SURVEY: Should Scotland seek independence from the UK?

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

Aren't they the same thing?

 

We all know why the prospect of a people's vote on the terms of Brexit terrified you.

 

As you refuse to say why you are opposed to a post Brexit Scottish independence referendum, I can only assume it's for the same reason.

You can assume as much as you like, I don't care! I have explained many times why I don't want to exchange dialogue with you, please respect my choice in doing just that.

[tgw]

18 hours ago, Scott said:

Although it is a complex issue, in your opinion should Scotland seek independence from the UK?

 

Please feel free to leave a comment.

 

it's only a complex issue if the Scottish people are denied the right to decide for themselves.

 

and then there is the question of who exactly is Scottish and should have the right to vote for this.

 

of course deniers of nationality, who prefer the concept of citizenship, can only be unionists. they protect the rights of minorities but deny the existence of nations. a robot as shown in hollywood movies would go into a logical loop error at this point and freeze up.

[7by7]

20 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

39 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

Including AC/DC but us Scots dont mind.

We kinda like you guys anyway.

The singer was Scottish.

 

Nope.

 

Dave Evans, 1973 to1974; Australian.

Bon Scott, 1974 to his death in 1980; Australian.

Brian Johnson, 1980 to 2016 and 2018 to date; English.

Axl Rose, 2016 (stand in for on tour for an ill Johnson); 2016.

[vogie]

1 minute ago, Rookiescot said:

 

Again deflection. Is England a country?

Are you struggling here rookie, we are all one island nation.

[stevenl]

14 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Seeing as you edited your post I will give you another answer.

 

What you fail to understand is my use of the words "whole of the UK" and "Westminster".

 

It is my understanding that Scotland is part of the UK and therefore would be involved in the discussions. It is also my understanding that MSPs are in Westminster and, hence, would be involved in the negotiations regarding independence.

 

Not sure how someone can be accused of being arrogant when they were suggesting all parties should be involved in planning. Arrogance on who's part?

Oh no, I totally understand. Hence my posts to you on this.

[7by7]

12 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

The Scottish seem to believe they will breeze into EU membership, should they ever become independent from UK. Why then, did they not have a "Leave UK and join EU as an independent state" vote in 2014? 

 

 

 

Many, including myself, argued in 2014 that an Independent Scotland would not automatically be granted EU membership.

 

I do not recall anyone from the independence campaign saying that they would be. But if you can find such an argument from the SNP or other independence supporters, please post it here.

 

The same would apply for any future independent Scotland; if they wished to join the EU they would have to apply, just as they would have had to so do had independence won in 2014.

[Rookiescot]

6 minutes ago, vogie said:

Are you struggling here rookie, we are all one island nation.

So England is not a country?

Yes or no.

[youreavinalaff]

2 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

Many, including myself, argued in 2014 that an Independent Scotland would not automatically be granted EU membership.

 

I do not recall anyone from the independence campaign saying that they would be. But if you can find such an argument from the SNP or other independence supporters, please post it here.

 

The same would apply for any future independent Scotland; if they wished to join the EU they would have to apply, just as they would have had to so do had independence won in 2014.

So, why the big hoo haa that Scotland have been hard done by because of Brexit. 

[7by7]

22 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

<snip>

It is also my understanding that MSPs are in Westminster

Your understanding is wrong.

 

MSPs, that is Members of the Scottish Parliament sit in the Scottish Parliament at Holyrood.

 

Scottish MPs do sit in the UK Parliament at Westminster, where, even though English MPs cannot vote on Scottish only matters, they can vote on English only matters. Though the SNP have always refrained from so doing.

 

Obviously, any future Scottish independence referendum would be a UK matter, so, as in 2014, for it to happen the UK government would have to ceded the power to the Scottish Parliament.

[bkkcanuck8]

5 hours ago, vogie said:

Everybody is assuming that Scotland does want independence and this is clearly not the case. The only people that want independence are the SNP, the Scots have clearly stated that they wish to remain within the United Kingdom and their wishes should be respected.

I have never stated Scotland 'wants independence' - that would be dependent on a referendum to put to bed whether things have changed since the last referendum when one of the stated benefits (aka project fear) was that as part of the UK Scotland would remain a part of the EU.   I do think the result will be closer than before because of Brexit, broken promises by the Conservative government (which can be used as a weapon),  etc...   The results would be close but I would not hazard a guess as to whether the referendum would be in favour of staying in the UK or independence -- only that there are valid reasons why the last referendum results should be considered void now that the UK has left the EU.

[7by7]

9 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

So, why the big hoo haa that Scotland have been hard done by because of Brexit. 

 

As explained before, in 2014 Scotland voted to remain part of a UK which was a member of the EU.

 

The UK now is not the same as the UK then because of Brexit.

 

If Scotland does become independent they then have the choice of whether to apply for EU membership or not.

 

As long as Scotland remains part of the UK, they do not have that choice.

 

I don't see how I can put it any simpler than that.

 

[Orton Rd]

5 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

Ah huh...not deflection at all but a response to your words

 

The Scots were in the EU and now against their will no longer are, maybe the majority having seen what being shackled to Westminster now means would prefer to go their own way...let them vote. 

They already had a vote, they voted NO

[Sujo]

25 minutes ago, vogie said:

Are you struggling here rookie, we are all one island nation.

Didnt know NI was part of one island.

[youreavinalaff]

Just now, 7by7 said:

 

As explained before, in 2014 Scotland voted to remain part of a UK which was a member of the EU.

 

The UK now is not the same as the UK then because of Brexit.

 

If Scotland does become independent they then have the choice of whether to apply for EU membership or not.

 

As long as Scotland remains part of the UK, they do not have that choice.

 

I don't see how I can put it any simpler than that.

 

Ok. So if it is so, Scotland don;t want it so. If it isn't so then they want it. They voted remain but want to leave. If they voted leave they would have left but maybe not got into EU. They remain but are not in EU and want to be but can't. However, they might be independent and still can't be in EU. They want the pound but need the Euro. They wnat independence to give it up again soon as. Then they blame this all on others.

 

I'm not sure they are ready for another referendum. Sounds like they all need to get their heads together to find out exactly what it is they do want.

[bkkcanuck8]

5 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

They already had a vote, they voted NO

They already voted, they voted in favour of staying in the EU... let them stay in the Common Market like Northern Ireland...

[Sujo]

4 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

They already had a vote, they voted NO

Whilst part of the eu, explained hundreds of times. 

 

Some brexiteers which dont want scotland to have a decision sure do sound like trump supporters.

 

 

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, youreavinalaff said:

Ok. So if it is so, Scotland don;t want it so. If it isn't so then they want it. They voted remain but want to leave. If they voted leave they would have left but maybe not got into EU. They remain but are not in EU and want to be but can't. However, they might be independent and still can't be in EU. They want the pound but need the Euro. They wnat independence to give it up again soon as. Then they blame this all on others.

 

I'm not sure they are ready for another referendum. Sounds like they all need to get their heads together to find out exactly what it is they do want.

How do you know what Scotland what wants?

[youreavinalaff]

1 minute ago, Rookiescot said:

How do you know what Scotland what wants?

By reading comments from those that broadcast it, such as yourself.

[Sujo]

31 minutes ago, vogie said:

You can assume as much as you like, I don't care! I have explained many times why I don't want to exchange dialogue with you, please respect my choice in doing just that.

What are you afraid of, ignore button works when outgunned.

[youreavinalaff]

2 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

They already voted, they voted in favour of staying in the EU... let them stay in the Common Market like Northern Ireland...

How can Scotland vote to stay in the EU? They weren't in it to start with. Its was UK that was an EU member. I believe the referendum in 2014 was to remain part of or to leave UK.

[Sujo]

53 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

It's arrogance to suggest that the whole of the UK should make some kind of arrangement about independence of one part of the union? Are you sure? 

 

So, Scotland are just going to walk away with nothing? They are not going to ask for anything? They don;t want the oil? The monarchy? The BBC? The £? 

 

Sorry. I thought those things were on the table last time. I must be wrong.

 

OK. No agreement needed. Scotland can just walk away with nothing. Is that arrogance?

Shouldnt that be up to what scotland wants, not what another country says scotland can have?

[stevenl]

5 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Ok. So if it is so, Scotland don;t want it so. If it isn't so then they want it. They voted remain but want to leave. If they voted leave they would have left but maybe not got into EU. They remain but are not in EU and want to be but can't. However, they might be independent and still can't be in EU. They want the pound but need the Euro. They wnat independence to give it up again soon as. Then they blame this all on others.

 

I'm not sure they are ready for another referendum. Sounds like they all need to get their heads together to find out exactly what it is they do want.

Not ready for a referendum, strange comment.

 

It seems only the English on here don't want a scottish referendum on independence.

[stevenl]

1 minute ago, youreavinalaff said:

How can Scotland vote to stay in the EU? They weren't in it to start with. Its was UK that was an EU member. I believe the referendum in 2014 was to remain part of or to leave UK.

The brexit referendum gave a very clear result on the will of the Scots.

[youreavinalaff]

1 minute ago, Sujo said:

Shouldnt that be up to what scotland wants, not what another country says scotland can have?

I think you should move over to compact disks or MP4. Your records appear to be broken.

[youreavinalaff]

2 minutes ago, stevenl said:

It seems only the English on here don't want a scottish referendum on independence.

If you would care to read my comments on TVF, you will see that I have never had any issues with a second referendum. In fact, I have even said they they should have one.

[Rookiescot]

6 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

By reading comments from those that broadcast it, such as yourself.

 

So I want a referendum and independence.

How does that square with your opinions on what Scotland wants?

[youreavinalaff]

1 minute ago, Rookiescot said:

 

So I want a referendum and independence.

How does that square with your opinions on what Scotland wants?

Maybe your use of words such as "Scotland", "Scottish" and "We"????????

[7by7]

15 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Ok. So if it is so, Scotland don;t want it so. If it isn't so then they want it. They voted remain but want to leave. If they voted leave they would have left but maybe not got into EU. They remain but are not in EU and want to be but can't. However, they might be independent and still can't be in EU. They want the pound but need the Euro. They wnat independence to give it up again soon as. Then they blame this all on others.

 

Did you make up that all by yourself or have help?

 

15 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

I'm not sure they are ready for another referendum. Sounds like they all need to get their heads together to find out exactly what it is they do want.

 

Some want to remain part of the UK which is no longer a member of the EU.

 

Some want independence from the UK and then apply for EU membership.

 

Some probably want neither.

 

But the point is that it is for the people of Scotland to decide.

Edited March 7, 2021 by 7by7
typo

[7by7]

17 minutes ago, Sujo said:

Didnt know NI was part of one island.

 

It is, but not the one @vogie meant!

[Sujo]

Would be nice of the op to change the survey.

 

I dont particularly thing scotland should leave but thats my only option.

 

i think they should have a right to decide themselves. Why isnt that an option on this.