26 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

I'm 100% legit, don't have answers for your questions.

The answers to Ubon's questions should be YES.

Unbelievable how many previous threads there's been on this same subject.

28 minutes ago, Brierley said:

Medical visa's have been around for a long time and are not uncommon, typically they are arranged in conjunction with a hospital or health facility.

In this case he is not in any connections with any thai doctor or thai hospital. He is terminal, just wish to stay his last time with his thai dauhgter.

19 minutes ago, anchadian said:

Unbelievable how many previous threads there's been on this same subject.

Visa agents, patts or Isaan for living, cost of living threads are always popular.

51 minutes ago, clivebaxter said:

I would say not if it has only been issued by a bribe. If legal why would you need an agent as middle man? you could just go in the immigration office and say no money in the bank so how much to ignore the fact!

 

The agent has contact with the senior officer which is not easy for you or I to obtain.  It also removes you one step from what might be thought of as bribery.

The camp and opinions on this have and always will be divided.

Personal choice and decision.

1 hour ago, jackdd said:

No, they don't. Whatever an agent might tell you to persuade you, actually the agent fakes the required documents, and for a fee the immigration officer overlooks that these documents are fakes.

If there should ever be a crackdown the IO will say that the foreigner submitted fake documents and that he didn't notice it. The agent will be nowhere to be found.

My bank passbook shows 800,000 baht in/out upon same day. My agent told me fewer banks now remain complicit due to money laundering regulations. I don't know if IO holds photocopies of my bank book or, if they do, whether the copies are genuine or altered.

8 minutes ago, treetops said:

 

The agent has contact with the senior officer which is not easy for you or I to obtain.  It also removes you one step from what might be thought of as bribery.

So not legal then, but people want to persuade themselves otherwise. Payments to get them to do something can only be bribery, no thought about it needed.

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

But would you be able to show a bank book to prove you had the money in the bank when you applied and if for retirement that the 800k baht was in the for 3 months after and then 400k baht after that if asked for it.

From what I have in my possession, no. But Bangkok Bank could.  

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

In the case where an alien applicant does not meet the full qualifications stipulated by the criteria herein or in other cases not specified in this Order but a competent officer equivalent to or higher than inspector is of the opinion that the alien has legitimate reason for staying in the Kingdom of Thailand, the application shall be forwarded to the Commander of the Royal Thai Police or an authorized competent officer for further consideration of the alien's application."

Emboldened text on the original post was done by me.

 

I believe ubonjoe to be the most knowledgeable poster with regards to these matters, however I am sure that I saw a "non-fake" copy of the order allowing the senior officer in the I/O to sign off on an extension at his discretion (with or without the required funds in place).

 

In fact, the emboldened part of the post actually supports that belief, however if somebody could find the original document that was posted maybe two or three years ago, then that might help.

 

I now use the 800 K in the bank method, but have to admit there have been times when going down the agent route with the senior I/O officer sign off has been tempting.

22 minutes ago, xylophone said:

I believe ubonjoe to be the most knowledgeable poster with regards to these matters, however I am sure that I saw a "non-fake" copy of the order allowing the senior officer in the I/O to sign off on an extension at his discretion (with or without the required funds in place).

What I posted is from Immigration order 327/2557 and it it has not been changed since it was issued in 2014.

I suspect what saw was not from a immigration order.

 

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

What I posted is from Immigration order 327/2557 and it it has not been changed since it was issued in 2014.

I suspect what saw was not from a immigration order.

 

I agree, as I was looking I saw a lot of contradicting posts.

7 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

What I posted is from Immigration order 327/2557 and it it has not been changed since it was issued in 2014.

I suspect what saw was not from a immigration order.

 

Thanks uj, however at the time it was shown to be on immigration paper/an immigration order, but then it's always possible that in itself was "produced" by an agent.

 

My main point though was even in your post which comes from immigration, it leaves room for a senior official, in conjunction with another senior official, to grant a retirement extension under any circumstances, and by that I mean without any funds in the bank.

54 minutes ago, clivebaxter said:

So not legal then, but people want to persuade themselves otherwise. Payments to get them to do something can only be bribery, no thought about it needed.

 

You're interpretation (and that of some others too, I give you).  I prefer the more relaxed interpretation where It's called paying a service fee to an agent.

1 hour ago, The Fugitive said:

My bank passbook shows 800,000 baht in/out upon same day. My agent told me fewer banks now remain complicit due to money laundering regulations. I don't know if IO holds photocopies of my bank book or, if they do, whether the copies are genuine or altered.

The law requirment is having the 800 000 bahts in the bank 2 months prior and 3 months after then not less than 400 000 the rest of the time.

 

This fact being verified by the IO when you go for a new extension of stay. That means if your money is in and out upon the same day, it can  not be a legal process and it means the process is done with a bribe, then illegal

 

The only case it could be legal is if for a real reason (Medical or humanitarian) the immigration officer use his discretionary power in place for these specifics exacts cases.

Of course in case of control you should be required to show you are in one of the medical or humanitarian cases covered

 

Are you old, sick and\or in charge of a Thai family and unable to have enough funds?

 

If you can not prove you are in one of these extreme cases you are not legit. As simple as that.

If some "Fly by the seat of your pants Immigration Offices/Officers" choose to deny some individuals the legal combination method or various other self applied rules to deny something then I am OK with them using an agent to obtain their requirements.

16 minutes ago, treetops said:

 

You're interpretation (and that of some others too, I give you).  I prefer the more relaxed interpretation where It's called paying a service fee to an agent.

your feeling more relaxed doesn't make your visa more legit

47 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

What I posted is from Immigration order 327/2557 and it it has not been changed since it was issued in 2014.

I suspect what saw was not from a immigration order.

 

Please see paragraph 5 on page 2 of PO 327/2557.

<Snip>

5. In the case where an alien applicant does not meet the full qualifications stipulated by the criteria herein or in other cases not
specified in this Order but a competent officer equivalent to or higher than inspector is of the opinion that the alien has legitimate
reason for staying in the Kingdom of Thailand, the application shall be forwarded to the Commander of the Royal Thai Police or an
authorized competent officer for further consideration of the alien's application.

</Snip>

 

Full PO is in the sticky at the top of page 1 of this topic.

 

15 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

your feeling more relaxed doesn't make your visa more legit

 

The interpretation is relaxed, not the person.  The visa is debatable as numerous threads show.

Ignore my previous post

36 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

The law requirment is having the 800 000 bahts in the bank 2 months prior and 3 months after then not less than 400 000 the rest of the time.

 

This fact being verified by the IO when you go for a new extension of stay. That means if your money is in and out upon the same day, it can  not be a legal process and it means the process is done with a bribe, then illegal

 

The only case it could be legal is if for a real reason (Medical or humanitarian) the immigration officer use his discretionary power in place for these specifics exacts cases.

Of course in case of control you should be required to show you are in one of the medical or humanitarian cases covered

 

Are you old, sick and\or in charge of a Thai family and unable to have enough funds?

 

If you can not prove you are in one of these extreme cases you are not legit. As simple as that.

I agree absolutely, not legit. No, I have no special reasons (yet) that could merit 'discretion'. More recent retirement extensions have been obtained with the necessary funds in place. My IO was disappointed when I went that route as she had offered to provide same service for less than my agent charged.

2 things :

 

a) use agency; if you dont have enough money or else. OR if you dont want any headache from immigration which you will for sure. OR if you want a comfy visa.

b) do it by yourself if you can. Better but lot of headaches to do

1 hour ago, kingofthemountain said:

The only case it could be legal is if for a real reason (Medical or humanitarian) the immigration officer use his discretionary power in place for these specifics exacts cases.

Of course in case of control you should be required to show you are in one of the medical or humanitarian cases covered

That is supposition on your part, because no "real reasons" have been mentioned in the official I/O document, and it is left up to the discretion of the officer to decide.

 

As I said previously I use the 800 K method, but I believe the I/O ruling is left deliberately ambiguous for reasons that we can only guess!

1 hour ago, treetops said:

 

You're interpretation (and that of some others too, I give you).  I prefer the more relaxed interpretation where It's called paying a service fee to an agent.

It's either legal or not, no interpretation needed

1 hour ago, kingofthemountain said:

your feeling more relaxed doesn't make your visa more legit

The visa is legal, the extension is not, but all involved like to pretend otherwise

6 minutes ago, clivebaxter said:

It's either legal or not, no interpretation needed

 

Courts interpret laws every day of the week.  Why would this one be any different?

I don't think I know anybody that is not using an agent every year. One thing for sure is that Pattaya especially would take an awful hit on expats if they stopped agents.

 

Most I know are married to Thais. bringing up Thai children and supporting the economy. 

 

If Thailand allowed permanent residence (non state benefit claiming) for say marriages over 5 years, the  a lot of these issues would disappear overnight for married people.

Courts rarely condone the payment of bribes to officials, even here

17 minutes ago, clivebaxter said:

Courts rarely condone the payment of bribes to officials, even here

 

While that's true, those cases rarely go to court. It would be too shameful for the officials involved.

3 hours ago, clivebaxter said:

Courts rarely condone the payment of bribes to officials, even here

 

Unless, of course, they are bribed themselves.