Mixing vaccines - recommendations

[Rickoverseas]

^{Hello, I’m hoping to get some help on this topic... my employer has informed us that this weekend we must have the Sinovac or if not, pay to have weekly covid tests at our own expense. There is no other vaccine available to us at present.} 

^{How safe is the Sinovac, especially in relation to in the future having a different vaccine (our home country has not approved this one)? I understand it has been developed using a more traditional method of delivery using inactivated virus, unlike the others currently approved in our home countries.} 

^{Any advice would be helpful, I’m not even overly keen on having any vaccine but I’m sure there will be a point in timewhen I’ll have to have it to return home. Thanks in advance!}

[Thomas J]

8 minutes ago, Rickoverseas said:

^{Hello, I’m hoping to get some help on this topic... my employer has informed us that this weekend we must have the Sinovac or if not, pay to have weekly covid tests at our own expense. There is no other vaccine available to us at present.} 

^{How safe is the Sinovac, especially in relation to in the future having a different vaccine (our home country has not approved this one)? I understand it has been developed using a more traditional method of delivery using inactivated virus, unlike the others currently approved in our home countries.} 

^{Any advice would be helpful, I’m not even overly keen on having any vaccine but I’m sure there will be a point in timewhen I’ll have to have it to return home. Thanks in advance!}

I think the answers are to be determined. One thing is for sure.  Many countries do not recognize Sinovac so if you traveled to those countries you would have to get vaccinated by one of the vaccines approved by them.  With Pfizer, and Moderna more countries recognizing them, a person would have entry to more countries.  

 

Sinovac COVID-19 vaccine shows 50% effectiveness in a cohort of Brazilian healthcare workers

 

 

 

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[clivebaxter]

Have the sinovac now and get moderna later when it's on sale, it wont kill you but the virus might.

[Chicken George]

As far as I can make out the Sinovac is a traditional dead virus vaccine so you can have any other vaccine afterwards. I intend to have a top up later in the year if I get giving Sinovac at my appointment. I'm happy to pay when local private hospitals get stock..????

[Anant72]

18 hours ago, clivebaxter said:

Have the sinovac now and get moderna later when it's on sale, it wont kill you but the virus might.

I understand that mixing vaccines may even be a good idea. I heard it on French TV this morning from a French doctor who reports regularly on the latest news regarding the pandemic. He said each vaccine boosts the immune system, whichever it is and using 2 different ones would do the job of protecting you.

[sandyf]

18 hours ago, Thomas J said:

One thing is for sure.  Many countries do not recognize Sinovac so if you traveled to those countries you would have to get vaccinated by one of the vaccines approved by them. 

Obviously if you are so "sure", there shouldn't be any problem posting a list of the countries that do not recognise Sinovac.

I won't be holding my breath as you are spreading misinformation based on speculation over vaccine passports and the WHO emergency use listing. That speculation may well come to an end this week.

https://www.thephuketnews.com/who-nod-for-sinovac-vaccine-expected-this-week-80109.php

[handymannz]

As Thomas said that the Sinovac vaccine only 50% effective. Get a vaccine but 1 of the others when available would be better.

[Thomas J]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

Obviously if you are so "sure", there shouldn't be any problem posting a list of the countries that do not recognise Sinovac.

I won't be holding my breath as you are spreading misinformation based on speculation over vaccine passports and the WHO emergency use listing. That speculation may well come to an end this week.

https://www.thephuketnews.com/who-nod-for-sinovac-vaccine-expected-this-week-80109.php

Can I just list Europe or do I need to post a list of countries in the EU

Edited May 25, 2021 by Thomas J

[khunPer]

20 hours ago, Rickoverseas said:

Any advice would be helpful, I’m not even overly keen on having any vaccine but I’m sure there will be a point in timewhen I’ll have to have it to return home. Thanks in advance!

How old are you?

Under 60 years Sinovac is recommended, 60 years or older AatraZeneca is recommended.

 

Sinovac is dead virus and quite safe, and the latest studies also shows fairly good protection. AZ, Johnson & Johnson and Russian Sputnik V(ector) are vector-vaccines that has show side effects with blood clots in younger people, mainly younger women, therefore the recommendation 60 years or older.

 

There are a few observations from Denmark from first jab with AZ and next jab with Pfizer, as Denmark, Norway and latest Hungary, abandoned the AZ-vaccine due to blood clots side effects. There seems to be little risk of side effects when mixing AZ and Pfizer, but so far very limited observations over a short period.

 

We might all need a booster or yearly re-vaccination for some time in the future, nobody knows, and it seems like vaccine brands could change upon re-vaccination, also because more vaccines might be available within the coming year.

 

If me, I wouldn't mind to get a Sinovac vaccine, but they have booked me for an AZ due to being 60+ years old, I probably don't have any choice...????

[vivananahuahin]

2 hours ago, Anant72 said:

I understand that mixing vaccines may even be a good idea. I heard it on French TV this morning from a French doctor who reports regularly on the latest news regarding the pandemic. He said each vaccine boosts the immune system, whichever it is and using 2 different ones would do the job of protecting you.

He can boost also too much and then you receive a big storm in your body.

[Robbie2618]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

Obviously if you are so "sure", there shouldn't be any problem posting a list of the countries that do not recognise Sinovac.

I won't be holding my breath as you are spreading misinformation based on speculation over vaccine passports and the WHO emergency use listing. That speculation may well come to an end this week.

https://www.thephuketnews.com/who-nod-for-sinovac-vaccine-expected-this-week-80109.php

 

Sandyf, I really hate snooty comments like "Your Spreading misinformation" When a quick Google search says otherwise. Here is an article that came out today. 

 

https://www.newsweek.com/which-countries-will-require-proof-vaccination-before-travelers-enter-1591313

 

"Already, the European Union is planning to allow Americans vaccinated with shots approved by their drug agency to enter over the summer, European Commission president Ursula von der Leyen suggested in a New York Times interview Sunday.

 

This means that those who have shots by Chinese makers like Sinovac Biotech Ltd. and Sinopharm Group Co. Ltd. are likely to be barred from entry for the foreseeable future, with stark consequences for global business activity and the revival of international tourism"

 

Also when I came in Suvarnabhumi Airport last month going through where they where checking paperwork there was a sign that listed what Vaccines Thailand accepts. If you had one of those you could do the reduced length quarantine. If not one of those then Thailand does not recognize you as being immunized and had to do the full quarantine. So yes there are countries that have approved and not approved vaccine lists for entry requirements with our own Thailand be one off them already in place.

Edited May 25, 2021 by Robbie2618
Missed a name

[Rickoverseas]

Thank you to everyone who has contributed so far, definitely some interesting points raised and aspects to consider. 

 

Im in my mid-thirties, my main concerns are following up the Sinovac with another vaccine which uses a different method, and also the med-long term effects of any vacc... it’s all such an unknown and with a young family it’s causing me a fair amount of worry. 

 

From what I’ve found out so far, I’m leaning towards a preference for Janssen (Johnson & Johnson) when the time comes. I feel more comfortable with the science behind its development and method of operation, I have a fairly good understanding of efficacy and where these figures are derived from. 

 

Has anyone heard when J&J could potentially become available here? 

 

Thanks again to all

[placnx]

4 hours ago, sandyf said:

Obviously if you are so "sure", there shouldn't be any problem posting a list of the countries that do not recognise Sinovac.

I won't be holding my breath as you are spreading misinformation based on speculation over vaccine passports and the WHO emergency use listing. That speculation may well come to an end this week.

https://www.thephuketnews.com/who-nod-for-sinovac-vaccine-expected-this-week-80109.php

Countries can make their own decisions about whom to admit and ignore WHO advice on Sinovac.

[charliechoc]

1 hour ago, Rickoverseas said:

J&J could potentially become available here

ha ha. Good luck with that one. next year?

 

I will take 1 shot of sinovac and another AZ x 2 probably

[Ireland32]

19 hours ago, sandyf said:

Obviously if you are so "sure", there shouldn't be any problem posting a list of the countries that do not recognise Sinovac.

I won't be holding my breath as you are spreading misinformation based on speculation over vaccine passports and the WHO emergency use listing. That speculation may well come to an end this week.

https://www.thephuketnews.com/who-nod-for-sinovac-vaccine-expected-this-week-80109.php

Europe won’t let you enter with Sinovac and I’m sure many more it’s inferior garbage

[Ireland32]

19 hours ago, sandyf said:

Obviously if you are so "sure", there shouldn't be any problem posting a list of the countries that do not recognise Sinovac.

I won't be holding my breath as you are spreading misinformation based on speculation over vaccine passports and the WHO emergency use listing. That speculation may well come to an end this week.

https://www.thephuketnews.com/who-nod-for-sinovac-vaccine-expected-this-week-80109.php

You didn’t see Prayut getting Sinovac 

[Ireland32]

19 hours ago, Anant72 said:

I understand that mixing vaccines may even be a good idea. I heard it on French TV this morning from a French doctor who reports regularly on the latest news regarding the pandemic. He said each vaccine boosts the immune system, whichever it is and using 2 different ones would do the job of protecting you.

Spanish Research 

[sandyf]

On 5/25/2021 at 5:02 PM, Thomas J said:

Can I just list Europe or do I need to post a list of countries in the EU

The EU has not said it does not recognise Sinovac, the vaccine is still under investigation.

So unless you have had sight of the findings what you have posted is all speculation, not fact.

[sandyf]

On 5/25/2021 at 6:38 PM, Robbie2618 said:

 

Sandyf, I really hate snooty comments like "Your Spreading misinformation" When a quick Google search says otherwise. Here is an article that came out today. 

 

https://www.newsweek.com/which-countries-will-require-proof-vaccination-before-travelers-enter-1591313

 

"Already, the European Union is planning to allow Americans vaccinated with shots approved by their drug agency to enter over the summer, European Commission president Ursula von der Leyen suggested in a New York Times interview Sunday.

 

This means that those who have shots by Chinese makers like Sinovac Biotech Ltd. and Sinopharm Group Co. Ltd. are likely to be barred from entry for the foreseeable future, with stark consequences for global business activity and the revival of international tourism"

 

Also when I came in Suvarnabhumi Airport last month going through where they where checking paperwork there was a sign that listed what Vaccines Thailand accepts. If you had one of those you could do the reduced length quarantine. If not one of those then Thailand does not recognize you as being immunized and had to do the full quarantine. So yes there are countries that have approved and not approved vaccine lists for entry requirements with our own Thailand be one off them already in place.

You would have to remind me then what "likely" means, obviously to some it is fact.

 

"are likely to be barred from entry for the foreseeable future, "

[sandyf]

On 5/25/2021 at 7:46 PM, Rickoverseas said:

Thank you to everyone who has contributed so far, definitely some interesting points raised and aspects to consider. 

 

Im in my mid-thirties, my main concerns are following up the Sinovac with another vaccine which uses a different method, and also the med-long term effects of any vacc... it’s all such an unknown and with a young family it’s causing me a fair amount of worry. 

 

From what I’ve found out so far, I’m leaning towards a preference for Janssen (Johnson & Johnson) when the time comes. I feel more comfortable with the science behind its development and method of operation, I have a fairly good understanding of efficacy and where these figures are derived from. 

 

Has anyone heard when J&J could potentially become available here? 

 

Thanks again to all

Last I heard it would be around end of year. Not a lot of incentive to push it since the blood clot problem.

[sandyf]

On 5/25/2021 at 8:37 PM, placnx said:

Countries can make their own decisions about whom to admit and ignore WHO advice on Sinovac.

So no problem posting a list the countries that have specifically said they will not recognise a Sinovac certificate.

[sandyf]

21 hours ago, Ireland32 said:

Europe won’t let you enter with Sinovac and I’m sure many more it’s inferior garbage

Obviously you would have a link to when that became effective.

[placnx]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

So no problem posting a list the countries that have specifically said they will not recognise a Sinovac certificate.

That will be clearer when countries are implementing their apps to certify vaccinations. In principle, like Thailand, countries will approve vaccines. With over 200 vaccines in the pipeline, this could become a big list that will not be manageable without a database and various apps.

[Thomas J]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

The EU has not said it does not recognise Sinovac, the vaccine is still under investigation.

That sounds like Bill Clinton's it depends on what your definition of "is" "is"  They have not approved it. The fact they have not said "they did not say, they don't recognize it" is no different than they are still investigating it and have not approved it.  The fact remains the EU has not "recognized" Sinovac and as such you "may" have trouble traveling to the EU if you are not vaccinated with one of their approved vaccines. No different than China.  Though much of the world has approved Pfizer and Moderna, if you travel to China they have only approved Chinese vaccines.  So likewise you may have trouble entering China if you are vaccinated by Pfizer, Moderna, Astra Zeneca, Johnson & Johnson etc. 

[placnx]

25 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

That sounds like Bill Clinton's it depends on what your definition of "is" "is"  They have not approved it. The fact they have not said "they did not say, they don't recognize it" is no different than they are still investigating it and have not approved it.  The fact remains the EU has not "recognized" Sinovac and as such you "may" have trouble traveling to the EU if you are not vaccinated with one of their approved vaccines. No different than China.  Though much of the world has approved Pfizer and Moderna, if you travel to China they have only approved Chinese vaccines.  So likewise you may have trouble entering China if you are vaccinated by Pfizer, Moderna, Astra Zeneca, Johnson & Johnson etc. 

Fosun in China has a deal with Pfizer's partner BioNTech to get or domestically produce the Pfizer vaccine. So they are going to approve that one, just in case you want to visit China.

[Thomas J]

1 minute ago, placnx said:

Fosun in China has a deal with Pfizer's partner BioNTech to get or domestically produce the Pfizer vaccine. So they are going to approve that one, just in case you want to visit China.

I think eventually there will be some global recognition of approved vaccines.  It is too cumbersome to believe that a business traveler in particular would have to have multiple vaccines to travel to different countries.  

At present, Pfizer and Moderna are probably the most recognized so if I am going to get a jab it will be one of those two.  Since I travel, why would I want to take at this time Sinovac which reportedly has a lower rate of Covid prevention and is recognized by fewer countries.  If I did take Sinovac I probably would find I would have to also take one of the other vaccines anyway.  

That "may" not be such a bad thing.  I don't know if taking multiple different vaccines triggers different immune response in the body providing greater protection.  Or alternatively if taking different vaccines can be harmful. 

 

[sandyf]

4 hours ago, placnx said:

That will be clearer when countries are implementing their apps to certify vaccinations. In principle, like Thailand, countries will approve vaccines. With over 200 vaccines in the pipeline, this could become a big list that will not be manageable without a database and various apps.

Nothing is fact until countries actually implement a policy, until then it is speculation so it it is wrong to say a country does not recognise something before the policy is in place. 

[friendofthai]

According to the recent real-life study, Sinovac is a highly effective and safe vaccine.

 

[sandyf]

4 hours ago, Thomas J said:

That sounds like Bill Clinton's it depends on what your definition of "is" "is"  They have not approved it. The fact they have not said "they did not say, they don't recognize it" is no different than they are still investigating it and have not approved it.  The fact remains the EU has not "recognized" Sinovac and as such you "may" have trouble traveling to the EU if you are not vaccinated with one of their approved vaccines. No different than China.  Though much of the world has approved Pfizer and Moderna, if you travel to China they have only approved Chinese vaccines.  So likewise you may have trouble entering China if you are vaccinated by Pfizer, Moderna, Astra Zeneca, Johnson & Johnson etc. 

Irrelevant. Come back when the EU introduces the vaccine certificate requirement.

[friendofthai]

I recommend an informational quarantine for about 1 week prior to vaccination. During the informational quarantine you should not read any western news sources. This will help to reduce moral discomfort during the procedure.