94 Year Old Father Moving to Thailand

[Ebumbu]

So, my father is 94 years old. We've discussed him moving to Thailand where I can look after him and he can live a nice life in the time he has left. He has enough savings to last the rest of his life, and he gets social security -- but his health is declining. He has mild-to-moderate dementia and various other ailments related to old age. My plan is to arrange everything possible from here in Thailand, where I live, then fly to USA for 1-2 months and fly over with him. 

 

My question is whether 94 is too old. Would immigrations object to my plan? He will be vaccinated for Covid before he leaves. Is an OA visa the best bet? He has a money phobia, so an Elite visa would be a very difficult sell, due to cost. It that a superior idea though? Once he's here, then I can arrange for a personal assistant, live in helper, community living, or whatever is needed and he likes. Any thoughts or suggestions are appreciated. I've never attempted anything like this before, and he hasn't travelled much. 

 

Regarding banking, I suppose I'd need to get him a laptop and arrange for online banking. Currently, he literally visits his local banks whenever he needs to do banking. Thanks.

 

 

 

[onebir]

It seems like the health insurance options get very limited over age 75?

[Ebumbu]

3 minutes ago, onebir said:

It seems like the health insurance options get very limited over age 75?

 

He can pay out of pocket as needed. Has savings. 

[mr mr]

bring the old fella over for a holiday of a lifetime. but moving your ailing father over in the condition you mention. a world of hassle awaits. 

 

with a father that age you can't be no spring chicken either. how's your health ? ????

 

 

[GrandPapillon]

20 minutes ago, Ebumbu said:

So, my father is 94 years old. We've discussed him moving to Thailand where I can look after him and he can live a nice life in the time he has left. He has enough savings to last the rest of his life, and he gets social security -- but his health is declining. He has mild-to-moderate dementia and various other ailments related to old age. My plan is to arrange everything possible from here in Thailand, where I live, then fly to USA for 1-2 months and fly over with him. 

 

My question is whether 94 is too old. Would immigrations object to my plan? He will be vaccinated for Covid before he leaves. Is an OA visa the best bet? He has a money phobia, so an Elite visa would be a very difficult sell, due to cost. It that a superior idea though? Once he's here, then I can arrange for a personal assistant, live in helper, community living, or whatever is needed and he likes. Any thoughts or suggestions are appreciated. I've never attempted anything like this before, and he hasn't travelled much. 

 

Regarding banking, I suppose I'd need to get him a laptop and arrange for online banking. Currently, he literally visits his local banks whenever he needs to do banking. Thanks.

 

 

 

have you considered the cultural shock? maybe not a good idea, moving to a completely foreigner country with no prior visit, might become stressful and create a lot of anxiety for an old person. He might not survive the trip after the first 6 months.

 

Old people needs their "anchor" in their daily routine to survive. Thailand is a country with a lot of "floating" anchors if you get my drift, it's going to be hard to survive emotionally in that environment if you are of a certain age.

[Upnotover]

4 minutes ago, Ebumbu said:

 

He can pay out of pocket as needed. Has savings. 

That may well be the case but he would still need health insurance in order to get an OA visa, check the embassy website for the details.

[Ebumbu]

Just now, Upnotover said:

That may well be the case but he would still need health insurance in order to get an OA visa, check the embassy website for the details.

 

He has medicare. Is this enough? I rather doubt private insurance is going to cover Thailand, as a previous poster said. Can try. Maybe travel insurance for starters? I am at the beginning of my journey now, so getting TV experts opinions. 

[Ebumbu]

4 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

have you considered the cultural shock? maybe not a good idea, moving to a completely foreigner country with no prior visit, might become stressful and create a lot of anxiety for an old person. He might not survive the trip after the first 6 months.

 

Old people needs their "anchor" in their daily routine to survive. Thailand is a country with a lot of "floating" anchors if you get my drift, it's going to be hard to survive emotionally in that environment if you are of a certain age.

 

He's got nothing in USA and lives in a <deleted>hole. Since there is bad Covid in his area, he no longer leaves the house unless there is something urgent. It's been like that for a year now. There is no other family but me. For starters, we could rent a beautiful house with two floors. For sure, he'd need a live-in Thai assistant. I'd be on call for the initial period. 

 

I don't see him being killed by shock. He has a sense of humor. He has no routine now but watching TV and feeling depressed. If he doesn't move here, he's going to wind up in a <deleted>hole nursing home that charges an enormous amount for something like prison conditions. I don't see having assistants, chefs, drivers, cleaners, and arranged activities as a downgrade or a shocking experience. 

 

 

[Ebumbu]

10 minutes ago, mr mr said:

bring the old fella over for a holiday of a lifetime. but moving your ailing father over in the condition you mention. a world of hassle awaits. 

 

with a father that age you can't be no spring chicken either. how's your health ? ????

 

 

 

I'm fine. Thank you for asking. Care to share specific issues? The napkin-sketch plan is to rent a big house with two floors for a landing place. Then, hire help (live in assistant) or look for a community that he likes and that has nursing staff, activities, etc. 

 

 

[sirineou]

11 minutes ago, Ebumbu said:

 

He has medicare. Is this enough? I rather doubt private insurance is going to cover Thailand, as a previous poster said. Can try. Maybe travel insurance for starters? I am at the beginning of my journey now, so getting TV experts opinions. 

Medicare does not cover him in Thailand. and is not an alternative acceptable by the Thai government insurance requirements.  

Your biggest hurdle would be getting him insurance in Thailand that would satisfy the government's requirements. 

[Ebumbu]

2 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Medicare does not cover him in Thailand. and is not an alternative acceptable by the Thai government insurance requirements.  

Your biggest hurdle would be getting him insurance in Thailand that would satisfy the government's requirements. 

 

Thanks for this useful info. In that case, maybe we go for O, not OA. Or Elite. Will check all avenues. 

[sirineou]

what you are trying to do is admirable. i wish you and your dad the best of luck????

[onebir]

9 minutes ago, Ebumbu said:

Thanks for this useful info. In that case, maybe we go for O, not OA. Or Elite. Will check all avenues. 

Perhaps worth talking to consulate/embassy staff about it; it seems like the introduction of the insurance requirement has made getting visas quite a bit more difficult for older people, particularly with pre-existing health problems.

 

This group of tourists must, by far, cause the least problems, so it's not clear this was intended/thought through.

 

[Waits for reports of roid-addled nonogenarian farang sexpat scooter rage/bar brawl/yaba dealing incidents to flood the thread.]

Edited March 3, 2021 by onebir

[Ebumbu]

1 minute ago, onebir said:

Perhaps worth talking to consulate/embassy staff about it; it seems like the introduction of the insurance requirement has made getting visas quite a bit more difficult for older people, particularly with pre-existing health problems, and it's not clear this was intended/thought through.

 

Good idea. Based on a previous comment, maybe I bring him over on a tourist visa and then level up to an O using an agent, thus avoiding the insurance issue. O doesn't need insurance proof yet. I know an in-country upgrade is possible, especially in the Jomtien area. Would need careful timing. Visa hop would be less than ideal. 

 

 

[Jingthing]

It seems highly unlikely that he'll be given an O visa in the U.S. based on retirement. That was not happening even for a long time even before the pandemic. 

 

Frankly in this particular situation a 5 year Elite Visa sounds like the best, maybe the only practically realistic possible path for him.

 

Apparently there is at least one decent enough (and cheap enough) care home situation in Chiang Mai that is equipped to deal with his condition. If he doesn't need such care right away, surely it's something to consider later.

Edited March 3, 2021 by Jingthing

[FritsSikkink]

Did you discuss him or did you discuss with him, quite a difference.

[Jingthing]

Most people will tell you not to even try this. I think most people would be right, but I totally understand why you want to.

Again, about the Elite visa, there is no health insurance requirement for annual extensions.

If he was able to get an O-A, meeting the financial requirements would require 800K in a Thai bank or proof of over 65K per month imported. The latter is difficult for much younger people to manage. If you intend to do the bank method that's basically 800K tied up which is more money than the cost of a 5 year Elite Visa.

 

What I don't know is what are the INITIAL insurance requirements are for the first entry on an Elite visa. You should ask about that to people that know and/or the Elite company. That may turn out to be a deal killer but IF you can get past that, I still think the Elite would be your best bet.

Edited March 3, 2021 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Another out of the box alternative when the Philippines opens up their SRRV visa program again is for both of you to move there. They have had a specific option for people with great medical needs that he might financial qualify for depending on his social security/pension size. But of course that's a radical idea because you want to do this in Thailand and nobody knows when the Philippines will open up their SRRV program again. 

Edited March 3, 2021 by Jingthing

[GrandPapillon]

31 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

Did you discuss him or did you discuss with him, quite a difference.

indeed, that's what I was going to ask. Maybe ask him first, the answer might surprise the OP.

[GrandPapillon]

1 hour ago, Ebumbu said:

 

Thanks for this useful info. In that case, maybe we go for O, not OA. Or Elite. Will check all avenues. 

there is no way you could get a O visa

[AlexRich]

I don’t or can’t think of any reason why you would not be able to do this. Indeed, if you are close by and looking after his daily needs it might be a good thing. But I am wondering whether your father could handle the heat and humidity, and would he still be able to do everything he enjoys in the US? And for some that might be as simple as a TV show. Good luck.

[BritTim]

I know most will advise against doing this, but personal observation is that the elderly tend to be better off in Thailand (if they are financially secure) unless they have a good support system back home. Certainly, once they need a nursing home type environment, they are far better off in Thailand. The standard of care beats that available in the West hands down. The simple truth is that most elderly people, unless surrounded by family and friends, are pretty miserable in Western countries.

 

I would suggest bringing him over visa exempt, and arranging Non O visa followed by retirement extension at Immigration when already here. If possible, wait until the quarantine requirement ends or, if that it not possible, look for an AHQ package rather than ASQ. Regular ASQ is not really suitable for someone with dementia.

 

If he will have live in support, there is no reason why he cannot visit a local bank branch rather than trying to learn online banking. He will almost certainly find the staff at the bank very patient and friendly with someone of his age. The attitude of Thais towards the elderly is one of the reasons why I think it is suitable for retirees as they decline physically and mentally.

 

What are his interests? Try to get him involved in a group of like minded individuals as soon as possible. This will slow down the dementia.

[kokesaat]

An American friend of mine (now deceased) brought his 90ish year-old mother over for a short annual vacation in the late 90's.  By the early 2000's, with her health declining and dementia setting in, he brought her over to live full time.  I don't know how he arranged that with immigration.  He and his wife took care of the mother in their home for a year or two, then set her up in a private hospital room with a full time attending ?student? nurse.  My friend told me that the mother's social security check pretty much covered the hospital costs.  

I'd suggest calling the Thai Embassy in DC......ask for Khun Pattanan.  She's up on the rules and has been extremely helpful in our attempting to return (for the fourth time since last year).  

You might consider contacting 

Care Resort Chiang Mai 43/1 Moo 6 Mae Rim-Samoeng Road, Chang Mai, 50180, Thailand Telephone: 66(0) 53044097 Fax: 66(0) 53044096 Email: [email protected]      or:  [email protected] or one of the other care facilities in Chiangmai that cater to elderly expats.   Having lived in Thailand for the past 24 years (minus a covid year) and having seen up close the conditions of elderly care in the US (especially during this covid crisis), there's no doubt in my mind that I'd prefer the care available in Thailand.  You'll pay for it, but then, it's not free in the US. Good luck on your journey

[daveAustin]

Don't think age is the issue with Thai Imm per-se, it's can the foreigner pay if they get sick... 

 

As Jing suggested, and given everything that's going on regards covid and all the extra requirements of entry that go with it, Elite might be the way to go to keep hassle to a minimum. It's a fair wedge, but when you're in your last years, the last thing you want is unnecessary stress.

 

Ubon will be along in a bit to give you some sound advice no doubt.

 

But kudos for wanting to see the ole boy right. Greatest generation era; tough as old boots no doubt. Not like us namby-pambies nowadays. Hope it all works out. 

Edited March 3, 2021 by daveAustin

[ezzra]

Best will be is to do a trail run, bring him over but don't burn any bridges behind and see he he goes for few months, if all well, than you can arrange for his permanent stay...

[scubascuba3]

5 hours ago, Ebumbu said:

 

Thanks for this useful info. In that case, maybe we go for O, not OA. Or Elite. Will check all avenues. 

You could get a tourist visa once available, then in Thailand transfer to non Imm O Retirement. Forget OA as you need proper insurance and no company would insure him. 

 

I thought maybe I'd do the same thing with my father but he's really deteriorated during covid so not possible now. 

 

There is a risk your father will marry the first bar girl he meets and your inheritance is gone. I'm exaggerating slightly but it does happen. 

 

and another thing..... at his age just use an agent to get the non Imm O and subsequent extensions, 21k first 15 months, 12.5k subsequent year. He doesn't need the stress of Immigration 

Edited March 3, 2021 by scubascuba3

[ubonjoe]

6 hours ago, Jingthing said:

It seems highly unlikely that he'll be given an O visa in the U.S. based on retirement. That was not happening even for a long time even before the pandemic. 

The are being issued now due to covid 19.

 

[ubonjoe]

6 hours ago, Ebumbu said:

 

Good idea. Based on a previous comment, maybe I bring him over on a tourist visa and then level up to an O using an agent, thus avoiding the insurance issue. O doesn't need insurance proof yet. I know an in-country upgrade is possible, especially in the Jomtien area. Would need careful timing. Visa hop would be less than ideal. 

What is your status here? If on a extension based upon retirement and some others your father could get an extension for being your father. No need for money in the bank or health insurance to get a single entry non-o visa and apply for the extension.

[Fat is a type of crazy]

A part of dementia and of old age is that habits and routines are important. It gets worse as things get worse. As others have said there are many things that can go wrong - everything from not being able to watch certain TV shows and sports to the overwhelming heat of the tropics or just the overwhelming effect of having too many people around him or just the sound of the foreign accent .  

For that reason if he is showing ambivalence I would not go ahead - only if he is showing a strong keenness would I suggest a short term visa to see how it goes.

Having said that it could really put a smile on his face for his final years of life. I remember the smile on my ex-wife's fathers face when he stayed in a nice hotel and got a massage for the first time.

 

Edited March 4, 2021 by Fat is a type of crazy

[CrunchWrapSupreme]

7 hours ago, Ebumbu said:

I don't see him being killed by shock. He has a sense of humor. He has no routine now but watching TV and feeling depressed. If he doesn't move here, he's going to wind up in a <deleted>hole nursing home

Much kudos to you for wanting to help your dad like this. I was my grandpa’s caregiver in his final years and similarly watched him go. TV all day, back and forth to the kitchen and toilet, often not making it. It really was no way to live. Adapting to life in another country will be difficult, but here in Thailand he’ll have better options.

 

You could get him out for some travel and activities, see what there is to be seen, other than his currently depressing surroundings. I sorely regret not being able to do that for my grandpa. Most importantly, his dollars in savings and social security would go a lot further here than in the US. He could afford travel, hired help, and a nicer place to stay.

 

Many caring, qualified ladies in much need of employment, who’d be satisfied with a modest salary. You could even be a bit generous with them and it’d still be much cheaper than those options in the US. I met several older expats at the lssan watering holes who did just this. Just be sure to get a somewhat older lady with experience, and don’t get taken in by eye candy. Haha. Best of luck to you.