advise about overtsay visa

[DrJack54]

9 minutes ago, lexlam said:

Her point to pay the fines on Monday at cheagwattana to be free from any hassels or delaying there, just to the boarding directly, 

or another option, can be advised to go to the airport tomorrow and pay the fines? then be free till the flight time, as she will take the covid test early monday, 

One reason that I suggested go straight to airport is that pre covid that was pretty much the recommendation. As I understand it paying overstay at airport is an easy hassle free thing to do. Can't see how/why it would be different now. 

Ubonjoe will give you expert advice tomorrow am. Along with others that have had personal experience. I don't see advantage of attending immigration. 

[ericthai]

1 hour ago, lexlam said:

Her point to pay the fines on Monday at cheagwattana to be free from any hassels or delaying there, just to the boarding directly, 

or another option, can be advised to go to the airport tomorrow and pay the fines? then be free till the flight time, as she will take the covid test early monday, 

To pay overstay at the airport takes 5 - 10 mins max. No hassle everyone is easy going.

I would tell her go to the airport not immigration. She is on overstay, immigration if they wanted to could detain her and hold her until the flight. All depends on the IO she deals with. 

[Tanoshi]

3 hours ago, VinnieK said:

Was on 'feral' visas for a very long time (not anymore)

Were you a wild child?

[ubonjoe]

8 hours ago, lexlam said:

She's planning to go to the immigarion on Monday to pay her overstay with her travel document, along with letter from embassy and air-ticket at hand too, to avoid delaying process in the airport, 

That would be a wasted trip to immigration. The would tell her to pay the fine at the airport. They cannot accept the overstay fine unless a extension of stay can be applied for.

[Sophon]

4 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

That would be a wasted trip to immigration. The would tell her to pay the fine at the airport. They cannot accept the overstay fine unless a extension of stay can be applied for.

 

However, her permission to stay expired on 17th of November meaning:
13 days of overstay in November

31 days of overstay in December

31 days of overstay in January

75 days
======

That means that she will reach 90 days of overstay on Monday the 15th. Since her flight is on Tuesday, that would put her on 91 days of overstay and possibly/probably result in her being black-listed for one year if she doesn't do anything before then.

 

I don't know what the solution is or if there even is one. The only possibility I can think of is going to Immigration and pay the fine while getting 7 days to leave the country, but I have no idea if Immigration would give her that with a 90 day overstay.

 

 

[ubonjoe]

24 minutes ago, Sophon said:

13 days of overstay in November

The overstay did not start until November 18th. Her stay was still valid until midnight on the 17th which is 90 days on Tuesday the 16th.

[Sophon]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The overstay did not start until November 18th. Her stay was still valid until midnight on the 17th which is 90 days on Tuesday the 16th.

November has 30 days, and she was allowed to stay the first 17, that means 13 days of overstay. November 18th (her first day of overstay) to November 30th is 13 days.

[Sophon]

November 18th is the first day of overstay, February 16th will be the last. Both days count as overstay, so the total is 91 days of overstay:

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, Sophon said:

November 18th is the first day of overstay, February 16th will be the last. Both days count as overstay, so the total is 91 days of overstay:

I don't think it matter whether it matters if it is 90 or 91 days. I don't think they give her the one year ban for being over 90 days for few hours.

To early in the day bother with 1 day difference in a calculation.

[ThailandRyan]

As UbonJoe said, and does it really matter at this point.  Looking for the follow-up report to see what actually happens, and if she gets out of the country once at the airport with no issues, and then can she return afterwards with the proper documents.  Covid has created some royal messes, but ultimately at the end of the day are we not all responsible for ensuring our documents are in order to avoid such a situation?

[Sophon]

8 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I don't think it matter whether it matters if it is 90 or 91 days. I don't think they give her the one year ban for being over 90 days for few hours.

To early in the day bother with 1 day difference in a calculation.

 

The rules says no ban for 90 days overstay, one year ban for more than 90 days of overstay. That's a massive difference for this person if she wants to return. You have no way of knowing if they will give her the ban or not, that's just a guess on your part.

 

I find it very cavalier of you to dismiss the issue with "To early in the day bother with 1 day difference in a calculation", when one day can have serious consequences for this person.

Edited February 14, 2021 by Sophon

[ThailandRyan]

3 minutes ago, Sophon said:

 

The rules says no ban for 90 days overstay, one year ban for more than 90 days of overstay. That's a massive difference for this person if she wants to return. You have no way of knowing if they will give her the bank or not, that's just a guess on your part.

 

I find it very cavalier of you to dismiss the issue with "To early in the day bother with 1 day difference in a calculation", when one day can have serious consequences for this person.

The bigger question is why make it an argument, there is an unknown elephant in the room with Immigration and how they handle one persons case differently from another's.  There never has been consistency.

[Sophon]

3 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

The bigger question is why make it an argument, there is an unknown elephant in the room with Immigration and how they handle one persons case differently from another's.  There never has been consistency.

Because, at least for me, it would change my course of action. Knowing that I would be in risk of getting a one year ban if just leaving on Tuesday, I would go to Immigration on Monday and see if I could pay the overstay and get seven days to leave. 

 

If Tuesday was really day 90 of overstay (it's not), then there would not be a need to go to Immigration on Monday, and I would just pay the overstay when I leave on Tuesday.

 

Of course, if the person we are talking about don't want to come back, then getting the ban would not matter. But we don't know that.

[Old Croc]

18 hours ago, Matreusse said:

No country will allow the use of an invalid passport to leave that country, that's the point!

Incorrect.

Most countries will not stop an undocumented foreigner departing unless there is some strong reason for doing so (pending criminal charges?). 

The decision to carry lies with the airline, they are the ones who will be heavily fined or be stuck with the passenger, if entry is refused at the other end. Obviously they will only convey someone without documents to their country of citizenship, and only then, if they first receive official assurances from that country they will allow entry.

It does happen more often than you may think.

[ThailandRyan]

22 minutes ago, Sophon said:

Because, at least for me, it would change my course of action. Knowing that I would be in risk of getting a one year ban if just leaving on Tuesday, I would go to Immigration on Monday and see if I could pay the overstay and get seven days to leave. 

 

If Tuesday was really day 90 of overstay (it's not), then there would not be a need to go to Immigration on Monday, and I would just pay the overstay when I leave on Tuesday.

 

Of course, if the person we are talking about don't want to come back, then getting the ban would not matter. But we don't know that.

You do not ever pay the overstay fee at Immigrations regular offices that would be a major faux paus.  You pay on leaving at the airport, and that is where you will either receive the stamp that bans you in your travel document or passport, as well as the stamp indicating the overstay and amount paid.  Should you go to CW and try to extend the extension your now on overstay for at over 90 days you would be putting yourself possibly into a situation where either they stamp your passport as an overstayer, and escort you to the IDC, or they stamp it with a stamp indicating you have 7 days to leave the country as they have rejected your extension.  It is a no mans land and that's why many on here recommend having a ticket in hand, going to the airport, paying the overstay fine, flying out and then returning if not banned.  I understand with Covid it makes it hard to do right now, but in the past many did just that unless they received the stamp indicating they were banned from returning.

[Sophon]

19 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

You do not ever pay the overstay fee at Immigrations regular offices that would be a major faux paus.  You pay on leaving at the airport, and that is where you will either receive the stamp that bans you in your travel document or passport, as well as the stamp indicating the overstay and amount paid.  Should you go to CW and try to extend the extension your now on overstay for at over 90 days you would be putting yourself possibly into a situation where either they stamp your passport as an overstayer, and escort you to the IDC, or they stamp it with a stamp indicating you have 7 days to leave the country as they have rejected your extension.  It is a no mans land and that's why many on here recommend having a ticket in hand, going to the airport, paying the overstay fine, flying out and then returning if not banned.  I understand with Covid it makes it hard to do right now, but in the past many did just that unless they received the stamp indicating they were banned from returning.

 

That is not true. Plenty of examples right here on ThaiVisa of people paying overstays at Immigration before receiving a new extension. Granted, that is for short overstays and it is quite possible that Immigration would not do it for a 90 day overstay for someone who doesn't qualify for a  normal extension. 

 

The general advice to pay overstay at the airport when leaving is sensible advice, but in this particular situation it will put the person on 91 days of overstay and serious risk of getting a ban. It's up to the OP's friend, but if it were me, I would go to Immigration Monday and see if there was something they could do. It would probably be wise to pay an agent to accompany her.

Edited February 14, 2021 by Sophon

[DrJack54]

4 minutes ago, Sophon said:

, but if it were me, I would go to Immigration Monday and see if there was something they could do. It would probably be wise to pay an agent to accompany her.

That would be the most foolish thing to do.

Poor advice.

[ThailandRyan]

1 minute ago, DrJack54 said:

That would be the most foolish thing to do.

Poor advice.

Exactly the point I was making.  

[Sophon]

1 minute ago, DrJack54 said:

That would be the most foolish thing to do.

Poor advice.

 

Your opinion, I disagree.

 

I believe the chance of getting the seven days to leave outweighs the slight risk of getting detained. There have never been a report here on ThaiVisa of someone going to Immigration while on overstay and being detained, if Immigration cannot help they just tell the person to pay when leaving at the airport. If the OP's friend is worried about being detained, then she can hire an agent to contact Immigration first and ask if they can help, and only go in person if they have received a positive reply.

[Tanoshi]

2 hours ago, Sophon said:

Because, at least for me, it would change my course of action. Knowing that I would be in risk of getting a one year ban if just leaving on Tuesday, I would go to Immigration on Monday and see if I could pay the overstay and get seven days to leave. 

Whilst I understand your sentiments and reasoning, the problem with that is she has an expired Passport and only an emergency travel documents to return home.

Immigration won't grant permission of stay beyond the validity of her Passport, even 7 days to leave and they won't stamp a emergency travel document which is only a means to travel.

 

She would be wasting her time in my opinion and they would advise her to deal with her overstay issue at the airport on departure. They could be lenient under the circumstances and not impose a 1 year ban.

She needs to request to speak to a senior IO and hope his language ability and understanding of her dilemma gets his sympathies. 

Edited February 14, 2021 by Tanoshi

[Caldera]

5 hours ago, Sophon said:

Because, at least for me, it would change my course of action. Knowing that I would be in risk of getting a one year ban if just leaving on Tuesday, I would go to Immigration on Monday and see if I could pay the overstay and get seven days to leave. 

 

That doesn't work. You can only pay your overstay at a local immigration office if you apply for an extension there. If you don't, they simply have no way of knowing when your overstay will end, thus they cannot settle the case.

 

[lexlam]

Alright guys, very good responses, 

I guess the best, and last option just to be heading to the airport on her booked flight and pay there,, and done!

Paying the fines are in front desk ? or after pass the boarding check-in?

Does she needs to carry old passport along with the travel document and embassy letter? 

Or just copy old passport and expired visa will be enough, the embassy mentioned in the letter the information of her old expired passport and the travel document number in the letter,

Maybe Tuestday will be the 91st day, but that's the possible fact to deal with now,

There is idea, if the paying fines office is outside, before check-in, I may suggest to request some sfatt from her embassy to go with her, is this can help?

maybe I won't suggest to her to visit changwattana tomorrow, instead just go to the airport directly and done the process there, 

Thanks alot, 

 

[DrJack54]

17 minutes ago, lexlam said:

maybe I won't suggest to her to visit changwattana tomorrow, instead just go to the airport directly and done the process there, 

Thanks alot, 

Good plan. 

[DrJack54]

20 minutes ago, lexlam said:

may suggest to request some sfatt from her embassy to go with her, is this can help?

Which embassy? Don't think that will happen.

[ubonjoe]

24 minutes ago, lexlam said:

Paying the fines are in front desk ? or after pass the boarding check-in?

 

It is paid at departure immigration after security. They will direct her to a office that handles overstays.

 

25 minutes ago, lexlam said:

Does she needs to carry old passport along with the travel document and embassy letter? 

Yes and anything more that might help.

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, lexlam said:

I may suggest to request some sfatt from her embassy to go with her, is this can help?

You might want to check their Consular fees beforehand.

£150 an hour from the British Embassy.

Thailand: consular fees - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

[DrJack54]

On 2/14/2021 at 5:40 PM, lexlam said:

Alright guys, very good responses, 

I guess the best, and last option just to be heading to the airport on her booked flight and pay there,, and done!

OP, any updates on progress?

[DrJack54]

On 2/14/2021 at 5:40 PM, lexlam said:

Alright guys, very good responses

Very true. So your OP had 6 pages of help and advice.

Your friends gf had a successful escape on Tuesday avoiding ban? 

Brilliant.

[rott]

Strange one, no further response after all that advice and help and not been back on here either. 

Possibly still in IDC, who knows. 

[FritsSikkink]

On ‎2‎/‎13‎/‎2021 at 3:20 PM, ubonjoe said:

I am stating it from what I have read or heard of.

I am aware of Thais that traveled from the US on a expired passport that were on permanent residency there.

With no valid passport at all or an expired Thai passport and a valid US one?