Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[THAIJAMES]

2 hours ago, GarryP said:

Could it be possible that despite applying based on marriage to a Thai, the committee in Chiangmai still required that they sing the national and royal anthems and, as such, were not prepared? I agree that it does seem really strange that they would not have prepared to sing the anthems if singing them was required, such as under the PR route.   

I will answer your and qualtrough question at the same time.

 

No they were not married and were applying as single.  These three seemed to be either laotians or Burmese.  Unlike the 60 or so people that came before them they were the first ones required to sing the anthems.

 

The interesting thing is they didn't go through the special Branch police they probably went through dopa directly and dopa didn't do a very good job of informing them the absolute requirement of singing the national and royal anthems.

 

These three persons also seemed like they didn't put much effort in preparing for the citizenship application.  And we're actually scolded by the head of the committee. Ones of the three sang part of the national anthem and then gave up. The second one couldn't sing at all. The third one was singing next to me seem to be singing okay but for some reason she decided not to sing in front of the committee.

 

But here's the important part that may be relevant to westerners. The head of the committee said go and practice and come back next time when you are ready.  Basically left the option for them to keep the application open while they practice the anthems.

Edited February 24, 2022 by THAIJAMES

[Arkady]

12 hours ago, onthemoon said:

With your examples of the UK and other countries, why would anybody apply for a visa for that country if they are also a holder of a passport of the same country?

Well, you can't anyway but, as I mentioned, in the UK it used to be quite convenient, as you could get a stamp in your other passport that was equivalent to PR valid for life and transferable free of charge to new passports. But that is all gone now.  I read a suggestion that there were too many cases of people from countries like Nigeria that sold their passports with the COE stamp in them to illegal immigrants, while they travelled on their Brit passports. But that might have been just a racist comment. 

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, THAIJAMES said:

I will answer your and qualtrough question at the same time.

 

No they were not married and were applying as single.  These three seemed to be either laotians or Burmese.  Unlike the 60 or so people that came before them they were the first ones required to sing the anthems.

 

The interesting thing is they didn't go through the special Branch police they probably went through dopa directly and dopa didn't do a very good job of informing them the absolute requirement of singing the national and royal anthems.

 

These three persons also seemed like they didn't put much effort in preparing for the citizenship application.  And we're actually scolded by the head of the committee. Ones of the three sang part of the national anthem and then gave up. The second one couldn't sing at all. The third one was singing next to me seem to be singing okay but for some reason she decided not to sing in front of the committee.

 

But here's the important part that may be relevant to westerners. The head of the committee said go and practice and come back next time when you are ready.  Basically left the option for them to keep the application open while they practice the anthems.

Very interesting account of the interviews and it is positive that CM is delegated to do the interviews. Interviews in Bkk for those not married to Thais have historically more thorough.  Mine was 15 minutes but your batch was quite large, so they obviously couldn't spend more than a few minutes on each applicant.

 

Whereas Bkk conducts separate interview sessions for those naturalising as Thais, women adopting husband's Thai nationality and minorities who apply through BORA, it sounds as if CM batched them all up together.  I think you are probably right that the candidates who fluffed the singing were minorities born in Thailand who were not properly prepared by BORA, poor guys. When I was waiting for my interview one of the staffers told me that a Chinese couple were having to repeat the songs and might have been rejected. But she made clear that, as you say, they get invited back to try again at a later date.

[onthemoon]

9 hours ago, Arkady said:

Well, you can't anyway but, as I mentioned, in the UK it used to be quite convenient, as you could get a stamp in your other passport that was equivalent to PR valid for life and transferable free of charge to new passports. But that is all gone now.  I read a suggestion that there were too many cases of people from countries like Nigeria that sold their passports with the COE stamp in them to illegal immigrants, while they travelled on their Brit passports. But that might have been just a racist comment. 

Hm, I see.

[sinthavee]

On 2/3/2022 at 10:45 AM, sinthavee said:

I don’t think the the social security number will change or any one will lose the accumulated funds due to change of nationality. As I retired in May 2020 & get monthly payment from SSO on 25th of each month, I need to see if this month I will get the payment or it might take some more time because of my Nationality updation. I will report after 25th Feb.

I am happy to inform that as every month, this month also, I have received the monthly amount from SSO(I had updated my Thai Nationality status with SSO, earlier this month).

[david143]

Its Strange new RG for Nationality Candidates still not Publish.
Last was 24 November 2021

[qualtrough]

On 2/24/2022 at 9:42 PM, THAIJAMES said:

I will answer your and qualtrough question at the same time.

 

No they were not married and were applying as single.  These three seemed to be either laotians or Burmese.  Unlike the 60 or so people that came before them they were the first ones required to sing the anthems.

 

The interesting thing is they didn't go through the special Branch police they probably went through dopa directly and dopa didn't do a very good job of informing them the absolute requirement of singing the national and royal anthems.

 

These three persons also seemed like they didn't put much effort in preparing for the citizenship application.  And we're actually scolded by the head of the committee. Ones of the three sang part of the national anthem and then gave up. The second one couldn't sing at all. The third one was singing next to me seem to be singing okay but for some reason she decided not to sing in front of the committee.

 

But here's the important part that may be relevant to westerners. The head of the committee said go and practice and come back next time when you are ready.  Basically left the option for them to keep the application open while they practice the anthems.

I'm glad that they were given a second chance.

[qualtrough]

My appointment date to change over my personal details on my DL arrived and I went down to a far away location to do that. Turns out it expires in a year and I can renew it up to six months prior to expiration, so I probably could have just waited and done that six months from now. Live and learn!

[Neeranam]

8 hours ago, qualtrough said:

My appointment date to change over my personal details on my DL arrived and I went down to a far away location to do that. Turns out it expires in a year and I can renew it up to six months prior to expiration, so I probably could have just waited and done that six months from now. Live and learn!

Interesting, thanks for sharing. 

 

I haven't bothered to change my details, does it matter?

 

[yankee99]

23 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Interesting, thanks for sharing. 

 

I haven't bothered to change my details, does it matter?

 

It will show that you are thai on your license i think otherwise its the same

[aidenai]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

I haven't bothered to change my details, does it matter?

It states your name in English only and has your foreign passport number on it. 

[Neeranam]

10 minutes ago, aidenai said:

It states your name in English only and has your foreign passport number on it. 

I guess the important thing is that the name on my DL matches my insurance. 

I'll ask them later this week when I renew. 

[DrJoy]

54 minutes ago, aidenai said:

It states your name in English only and has your foreign passport number on it. 

Not for Thais.

 

For Thai citizens it mentions name in English & Thai along with the ID card number .

@Neeranam You have to change in Driver`s Licence as well.

 

 

[DrJoy]

2 hours ago, yankee99 said:

It will show that you are thai on your license i think otherwise its the same

He is a Naturalized citizen, so are you & others.

It is obligatory for naturalized citizens to update Thai ID in all documents.

Use of former nationality is forbidden inside Thailand.

[Arkady]

10 hours ago, DrJoy said:

He is a Naturalized citizen, so are you & others.

It is obligatory for naturalized citizens to update Thai ID in all documents.

Use of former nationality is forbidden inside Thailand.

There is no reference to a requirement to update documents in this way in the Nationality Act which also doesn't specify that use of former nationality is forbidden in Thailand. It says that making use of former nationality is grounds for revocation of nationality without defining "use" or specifying whether it needs to take place within or outside the Kingdom. Having a document that referred to your former nationality passport number could not logically constitute use of former nationality, unless perhaps you applied for the document after naturalisation.  I don't think it would be taken any more seriously that someone who changes their name but fails to change it on their driving license, until they need to get a new one.

 

In my case, I didn't change my driving license and still have the same driving license issued many years before I got Thai citizenship. The license already had the same 13 digit ID number as my ID card and driving licenses don't have your nationality on them.  So I didn't see any point in changing it. 

 

 

[qualtrough]

13 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Interesting, thanks for sharing. 

 

I haven't bothered to change my details, does it matter?

 

I was told that it was required because I originally established my identify for the DL using my US passport. And using my US passport now inside Thailand is a no no. I don't know if a DL is a big deal, but better safe than sorry.

Edited March 1, 2022 by qualtrough

[sinthavee]

In addition to DL, if one has any vehicles in his name, one should update Nationality in the registration book of those vehicles.

[DrJoy]

On 2/24/2022 at 9:42 PM, THAIJAMES said:

I will answer your and qualtrough question at the same time.

 

No they were not married and were applying as single.  These three seemed to be either laotians or Burmese.  Unlike the 60 or so people that came before them they were the first ones required to sing the anthems.

 

The interesting thing is they didn't go through the special Branch police they probably went through dopa directly and dopa didn't do a very good job of informing them the absolute requirement of singing the national and royal anthems.

 

These three persons also seemed like they didn't put much effort in preparing for the citizenship application.  And we're actually scolded by the head of the committee. Ones of the three sang part of the national anthem and then gave up. The second one couldn't sing at all. The third one was singing next to me seem to be singing okay but for some reason she decided not to sing in front of the committee.

 

But here's the important part that may be relevant to westerners. The head of the committee said go and practice and come back next time when you are ready.  Basically left the option for them to keep the application open while they practice the anthems.

Encouraging news indeed.

Are you sure this was the Ministry of Interior (MOI) interview?

Did you get a letter informing of the same?

[THAIJAMES]

10 hours ago, DrJoy said:

Encouraging news indeed.

Are you sure this was the Ministry of Interior (MOI) interview?

Did you get a letter informing of the same?

I'm sorry I can't be absolutely sure of anything.  It was a committee of 35 people run by dopa.  I did get a letter signed by the permanent Secretary of Chiang Mai but it had no letterhead. Supposedly the last interview.

[DrJoy]

@onthemoon Any update on your MOI interview ?

[onthemoon]

8 hours ago, DrJoy said:

@onthemoon Any update on your MOI interview ?

I will call them again next month, for my 2-year waiting anniversary. ????

[THAIJAMES]

On 2/24/2022 at 11:06 PM, Arkady said:

Very interesting account of the interviews and it is positive that CM is delegated to do the interviews. Interviews in Bkk for those not married to Thais have historically more thorough.  Mine was 15 minutes but your batch was quite large, so they obviously couldn't spend more than a few minutes on each applicant.

 

Whereas Bkk conducts separate interview sessions for those naturalising as Thais, women adopting husband's Thai nationality and minorities who apply through BORA, it sounds as if CM batched them all up together.  I think you are probably right that the candidates who fluffed the singing were minorities born in Thailand who were not properly prepared by BORA, poor guys. When I was waiting for my interview one of the staffers told me that a Chinese couple were having to repeat the songs and might have been rejected. But she made clear that, as you say, they get invited back to try again at a later date.

Talking to my SB officer today he informed me that Bangkok delegated the provinces to do the interviews. A representative from Chiang Mai will go to Bangkok and present the successful applicants to the big committee for final approval.  So in other words we no longer have to go there personally.

Edited March 9, 2022 by THAIJAMES

[david143]

5 minutes ago, THAIJAMES said:

Talking to my SB officer today he informed me that Bangkok delegated the provinces to do the interviews. A representative from Chiang Mai will go to Bangkok and present the successful applicants to the big committee for final approval.  So in other words we no longer have to go there personally.

Means if outside Bangkok , they will give permission to DOPA to conduct Interview, that's nice

[THAIJAMES]

11 minutes ago, david143 said:

Means if outside Bangkok , they will give permission to DOPA to conduct Interview, that's nice

Do you know if this means that my application will have to wait for the big moi meeting for Bangkok people and they will consider the successful applicants from the provinces at the same time?

[david143]

6 minutes ago, THAIJAMES said:

Do you know if this means that my application will have to wait for the big moi meeting for Bangkok people and they will consider the successful applicants from the provinces at the same time?

trust me if you are passed from CM , you are really pass from BKK Too.

[yankee99]

26 minutes ago, david143 said:

trust me if you are passed from CM , you are really pass from BKK Too.

true but seems like he's still going to be in the bkk queue? 

[Arkady]

39 minutes ago, THAIJAMES said:

Do you know if this means that my application will have to wait for the big moi meeting for Bangkok people and they will consider the successful applicants from the provinces at the same time?

Sounds like they have upgraded the process for applicants in the provinces but I wonder, if that will apply to all provinces or just provinces like CM, Phuket, Chonburi. Since the CM meeting included stateless persons, it seems possible for them to do it in a number of provinces where they also regularly have stateless applicants, particularly provinces adjoining the Burmese border.  However, not all provinces regularly have stateless applicants and it seems unlikely that they would convene a large meeting like this if they just have one applicant for naturalisation.

 

To answer your question.  Yes, your application will have to wait for the big MOI meeting because it is required in the Nationality Act that they approve it.  However, AFAIK the big meeting takes place 3 or 4 times a year, usually a month or so after the little committee meetings in Bangkok. I was told by a police captain who did 12 years in the SB nationality office that the big committee acts largely as a rubber stamp and he only saw one or two applicants knocked back by the big committee in his time.  The big committee is probably a waste of those senior officials time but the law requires it. 

[david143]

28 Feb 2022 interview Meeting MOI Bangkok
13 Female
55 Male
Mostly on Zoom

[THAIJAMES]

19 hours ago, Arkady said:

Sounds like they have upgraded the process for applicants in the provinces but I wonder, if that will apply to all provinces or just provinces like CM, Phuket, Chonburi. Since the CM meeting included stateless persons, it seems possible for them to do it in a number of provinces where they also regularly have stateless applicants, particularly provinces adjoining the Burmese border.  However, not all provinces regularly have stateless applicants and it seems unlikely that they would convene a large meeting like this if they just have one applicant for naturalisation.

 

To answer your question.  Yes, your application will have to wait for the big MOI meeting because it is required in the Nationality Act that they approve it.  However, AFAIK the big meeting takes place 3 or 4 times a year, usually a month or so after the little committee meetings in Bangkok. I was told by a police captain who did 12 years in the SB nationality office that the big committee acts largely as a rubber stamp and he only saw one or two applicants knocked back by the big committee in his time.  The big committee is probably a waste of those senior officials time but the law requires it. 

Thank you that clarifies many things.

[Arkady]

The CM situation may be a one-off but, as others have mentioned, SB's failure for decades to provide any means for people to apply for naturalisation or to adopt hubby's Thai citizenship, as they are required to do in the Nationality Act, in nearly all provinces may be one of the arguments being used by the MOI to axe SB from the equation. Obviously SB has a national command structure but they have always thought it was good enough to have a good, dedicated office for applicants in Bangkok and nothing for all the other provinces, resulting in people having to change their tabian baan to Bangkok and make many inconvenient trips to Bangkok at short notice.  Probably the original idea behind making applicants apply in their provinces was for national security reasons, as SB in the provinces should be able weed out local criminals and commies in their patch more efficiently.  If they bothered to think about it, it would be pretty easy to set up links between SB provincial offices and SB's Bangkok nationality section to process applications in any province, rather then making the provincial SB officers reinvent the wheel and figure out how to process applications with obviously zero cooperation from a recalcitrant MOI that is trying to squeeze them out of the process.

 

Furthermore, the MOI/BORA is already processing a much larger number of citizenship applications from stateless persons in many provinces which the CM committee seems to have amalgamated in the same interview process.  I also note that the MOI in the old office in Asadang Road, Bangkok used to interview naturalisation applicants separately from wifes adopting hubby's Thai nationality but now seem to consolidate them in the same interviews. The Asadang Road office also used to conduct separate interviews for stateless persons from the provinces, as I was once sitting in a room full of them waiting to be interviewed.  So it is pretty obvious that there is a lot of commonality between all types of citizenship application which are all under the same Nationality Act. So there should be scope to decentralise more to the provinces while consolidating the different types of application.   Staff at Lamlukka, if they no longer have to spent so much time on provincial applicants could be freed up to take over SB's role perhaps for Bangkok and the surrounding provinces, since Lamlukka is not in Bangkok.  Of course, it may well be a case of be careful what you wish for.  The SB nationality office in Bangkok does a great job and it is hard to imagine that the MOI could set up a better system for those able to apply in Bangkok.