To jab or not to jab? Here’s why the answer should always be yes

[Lacessit]

You'd probably think differently if you were one of the people gasping out your life in a hospital, or impaired for months.

I fail to understand why people  attempt to minimise a pandemic which has every health authority in every country tearing their hair out. You think you know more than they do?

Basing an argument on the total world population is spurious, it's the death and impairment levels that are significant.

OK, don't have the vaccine. I've done my own risk assessment.

 

Edited May 16, 2021 by onthedarkside
quote of hidden post removed

[starky]

36 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

You'd probably think differently if you were one of the people gasping out your life in a hospital, or impaired for months.

I fail to understand why people  attempt to minimise a pandemic which has every health authority in every country tearing their hair out. You think you know more than they do?

Basing an argument on the total world population is spurious, it's the death and impairment levels that are significant.

OK, don't have the vaccine. I've done my own risk assessment.

 

Your arguing with a fool it's a waste of time. Anyone with any sense could see there is massive undertesting and under reporting going on huge swathes of Africa and Asia are doing very little reporting at all. It could take decades to know the real death toll from this if the experts can ever work it out at all.

 The death toll is rising faster than ever. While it took eight months for the world to record one million COVID-19 deaths, the second million came in less than four months.

[Rimmer]

A post with links to a conspiracy troll website giving misleading information has been removed

[tomazbodner]

And if you're in Buriram it's Jab or Jail.

 

[Lacessit]

34 minutes ago, starky said:

Your arguing with a fool it's a waste of time. Anyone with any sense could see there is massive undertesting and under reporting going on huge swathes of Africa and Asia are doing very little reporting at all. It could take decades to know the real death toll from this if the experts can ever work it out at all.

 The death toll is rising faster than ever. While it took eight months for the world to record one million COVID-19 deaths, the second million came in less than four months.

I am curious about virginal anti-vaxxers, who have never had polio, tetanus, tuberculosis vaccinations etc. etc.

Perhaps they don't realise if they visited places such as Afghanistan, Cambodia, Pakistan or Ethiopia, they'd be dead in a week, and the best immune system in the world would not save them. Multiple assaults.

You're right, I am wasting my time.

[placeholder]

 excess mortality figures in the us shows that covid fatalities are being seriously undercounted. The same applies to the rest of the world. India particularly where it's estimated that the genuine mortality figure is 5 times the official one. Also economically underdeveloped nations where the health systems are rudimentary and reporting is skimpy.

Edited May 16, 2021 by onthedarkside
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[DavisH]

Yes Influenza is low in most parts of the world. That has been attributed to preventive measures, social distancing, etc. This shows that covid is much more infectious than any regular flu. this has been stated many times. I also noticed it last year among my classes. We had almost 100% attendance every day we were at school. Very few kids were off sick. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by onthedarkside
quote of hidden post removed

[sawadee1947]

9 hours ago, 2 is 1 said:

How much sore your muscle get is also up to nurse who shoot that one! How deep in muscle put vaccine, how fast press piston et cetera. Not all come from what "liquid" they put there!

Sounds very familiar to other parts ???????????? of my body 

[sawadee1947]

9 hours ago, BestB said:

To me it is not about get or not get but what would happen if I do not .

 

will I be allowed to fly ? Travel by public transport ? And so on or will I be singled out for not getting it .

 

it’s all nice to talk about choices but I am afraid it may not be a matter of choice when you have many restrictions should you chose not to get it

What real choice is it. : to die without vaccine or have a longer life. But at the end it's all the same ????

[VBF]

11 hours ago, starky said:

Where did I claim that? Asymptomatic as in those that have been vaccinated and potentially get reinfected the worst thing that will probably happen is you will be Asymptomatic.

More importantly as long as the tin foil hat brigade makes up less than 25% of the world's population we should all be sweet. My life family and career revolves around travel I have had injections for yellow fever, typhoid, all the hepatitis, tetanus the list goes on and on and if a covid vaccine getz me back to some sort of normality quicker I'm all for it. I certainly don't believe every epidemiologist in the world all sat in some room and floated some theory to poison the whole planet.

  I do believe that not taking the vaccine will severely limit your mobility and ability to travel and those that choose not to be vaccinated will have to deal with those consequences.

Same, same and same!!!!  Great and sensible post - thank you! ????

[VBF]

Look at the UK figures (available online in various places) and you will see that infections, hospital admissions and deaths were increasing up and until vaccination took off. Therefore it is impossible to say that they had peaked. 

 

Since the vaccinations got under way, they have fallen dramatically demonstrating the effectiveness of vaccination.

Edited May 16, 2021 by onthedarkside
quote of hidden post removed

[Susco]

24 minutes ago, VBF said:

Look at the UK figures (available online in various places) and you will see that infections, hospital admissions and deaths were increasing up and until vaccination took off. Therefore it is impossible to say that they had peaked. 

 

Since the vaccinations got under way, they have fallen dramatically demonstrating the effectiveness of vaccination.

 

Complete lock downs were also in place in the UK when the vaccinations took off.

 

Did you see this post?

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1217027-thailand grants-emergency-use-approval-for-moderna-covid-19-vaccine-official/?do=findComment&comment=16475413

 

Edited May 14, 2021 by Susco

[lks7689]

16 hours ago, AgentSmith said:

If these breakthrough cases are a fact then then it's only logical to see an increase as more people are getting vaccinated. That doesn't have anything to do with booster shots though. Breakthrough cases are people that show a high antibody count and still get sick, or perhaps their immune system doesn't respond to the vaccine at all but that's just a guess. Booster shots are for people who respond well to vaccination and don't get sick but show a lower antibody count in their blood after a certain period. I expect everyone needs a booster shot every 6 months to maintain a sufficient level of protection.

It is a fact there are several breakthrough cases in Singapore among the recent spike in community cases and authorities have zoomed down to an area at the airport serving arrivals from South Asia (India). Cleaners, security officers, immigration officers already vaccinated in Feb or March with Pfizer vaccines are confirmed covid positive and quite a number of them by the Indian variant. 

[Rimmer]

An inflammatory post has been removed

[placeholder]

10 hours ago, Susco said:

 

Complete lock downs were also in place in the UK when the vaccinations took off.

 

Did you see this post?

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1217027-thailand grants-emergency-use-approval-for-moderna-covid-19-vaccine-official/?do=findComment&comment=16475413

 

It's true that they don't seem to be technically very effective, based on this sample, But effectiveness isn't the only criterion for how a vaccine performs. Like Sinovac, J&J, and AZ, these vaccines provide very strong protections against serious illness and death. Another good reason why everyone should get vaccinated since herd immunity seems out of reach.

[Catoni]

21 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I can’t believe the media is still so misleading about this. 

 

Covid-19 is the disease, the symptom. 

SARS-CoV-2 is the virus.

 

Vaccines are effective to varying degrees against Covid-19 (the disease).

For example, Sinovac is 50.4% effective against contraction of Covid-19, it is 78% effective against contracting mild symptoms of Covid-19 and is 100% effective against contraction severe symptoms of Covid-19 (and death). 

 

BUT, the virus can still be ‘breathed in’ someone can still carry SARS-CoV-2 and effectively be ‘asymptomatic’

 

Vaccinated individuals are not immune to ‘breathing in’ the virus and having that virus in their system for a few days. These individuals will test positive for SARS-CoV-2 when they take an Covid-19 RT PCR test. 

 

Vaccinated individuals are more likely to pass the the virus (i.e. their body gets rid of it) more readily than unvaccinated individuals such that they are contagious for more brief period of time. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Vaccinated people’s anti-bodies and T- Cells quickly attack and kill the virus. Their body’s virus load never gets a chance to grow much at all. Much harder for a fully vaccinated person to spread the virus because their virus load stays so small and is cleared out quickly. 
 

[placeholder]

How about this? These people were inoculated with the Coronavac virus

 

After Mass Vaccine Experiment, Serrana Plans Return to Normality

https://brazilian.report/liveblog/2021/05/14/serrana-vaccine-normality/

 

Here's how things are going in the rest of state of Sao Paolo:

https://www.bing.com/covid/local/sopaulo_brazil

Edited May 16, 2021 by onthedarkside
quote of hidden post removed

[zaZa9]

https://www.africanews.com/2021/05/14/seychelles-covid-19-cases-among-vaccinated-individuals-alarms-experts/

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, zaZa9 said:

https://www.africanews.com/2021/05/14/seychelles-covid-19-cases-among-vaccinated-individuals-alarms-experts/

Currently only 33% of Seychellians have been fully vaccinated. What's more, none of the fully vaccinated have come down with serous symptoms or died. 

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/05/14/africa/seychelles-covid-vaccination-infection-intl-hnk-dst/index.html

[AnnieSeek]

On 5/14/2021 at 7:22 AM, BritManToo said:

Interestingly enough this came up on a largely American forum in which I participate.

Apparently, there is no central database for COVID vaccination in the USA, your proof is a hand written scrap of paper any printer can produce.

CDC say not their responsibility to keep records, up to individual states (who mainly haven't bothered).

Same in the UK, most vaccination centers don't even give a certificate of vaccination.

 

So how would an airline check?

Blood test at the check-in desk is the only way I can see.

 

This is nonsense. In the UK your data is loaded up onto your NHS number, which you need to book an appointment (or they will have it from your address details). You can then log into the NHS app and it will show your vaccines there. 

[BigC]

On 5/14/2021 at 6:23 AM, Jeffr2 said:

Well put @starky!!  We have AZ and Sinovac available here.  Maybe in a few months, others will become available.  Nothing wrong with these two jabs.  All vaccines have side effects, all.  Get what ever jab you can as you'll be getting another one in a year anyway.

 

 

isn't  sinovac only 51.7 % effective ?

 

also made in China  which i will not put anything  made in China  willingly into my body ...

Edited May 16, 2021 by onthedarkside
derogatory comment removed

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, BigC said:

isn't  sinovac only 51.7 % effective ?

 

also made in China  which i will not put anything  made in China  willingly into my body...

 

As far as effectivity against serious illness and death, no. It's a lot more effective.

[Jeffr2]

2 hours ago, BigC said:

isn't  sinovac only 51.7 % effective ?

 

also made in China  which i will not put anything  made in China  willingly into my body...

 

Different studies have shown different rates.  Some put it as high as 70%.  It's an OK jab that will keep you from dying or in the ICU.  Pretty good, IMHO.  Many things made in China are just fine.  Though I'm no fan of the government there.

[placeholder]

12 hours ago, starky said:

4000 a day plus in India mate doesn't matter what they were previously dying from. You pick and choose your figures you say hardly anyone dying of covid then bring up the even smaller number who died after being vaccinated your whole argument is a straw man. 

   People aren't dying from the flu because covid is so much worse don't you get that ? It doesn't mean the flu has gone away f fff s..  

  Yes and the 40 000 a month that used to die in the US are now being cleaned up by covid as well but having contributing factors doesn't mean it's not covid that's killing them sooner.  HIV only killed a few thousand in the first couple years. Now it's killed over 70 million worldwide with a million more dying every year so your rubbish 0.00004 per cent or whatever it is you claim means nothing over an extended timeline. That number is rising every day. Who knows what that figure could end up being. Until people stop dying we can't tell what the real mortality rate is.   

 

 

Actually, this year the flu has pretty much gone away. It's a lot less contagious than covid so masking and social distancing have pretty much put a halt to it.

 

The Flu Vanished During Covid. What Will Its Return Look Like?

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/04/22/science/flu-season-coronavirus-pandemic.html

[nrasmussen]

On 5/14/2021 at 1:22 PM, BritManToo said:

Interestingly enough this came up on a largely American forum in which I participate.

Apparently, there is no central database for COVID vaccination in the USA, your proof is a hand written scrap of paper any printer can produce.

CDC say not their responsibility to keep records, up to individual states (who mainly haven't bothered).

Same in the UK, most vaccination centers don't even give a certificate of vaccination.

 

So how would an airline check?

Blood test at the check-in desk is the only way I can see.

 

IATA has already thought of that:

https://www.iata.org/en/youandiata/travelers/iata-travel-pass-for-travelers/

[thailandusauk]

So we have no choice but accept the vaccine and say that it is good ?

[kimamey]

On 5/14/2021 at 3:49 AM, BritManToo said:

Are you claiming asymptomatic COVID infected can't spread the disease?

I thought the entire 'pro-vaxx' lobby stood on the theory you should have the vaccine to protect other people?

Vaccination won't stop transmission but it should lessen it which does protect other people. More importantly vaccines don't always work and there are some people who can't be vaccinated for various reasons and they need the protection of high vaccination rates.

 

[jak2002003]

On 5/14/2021 at 8:23 AM, starky said:

Yes but they are mostly all asymptomatic

Mostly asymptomatic...like mostly all the people in the world that catch Covid then? 

[jak2002003]

59 minutes ago, kimamey said:

Vaccination won't stop transmission ......

 

vaccines don't always work........

 

some people ...... need the protection of high vaccination rates.

 

Hmmm....sounds like the vaccine is rubbish then and the general population don't need it.

 

And those people that need the protection of high vaccination rate will ALWAYS need protection from ANY of the thousands of diseases that exist.  And so they should be the ones taking the precautions, isolating, wearing masks and not going to public places. 

 

If they are that fragile and at risk they very selfish and irresponsible to be going out partying and mixing with the general population anyway aren't they? 

 

 

[jak2002003]

On 5/14/2021 at 4:13 PM, bangsaenguy said:

No one should be forced to receive the vaccine. However, they should not be allowed to spread the virus. Surely the should never be allowed on a plane and should not object to be isolated from the rest of the population, possibly in Nakhon Nowhere, never to leave unless vaccinated.

How will an unvaccinated person spread the virus to a vaccinated one?

 

If you have so much confidence in the vaccines then  vaccinated people will have nothing to fear from unvaccinated ones will they? 

 

And if you think it might lead to more mutations and a stronger strain, the same could be said for vaccinated people...the virus might develop resistance to the vaccine and only the most deadly and contagious strains will survive.. like the situation currently  happening with many bacterial diseases because of the overuse of antibiotics.

..and the reason why many doctors won't prescribe antibiotics to patients now.