Swiss agree to outlaw facial coverings in "burqa ban" vote

[webfact]

Swiss agree to outlaw facial coverings in "burqa ban" vote

By Michael Shields

 

FILE PHOTO: A poster of the initiative committee against wearing the burqa (Verhuellungsverbot) reading "Stop extremism! Veil ban - Yes" is seen in Zurich Switzerland February 15, 2021. On March 7 Switzerland's voters will decide about a nationwide veil ban. REUTERS/Arnd Wiegmann/File Photo

 

ZURICH (Reuters) - A far-right proposal to ban facial coverings in Switzerland won a narrow victory in a binding referendum on Sunday instigated by the same group that organised a 2009 ban on new minarets.

 

The measure to amend the Swiss constitution passed by a 51.2-48.8% margin, provisional official results showed.

 

The proposal under the Swiss system of direct democracy does not mention Islam directly and also aims to stop violent street protesters from wearing masks, yet local politicians, media and campaigners have dubbed it the burqa ban.

 

"In Switzerland, our tradition is that you show your face. That is a sign of our basic freedoms," Walter Wobmann, chairman of the referendum committee and a member of parliament for the Swiss People's Party, had said before the vote.

 

Facial covering is "a symbol for this extreme, political Islam which has become increasingly prominent in Europe and which has no place in Switzerland," he said.

 

Muslim groups condemned the vote and said they would challenge it.

 

"Today's decision opens old wounds, further expands the principle of legal inequality, and sends a clear signal of exclusion to the Muslim minority," the Central Council of Muslims in Switzerland said.

 

It promised legal challenges to laws implementing the ban and a fundraising drive to help women who are fined.

 

"Anchoring dress codes in the constitution is not a liberation struggle for women but a step back into the past," the Federation of Islamic Organisations in Switzerland said, adding Swiss values of neutrality, tolerance and peacemaking had suffered in the debate.

 

France banned wearing a full face veil in public in 2011 and Denmark, Austria, the Netherlands and Bulgaria have full or partial bans on wearing face coverings in public.

 

Two Swiss cantons already have local bans on face coverings, although almost no one in Switzerland wears a burqa and only around 30 women wear the niqab, the University of Lucerne estimates. Muslims make up 5% of the Swiss population of 8.6 million people, most with roots in Turkey, Bosnia and Kosovo.

 

The government had urged people to vote against a ban.

 

(Additional reporting by John Revill, Editing by David Goodman, Elaine Hardcastle and Catherine Evans)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2021-03-08

 

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[canopus1969]

Some sense at last

[thaibeachlovers]

Does that apply to masks for corona as well? One might assume so.

[Berkshire]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Does that apply to masks for corona as well? One might assume so.

Good point.  Strange the article made no mention.  And since there are so few Muslims that actually wear it ("almost no one in Switzerland wears a burqa and only around 30 women wear the niqab"), it seems like they've created a solution searching for a problem. 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, Berkshire said:

Good point.  Strange the article made no mention.  And since there are so few Muslims that actually wear it ("almost no one in Switzerland wears a burqa and only around 30 women wear the niqab"), it seems like they've created a solution searching for a problem. 

Perhaps getting in before it does become a problem. Easier to do it now than after a few thousand have moved to Switzerland. Sending a message to those wanting to to go there.

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, canopus1969 said:

Some sense at last

Some nonsense at last you mean. But that happens when you let referendums decide. 
 

[welovesundaysatspace]

5 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Perhaps getting in before it does become a problem. Easier to do it now than after a few thousand have moved to Switzerland. Sending a message to those wanting to to go there.

What’s the problem? 

[placeholder]

48 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Perhaps getting in before it does become a problem. Easier to do it now than after a few thousand have moved to Switzerland. Sending a message to those wanting to to go there.

It's not like they would conspicuous.

[placeholder]

54 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

Good point.  Strange the article made no mention.  And since there are so few Muslims that actually wear it ("almost no one in Switzerland wears a burqa and only around 30 women wear the niqab"), it seems like they've created a solution searching for a problem. 

Masks are allowed for health- related reasons.

[4MyEgo]

Everyone has gone mad, burkes, hijabs, what is happening here is people's rights are being removed under religious freedoms.

 

I find no issue with a woman wearing full head gear if her religion (law) states that she must wear it in public, and if she is religious, than that is her religious freedom, however if she is entering a place where security needs to see everyone's faces like at an airport or immigration office, license department or stopped by police when driving to identify her, so be it, but if they don't wish to comply with the countries basic (laws), then ship them back to where they came from and they can wear them there day and night, in other words, can't have your cake and eat it too as the country they are in also has the right to provide security to it's citizens under their (laws).

[welovesundaysatspace]

Just now, 4MyEgo said:

Everyone has gone mad, burkes, hijabs, what is happening here is people's rights are being removed under religious freedoms.

 

I find no issue with a woman wearing full head gear if her religion (law) states that she must wear it in public, and if she is religious, than that is her religious freedom, however if she is entering a place where security needs to see everyone's faces like at an airport or immigration office, license department or stopped by police when driving to identify her, so be it, but if they don't wish to comply with the countries basic (laws), then ship them back to where they came from and they can wear them there day and night, in other words, can't have your cake and eat it too as the country they are in also has the right to provide security to it's citizens under their (laws).

Apart from calling people something that can be “shipped back”, I agree to all of the above. 

[4MyEgo]

5 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Apart from calling people something that can be “shipped back”, I agree to all of the above. 

I think all countries taking in immigrants should have a strict policy, abide by our laws and you are welcome, however if you don't, your welcome to go back, in fact we will ship you back !

[Surelynot]

Not stating any particular opinion on this matter....but it will...it seems .....condemn many muslim women to a life sentence to be served inside their own homes.....religion...arrrggghh.

[thaibeachlovers]

15 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

I find no issue with a woman wearing full head gear if her religion (law) states that she must wear it in public,

As I've written several times before, Islam does not demand women wear full head gear or a burqua etc. That is cultural.

I have worked with many Muslim women and most did not cover their hair at all. Even in Saudi, head covering for women was only required outside the hospital, even though we treated Saudis. One religious person did try to demand that the nurses caring for him wore a head scarf, but he was told to back off.

The rule that many seem to mistake for a requirement of a hair covering is that women dress modestly.

[KhunBENQ]

55 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Masks are allowed for health- related reasons.

There is also a questionable exception for "ancient customs" (Brauchtum).

Maybe radical Islam can be redefined as ancient customs?

[KhunBENQ]

1 hour ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Some nonsense at last you mean. But that happens when you let referendums decide. 
 

Are you British?

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

I think all countries taking in immigrants should have a strict policy, abide by our laws and you are welcome, however if you don't, your welcome to go back, in fact we will ship you back !

Normally “shipping back” people doesn’t work when you abide by laws. You would have to break laws to “ship back” someone. 

[Sujo]

Be a lot of cold faces at st moritz in winter.

[Surelynot]

3 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Some nonsense at last you mean. But that happens when you let referendums decide. 
 

I am always put in mind of .....let's have a referendum on...... 

 

hanging for murder

castration for sex crimes

removing tax on cigarettes and alcohol

free petrol

leaving the EU

 

Scary stuff letting the electorate decide anything.

 

 

 

[herfiehandbag]

1 hour ago, Surelynot said:

Not stating any particular opinion on this matter....but it will...it seems .....condemn many muslim women to a life sentence to be served inside their own homes.....religion...arrrggghh.

Well, perhaps those that are required by their families to "veil up" are already serving a life sentence?

[Surelynot]

1 minute ago, herfiehandbag said:

Well, perhaps those that are required by their families to "veil up" are already serving a life sentence?

Absolutely.....they are to blame...no hesitation......

 

Sad.....sat by a pool a couple of years ago in Bangkok......Arab family....young sons running riot (in a good way) having a whale of a time....jumping, diving, swimming, splashing...three young daughters...wrapped head to toe.....sat motionless for an hour on a sun bed......

[Pilotman]

I don't see the point in banning it.  let the woman look stupid, weak and subservient to their men if they wish, its their loss. They are also dim enough to wear black in hot counties while their men folk wear nice cool white.  You've got to laugh, but its a sarcastic laugh. .  

Edited March 8, 2021 by Pilotman

[polpott]

2 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

I find no issue with a woman wearing full head gear if her religion (law) states that she must wear it in public, and if she is religious, than that is her religious freedom,

Its a fashion fad/political statement. They are not required to wear one under Sharia law. In my city in the UK, I grew up near a Pakistani Community, majority 1st generation immigrants in the early 60s. All covered their heads, none covered their faces. Around 10 years ago the burka started to appear, mostly among the younger generation. Now the majority cover their faces due to peer pressure, mainly from the men. Their civil liberties are being denied by being forced to wear them, not from being banned from wearing them.

[Laughing Gravy]

3 hours ago, Surelynot said:

Scary stuff letting the electorate decide anything.

 

That's what the leaders in North Korea, China say and other countries that this forum is based on.  So they either don't have them or cheat. If you support that then that's more scarier for me.

 

What is scarier is that people want democracy but can accept been on the losing side.  Seems to be a new movement over the last few decades....

 

3 hours ago, Surelynot said:

hanging for murder

castration for sex crimes

removing tax on cigarettes and alcohol

free petrol

leaving the EU

 

Edited March 8, 2021 by onthedarkside
trolling comment & quote of hidden post removed

[Surelynot]

Just now, Laughing Gravy said:

Woke, Snowlflakes, Liberals, Lefties, whatever you want to call them.

You forgot rightwing fascists.......just a slip I take it.

[welovesundaysatspace]

2 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I guess you just can't accept the majority.

You’re confusing accepting with agreeing. 

 
 

 

[CharlieH]

Anti-muslim racist rant and responses removed.

 

11) You will not post slurs, degrading or overly negative comments directed towards Thailand, specific locations, Thai institutions such as the judicial or law enforcement system, Thai culture, Thai people or any other group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.
 

[welovesundaysatspace]

54 minutes ago, Pravda said:

In the past few years Swiss have shown the world that they rank pretty low when it comes to intelligence 

 

51 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

In the past few years electorates have shown the world that they rank pretty low when it comes to intelligence 

 

To be fair, it’s common sense that intelligence, same as wealth, cannot be distributed evenly; that there must be smarter and dumber people; and that there are more dumb than smart people. Though thanks to the Dunning–Kruger effect, most people may protest against this thought. Anyway, no surprise that referendums tend to lead to subpar outcome. 
 

 

[Surelynot]

Just now, welovesundaysatspace said:

 

 

To be fair, it’s common sense that intelligence, same as wealth, cannot be distributed evenly; that there must be smarter and dumber people; and that there are more dumb than smart people. Though thanks to the Dunning–Kruger effect, most people may protest against this thought. Anyway, no surprise that referendums tend to lead to subpar outcome. 
 

 

As a politician, during an education debate in the house stated.....he was horrified to find out that half the population was below average intelligence....5555

[SomchaiCNX]

All back doors regarding so called "freedom of religion" should be closed. That freedom is (ab)used for whatever reason. State and religion are supposed to be separated but in Europe you are even allowed political parties to call themselves Christian Democrats or Muslim this or that.  You don't want to know how many money is spent on these people and organisations who believe in fairytales, ridiculous. I have to sponsor my own hobby as well.