Do you know of anyone on retirement visa "kicked out" of Thailand?

[Daffy D]

As always on this forum people get side tracked go off at tangents and the original question gets lost and not actually answered.

 

So lets say a British pensioner who has been here long time with no family or friends left back in the UK finally runs out of money and can't reach the required financial Immigration requirements gets banged up for overstay.

 

As I understand it he would be held in Immigration jail and deported back to UK at his own expense. But if he does not have the money for a flight is he then kept in jail until he dies?

 

 

 

 

[calbts2]

33 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

What big changes has there been since before 2014 ? Besides insurance for OA.

You always had to account for 800k one way or another, put it aside or top up each year for a retire extension. Marriage extensions I cant recall any changes.

Ever since the coup in 2014 there have been gradual visa changes - all for the negative. Before 2014 - it was quite easy to live in Thailand long term on many types of visas.

 

First in was the crackdown on ED Visas which included limits to how long you could study at a language school and at least in CW - the shifting from 3 month to 2 month extensions. This resulted in many school closings and the ED Visa becoming a non workable option for staying in Thailand longer than 18 months.

 

Then around 2016-17 was the crackdown on tourist visas with the elimination of the double entry tourist visa, consulates in the region limiting and tightening requirements to obtain back to back SETVs, and the unprecedented entry refusals of valid tourist visa entry holders primarily at DM and BKK airports. The situation was extremely bad at DM with extreme scrutiny for any potential long stay tourist. Before this time, it was easy to live in Thailand on tourist visas or visa exempt entries. Also many border run companies went out of business - and this was well before COVID closed borders.

 

Then in 2018 Big joke came in and so did all the negative Retirement visa changes. First with the "pressure" on the US, UK , and Aussie consulates to eliminate in income verification letter.

I did have more than 65 k a month income but this ruling forced me to now keep 800k in a low interest Thai bank account. I will not use the monthly income method now because I do not want to be exposed to changing exchange rates and prefer to invest in my own country.

Then the requirement to keep 800k in the account 5 months a year vs just 3 months before. Ironically this only benefited agents for whom this rule is designed to hinder.

And finally with the ripoff and useless 400/40k insurance requirement that is simply a scam money earner for Thai insurance companies. I fully agree on having a strong in-patient policy but asking for 40k outpatient insurance is ridiculous and can add almost 30% to an existing premium(well over 40k).

 

None of these changes are positive for expats or tourists, especially if you are under 50 as your only methods now to stay long term in Thailand are to either get married to a Thai, get a job or start a business on a B visa, or become a PR / Citizen.

 

 

Edited February 27, 2021 by calbts2
spelling

[Peterw42]

12 minutes ago, Daffy D said:

As always on this forum people get side tracked go off at tangents and the original question gets lost and not actually answered.

 

So lets say a British pensioner who has been here long time with no family or friends left back in the UK finally runs out of money and can't reach the required financial Immigration requirements gets banged up for overstay.

 

As I understand it he would be held in Immigration jail and deported back to UK at his own expense. But if he does not have the money for a flight is he then kept in jail until he dies?

 

 

 

 

If the guy is a pensioner, couldn't he save his pension then buy a ticket ?

Otherwise, I think you would find most embassies will lend emergency funds to their citizens, to be paid back.

 

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

 

Do people here long-term not ultimately aim for permanent residency?

Yes, if they have been working in Thailand for at least 3 years with a work permit and can prove they have paid their Thai personal taxes for the same period.

 

Gaining Thai citizenship, therefor a Thai passport is also possible. 

 

 

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, Tony125 said:

Some do but meeting the requiements are not possible for many. The ability to read and write Thai many farangs cannot do. Also I think working 3 years min and paying taxes are not able to do for those of us who came over on retirement visa.

True, a so called retirement visa cannot be converted to Permanent Residency.

[upu2]

On 2/25/2021 at 5:59 AM, coastguard said:

I know so many guys that worry they will arbitrarily be kicked out of Thailand.

 

I don't like going to Immigration to renew every year, but I don't seriously worry that I won't get my extension. Other than not meeting the financial requirements, for what reasons might we be "kicked out?" An arrest? A DUI? 

 

Do you know anyone that has been kicked out, if so, for what reason. I don't know anyone, nor have I heard any stories of anyone.

If you have been charged for a criminal offence or spent time in jail will probably do it

[Leaver]

7 hours ago, pacovl46 said:

Well, if you’ve lived in Thailand legally for at least 5 years you can apply for permanent residency. A friend of mine did that. 

 

Last I heard, it was extremely difficult to obtain.  Eg. speak, read, and write Thai.  

[Andy from Kent]

On 2/25/2021 at 11:59 AM, coastguard said:

Do you know anyone that has been kicked out, if so, for what reason. I don't know anyone, nor have I heard any stories of anyone.

 

 

i don't personally  know of anyone  actually kicked out but I know one or two I'd like to see get the boot.   ????

 

[Leaver]

6 hours ago, madmen said:

Can could maybe? Don't live your life in fear of the unknown, you could, might get hit by a bus and it all becomes irrelevant! 

 

Thailand's New normal will be be a drastic cut in tourists in  the longterm. No  retirees getting kicked out without a seriouse crime and IMO won't be big changes in visa requirements 

 

 

I don't live here in fear.  I have nothing I can't sell or donate and head to the airport within 36 hours.  Most I could loss is whatever is left on the month's rent.   This is by design.  

[Leaver]

5 hours ago, onekoolguy said:

Good reminder, instead of buying that house I think I'll just keep renting?

 

Works for me, and those buying are only really renting anyway.  ????

[Captain Monday]

12 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

I don't live here in fear.  I have nothing I can't sell or donate and head to the airport within 36 hours.  Most I could loss is whatever is left on the month's rent.   This is by design.  

A++. And have a plan B.

[Leaver]

4 hours ago, giddyup said:

Easy to say, but if you have lived here for many years with a house, wife etc and have reached a ripe old age, it's not going to be easy pulling plant and starting over somewhere else.

 

And what stability has the Thai government given you, for your house purchase, marriage, and 20 years of living here?  Zero. 

 

You have no more "rights" or privileges than someone entering on a 30 day visa exempt stamp, despite financially and emotionally investing in Thailand.  

 

The only thing an expat on a retirement visa can do that a 30 day visa exempt tourist can not do is hold a 5 year driving license instead of  2 year driving license.  ????

 

4 hours ago, giddyup said:

They may introduce compulsory health for new retirement applicants in the future, but what chance has an 80 year old who has lived here 20 years got? I

 

They may introduce health insurance for new retirees and current retirees. 

 

This would ensure zero burden on the Thai medical system in the future, and clear out those here that can't afford it, or are ineligible to receive it, thus ending any current risk to the Thai medical system within the next 12 months, covid aside.  

 

Regardless of one's personal circumstances here, everyone needs a Plan B, because that 1 year retirement visa really just is a 1 year tourist visa.  

 

[Leaver]

4 hours ago, nickmondo said:

my plan B is ready and waiting for me in the Philippines

 

My Plan B is Vietnam.  I have even chosen the condo building.  

[Leaver]

3 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

 

Do people here long-term not ultimately aim for permanent residency?

 

Last I heard, to qualify for permanent residency was extremely difficult.  One of the requirements was to be able to speak, read, and write Thai.   

 

If they made permanent residency easy, everyone would do it, then no more 800k in the bank, no more visa fees, no more 90 day reports etc.  

[Leaver]

2 hours ago, shy coconut said:

I'm not sure you understood the question asked.

 

He didn't want to know of your plans A,B and C or fears of future regulation changes 

by the authorities, he clearly asked if anyone knew of anyone who had been kicked out.

 

The people I know who have left Thailand, left by choice, but pre Covid there were frequent reports of arrests, due to overstay, of people who could no longer meet their obligations to reside here, legally.   

[sanuk711]

2 hours ago, Daffy D said:

So lets say a British pensioner who has been here long time with no family or friends left back in the UK finally runs out of money and can't reach the required financial Immigration requirements gets banged up for overstay.

I would say he would do what a large number of people on here talk about having done---Spend £5---£600  on an agent. If he hasn't had the foresight to put £10--£12 a week away for an agent...well..... "You can take a horse to water"

[Raphael Hythlodaeus]

4 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

 

Do people here long-term not ultimately aim for permanent residency?

Maybe, but too much hassle, too expensive, and you have to get into the income tax system. So exchanging visa extension hassles with tax hassles. I do know someone who has permanent residency but has a long term arrangement with an accountant to declare a minimum income. Another friend had yearly hassles with the tax system. Not for me -- as long as I keep 800k baht in the bank there has never been a problem renewing the retirement extension, and don't know of anyone who had visa problems. Some used an agent to get around the money issue.

[pacovl46]

1 hour ago, Leaver said:

 

Last I heard, it was extremely difficult to obtain.  Eg. speak, read, and write Thai.  

Yeah,  I don’t know about reading and writing, but the6 will have a small talk session with you, like what’s your name, where do you come from etc. really basic stuff that everyone after having lived here for 5 years should be able to say in Thai. It’s essentially you introducing yourself in Thai and tell them about you. Nothing major according to my friend. I don’t know about the rest, it’s been quite a few years since we last talked about it.

[Daffy D]

53 minutes ago, sanuk711 said:

I would say he would do what a large number of people on here talk about having done---Spend £5---£600  on an agent. If he hasn't had the foresight to put £10--£12 a week away for an agent...well..... "You can take a horse to water"

You're doing it again, instead of addressing the question you're bringing up alternatives.

 

A pensioner is in jail for overstay. He cannot afford the fare home, in fact does not want to go home as all his relatives and friends have died and there is no one and nothing to go home to.

 

He only has his meager UK pension so even if the Embassy loaned the money he would never be able to repay it so he is stuck in jail.

 

Would they keep him in jail till he died? You can just see the headline "Lone British Pension Dies in Notorious Bangkok Jail" (A bit of exaggerated sensational tabloid reporting)        

 

Would that happen?  Has it ever happened?  Anyone actually know? 

 

 

 

[EricTh]

I know of one retiree who converted to education visa when his retirement visa was rejected.

 

I think many people have either got an education visa or a Covid visa so it's no big deal if they don't renew your retirement visa.

 

Thailand visa policies is a mockery.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 27, 2021 by EricTh

[sanuk711]

6 minutes ago, Daffy D said:

You're doing it again, instead of addressing the question you're bringing up alternatives.

Daffy--I am just saying , for £10 a week, it should never get to that point.

 

Do I know what would happen -Yes . It happened to my friend who was released from prison when I wasn't in the country---happens to (Most) all prisoners who do not have funds. You are moved to the IDC prison, the Embassy sort your flight out & pays, the Passport (is supposed to be retained ) until paid back. Some Embassy's take a lot longer than others to sort out a return flight.  Conditions in the IDC are usually much worse than normal prison, (depending on how many illegals they dragged in that month).

 

[Daffy D]

8 minutes ago, sanuk711 said:

You are moved to the IDC prison, the Embassy sort your flight out & pays, the Passport (is supposed to be retained ) until paid back

How are you supposed to live and pay back when all you have is a basic state pension?

 

Are you forced onto the plane and the just dumped at Heathrow with no money in your pocket and no where to live.   

 

Think might be better just to go and lie on one of those South Coast beaches and wait to be found by the Border Patrol people, with no passport you could be a refuge from just about anywhere

 

You could probably hitch-hike from Heathrow or better still Gatwick in a few hours  

[Leaver]

1 hour ago, pacovl46 said:

Yeah,  I don’t know about reading and writing, but the6 will have a small talk session with you, like what’s your name, where do you come from etc. really basic stuff that everyone after having lived here for 5 years should be able to say in Thai. It’s essentially you introducing yourself in Thai and tell them about you. Nothing major according to my friend. I don’t know about the rest, it’s been quite a few years since we last talked about it.

 

One from the first page of Google.  

 

https://www.thaiembassy.com/thailand-visa/permanent-residence-thailand

 

 

[EricTh]

7 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

One from the first page of Google.  

 

https://www.thaiembassy.com/thailand-visa/permanent-residence-thailand

 

 

Do you know of any who got PR?

 

The main obstacle is you must earn at least 80,000 baht working in Thailand if you are not married to Thai.

 

Edited February 27, 2021 by EricTh

[Leaver]

13 minutes ago, EricTh said:

Do you know of any who got PR?

 

The main obstacle is you must earn at least 80,000 baht working in Thailand if you are not married to Thai.

 

 

I have met only one person who told me they had PR.  The subject came up because they were working in an occupation reserved for Thai's only, and in open view.  Whether they actually did have PR, or not, I will never really know.

 

As far as earning 80k baht, surely someone can earn 80k through their Thai Company, without actually performing any work.   

[EricTh]

2 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

I have met only one person who told me they had PR.  The subject came up because they were working in an occupation reserved for Thai's only, and in open view.  Whether they actually did have PR, or not, I will never really know.

 

As far as earning 80k baht, surely someone can earn 80k through their Thai Company, without actually performing any work.   

 

He's lying there. Farang can't get jobs reserved for Thai legally.

 

Those low paying jobs reserved for Myanmar workers like construction won't pay 80k per month, not even 10k per month.

 

From my experience, Thai government wants tons of documents as proof.

Edited February 27, 2021 by EricTh

[Leaver]

2 minutes ago, EricTh said:

 

He's lying there. Farang can't get jobs reserved for Thai legally.

 

Those low paying jobs reserved for Myanmar workers like construction won't pay 80k per month, not even 10k per month.

 

From my experience, Thai government wants tons of documents as proof.

 

I am not claiming I know much about PR in Thailand.  I would think anyone with PR would NOT fall under the Thai labour laws, but I do not know this for sure.  Perhaps another member may know.  

 

PR here does not interest me.  I have no intention of applying, now, or in the future.  

[RichardColeman]

5 hours ago, earlinclaifornia said:

This delayed my deposit by issuing the September month until October 1. I was told I needed to leave.

Can't help but think all people staying in Thailand should ensure they always get their money in the middle of the month - purely as Thai seems to throw so many public holidays in there sometimes you need 2 weeks leeway ! 

[ericthai]

19 hours ago, pacovl46 said:

Well, if you’ve lived in Thailand legally for at least 5 years you can apply for permanent residency. A friend of mine did that. 

Not that simple!  you need to be working and paying taxes, plus a bunch of hoops. Not impossible, I have several friends that have PR and a few that now have Thai citizenship. 

[ericthai]

13 hours ago, calbts2 said:

Ever since the coup in 2014 there have been gradual visa changes - all for the negative. Before 2014 - it was quite easy to live in Thailand long term on many types of visas.

 

First in was the crackdown on ED Visas which included limits to how long you could study at a language school and at least in CW - the shifting from 3 month to 2 month extensions. This resulted in many school closings and the ED Visa becoming a non workable option for staying in Thailand longer than 18 months.

 

Then around 2016-17 was the crackdown on tourist visas with the elimination of the double entry tourist visa, consulates in the region limiting and tightening requirements to obtain back to back SETVs, and the unprecedented entry refusals of valid tourist visa entry holders primarily at DM and BKK airports. The situation was extremely bad at DM with extreme scrutiny for any potential long stay tourist. Before this time, it was easy to live in Thailand on tourist visas or visa exempt entries. Also many border run companies went out of business - and this was well before COVID closed borders.

 

Then in 2018 Big joke came in and so did all the negative Retirement visa changes. First with the "pressure" on the US, UK , and Aussie consulates to eliminate in income verification letter.

I did have more than 65 k a month income but this ruling forced me to now keep 800k in a low interest Thai bank account. I will not use the monthly income method now because I do not want to be exposed to changing exchange rates and prefer to invest in my own country.

Then the requirement to keep 800k in the account 5 months a year vs just 3 months before. Ironically this only benefited agents for whom this rule is designed to hinder.

And finally with the ripoff and useless 400/40k insurance requirement that is simply a scam money earner for Thai insurance companies. I fully agree on having a strong in-patient policy but asking for 40k outpatient insurance is ridiculous and can add almost 30% to an existing premium(well over 40k).

 

None of these changes are positive for expats or tourists, especially if you are under 50 as your only methods now to stay long term in Thailand are to either get married to a Thai, get a job or start a business on a B visa, or become a PR / Citizen.

 

 

You're starting this too late.  All the changes started back in the early 2000's first they started with the visa exempt, Then B visas, then Ed visas and it has never stopped a little tweak here and a little (or big ) tweak there.