SURVEY: Should Scotland seek independence from the UK?

[Laughing Gravy]

8 hours ago, robblok said:

You only like democracy and voting if you can't lose. Your deadly afraid that your Brexit vote could have been the beginning of the end of the Uk

Where is your evidence for that or are you making it up?

 

8 hours ago, robblok said:

Of course the UK could ignore the result, depends a bit what kind of referendum it is. If its a non binding one like in my country and with a really low vote percentage (32% or so in of the vote you refer to in the Netherlands so only 32% people turned up to vote)

A convenient excuse that only a certain number turned up. That is democracy. people have the choice to vote or not but governments should not have the choice to change the result. That isn't democracy.

The same with Ireland and its referendums.

8 hours ago, robblok said:

Every member can leave if they want, Brexit proved that. Bit strange your remark.

Really, when you have the likes of Junker and other Presidents of the EU (there are so many in the EU you can lose track) actively now wanting referendums. What is strange that you seem to be indicating that the EU is a democracy and has no hold over the countries, in keeping them in the EU. Very strange indeed.

[robblok]

1 hour ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Where is your evidence for that or are you making it up?

 

A convenient excuse that only a certain number turned up. That is democracy. people have the choice to vote or not but governments should not have the choice to change the result. That isn't democracy.

The same with Ireland and its referendums.

Really, when you have the likes of Junker and other Presidents of the EU (there are so many in the EU you can lose track) actively now wanting referendums. What is strange that you seem to be indicating that the EU is a democracy and has no hold over the countries, in keeping them in the EU. Very strange indeed.

It still does not sink.into your head because you just dont want to know. It was a non binding referendum. It was an advising one. Had it been a binding referendum then they had to obey. Now taking into account the low turnout they  knew it was not too important for the people. 

 

Its the governments that keep them.in the EU. The citizen don't mind otherwise they would vote differently. Brexit proves your talking b s. If there are enough people that want to leave it can't be stopped. Every 4 years people can vote. People can also demand a referendum but not though have most countries voters are smarter then the Brexit voters.

Anyone with half a brain sees the economic advantages. 

Anyway study what the difference is between a binding and advising referendum. You might learn something.

Give the scots their chance if you dont worry. Watch te UK being destroyed as a result of Brexit.

 

The reason so many Brexiteers are against it is that they really fear losing Scotland knowing it was Brexit that was the catalyst. 

They worry that their vote leads to an even smaller weaker UK. Knowing how history will record this painting them as fools. Plus if they leave its even harder to see Brexit as a good deal and they will never forget it.

Proof is in this forum with mainly Brexiteers being against this.

 

 

[vogie]

8 minutes ago, robblok said:

It still does not sink.into your head because you just dont want to know. It was a non binding referendum. It was an advising one. Had it been a binding referendum then they had to obey. Now taking into account the low turnout they  knew it was not too important for the people. 

 

Its the governments that keep them.in the EU. The citizen don't mind otherwise they would vote differently. Brexit proves your talking b s. If there are enough people that want to leave it can't be stopped. Every 4 years people can vote. People can also demand a referendum but not though have most countries voters are smarter then the Brexit voters.

Anyone with half a brain sees the economic advantages. 

Anyway study what the difference is between a binding and advising referendum. You might learn something.

Give the scots their chance if you dont worry. Watch te UK being destroyed as a result of Brexit.

 

The reason so many Brexiteers are against it is that they really fear losing Scotland knowing it was Brexit that was the catalyst. 

They worry that their vote leads to an even smaller weaker UK. Knowing how history will record this painting them as fools. Plus if they leave its even harder to see Brexit as a good deal and they will never forget it.

Proof is in this forum with mainly Brexiteers being against this.

 

 

"most countries voters are smarter then the Brexit voters."

"You might learn something."

"Anyone with half a brain sees the economic advantages."

You take patronizing to a higher level Rob.

 

"The reason so many Brexiteers are against it is that they really fear losing Scotland knowing it was Brexit that was the catalyst."

Strangely enough the Scots are againgst it too, it is only the Scottish Nationalists and the Euros, oh and a couple of befuddled anti unionists that want to force a referendum againgst the wishes of the Scots and we all know the reason for that don't we Rob.

 

 

[Sujo]

3 minutes ago, vogie said:

"most countries voters are smarter then the Brexit voters."

"You might learn something."

"Anyone with half a brain sees the economic advantages."

You take patronizing to a higher level Rob.

 

"The reason so many Brexiteers are against it is that they really fear losing Scotland knowing it was Brexit that was the catalyst."

Strangely enough the Scots are againgst it too, it is only the Scottish Nationalists and the Euros, oh and a couple of befuddled anti unionists that want to force a referendum againgst the wishes of the Scots and we all know the reason for that don't we Rob.

 

 

Then let them vote.

[sandyf]

15 hours ago, 7by7 said:

As explained by many, the UK Scotland voted to remain a part of in 2014 no longer exists.

Why is that so hard to understand. 

There is no time limit set in the Belfast agreement between polls.

Why should Scots not have the same right as the Northern Irish?

Agreed, but there is a time limit embedded in the Belfast Agreement. If Scotland had the same rights the time would be up.

"The Secretary of State shall not make an order under paragraph 1
earlier than seven years after the holding of a previous poll under this
Schedule."

[sandyf]

44 minutes ago, vogie said:

"The reason so many Brexiteers are against it is that they really fear losing Scotland knowing it was Brexit that was the catalyst."

Strangely enough the Scots are againgst it too, it is only the Scottish Nationalists and the Euros, oh and a couple of befuddled anti unionists that want to force a referendum againgst the wishes of the Scots and we all know the reason for that don't we Rob.

You really do have your head in the sand. 

Today, the North East has one of the highest concentration of Polish nationals with three per cent of the population of Aberdeen recorded as white Polish, the same proportion of Edinburgh. The figure for Scotland is 1.2 per cent.

https://www.scotsman.com/whats-on/arts-and-entertainment/scotland-and-poland-500-year-relationship-1479958

 

Scotland did not turn on it's own, and headlines like this have fueled the animosity and the desire to get out of the UK

 

Britain's Polish community has been left shocked by incidents of hate crime reported since the British referendum to leave the EU.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36656348

[robblok]

55 minutes ago, vogie said:

"most countries voters are smarter then the Brexit voters."

"You might learn something."

"Anyone with half a brain sees the economic advantages."

You take patronizing to a higher level Rob.

 

"The reason so many Brexiteers are against it is that they really fear losing Scotland knowing it was Brexit that was the catalyst."

Strangely enough the Scots are againgst it too, it is only the Scottish Nationalists and the Euros, oh and a couple of befuddled anti unionists that want to force a referendum againgst the wishes of the Scots and we all know the reason for that don't we Rob.

 

 

You keep saying the Scots are against it but you dont want a vote seems like your lying.

 

I might be patronizing but its the truth. He clearly did not know the Dutch referendum was an advising one that the government was not obliged to follow and given the low nr of people voting they did not. However he keeps bringing it up. So he should study up. Was all democratic.

 

Also anyone with a brain knows leaving a big trade block is bad. Econically we seen the results already so its a fact not a lie. So yes i could post that. Anyone who thinks leaving a block that is your biggest partner is stupid economically. There might be other reasons but economically its stupid. I asked you many times for reports of think tanks or news articles showing it was good. You never showed anything while bad reports are everywhere.

 

The only thing you could debate is the intelligence of the Brexit voters vs rest of EU that is an opinion.

[vogie]

Just now, sandyf said:

You really do have your head in the sand. 

Today, the North East has one of the highest concentration of Polish nationals with three per cent of the population of Aberdeen recorded as white Polish, the same proportion of Edinburgh. The figure for Scotland is 1.2 per cent.

https://www.scotsman.com/whats-on/arts-and-entertainment/scotland-and-poland-500-year-relationship-1479958

 

Scotland did not turn on it's own, and headlines like this have fueled the animosity and the desire to get out of the UK

 

Britain's Polish community has been left shocked by incidents of hate crime reported since the British referendum to leave the EU.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36656348

 

Whataboutery raises its ugly head again, we had it all day yesterday the Scots Nats just cannot and indeed will not accept that the Scots do not, repeat, do not want independence. The Scots Nats on here seem to live their lives by opinion polls but when the polls start to freefall, not a dicky we hear from them.

There has been 5 or 6 polls now showing a decisive no to independence also another poll showing that the SNP will not get a majority in Mays elections, the Scots are beginning to realise what a corrupt "movement" the SNP are, the independence boat has sailed and hopefully the nasty SNP will sink to the bottom of the ocean where it belongs.

 

 

[vogie]

10 minutes ago, robblok said:

You keep saying the Scots are against it but you dont want a vote seems like your lying.

And you are still insulting, I do not lie, where is your evidence that the Scots want another referendum and a answer without insult or patronizing would be much appreciated.

 

[Sujo]

11 minutes ago, vogie said:

 

Whataboutery raises its ugly head again, we had it all day yesterday the Scots Nats just cannot and indeed will not accept that the Scots do not, repeat, do not want independence. The Scots Nats on here seem to live their lives by opinion polls but when the polls start to freefall, not a dicky we hear from them.

There has been 5 or 6 polls now showing a decisive no to independence also another poll showing that the SNP will not get a majority in Mays elections, the Scots are beginning to realise what a corrupt "movement" the SNP are, the independence boat has sailed and hopefully the nasty SNP will sink to the bottom of the ocean where it belongs.

 

 

You dont know they dont want independence.

I dont see posters saying the will leave the uk.

what i do see is posters saying they should be allowed to decide what they want.

Edited March 12, 2021 by Sujo

[robblok]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

And you are still insulting, I do not lie, where is your evidence that the Scots want another referendum and a answer without insult or patronizing would be much appreciated.

 

Lets put both our evidence to the test a vote. But you seem reluctant to agree that the scots have a vote. It might be as you say it might not be. But let them have their chance. 

I don't even know if it makes economic sense to do so. Lots of things to debate but we should not debate on the fact that they should be granted the right to vote.

[Laughing Gravy]

3 hours ago, robblok said:

It still does not sink.into your head because you just dont want to know. It was a non binding referendum. It was an advising one. Had it been a binding referendum then they had to obey. Now taking into account the low turnout they  knew it was not too important for the people. 

 

Its the governments that keep them.in the EU. The citizen don't mind otherwise they would vote differently. Brexit proves your talking b s. If there are enough people that want to leave it can't be stopped. Every 4 years people can vote. People can also demand a referendum but not though have most countries voters are smarter then the Brexit voters.

Anyone with half a brain sees the economic advantages. 

Anyway study what the difference is between a binding and advising referendum. You might learn something.

Give the scots their chance if you dont worry. Watch te UK being destroyed as a result of Brexit.

 

The reason so many Brexiteers are against it is that they really fear losing Scotland knowing it was Brexit that was the catalyst. 

They worry that their vote leads to an even smaller weaker UK. Knowing how history will record this painting them as fools. Plus if they leave its even harder to see Brexit as a good deal and they will never forget it.

Proof is in this forum with mainly Brexiteers being against this.

 

 

As expected and quite typically a quiet rude response.

The quote function is not working so i have to reply this way.

"Anyone with half a brain sees the economic advantages". 

It could also be argued that anyone with half a brain can see the economic advantage being rid from the EU shackles but does require a mind that is one that is not narrow minded and brainwashed.

"Give the scots their chance if you don't worry"

I have mentioned numerous times that I believe the Scots will remain, again. Not ever have I said do not give them a vote even though they voted not so long ago.  Why do you want the a union over 400 years old broken up.  Your constant anti British rhetoric is sickening.

"The reason so many Brexiteers are against it is that they really fear losing Scotland knowing it was Brexit that was the catalyst."

Again your belief with no evidence.

"Proof is in this forum with mainly Brexiteers being against this."

Again baseless and just your belief. Come up with the stats or say its your belief only, as there is no proof at all.

"Anyway study what the difference is between a binding and advising referendum. You might learn something".

Your arrogance knows no bounds does it..

You obsession with the anti British threads is astounding. Did a Brit throw gravy on your chips or something.

[andyg75]

18 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

As expected and quite typically a quiet rude response.

The quote function is not working so i have to reply this way.

"Anyone with half a brain sees the economic advantages". 

It could also be argued that anyone with half a brain can see the economic advantage being rid from the EU shackles but does require a mind that is one that is not narrow minded and brainwashed.

"Give the scots their chance if you don't worry"

I have mentioned numerous times that I believe the Scots will remain, again. Not ever have I said do not give them a vote even though they voted not so long ago.  Why do you want the a union over 400 years old broken up.  Your constant anti British rhetoric is sickening.

"The reason so many Brexiteers are against it is that they really fear losing Scotland knowing it was Brexit that was the catalyst."

Again your belief with no evidence.

"Proof is in this forum with mainly Brexiteers being against this."

Again baseless and just your belief. Come up with the stats or say its your belief only, as there is no proof at all.

"Anyway study what the difference is between a binding and advising referendum. You might learn something".

Your arrogance knows no bounds does it..

You obsession with the anti British threads is astounding. Did a Brit throw gravy on your chips or something.

Your right 100% right some sort of a hang up there.I think it’s jealousy 

[vogie]

56 minutes ago, robblok said:

Lets put both our evidence to the test a vote. But you seem reluctant to agree that the scots have a vote. It might be as you say it might not be. But let them have their chance. 

I don't even know if it makes economic sense to do so. Lots of things to debate but we should not debate on the fact that they should be granted the right to vote.

Pure waffle, there is overwhelming evidence to show that the Scots do not want yet another referendum, the most people that want Scotland to have a referendum are the Euros, now why would that be I wonder and there are no prizes for guessing.

[Laughing Gravy]

24 minutes ago, andyg75 said:

Your right 100% right some sort of a hang up there.I think it’s jealousy 

I thought you might have been the one to throw gravy on his chips, that makes him hate the Brits and especially the English so much.????

[Rookiescot]

4 hours ago, vogie said:

 

Whataboutery raises its ugly head again, we had it all day yesterday the Scots Nats just cannot and indeed will not accept that the Scots do not, repeat, do not want independence. The Scots Nats on here seem to live their lives by opinion polls but when the polls start to freefall, not a dicky we hear from them.

There has been 5 or 6 polls now showing a decisive no to independence also another poll showing that the SNP will not get a majority in Mays elections, the Scots are beginning to realise what a corrupt "movement" the SNP are, the independence boat has sailed and hopefully the nasty SNP will sink to the bottom of the ocean where it belongs.

 

 

Hurrah !!! We believe in the polls again !

 

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Hurrah !!! We believe in the polls again !

 

When you live by the gun, you must understand you may have to die by the gun, you cannot complain just because they are in freefall, you separatists have set this precedence.????

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

When you live by the gun, you must understand you may have to die by the gun, you cannot complain just because they are in freefall, you separatists have set this precedence.????

Then you should have nothing to worry about with a referendum then.

[sandyf]

5 hours ago, vogie said:

the Scots do not, repeat, do not want independence.

I must have missed that post brexit referendum but you obviously have a link.

[vogie]

Just now, Rookiescot said:

Then you should have nothing to worry about with a referendum then.

Doesn't 2014 ring a bell.

It is just like my next door neighbour asking my eldest son Troy if he would go down to 7/11 and get me some Thai fish sauce and Troy would say 'but my dad doesn't like fish sauce' and Tong my next door neighbour saying 'it doesn't matter, get him some anyway'. Can you see the similarities between Tong and yourself, complete waste of time?????????????

[sandyf]

4 minutes ago, vogie said:

Doesn't 2014 ring a bell.

One day you will come to realise that brexit came after 2014, not before.

[vogie]

10 minutes ago, sandyf said:

One day you will come to realise that brexit came after 2014, not before.

And maybe one day you might stop blaming all your trials and tribulations on Brexit, one of your founding members Arthur Donaldson later to become the leader of the SNP was seeking independence in 1939 and the lengths he was prepared to go to get it doesn't even bear thinking about. 

Edited March 12, 2021 by vogie

[Rookiescot]

21 minutes ago, vogie said:

Doesn't 2014 ring a bell.

It is just like my next door neighbour asking my eldest son Troy if he would go down to 7/11 and get me some Thai fish sauce and Troy would say 'but my dad doesn't like fish sauce' and Tong my next door neighbour saying 'it doesn't matter, get him some anyway'. Can you see the similarities between Tong and yourself, complete waste of time?????????????

Vogie that is possibly the worst analogy I have ever seen.

But fish sauce so OK here we go.

Imagine I want to go down to 7/11 and get some fish sauce. My neighbor says "No. You cant have any fish sauce. You had fish sauce in 2014". 

[Rookiescot]

7 minutes ago, vogie said:

And maybe one day you might stop blaming all your trials and tribulations on Brexit, one of your founding members Arthur Donaldson later to become the leader of the SNP was seeking independence in 1939 and the lengths he was prepared to go to get it doesn't even bear thinking about. 

Maybe he was an avid Daily Mail reader.

How Britain's Nazi-loving press baron made the case for Hitler | The Times of Israel

 

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Vogie that is possibly the worst analogy I have ever seen.

But fish sauce so OK here we go.

Imagine I want to go down to 7/11 and get some fish sauce. My neighbor says "No. You cant have any fish sauce. You had fish sauce in 2014". 

If you had fish sauce in 2014 I seriously think you would ever want fish sauce again. But to complete your analogy, if your wife said to you in 2014, you can have fish sauce but remember it is a once in a lifetime fish sauce, that should be the end of the matter.

[Rookiescot]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

If you had fish sauce in 2014 I seriously think you would ever want fish sauce again. But to complete your analogy, if your wife said to you in 2014, you can have fish sauce but remember it is a once in a lifetime fish sauce, that should be the end of the matter.

Is what my wife said legally binding? If its not then its just an opinion or throwaway remark.

Like dead in a ditch or over my dead body.

[pacovl46]

22 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Did he ever have a British passport?

Did he ever say he considered himself Scottish?

 

A. How the hell am I supposed to know that?

B. How the hell am I supposed to know that?

His ancestors were all Scots, he was born in Scotland and he spent the first 8 years of his life in Scotland and that makes him a Scot in my book when it comes to ancestry. 
 

Theres a difference between ancestry and citizenship! 

[vogie]

10 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Is what my wife said legally binding? If its not then its just an opinion or throwaway remark.

Like dead in a ditch or over my dead body.

Helter Skelter.

"When I get to the bottom I go back to the top of the slide
Where I stop and I turn and I go for a ride
Till I get to the bottom and I see you again"

[GrandPapillon]

The United Kingdom will be no more in a few years,

First Scotland, and then Northern Ireland for economic reasons

[Surelynot]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

When you live by the gun, you must understand you may have to die by the gun, you cannot complain just because they are in freefall, you separatists have set this precedence.????

Sword.