THE WEEK THAT WAS The year long Phony War is over - unless you’re a pandemic denier

[Patong2021]

14 minutes ago, Joinaman said:

i also read an article about the long term effects from the flu virus, , struggling for months, even years , that effects people of all ages , just like this covid virus does Oops, i forgot, the flu does not kill or cause damage to people, only covid does this 

 

Ok, what is this article? Please share so we can all learn, yes?

And now once again for the  100th time I think in this forum, the issue with Covid is not the direct deaths, it is the disruption it causes, because;

- ICUs become filled

- basic medical care miust be suspended because it can not be delivered  when there is a deadly infectious respiratory disease epidemic

- the economy is disrupted because so many people would become ill if prevention measures are not taken.

Yes, the flu can and does cause death, but people who are in  good health can recover. Even people in poor health can recover. Unfortunately, with the new variants, Covid is now an equal opportunity killer.

 

22 minutes ago, Joinaman said:

Shocked , Nope

Interested, yes, interested in seeing whether your opinion is correct or not

come back in say 3 weeks, and show us the number of deaths and the ages of these people, including which ones had underlying illnesses

 

Yes the opinion you dismiss was correct. No need to come back in 3 weeks because the  information is available now. All you have to do is look instead of denying reality. For example, this was posted on another thread, but applies here:  Canada is one of the countries that now has all of the variants infecting the population and it is able to provide a good indication of impact of variants that will soon  hit Thailand; 

Ontario is seeing a great number of young Canadians dying at home with COVID-19, with an average of two people a day.  Over the past two weeks there has been 25 deaths of people who have died at home, 16 were under the age of 60   https://nationalpost.com/news/significant-number-of-young-people-are-dying-at-home-with-covid-19-ontario-coroner

This is very different result than the experience with the original wild Wuhan version of  the infection. In early days, young people  were not dying. Now with new variants, young people are being hit. 

 

I also see that there is sad news from Canada and USA about the impact of Covid on children. The new wave is sending more to hospital and they are in worse shape. A search will show you articles that report the facts;

https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/quebec-s-second-wave-sends-more-montreal-children-to-hospitals-with-potentially-deadly-covid-19-related-immune-syndrome-1.5326976

-Multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children (MIS-C) is a delayed immune reaction to COVID that can occur 2-6 weeks after the initial infection.

- It has infected many more children than the first wave did

-  Doctors observe that patients now are in a worse state than children admitted last spring.

“We’re seeing more severe cases than the first wave. The children are sicker. A third of our children have gone into our intensive care unit,” said Dr. Scuccimarri, explaining the illness can cause low blood pressure. Without the medical support they get in an ICU the children could die. To her knowledge, no children in Canada have died from MIS-C, but deaths have been reported in the United States and countries in Europe.

[OZinPattaya]

Perhaps the most curious side effect of the pandemic is the degree to which it has fleshed out the authoritarian impulse in people, which exits to some degree in everyone. For most this impulse sits dormant until an external event provides a sufficient pretext for its public debut. A pandemic is the perfect sort of pretext for those who were always closet authoritarians, like Rooster, in the first place. 

 

Read Camus' The Plague and you'll find a character in that novel who was suicidal before the plague begins, and then absolutely thrives in the midst of the plague. You ever get the feeling that people of a certain political persuasion actually seem to be enjoying the lockdown state? 

 

How so many, with all the benefits of historical hindsight, can still believe that censorship is the answer to "misinformation" or "disinformation"--the two sly <deleted> children of leftwing reactionaries and demagogues, the new Red Scare of the modern West--rather than critical scrutiny and debunking, really makes you question your faith in humanity, if indeed you had any to begin with. The fact that so many of these authoritarians have university degrees speaks volumes about the state of academia. 

 

Noam Chomsky, hardly a right-winger, supported the right to freedom of speech even in the case of Holocaust deniers. I say "supported" because who knows these days how such convictions may change to accommodate the tyranny of cancel culture. 

 

This will be the real and lasting consequence of Covid: It has given the closet authoritarian permission to come out of the closet. Maybe in the end this will be a good thing, to flesh out and expose what lurked insidiously, like some mad-cow disease, in the human herd. 

[Joinaman]

1 hour ago, Patong2021 said:

 

Ok, what is this article? Please share so we can all learn, yes?

And now once again for the  100th time I think in this forum, the issue with Covid is not the direct deaths, it is the disruption it causes, because;

- ICUs become filled

- basic medical care miust be suspended because it can not be delivered  when there is a deadly infectious respiratory disease epidemic

- the economy is disrupted because so many people would become ill if prevention measures are not taken.

Yes, the flu can and does cause death, but people who are in  good health can recover. Even people in poor health can recover. Unfortunately, with the new variants, Covid is now an equal opportunity killer.

 

 

Yes the opinion you dismiss was correct. No need to come back in 3 weeks because the  information is available now. All you have to do is look instead of denying reality. For example, this was posted on another thread, but applies here:  Canada is one of the countries that now has all of the variants infecting the population and it is able to provide a good indication of impact of variants that will soon  hit Thailand; 

Ontario is seeing a great number of young Canadians dying at home with COVID-19, with an average of two people a day.  Over the past two weeks there has been 25 deaths of people who have died at home, 16 were under the age of 60   https://nationalpost.com/news/significant-number-of-young-people-are-dying-at-home-with-covid-19-ontario-coroner

This is very different result than the experience with the original wild Wuhan version of  the infection. In early days, young people  were not dying. Now with new variants, young people are being hit. 

 

I also see that there is sad news from Canada and USA about the impact of Covid on children. The new wave is sending more to hospital and they are in worse shape. A search will show you articles that report the facts;

https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/quebec-s-second-wave-sends-more-montreal-children-to-hospitals-with-potentially-deadly-covid-19-related-immune-syndrome-1.5326976

-Multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children (MIS-C) is a delayed immune reaction to COVID that can occur 2-6 weeks after the initial infection.

- It has infected many more children than the first wave did

-  Doctors observe that patients now are in a worse state than children admitted last spring.

“We’re seeing more severe cases than the first wave. The children are sicker. A third of our children have gone into our intensive care unit,” said Dr. Scuccimarri, explaining the illness can cause low blood pressure. Without the medical support they get in an ICU the children could die. To her knowledge, no children in Canada have died from MIS-C, but deaths have been reported in the United States and countries in Europe.

i thought this original post was about Thailand, where very very few deaths have occurred to date, \Or do we get to pick and choose any country we wish and discuss them, if so, i choose Nauru m or even Tonga 

Yes, the covid can and does kill, yet people in good health can recover, even people in poor health can recover, both the flu and covid viruses are equal opportunity killer's

There, just changed the word flu, to covid for you

 

 

 

 

[chilli42]

22 hours ago, Geoff Mowatt said:

If people are so "up tight" about anti-vaxxers or deniers and want their "freedom of speech" be a crime for telling lies, why do you condone the actions of the military government? Have they NOT told one lie in the last 2 years? 

I fear censorship more than lies (or Covid).  Giving the government the right to control and punish, based on what they determine is the truth, will not lead us to a better place. The stock and trade of any government is lies.  Sure, some of them are “white” lies “for the greater good”.  Many are more dangerous ... “we need to invade Iraq because they have weapons of mass destruction”.  Most lies eventually get exposed in the absence of censorship (well maybe not in the case of the JFK assassination).  Lies just become truth, for some/many/all, in the absence of free speech.  So lies about Covid?  Sure there are lots of misinformation and lies.  I don’t see the need to imply that others don’t have sufficient critical thinking skills to sort through the lies.  If they are incapable of doing so, it’s not your concern/worry it’s just business as usual.

[MyFriend You]

22 hours ago, NancyL said:

Rooster, I applaud you for commenting on the important news about Giant, the pit bull, but you forgot to report on this week's news involving important Thai cats.

 

I've been closely following developments with the six prized pedigreed cats seized in the drug raid https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1214844-pedigree-cats-seized-in-thai-drugs-raid-find-new-home-with-feline-fanatic/   It would be nice if ThaiVisa did some investigative work on just who is the woman who bought all six felines?  What is her "Kingdom of Tigers"?  Will she take care of the cats responsbility or use them for breeding because they have a famous reputation?

 

And speaking of famous feline reputations, what about the poor Thai kitty who met a horrible end in NYC?  https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1214651- justiceforponzu-thai-netizens-support-compatriot-in-us-whose-cat-was-killed-in-park-attack/ 

 

Come on, Rooster.  You can do better.  I read your weekly report for your witty comments about news that matters, not to get caught up in yet another quibbling match from armchair warriors who have nothing better to do with their time.

 

 

The cats are getting their own Facebook pages...........stay tuned.

[AlexRich]

5 hours ago, robblok said:

I told you its futile to try to convince the fruitcakes on this forum. Its overblown according to them. There should be no masks no lockdowns no vaccinations. 

 

Its like talking with people who are religious or in a cult. No matter what you say they will choose to believe their points even if all the evidence is pointing an other way.

I agree with you on those points. Since the rise of social media the human race has funnelled into their own little “truth” silos, where only they and their fellow “truth seekers” understand what’s going on in the world ... and everybody else in enthralled to the deep state, lizard people, paedophile elites, and other such nonsense. Opinion is the new fact. And anyone presenting facts is simply “fake news”. They are slaves to every opportunist, propagandist and snake oil salesman out there. 

[DJBenz]

38 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

Opinion is the new fact. And anyone presenting facts is simply “fake news”. They are slaves to every opportunist, propagandist and snake oil salesman out there. 

And yet they have the temerity to label anyone who follows science or actual facts, "sheep". The irony is palpable.

[AlexRich]

15 minutes ago, Britman Free said:

And both of still you don't know anyone who knows anyone who's died of covid ????

Lucky for you that you have access to the best 'sources' though

I don’t know anyone who has died of Covid? Can you post where I have ever made that statement, or anything that even resembles it? Sadly you’ve just made that up ... which tells people nothing about me, but everything they need to know about you.

[BostonRob2]

6 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

Life is short and recently having found a useful tool for those who want to be keyboard warriors and nit pick, at the press of a button. Add new user to ignore list ????

Nitpick is one word ????

[Britman Free]

11 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

I don’t know anyone who has died of Covid? Can you post where I have ever made that statement, or anything that even resembles it? Sadly you’ve just made that up ... which tells people nothing about me, but everything they need to know about you.

Please can someone advise how I can add a user to the 'ignore list'?

[Rimmer]

A couple of troll posts have been removed

[4MyEgo]

48 minutes ago, BostonRob2 said:

Nitpick is one word ????

 

I'm surprised you didn't also mention that is could be hyphenated ????  

[bobbin]

Ok.. here we go.. I tried to be all calm and logical..

 

It doesn't work with these fruitcakes.. And in this thread and the other regarding K. Prayuth' next move it would appear that there are more and more fruitcakes coming out of the woodwork.. kind of like roa   whoa almost said something that would have my notifications pinging for the next 2 days..

 

So could I respectfully suggest that certain topics be divided into two. If you are a fruitcake , respond to topic 1A, where all the fruitcakes gather and validate each other.. For those that value science, please respond in topic 1B. We can remain separated while both sides prepare for the Big Reset War.. and then it's on..

 

Since the science group will naturally have 99.5 % of the scientists ( there will always be a Nutty Professor or 2) , things will probably not go well for the Fruitcake Brigade..

[Mike k]

27 minutes ago, bobbin said:

Ok.. here we go.. I tried to be all calm and logical..

 

It doesn't work with these fruitcakes.. And in this thread and the other regarding K. Prayuth' next move it would appear that there are more and more fruitcakes coming out of the woodwork.. kind of like roa   whoa almost said something that would have my notifications pinging for the next 2 days..

 

So could I respectfully suggest that certain topics be divided into two. If you are a fruitcake , respond to topic 1A, where all the fruitcakes gather and validate each other.. For those that value science, please respond in topic 1B. We can remain separated while both sides prepare for the Big Reset War.. and then it's on..

 

Since the science group will naturally have 99.5 % of the scientists ( there will always be a Nutty Professor or 2) , things will probably not go well for the Fruitcake Brigade..

The fruitcake brigade will have you banned ????

[rumak]

20 hours ago, robblok said:

I am divided on this.. its not just covid that i worry about lies. But your right about losing freedoms. I think there is no easy solution.

 

ahaaa     so you might say you are  bi-covid

[rumak]

1 hour ago, Britman Free said:

Please can someone advise how I can add a user to the 'ignore list'?

 

the other britman will be here shortly to advise..........

[AlexRich]

2 hours ago, Britman Free said:

Please can someone advise how I can add a user to the 'ignore list'?

Answer the question first. I couldn’t care less about being on your ignore list, as you have nothing of interest to say.

[robblok]

30 minutes ago, rumak said:

 

ahaaa     so you might say you are  bi-covid

Im not thinking just about covid, also the claims of the former US president and all his lies. You see so much misinformation and lies on the internet its scary. Its especially scary when people believe it. We have a guy in the Netherlands who is doing podcasts about a criminal case saying someone else did it while its clear theother person did not do it. The guy who spread those lies was even convicted for defamation. So proven that he lied, but there are still people who believe him (because he is famous). 

 

Its just bad information and lies are not harmless they can do a lot of damage. But on the other hand sometimes main stream is wrong so there should be a channel to air other views. So freedom of expression is good but it gets abused a lot too and the truth is not a defense because too many people will never believe you one way or an other they are trapped int heir little world. 

 

So in that way its a danger anyway i dont pretend i know the anwser. I think nobody does.

[Britman Free]

19 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

Answer the question first. I couldn’t care less about being on your ignore list, as you have nothing of interest to say.

You didn't state that BUT you are in Thailand (which has relatively few deaths *attributed* to covid) so it's unlikely you know anyone who's died *of* covid there.   

You also come across as argumentative (for sport's sake) and obtuse so I doubt anyone in the UK or wherever you're from stays in touch.  

 

I've kept my end of the bargain so please can you or someone else  tell me how to put you on my ignore list?

[Britman Free]

42 minutes ago, Britman Free said:

You didn't state that BUT you are in Thailand (which has relatively few deaths *attributed* to covid) so it's unlikely you know anyone who's died *of* covid there.   

You also come across as argumentative (for sport's sake) and obtuse so I doubt anyone in the UK or wherever you're from stays in touch.  

 

I've kept my end of the bargain so please can you or someone else  tell me how to put you on my ignore list?

Got It ????

[Antonymous]

6 hours ago, OZinPattaya said:

Perhaps the most curious side effect of the pandemic is the degree to which it has fleshed out the authoritarian impulse in people, which exits to some degree in everyone. For most this impulse sits dormant until an external event provides a sufficient pretext for its public debut. A pandemic is the perfect sort of pretext for those who were always closet authoritarians, like Rooster, in the first place. 

 

Read Camus' The Plague and you'll find a character in that novel who was suicidal before the plague begins, and then absolutely thrives in the midst of the plague. You ever get the feeling that people of a certain political persuasion actually seem to be enjoying the lockdown state? 

 

How so many, with all the benefits of historical hindsight, can still believe that censorship is the answer to "misinformation" or "disinformation"--the two sly <deleted> children of leftwing reactionaries and demagogues, the new Red Scare of the modern West--rather than critical scrutiny and debunking, really makes you question your faith in humanity, if indeed you had any to begin with. The fact that so many of these authoritarians have university degrees speaks volumes about the state of academia. 

 

Noam Chomsky, hardly a right-winger, supported the right to freedom of speech even in the case of Holocaust deniers. I say "supported" because who knows these days how such convictions may change to accommodate the tyranny of cancel culture. 

 

This will be the real and lasting consequence of Covid: It has given the closet authoritarian permission to come out of the closet. Maybe in the end this will be a good thing, to flesh out and expose what lurked insidiously, like some mad-cow disease, in the human herd. 

 

Such an excellent post. Food for thought (I hope) for many posters herein. Thank you.

 

I'm a fan of Albert Camus and read The Plague in my late teens. Pretty sure that a copy still sits in my bookshelf! You've prompted me to dust it off and re-read.

[Danderman123]

8 hours ago, Joinaman said:

but in Thailand, which is what this posts are supposed to be about, suicides have increased ?

Probably from so many Farangs jumping off balconies, at least per their Thai girlfriends inside their condos.

 

i am kidding, of course.

Edited April 26, 2021 by Danderman123

[Danderman123]

6 hours ago, Joinaman said:

i thought this original post was about Thailand, where very very few deaths have occurred to date, \Or do we get to pick and choose any country we wish and discuss them, if so, i choose Nauru m or even Tonga 

Yes, the covid can and does kill, yet people in good health can recover, even people in poor health can recover, both the flu and covid viruses are equal opportunity killer's

There, just changed the word flu, to covid for you

 

COVID-19 kills an order of magnitude more people than the flu.

 

 

[Danderman123]

8 hours ago, RAZZELL said:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending26march2021

 

Apart from big spikes in April and November 2020 excess deaths in England and Wales are near enough the 5 year average.

 

At the moment the death rate is actually 5% below the weekly 5 yr average.

 

What the OP means is he wants to ban the "wrong type of opinion" - including a Nobel Prize winner like Prof. Michael Levitt, ex-Supreme Court Judge Lord Sumption etc etc 

 

 

RAZZ

 

Let me translate your post into RealitySpeak:

 

”Apart from huge numbers of excess deaths during the two big spikes in the epidemic, once the last lockdown was imposed, the number of deaths from all causes dropped below the 5 year average. Thank you, Boris Johnson.”

 

it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to understand that less people die from all causes when they stay home, away from other people. Or, if they wear face masks when they go out. Not so many roadway deaths if people aren’t driving. 

Edited April 26, 2021 by Danderman123

[Antonymous]

4 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

COVID-19 kills an order of magnitude more people than the flu.

 

 

 

That is most certainly not the case in Thailand!

 

According to the latest WHO data published in 2018 Influenza and Pneumonia Deaths in Thailand reached 44,549 or 9.11% of total deaths. The age adjusted Death Rate is 47.82 per 100,000 of population ranks Thailand #70 in the world.

 

https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/thailand-influenza-pneumonia

[Danderman123]

8 minutes ago, Antonymous said:

 

That is most certainly not the case in Thailand!

 

According to the latest WHO data published in 2018 Influenza and Pneumonia Deaths in Thailand reached 44,549 or 9.11% of total deaths. The age adjusted Death Rate is 47.82 per 100,000 of population ranks Thailand #70 in the world.

 

https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/thailand-influenza-pneumonia

You are really going to use Thailand as an example during the first stages of its epidemic? Really?

 

2020’S FLU CASES PLUNGE IN COVID-ANXIOUS THAILAND

 

well, you could always use Laos, where nobody ever dies of Covid-19.

 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by Danderman123

[RAZZELL]

1 hour ago, Danderman123 said:

Let me translate your post into RealitySpeak:

 

”Apart from huge numbers of excess deaths during the two big spikes in the epidemic, once the last lockdown was imposed, the number of deaths from all causes dropped below the 5 year average. Thank you, Boris Johnson.”

 

it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to understand that less people die from all causes when they stay home, away from other people. Or, if they wear face masks when they go out. Not so many roadway deaths if people aren’t driving. 

 

Oh, yes, I forgot all the experts are on Thai Visa and not at the Centre for Evidence based medicine at Oxford etc.

 

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/excess-mortality-across-countries-in-2020/

 

So, if people stay home and don't get treatment for other serious illnesses death rates fall? lol

 

25k+ plus more cancer deaths to come due to lack of diagnosis/treatment.

 

 

RAZZ

Edited April 26, 2021 by RAZZELL

[Danderman123]

5 minutes ago, RAZZELL said:

 

Oh, yes, I forgot all the experts are on Thai Visa and not at the Centre for Evidence based medicine at Oxford etc.

 

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/excess-mortality-across-countries-in-2020/

In 2020, the UK had excess mortality of 10% per your linked article, presumably due to Covid-19. There was less excess mortality in the UK in 2021 after the lockdown was imposed. 

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by Danderman123

[RAZZELL]

1 minute ago, Danderman123 said:

The UK had excess mortality of 10% per your linked article, presumably due to Covid-19. 

 

 

What about treatment of other fatal conditions? Heart disease? Cancer? Strokes? etc etc etc They play no part in the numbers???

 

I am totally against these "black/white" lockdown arguments.

 

There are of course shades of grey and room for a much more nuanced approach to C-19 governmental policy.

 

I am still waiting for the cost/benefit analysis of lockdown vs. non-lockdown in the UK - as none has been forthcoming from the Govt (surprise/surprise).

 

RAZZ

 

 

 

 

[Danderman123]

19 minutes ago, RAZZELL said:

 

What about treatment of other fatal conditions? Heart disease? Cancer? Strokes? etc etc etc They play no part in the numbers???

 

I am totally against these "black/white" lockdown arguments.

 

There are of course shades of grey and room for a much more nuanced approach to C-19 governmental policy.

 

I am still waiting for the cost/benefit analysis of lockdown vs. non-lockdown in the UK - as none has been forthcoming from the Govt (surprise/surprise).

 

RAZZ

 

 

The various diseases you mention are incorporated in the standard excess mortality numbers. The 10% bump in mortality happens to coincide with peaks of Covid-19 deaths. In short: 10% “extra” people died, just as hospitals reported a bunch of Covid-19 deaths.

 

The latest lockdown saved tens of thousands of lives. How many pounds is that worth?