A patchwork: Europe and COVID-19 vaccination passports

[webfact]

A patchwork: Europe and COVID-19 vaccination passports

By Reuters Staff

 

FILE PHOTO: A woman holds a small bottle labelled with a "Coronavirus COVID-19 Vaccine" sticker and a medical syringe in this illustration taken October 30, 2020. REUTERS/Dado Ruvic

 

European Union leaders moved closer on Thursday to an agreement on certificates showing that citizens have been vaccinated against COVID-19, a move that could revive international travel and save this summer's holiday season.

 

Some countries want an EU-wide approach instead of a patchwork of national schemes that in many cases are not intended to serve as travel documents. Halfway through a summit of leaders on the pandemic, officials said "convergence on a harmonised approach" to certificates was emerging.

 

Here's where several EU member states and other European countries stand on vaccination certificates:

 

BETTER TOGETHER

GREECE has led calls for an EU-wide vaccine certificate to open up summer tourism. It has reached an agreement with Israel, which has launched a digital "Green Pass", to ease travel for those with proof of vaccination. It issues certificates for people who have had twin shots.

 

Athens is in talks with Britain about a similar agreement, but its tourism minister was quoted as saying on Thursday that even unvaccinated Britons could visit the country.

 

SPAIN, AUSTRIA and BULGARIA also support a common EU approach. The government in Vienna says that, if there is no agreement at EU level by the spring, it will implement its own plan.

 

DOING THEIR OWN THING

DENMARK plans to launch a digital passport to document a traveller's vaccination status, designed to be compatible with any future EU-wide scheme. SWEDEN plans a similar digital passport by summer, assuming an international standard is in place by then, as does FINLAND.

 

HUNGARY has announced that from March 1 it will issue a vaccination passport in the form of a card to citizens who have had the vaccine or have immunity after recovering from COVID-19. A decision about possible waivers from coronavirus restrictions will be taken later. People carrying the immunity passport will not have to go into quarantine.

 

RUSSIAN President Vladimir Putin ordered his government in January to consider issuing certificates to those who had been inoculated with domestic vaccines against COVID-19 for overseas travels.

 

THINKING ABOUT IT

BRITAIN is reviewing how COVID-19 status certificates could help reopen the economy. It will consider a system allowing vaccinated individuals to travel abroad more freely once more is known about the efficacy of vaccines against COVID-19 variants. The UK is working with the World Health Organization and other countries on an international framework for travel.

 

PORTUGAL is considering various options to resurrect the travel sector, but has cautioned that an EU-wide passport could lead to "some constraints" given delays in vaccinations.

 

WE HAVE OUR DOUBTS

GERMANY, which has restricted travel from neighbours with high rates of infection, is still in the early stages of debating the idea of vaccination certificates. There are widespread concerns that these could result in discrimination against those who choose not to be vaccinated.

 

ROMANIAN President Klaus Iohannis has said an EU vaccination passport would be divisive, splitting Europe between those who have been vaccinated and those who have not.

 

NO PLANS YET

POLAND has introduced a special QR code via its mObywatel app that can be scanned to confirm a user has been fully vaccinated, meaning they have received two doses. It has not yet said if it will introduce a specific vaccination "passport".

 

FRANCE has not revealed any plans for a vaccination passport of its own, though travel industry lobbies and some opposition politicians have been pressing for such a scheme. ITALY does not have a national vaccination passport scheme.

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2021-02-26

 

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[RichardColeman]

Unless the EU pulls its finger out in its vaccination rollout , the vaccine passport could potentially be irrelevant  

[daveAustin]

Yep, EU has made a right old hash of its vaccination roll-out. Better off letting individual countries sort themselves out than a bunch of un-elected elitists playing chess with peoples' lives. Personally up for a vaccine passport if it means being able to fly.

[Freeduhdum]

34 minutes ago, webfact said:

GREECE has led calls for an EU-wide vaccine certificate to open up summer tourism

It's my understanding that the vaccines do not fully prevent transmission of the disease but rather manage symptoms for a limited time frame. And with the emerging multiple strains/variants, for which vaccines have not been developed for, how are countries going to responsibly return to mass tourism?

https://www.wpri.com/health/coronavirus/study-finds-covid-19-vaccine-may-reduce-virus-transmission/

[ExpatOilWorker]

28 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

Unless the EU pulls its finger out in its vaccination rollout , the vaccine passport could potentially be irrelevant  

The EU is slower than the UK and USA, but they are doing OK. The rest of the world, including us, will be left behind.

 

More Than 218 Million Shots Given: Covid-19 Vaccine Tracker  ["https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/?utm_medium=deeplink"]

 

[sammieuk1]

Elephant tickets will be available here I suppose ????

[lkv]

42 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

Unless the EU pulls its finger out in its vaccination rollout , the vaccine passport could potentially be irrelevant  

The supply will substantially increase in April, as per the delivery agreements.

 

The EU is extremely likely to authorize J&J mid March, with scheduled deliveries in April.

 

Even without J&J, 70% immunisation amongst adult population is expected by September in the EU.

[sezze]

I stated it many times before , there will be a vaccination passport / card / digital thing , whatever . It will grand the people who are vaccinated certain things , which will be much more difficult / impossible without it . It will give people quarantine free travel , and while some might not enter , do expect all tourist countries doing that . Thailand is 1 of them , so expect them to go with this also . It will all work out before summer time , since people will want to travel and countries like Greece and Spain are hurting bad since their economy is largely dependent on tourism . It is already the case for Israeli citizens , and Greece said the persons carrying the green card are accepted as tourists . Airlines want it also , talking about the big companies . It will require a few months more , since all that diplomatic talks do take a while + not so many people do got the vaccine yet + the numbers of the individual countries of hospital admissions due to Covid is still high .

I still expect to go Thailand in October , without quarantine , but with vaccination . Might be with special insurance + maybe a test before flight and after arrival ... but thats about it .

[Freeduhdum]

14 minutes ago, sezze said:

I stated it many times before , there will be a vaccination passport / card / digital thing , whatever . It will grand the people who are vaccinated certain things , which will be much more difficult / impossible without it . It will give people quarantine free travel , and while some might not enter , do expect all tourist countries doing that . Thailand is 1 of them , so expect them to go with this also . It will all work out before summer time , since people will want to travel and countries like Greece and Spain are hurting bad since their economy is largely dependent on tourism . It is already the case for Israeli citizens , and Greece said the persons carrying the green card are accepted as tourists . Airlines want it also , talking about the big companies . It will require a few months more , since all that diplomatic talks do take a while + not so many people do got the vaccine yet + the numbers of the individual countries of hospital admissions due to Covid is still high .

I still expect to go Thailand in October , without quarantine , but with vaccination . Might be with special insurance + maybe a test before flight and after arrival ... but thats about it .

How can this truly be about health if the vaccines do not provide full protection against transmission of the virus? And... the vaccine will not protect against the myriad of emerging strains/variants... The vaccine may reduce but not prevent the spread of this disease... Herd Immunity by vaccination cannot be achieved... doesn't make sense. 

https://www.wpri.com/health/coronavirus/study-finds-covid-19-vaccine-may-reduce-virus-transmission/

Edited February 25, 2021 by Freeduhdum
Required link provided.

[RickBradford]

40 minutes ago, Freeduhdum said:

How can this truly be about health if the vaccines do not provide full protection against transmission of the virus? And... the vaccine will not protect against the myriad of emerging strains/variants... The vaccine may reduce but not prevent the spread of this disease... Herd Immunity by vaccination cannot be achieved... doesn't make sense. 

Exactly.

 

So governments and people will have to decide, quite soon - do they want to live under the shadow of this virus for ever, or not? If so, get ready for continual testing, ongoing random lockdowns of varying severity, social distancing for an indefinite period, holidays requiring an official Travel Permit and all the rest of it.

 

It means creating the sort of society where by comparison, you would be thrilled to be living in East Germany in the 1970s. 

 

The alternative is to show some courage and simply add Covid to the long list of viruses that humanity has to contend with, and get back to living like normal human beings again.

 

However, many news sources indicate that governments are thinking much more along the lines of remaining in mortal dread of this virus for an indefinite period.

[placeholder]

55 minutes ago, Freeduhdum said:

How can this truly be about health if the vaccines do not provide full protection against transmission of the virus? And... the vaccine will not protect against the myriad of emerging strains/variants... The vaccine may reduce but not prevent the spread of this disease... Herd Immunity by vaccination cannot be achieved... doesn't make sense. 

https://www.wpri.com/health/coronavirus/study-finds-covid-19-vaccine-may-reduce-virus-transmission/

On what do you base your assertion that "the vaccine will not protect against the myriad of emerging strains/variants". As virologists and epidemiologists have pointed it, all the vaccines currently in use so far have offered virtually 100% protection against death and hospitalization. It's true that some vaccines offer less protection against infection and develop of non-severe symptoms than do others.

As for your assertion that "herd immunity by vaccination doesn't make sense", that's utter nonsense. Measles is a far more transmissible disease than Covid, yet until recently, when anti-vaxxer numbers started to grow, measles was entirely suppressed in developed nations. 

[placeholder]

18 minutes ago, RickBradford said:

Exactly.

 

So governments and people will have to decide, quite soon - do they want to live under the shadow of this virus for ever, or not? If so, get ready for continual testing, ongoing random lockdowns of varying severity, social distancing for an indefinite period, holidays requiring an official Travel Permit and all the rest of it.

 

It means creating the sort of society where by comparison, you would be thrilled to be living in East Germany in the 1970s. 

 

The alternative is to show some courage and simply add Covid to the long list of viruses that humanity has to contend with, and get back to living like normal human beings again.

 

However, many news sources indicate that governments are thinking much more along the lines of remaining in mortal dread of this virus for an indefinite period.

What it actually means is looking at the results of recent research which shows that these vaccines, especially the mRNA versions, are remarkably effective at suppressing the transmission of the virus. And what's even more important, they provide virtually absolute protection against death and hospitalizations. So what we'd be left with is a disease that can cause mild, flu-like symptoms at worst.

[Freeduhdum]

10 minutes ago, placeholder said:

On what do you base your assertion that "the vaccine will not protect against the myriad of emerging strains/variants"

It's in the article...

"You're going to get some degree of protection against a lot of COVID variants and different strains. So, that's the good news," Dr. David Priest with Novant Health said. "The danger of variants is you could get a variant that has a different structure that you're not going to have protection against."

https://www.wcnc.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/vaccine/does-your-covid-19-immunity-work-against-variants-does-mild-or-asymptomatic-infection-mean-immunity-wanes-quicker/275-7535e443-e956-4380-8557-2f49506180f9

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, Freeduhdum said:

It's in the article...

"You're going to get some degree of protection against a lot of COVID variants and different strains. So, that's the good news," Dr. David Priest with Novant Health said. "The danger of variants is you could get a variant that has a different structure that you're not going to have protection against."

https://www.wcnc.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/vaccine/does-your-covid-19-immunity-work-against-variants-does-mild-or-asymptomatic-infection-mean-immunity-wanes-quicker/275-7535e443-e956-4380-8557-2f49506180f9

Do you understand the difference between "could" and "will"? That so far, all the vaccines provide virtually 100% protection against death and severe symptoms?

[sezze]

1 hour ago, Freeduhdum said:

How can this truly be about health if the vaccines do not provide full protection against transmission of the virus? And... the vaccine will not protect against the myriad of emerging strains/variants... The vaccine may reduce but not prevent the spread of this disease... Herd Immunity by vaccination cannot be achieved... doesn't make sense. 

https://www.wpri.com/health/coronavirus/study-finds-covid-19-vaccine-may-reduce-virus-transmission/

A negative test will say you are negative , and so you will not spread it . While there is a chance you do get infected in the timeframe within the negative test / incubation period , it is proven already that the spread in case of vaccinated persons is much lower then in unvaccinated .

Herd immunity can be done by vaccination , since if enough people get it , the few others remaining will not get in contact with it anymore .

The new virus strains are still a bit of the unknown , but that is the case with each virus . Vaccinations have started , but beside some exceptions , most countries are still in starting grid , meaning to early to see the result from it . Some vaccines might prove very effective from the new strains , others might not do so well . Keeping the world on lockdown is not a nice answer . Remember that airlines are now living on government support everywhere , hotels and all tourist things are burning cash like crazy . And you might think that it won't have anything to do with you but as soon as it falls apart , which it will do if kept on those rules , then it certainly will get to you also . Tourism is a big part of economy , everywhere , through 1 way or another . Vaccination is the answer out of it , and while it is too soon now , it wont be in lets say 6 months .

[Chomper Higgot]

3 hours ago, Freeduhdum said:

How can this truly be about health if the vaccines do not provide full protection against transmission of the virus? And... the vaccine will not protect against the myriad of emerging strains/variants... The vaccine may reduce but not prevent the spread of this disease... Herd Immunity by vaccination cannot be achieved... doesn't make sense. 

https://www.wpri.com/health/coronavirus/study-finds-covid-19-vaccine-may-reduce-virus-transmission/

So you add a link that contradicts your claim.

 

Here’s two ideas for you to mull over:

 

1. Risk reduction.

2. Risk management.

 

Oh and welcome to TVF.

 

I see you’ve eschewed the more general interest sub forums that most new members start with and  jumped straight into the thick of emotive subjects here on the World News sub forum. It’s a little unusual for new members to do this but not in heard of.

 

Again, welcome, and enjoy.

Edited February 26, 2021 by Chomper Higgot

[car720]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

On what do you base your assertion that "the vaccine will not protect against the myriad of emerging strains/variants". As virologists and epidemiologists have pointed it, all the vaccines currently in use so far have offered virtually 100% protection against death and hospitalization. It's true that some vaccines offer less protection against infection and develop of non-severe symptoms than do others.

As for your assertion that "herd immunity by vaccination doesn't make sense", that's utter nonsense. Measles is a far more transmissible disease than Covid, yet until recently, when anti-vaxxer numbers started to grow, measles was entirely suppressed in developed nations. 

and polio.

[Scott]

13 hours ago, Freeduhdum said:

How can this truly be about health if the vaccines do not provide full protection against transmission of the virus? And... the vaccine will not protect against the myriad of emerging strains/variants... The vaccine may reduce but not prevent the spread of this disease... Herd Immunity by vaccination cannot be achieved... doesn't make sense. 

https://www.wpri.com/health/coronavirus/study-finds-covid-19-vaccine-may-reduce-virus-transmission/

There are other threads that are more suited to discussion of how vaccines work.  This one is about Europe's vaccine roll out.  

But just to clarify, no disease has ever reached herd immunity WITHOUT a vaccine.   It just doesn't happen.  Also, no vaccine is 100% effective, not everybody can even take a vaccine.   The goal is to immunize enough people to halt the spread.  

 

Now, back on topic, please.  

 

[unblocktheplanet]

Another poster mentioned East Germany. This is way worse. Every country, including Thailand, will have a surveillance network like China's. This can be expanded to include all kinds of thought-crimes but never abolished or rescinded. My guess is vaccine passports will be a new Constitutional amendment.

[Rinrada]

Both BA and IATA...are on the case...https://www.iata.org/en/programs/passenger/travel-pass/....All British Airways passengers arriving in the UK can use the VeriFLY app from Monday.....https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.daon.glide.person.android&hl=en&gl=US

[from the home of CC]

for an 'universal' passport that every country agrees on we'll be on our eighth vaccination by that time.. 

[placnx]

1 hour ago, from the home of CC said:

for an 'universal' passport that every country agrees on we'll be on our eighth vaccination by that time.. 

It will take time to get a system with a card that works for the whole world and protects public health, not simply an app for getting on planes between certain countries on certain airlines. The hope is that each country is keeping track of vaccinations in the meantime on a proper database.

[from the home of CC]

1 hour ago, placnx said:

It will take time to get a system with a card that works for the whole world and protects public health, not simply an app for getting on planes between certain countries on certain airlines. The hope is that each country is keeping track of vaccinations in the meantime on a proper database.

I don't believe you can get the whole world to agree on anything let alone this..

[RickBradford]

The idea of requiring a vaccination before entering a country is not new - in fact, it used to be much more common than it is now. People used to check that they'd had the required 'shots' before travelling abroad. There are still some countries that require prior vaccination for yellow fever, though none of them are exactly popular tourist destinations. https://www.tripsavvy.com/countries-requiring-yellow-fever-vaccination-2972946. 

 

The key difference is that yellow fever vaccinations are to protect tourists from catching the disease in-country, whereas Covid vaccinations treat every incoming visitor as a potential health hazard required to prove their viral innocence.

 

And it seems that governments will go to insane lengths to try and impose total Covid purity on their countries, which of course includes anyone entering or leaving (see Australia).

 

The only question is how long it takes the penny to drop for these governments, that they are wrecking their economies in pursuit of an unattainable goal.

 

The unpersuadable in pursuit of the unachievable, to paraphrase Oscar Wilde.

[Credo]

1 hour ago, RickBradford said:

The idea of requiring a vaccination before entering a country is not new - in fact, it used to be much more common than it is now. People used to check that they'd had the required 'shots' before travelling abroad. There are still some countries that require prior vaccination for yellow fever, though none of them are exactly popular tourist destinations. https://www.tripsavvy.com/countries-requiring-yellow-fever-vaccination-2972946. 

 

The key difference is that yellow fever vaccinations are to protect tourists from catching the disease in-country, whereas Covid vaccinations treat every incoming visitor as a potential health hazard required to prove their viral innocence.

 

And it seems that governments will go to insane lengths to try and impose total Covid purity on their countries, which of course includes anyone entering or leaving (see Australia).

 

The only question is how long it takes the penny to drop for these governments, that they are wrecking their economies in pursuit of an unattainable goal.

 

The unpersuadable in pursuit of the unachievable, to paraphrase Oscar Wilde.

Governments exist, in theory, for the benefit of their citizens not for the benefit of their economies.  You can't have a well functioning economy without healthy citizens.  

 

[sezze]

8 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

Another poster mentioned East Germany. This is way worse. Every country, including Thailand, will have a surveillance network like China's. This can be expanded to include all kinds of thought-crimes but never abolished or rescinded. My guess is vaccine passports will be a new Constitutional amendment.

You probably forget that some vaccinations are mandatory already . Yellow fever , when going to or from infected areas is mandatory , always have been , it isnt new . In my country ( i can't say for others ) if you want to study clinical laboratory Hep A en B vaccine is mandatory .

So far not a lot of countries made this vaccine mandatory , and it prob won't happen , but if you like to travel , you be prepared to have it or stay at home ( or quarantines and tests for a long time to come ) .