end of the queue otherwise, similar to what happened the year before with the procurement of equipment. So if anything it’s the Germans and French that could complain, but then the EU is about solidarity, not to mention that better conditions the EU was able to negotiate given its clout. 

[stevenl]

8 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

So I ask again - how were those numbers from Bloomberg arrived at? Or do you just believe any numbers that are thrown at you? 

I'd like to know how much of that figure is directly and definitely attributable to Brexit, and how much of it is just conjecture. 

 

Pro-EU companies like Bloomberg would blame Brexit for Coronavirus if they could get away with it! 

 

I would trust the opinion and research of a well respected organisation like Bloomberg trust well over the opinion of TVF contributors, whose sole contribution is 'tripe' or 'i don't agree, who the hell is Bloomberg'.

[CG1 Blue]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

I would trust the opinion and research of a well respected organisation like Bloomberg trust well over the opinion of TVF contributors, whose sole contribution is 'tripe' or 'i don't agree, who the hell is Bloomberg'.

Well this TVF contributor is not claiming to know the negative impact on GDP caused by Brexit. Bloomberg are making this claim, so I am asking to see the calculations. 

If you choose to simply believe the number they give you without seeing the proof, simply because they are 'well respected', then that's up to you. 

[Rookiescot]

8 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

Well this TVF contributor is not claiming to know the negative impact on GDP caused by Brexit. Bloomberg are making this claim, so I am asking to see the calculations. 

If you choose to simply believe the number they give you without seeing the proof, simply because they are 'well respected', then that's up to you. 

 

But you believed the 350 million written on the side of a bus?

[Tofer]

18 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

It only slowed down the process for bigger countries like Germany or France maybe, who would have had enough clout to procure vaccines themselves. For all the other, much smaller countries, the bundled procurement is a blessing, because they would have ended up at the very end of the queue otherwise, similar to what happened the year before with the procurement of equipment. So if anything it’s the Germans and French that could complain, but then the EU is about solidarity, not to mention that better conditions the EU was able to negotiate given its clout. 

 

Not so much of a blessing when the EU citizens are so far behind in the roll out of the vaccine.

 

Hardly better conditions when you're at the back of the queue for vaccines, and not much solidarity in the EU either with many MEPs calling for UvdL's resignation over the failings.

[Tofer]

22 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

So Brexiteers cured corona ????????????????????????????

 

I never said they did. Read and comprehend before you respond in future, might be good advice.

 

22 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

There was nothing forcing countries within the EU to join the EU's joint vaccination program. They did so because they wanted to work together. If we had still been in the EU we could have either joined it or stayed separate.  

 

Is that so, so why didn't they, when they could see what a hash UvdL was making of it??

Or are they all happy to be waiting at the back of the queue - I don't think so, not from what I hear on the news, with regular criticism and calls for her resignation.....

[Rookiescot]

3 minutes ago, Tofer said:

 

I never said they did. Read and comprehend before you respond in future, might be good advice.

 

 

Is that so, so why didn't they, when they could see what a hash UvdL was making of it??

Or are they all happy to be waiting at the back of the queue - I don't think so, not from what I hear on the news, with regular criticism and calls for her resignation.....

 

What you did was try and claim the success of the vaccine roll out is down to Brexit. I and several others have pointed out to you that this is in fact not true. 

I suggest you follow your own advice regarding reading and comprehension. 

[Tofer]

18 hours ago, candide said:

The same distorted fact again! It has been made while UK was still subject to EU law and in accordance with EU law. So it has proved to be possible within the EU.

18 hours ago, candide said:

EU countries have chosen to follow a common approach rather than compete with each other to get vaccine supplies, and it obviously slowed down the process. However, they chose to join the scheme, and each country could have chosen not to participate.

 

Quite incorrect, we were in a transition period, and had no sitting MEPs to be able to vote on the subject, if in fact there was one?

 

 

[Tofer]

13 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

What you did was try and claim the success of the vaccine roll out is down to Brexit. I and several others have pointed out to you that this is in fact not true. 

I suggest you follow your own advice regarding reading and comprehension. 

 

There you go again, trying to twist it to suit your agenda....

 

Show me where I mention Brexit in my post, repeated below?

 

""The vaccine programme has been established by the government with advance funding and orders for vaccine, well in advance of what would have been possible, and has proved to be so, within the EU.""

 

This was a response to the post claiming it was all due to the endeavours of the NHS. Brexit was never mentioned.

 

 

Edited February 20, 2021 by Tofer

[welovesundaysatspace]

24 minutes ago, Tofer said:

 

Not so much of a blessing when the EU citizens are so far behind in the roll out of the vaccine.

 

Hardly better conditions when you're at the back of the queue for vaccines,

As I wrote already, most EU citizens don’t live in Germany, France or the UK, and would have been much more “far behind”

or “at the back of the queue” without the joint procurement. 

 

24 minutes ago, Tofer said:

and not much solidarity in the EU either

When bigger countries and its citizens accept a slower vaccination for the benefit of the majority of smaller countries and their citizens, then that’s called solidarity. 
 

24 minutes ago, Tofer said:

with many MEPs calling for UvdL's resignation over the failings.

Utter nonsense. 

[candide]

18 minutes ago, Tofer said:

 

Quite incorrect, we were in a transition period, and had no sitting MEPs to be able to vote on the subject, if in fact there was one?

 

 

During the transition period, the EU law applied. As to the vaccine joint procurement program, It's an initiative, not a law.

[RayC]

3 hours ago, Tofer said:

 

..  and not much solidarity in the EU either with many MEPs calling for UvdL's resignation over the failings.

 

So rather than hold UvdL and others to account for this failure, MEPs should have showed solidarity by remaining silent and brushing things under the carpet?

[Loiner]

5 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

 

But you believed the 350 million written on the side of a bus?

You’ve no idea what anybody believed, plastered on the side of a bus or not. 

 

Only the party faithful would readily believe the spin and twist published in the Remainer rags. There is a constant supply of ex-spurts creating pseudo economic facts for their for their consumption. The same newspapers and creative economists have all so far been wrong. 

[Rookiescot]

3 hours ago, Tofer said:

 

There you go again, trying to twist it to suit your agenda....

 

Show me where I mention Brexit in my post, repeated below?

 

""The vaccine programme has been established by the government with advance funding and orders for vaccine, well in advance of what would have been possible, and has proved to be so, within the EU.""

 

This was a response to the post claiming it was all due to the endeavours of the NHS. Brexit was never mentioned.

 

 

Twisting? Trying to nail down your evasiveness would be closer to it.

So you have openly (and wrongly) claimed that the success of the vaccine program would not have been possible while we were in the EU.

 

"The vaccine programme has been established by the government with advance funding and orders for vaccine, well in advance of what would have been possible, and has proved to be so, within the EU."

 

Ergo without Brexit our own vaccine procurement would not have been possible.

 

I and several others have pointed out that it would have been possible because as we were in the transition period its what happened.  Do you understand this crucial detail? We ordered the vaccines while we were effectively still subject to EU rules and regulations.

 

You Brexiteers cannot dine out on the success of the vaccination because Brexit has nothing to do with it.

It is the dedication and professionalism of the NHS which has made it such a success.  

[Rookiescot]

5 minutes ago, Loiner said:

You’ve no idea what anybody believed, plastered on the side of a bus or not. 

 

Only the party faithful would readily believe the spin and twist published in the Remainer rags. There is a constant supply of ex-spurts creating pseudo economic facts for their for their consumption. The same newspapers and creative economists have all so far been wrong. 

 

And there is a constant supply of non experts making baseless statements because its what they want to believe.

[Rookiescot]

Anyway I'm off to the pub.

Have a good weekend guys.

[CG1 Blue]

6 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

 

But you believed the 350 million written on the side of a bus?

When you run out of answers, use the bus joke! Well you got 6 laugh emojis from your fellow bitter remainers - well done ????

[CG1 Blue]

4 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

 

What you did was try and claim the success of the vaccine roll out is down to Brexit. I and several others have pointed out to you that this is in fact not true. 

I suggest you follow your own advice regarding reading and comprehension. 

It is true. If the UK had still been a full EU member state we would have been obliged to wait while the EMA approved the vaccines at a snail's pace. Yes the EU rules would technically allow member states to temporarily license a vaccine prior to EMA approval, but there is no way we'd have become a rogue state if we hadn't left the club. 

[Surelynot]

1 minute ago, CG1 Blue said:

but there is no way we'd have become a rogue state

...like we didn't opt out the Euro...like we didn't opt out the Schengen Agreement....like we didn't demand rebates......that kind of a rogue state?

[Tofer]

4 hours ago, candide said:

During the transition period, the EU law applied. As to the vaccine joint procurement program, It's an initiative, not a law.

 

Make your mind up, it was law in your last reference;

 

Quote;

 

"The same distorted fact again! It has been made while UK was still subject to EU law and in accordance with EU law. So it has proved to be possible within the EU."

 

Changing the facts again to suit your argument.

[candide]

2 minutes ago, Tofer said:

 

Make your mind up, it was law in your last reference;

 

Quote;

 

"The same distorted fact again! It has been made while UK was still subject to EU law and in accordance with EU law. So it has proved to be possible within the EU."

 

Changing the facts again to suit your argument.

No change of fact. The joint program is not a law, it is allowed by EU law, and it is also allowed by EU law not to join it.

Let's make it more clear:

- the decision not to join the vaccine purchase program was authorised under EU law, which was still applied during the transition period

- the decision of emergency authorisation of a vaccine was also authorised by EU law

- additionally, the joint vaccine program itself is not a law, so did not need to be voted by MEPs (you evoked it in your reply)

 

So it is proven that the UK policy would have been possible in the EU, because decisions have actually been made in accordance with EU law, at a time UK was still subject to EU law.

[Tofer]

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

Twisting? Trying to nail down your evasiveness would be closer to it.

So you have openly (and wrongly) claimed that the success of the vaccine program would not have been possible while we were in the EU.

 

"The vaccine programme has been established by the government with advance funding and orders for vaccine, well in advance of what would have been possible, and has proved to be so, within the EU."

 

Ergo without Brexit our own vaccine procurement would not have been possible.

 

I and several others have pointed out that it would have been possible because as we were in the transition period its what happened.  Do you understand this crucial detail? We ordered the vaccines while we were effectively still subject to EU rules and regulations.

 

You Brexiteers cannot dine out on the success of the vaccination because Brexit has nothing to do with it.

It is the dedication and professionalism of the NHS which has made it such a success.  

 

I retract my earlier comment, and accept that there was an implication in my earlier post that we did better outside of the EU, so in hindsight, I accept your comment that I had arguably made it contingent on Brexit. 

 

The UK government, whether conducting the process in blatant disregard for EU rules, regulations and laws or outside of the EU's influence / control as an initiative, were operating independently of the EU, i.e. Brexit, had orchestrated the procurement and scheduling of the vaccine roll out not the NHS, as I stated.

 

PS: The NHS are not the only ones administering the vaccine.

Don't get me wrong, I hold the NHS in high esteem, bit they were not the driving force behind funding and acquiring the vaccine and organising it's distribution, only physically sticking needles in arms.

 

4 hours ago, candide said:

During the transition period, the EU law applied. As to the vaccine joint procurement program, It's an initiative, not a law.

 

In other words, had we still been tied to the EU's influence, as were all the other 27 states, we would not have been able to make the success, that we did, of the vaccine roll out, which I think you must now admit was a result of Brexit.

 

 

Edited February 20, 2021 by Tofer

[Tofer]

2 minutes ago, candide said:

So it is proven that the UK policy would have been possible in the EU, because decisions have actually been made in accordance with EU law, at a time UK was still subject to EU law.

 

Call it what you like, rules, regulations, laws or simply an initiative. The UK outside the EU made independent arrangements, by virtue of the fact we had left and no longer were obliged to fit in with the EU directive.

[candide]

5 minutes ago, Tofer said:

 

Call it what you like, rules, regulations, laws or simply an initiative. The UK outside the EU made independent arrangements, by virtue of the fact we had left and no longer were obliged to fit in with the EU directive.

Are you that obtuse or just pretending to be?

The UK "independent arrangement" has been decided and implemented while EU law still applied in UK, and would have been allowed in the same way without Brexit.

 

As I wrote before, the joint program was not imposed by EU law, it was allowed by EU law. EU countries were allowed not to join.

[Tofer]

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

Anyway I'm off to the pub.

 

We look forward with bated breath to tomorrows barstool wisdom.... ????

[Tofer]

13 minutes ago, candide said:

Are you that obtuse or just pretending to be?

The UK "independent arrangement" has been decided and implemented while EU law still applied in UK, and would have been allowed in the same way without Brexit.

 

As I wrote before, the joint program was not imposed by EU law, it was allowed by EU law. EU countries were allowed not to join.

 

You're simply arguing semantics now.

 

The reality is that we made our own decisions as a consequence of being outside the influence of the EU, as an independent nation dealing with the issue in our own way, with our own funding, outside of the EU's finances and control. 

 

I doubt any EU state that decided to go it's own way would have received any support for the funding of the vaccines, hence they all fell in line with the UvdL's commissions directive, since they will be paying for the Covid fund for many years to come either way.

Edited February 20, 2021 by Tofer

[Sujo]

4 minutes ago, Tofer said:

 

You're simply arguing semantics now.

 

The reality is that we made our own decisions as a consequence of being outside the influence of the EU, as an independent nation dealing with the issue in our own way, with our own funding, outside of the EU's finances and control. 

 

I doubt any EU state that decided to go it's own way would have received any support for the funding of the vaccines, hence they all fell in line with the UvdL's commissions directive, since they will be paying for the Covid fund for many years to come either way.

Which the uk made whilst still in eu influence.

 

Is it that difficult to understand?

[candide]

3 minutes ago, Tofer said:

 

You're simply arguing semantics now.

 

The reality is that we made our own decisions as a consequence of being outside the influence of the EU, as an independent nation dealing with the issue in our own way, with our own funding, outside of the EU's finances and control. 

 

I doubt any EU state that decided to go it's own way would have received any support for the funding of the vaccines, hence they all fell in line with the UvdL's commissions directive, since they will be paying for the Covid fund for many years to come either way.

No semantics, facts! 

It's you who is arguing semantics!

You may hold any opinion you like, fact is that the decisions have been made and implemented while UK was still under EU law, and in accordance with EU law.

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, Tofer said:

 

We look forward with bated breath to tomorrows barstool wisdom.... ????

Well nearly 42 for £ where's the pub stool guys saying the £ will hit bottom.

[Loiner]

The only fact of any note in the great EU vaccine debacle is: 

 

We the U.K. had vaccines and were administering them. 

The EU couldn’t / wouldn’t / didn’t.