Marriage visa clarifications

[Tanoshi]

12 hours ago, frabar said:

thanks all, much appreciated.(youre a helpful bunch).

Prior to Covid and the land borders closing, there were many ways to stay almost repeatedly in Thailand. Some that entered VE,TV, or Non Imm O ME at the beginning of last year now get 60 day Covid extension.

 

Once you receive the 1 year extension based on marriage you can withdraw the 400K and spend the lot, then top it up to 400K again 2 months prior to the following years application.

 

If borders were open, once married the other option would be to obtain the Non Imm O ME Visa locally from Lao or Vietnam. No proof of funds required.

The Visa is valid for 12 months, each entry permits a 90 day stay, which can be extended for a further 60 days. If used to it's potential, you can stay almost 17 months, 3 border runs and 3 60 day extensions.

That's what a number of married foreigners previously did.

Edited June 12, 2021 by Tanoshi

[frabar]

the 400k isnt really a problem. i can keep it there indefinitely.

just out of curiosity, what happens if youre married like this and staying in thailand for lets say 40 years, and then your thai spouse dies of old age...they'd just kick you out at 80 years old like it was nothing?

no recourse of any kind? like a grace exemption (given the situation)

[ubonjoe]

10 minutes ago, frabar said:

the 400k isnt really a problem. i can keep it there indefinitely.

just out of curiosity, what happens if youre married like this and staying in thailand for lets say 40 years, and then your thai spouse dies of old age...they'd just kick you out at 80 years old like it was nothing?

no recourse of any kind? like a grace exemption (given the situation)

If your wife dies your extension of stay will remain valid to the day it expires. That would normally give you time to apply for different type of extension of stay. At 80 that would be a extension based upon retirement or if you have a child from the marriage a extension based upon being their father is available.

[Tanoshi]

13 minutes ago, frabar said:

the 400k isnt really a problem. i can keep it there indefinitely.

just out of curiosity, what happens if youre married like this and staying in thailand for lets say 40 years, and then your thai spouse dies of old age...they'd just kick you out at 80 years old like it was nothing?

no recourse of any kind? like a grace exemption (given the situation)

In the case your Thai wife deceased then the extension granted on the basis of marriage remains valid until the end of permission of stay granted.

If you wanted to stay, then now being widowed, you'd have to apply based on retirement, so the financial requirements change.

 

If you already have 400K in a Thai bank, then by transferring 33,500 a month (pension) from an overseas bank to your Thai bank you could meet the 800K requirements using the combination method.

[IvorBiggun2]

18 minutes ago, frabar said:

the 400k isnt really a problem. i can keep it there indefinitely.

Keeping it in a bank indefinitely could be a problem. I used to do that but Kap Choeng told me that they wanted to see movement within the account  or they would assume my wife was supporting me or I was working. I'm sure they just like to mess us around.

[ubonjoe]

25 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Keeping it in a bank indefinitely could be a problem. I used to do that but Kap Choeng told me that they wanted to see movement within the account  or they would assume my wife was supporting me or I was working. I'm sure they just like to mess us around.

It would be fairly easy to get around that if you have another account you transfer money into and show them that bank book.

[IvorBiggun2]

20 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

t would be fairly easy to get around that if you have another account you transfer money into and show them that bank book.

Sorry I didn't explain myself properly. My extension money was kept in a fixed term account. I had an account for our everyday requirements but it didn't meet the 400,000 required. The IO said 'fixed term accounts were not allowed', at that time. Reason as I stated earlier.

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

The IO said 'fixed term accounts were not allowed', at that time.

He was wrong back then. Of course there are some offices that still say a fixed term account is not allowed.

[Tanoshi]

48 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Keeping it in a bank indefinitely could be a problem. I used to do that but Kap Choeng told me that they wanted to see movement within the account  or they would assume my wife was supporting me or I was working. I'm sure they just like to mess us around.

I've heard of this issue before, even at my local IO.

I have a Fixed term account with over 400K, that I use as evidence of meeting the financial requirements.

I also have a separate Savings account for transferring living expenses into.

 

Since 3 years ago, I requested the bank to put the details of both accounts on the letter.

I only submit updated Passbook of the 400K+ Fixed Term deposit account though.

They can then clearly see I have a separate account than that used to meet the financial requirements, therefore removing any suspicion that your being supported by Thai wife or working illegally.

[Shannoblic]

As Ubon & Tanoshi have said, every office [and Immigration Officer] can have different views.

 

Personally, I keep 400k in one bank [Kasikorn] in a savings account and have monthly payments into another account [Bangkok Bank] for living expenses.  I have never been asked for proof of living expenses, only the 400k in the savings account, but I do take the precaution of having the monthly living expenses transfers [via TransferWise now Wise]  marked as FTT so if necessary I can prove income from abroad monthly.  

[Shannoblic]

A quick aside to UJ & Tanoshi - if my wife did die am I obliged to tell Immigration immediately or do I wait until me marriage extension is due to expire?  I am very keen [as previous posts will show] to make sure I am as fully prepared for all circumstances as I can be.

 

Thanks guys.

[ubonjoe]

13 minutes ago, Shannoblic said:

A quick aside to UJ & Tanoshi - if my wife did die am I obliged to tell Immigration immediately or do I wait until me marriage extension is due to expire? 

You do not have to inform immigration since your extension of stay based upon marriage to a Thai will still be valid until it expires. But best to contact immigration before it is close to expiring to find out what your best option is.

[Shannoblic]

Thank you UJ.

[orchidfan]

Who says (apart from one IO in the OP)

Including providing the 400k 2 months before from her business interests?

Never been asked to justify this, nor show the 400k is still.in the account during "under consideration period".

Just lucky that that's how my local office (PT) works.

[walt1]

The main problem is each office or IO can say the rules are what they say and you have little choice but comply. I would like to get a checklist with what is required but my office only has something in Thai that is not helpful. I had been using the income letter route but no longer possible. When I renewed that last income letter extension I asked what was required to renew with income transferred into Thailand. They gave me a short list that said X amount of baht in bank or transferred in at least for 1 month previous to application. Ok next year go in with six trees of paper work for marriage extension told no can do didn't have transfers in every month. I showed them the print out they had given last year, where did you get that they asked, from here I said, more folks come into the discussion. Long story short had to put 400,000 Baht in bank get 60 day visiting wife ext. and then got the extension. Went in this year with all the forms. I had labeled 123 ect. all the deposits to make it easy for them as last year they were upset it wasn't in order. I started US SS in Sept 2020 DD to BB all is well then what are these earlier transfers? I transferred that in via Wise (FTT)  to meet the monthly rule. No NO No can't do that it must be transferred in by someone else like your SS. WTH? Luckily I had 400K in the bank but one week short of 60 days. So only a wasted long trip but a real pain.

 Sorry for the rant but it is so frustrating. I have used this office for over 5 years and always good service, but now with the marriage route it's a pain. They say those are the rules from Bangkok and they have no choice. I can keep the 400K in the bank to solve that problem but not sure all the extra hassle is worth it, I may just go back to the retirement route next year. 

[walt1]

On 6/17/2021 at 9:48 PM, Tanoshi said:

In the case your Thai wife deceased then the extension granted on the basis of marriage remains valid until the end of permission of stay granted.

If you wanted to stay, then now being widowed, you'd have to apply based on retirement, so the financial requirements change.

 

If you already have 400K in a Thai bank, then by transferring 33,500 a month (pension) from an overseas bank to your Thai bank you could meet the 800K requirements using the combination method.

Is there a formula they use for that? Or just the total over the year adds up to 800,000. For example 50,000 in each month plus 200,000 deposited.

[ubonjoe]

13 minutes ago, walt1 said:

I transferred that in via Wise (FTT)  to meet the monthly rule. No NO No can't do that it must be transferred in by someone else like your SS.

It does not have to be transferred by the SSA and etc but you will need proof of the source of you income.

I have mine transferred to Bangkok Bangkok bank and the all are shown as FTT (foreign telex transfer) and they still want proof of the source. I used the annual COLA letter they send to me and my SSA1099 to prove the source for 2 extensions. I make copies of them and show the 18" long originals I get in the mail.

Have set up SMS notices for your direct deposits at Bangkok Bank. I have those as a backup proof since they say the transfer came from the SSA.

This form this page on Bangkok Banks website. https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Other-Services/Transfers/Transferring-Into-Thailand/Transfer-money-from-US-to-Thailand-via-Bangkok-Bank-NewYork-branch

"You can also choose to fill out an SMS Remittance Alert Service Request Form to receive an SMS notification on your mobile phone when funds have been successfully transferred into your Bangkok Bank account."

When I set it up the bank here they had to call the Bangkok office to get the request form for it by fax.

This is the SMS I get.

SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTR has transferred THBxxxxxx ([email protected] - THB200.00) from abroad into < account number>.

[ubonjoe]

28 minutes ago, walt1 said:

Is there a formula they use for that? Or just the total over the year adds up to 800,000. For example 50,000 in each month plus 200,000 deposited.

The income is the total amount for a year added to the money the bank to reach a total of at least 800k baht. The money in the bank must be in the bank for 2 months on the day you apply. Then the money in the must stay in the bank for 3 months after the day you apply and then at least half of it until you top it up to the needed amount to apply.

Note there are some offices that may have a minimum amount to be in the bank when you do the extension.

[walt1]

Thank you UJ. That is all well and good but IO didn't agree. I offered to show my personal pension info deposited in my US bank and transferred via Wise with the FTT code but that was not acceptable. I showed the form from SS but that only started mid way thru, before that I used Wise.  I think I will use that route next time and get the retirement extension.

Edited June 19, 2021 by walt1
UJ types faster than me. addition

[ubonjoe]

14 minutes ago, walt1 said:

Thank you UJ. That is all well and good but IO didn't agree. I offered to show my personal pension info deposited in my US bank and transferred via Wise with the FTT code but that was not acceptable. I showed the form from SS but that only started mid way thru, before that I used Wise.  I think I will use that route next time and get the retirement extension.

There are offices the put up roadblocks to use the income option proven by transfers into a Thai bank. 

The first time I did it took awhile to get to the point of it being accepted since I may of been one of the first people to do it after the embassy stopped doing income affidavits. I had a big stack of extra proof if asked for.

Last year for 2nd one they said something about having my SSA documents stamped by the embassy but that stopped after the head officer sent a photo of the original to somebody and got approval.

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, walt1 said:

Is there a formula they use for that? Or just the total over the year adds up to 800,000. For example 50,000 in each month plus 200,000 deposited.

According to orders, the funds and income must total 800K for the year.

I have read the odd office insisting the funds must be a minimum of 400K (same as if you were using the funds only method), there may even be the odd office that refuses the combination method.

Generally and my experience is that provided the two (and better to keep the funds in a separate account for clarity) total 800K, the application will be approved.

[walt1]

Other than leaving there is not much we can do but jump through the hoops. At least I can still do that.

[Tanoshi]

50 minutes ago, walt1 said:

Thank you UJ. That is all well and good but IO didn't agree. I offered to show my personal pension info deposited in my US bank and transferred via Wise with the FTT code but that was not acceptable. I showed the form from SS but that only started mid way thru, before that I used Wise.  I think I will use that route next time and get the retirement extension.

The first time I did an extension based on income (on behalf of a disabled expat) after certain Embassies stopped issuing Income letters, I was continually informed the applicant didn't meet the financial requirements, even though I'd produced an updated Passbook with 12 FTT coded transfers, a 12 month bank statement and proof of the source of his income.

Some 3 hours later after arguing back and forth, using their own orders as proof, I realised he didn't understand the bank documents presented and was going of the monthly 'balance' rather than the 'deposited' income. He was sceptical of my explanation of the difference between a 'credit', debit' and balance.

It was only resolved when I rang the bank and asked them to explain his account entries.

 

Last year, same applicant. different officer, same financial evidence, even though each monthly overseas transfer was between 67 -68,000 baht, he had to take out a calculator, enter all 12 transfers, then divide by 12, before he was satisfied he met the requirements.

 

At times you have to deal with uneducated, non logical personnel that simply don't understand what they're looking at, or what to do about it.

Hence they much prefer the 800K in an untouched account, or for income, the Embassy income letters.

 

In your case you should have taken copies of their own orders to reference and show them, or request to speak to a supervisor. Don't assume they are familiar with their own orders, some are not.

[Tanoshi]

27 minutes ago, walt1 said:

Other than leaving there is not much we can do but jump through the hoops. At least I can still do that.

You shouldn't have to. The minimum to expect is a well trained official, familiar with their orders and with at least a level of English speaking ability to communicate amicable. Sadly all 3 of those qualities are generally lacking.

The hoops I can deal with, the frustration is a different matter.

[frabar]

i know people hire foreign domestic helpers and stuff like that.

would it be possible for an "individual" to hire me as a personal "live-in" teacher, or domestic helper or some other stuff like that?

can that get you a work visa? would that be a possible workaround? 

or does it have to go through an agency in order to be legit?

[Myran]

12 minutes ago, frabar said:

i know people hire foreign domestic helpers and stuff like that.

would it be possible for an "individual" to hire me as a personal "live-in" teacher, or domestic helper or some other stuff like that?

can that get you a work visa? would that be a possible workaround? 

or does it have to go through an agency in order to be legit?

You would have to be hired by an actual company, not just a person.

[mrwebb8825]

7 hours ago, frabar said:

i know people hire foreign domestic helpers and stuff like that.

would it be possible for an "individual" to hire me as a personal "live-in" teacher, or domestic helper or some other stuff like that?

can that get you a work visa? would that be a possible workaround? 

or does it have to go through an agency in order to be legit?

There's a list of jobs foreigners can't do here-No "work visas" would be issued for those.

7 hours ago, Myran said:

You would have to be hired by an actual company, not just a person.

Technically correct. ????

[frabar]

question: is there any neighboring country that lets you get married with no hassle or exorbitant amounts of fees? and then can come back to thailand and apply for marriage visa?(does thailand recognize marriage to a thai citizen if done outside of thailand)?

[fishtank]

9 hours ago, frabar said:

 with no hassle or exorbitant amounts of fees? 

What hassle is this?

Cheap and easy to marry in Thailand.

[ubonjoe]

9 hours ago, frabar said:

question: is there any neighboring country that lets you get married with no hassle or exorbitant amounts of fees? and then can come back to thailand and apply for marriage visa?(does thailand recognize marriage to a thai citizen if done outside of thailand)?

I think you would find all the neighboring countries would be very difficult to get married in.

What has hassles and exorbitant fees. It does not cost much to get your affirmation of permit to marry translated and certified. The fee to get married at a Amphoe is very small.

I think more people have more problems getting the affirmation of permit to marry from their embassy.