No insurance

[Kalasin Jo]

Hi, my wife came off her motorbike on the highway and was hospitalised. The hospital is now telling her that without the mandatory basic motor insurance she, therefore I, must pay for her medical care and stay. Is this correct?

[jackdd]

Afaik that's basically correct, but limited to the amount which the insurance would have covered. With her being at fault the insurance would have paid 30k, so that should be the most she has to pay.

[Peterw42]

The Por Lor Bor insurance should cover the 1st 30k, does the bike have plate and sticker ??

If the bike has plate and sticker, it has por lor bor insurance ?, the insurance is still valid even if the sticker is out of date. (when you renew the sticker, you pay for the years with no sticker)

 

Edited June 10, 2021 by Peterw42

[itsari]

I believe that in Thailand under the matrimonial property law the husband is liable for medical expenses incurred by his wife .

[Kwasaki]

6 hours ago, Kalasin Jo said:

The hospital is now telling her that without the mandatory basic motor insurance she, therefore I, must pay for her medical care and stay. Is this correct?

Of coarse it's correct how ridiculous to not pay the tiny amount of CTPL.

[Kalasin Jo]

Thanks guys. Thought so. All her other medical care has been covered by the Thai healthcare system so I just wanted to check.

[Sheryl]

Can't register amotobike without the mandatory insurance. 

 

Or has both insurance and registration expired?

[Moonlover]

14 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

The Por Lor Bor insurance should cover the 1st 30k, does the bike have plate and sticker ??

If the bike has plate and sticker, it has por lor bor insurance ?, the insurance is still valid even if the sticker is out of date. (when you renew the sticker, you pay for the years with no sticker)

 

Nonsense. It's standard procedure to buy one year's insurance along with a years road tax, running concurrently.

 

If his wife's motorcycle had the Por Lor Bor insurance, he wouldn't be asking the question would he.

[Puccini]

13 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Of coarse it's correct how ridiculous to not pay the tiny amount of CTPL.

Is the "CTPL" (Compulsory Third Party Liability insurance) which you mention the same as the "mandatory basic motor insurance" mentioned by Kalasin Jo?

 

If yes, in the case described by the OP,

1. who is the third party who would be covered by the CTPL?
2. would the CPTL cover the medical expense of the the OP's wife, who, as far as I understand it, is not a third party in that accident?

 

Edited June 11, 2021 by Puccini

[Liverpool Lou]

15 hours ago, itsari said:

I believe that in Thailand under the matrimonial property law the husband is liable for medical expenses incurred by his wife .

I believe that is 100% inaccurate.

[Liverpool Lou]

17 hours ago, jackdd said:

Afaik that's basically correct, but limited to the amount which the insurance would have covered.  With her being at fault the insurance would have paid 30k, so that should be the most she has to pay.

That seems to suggest that, in the case of very serious injuries requiring, say, lengthy Intensive Care treatment and surgery, the hospital cannot charge those with no insurance any more than B30k regardless of how large the bill actually is?   That does seem like a great bargain but does not seem to make a lot of sense.

 

So, as an example, an at-fault, uninsured road accident victim that incurs a B1,000,000 hospital bill only has to pay B30,000?   No insurance, nothing to pay over B30K?  Is that the case, really?

[Liverpool Lou]

53 minutes ago, Puccini said:

Is the "CTPL" (compulsory third party insurance) which you mention the same as the "mandatory basic motor insurance" mentioned by Kalasin Jo?

 

If yes, in the case described by the OP,

1. who is the third party who would be covered by the CTPL?
2. would the CPTL cover the medical expense of the the OP's wife, who, as far as I understand it, is not a third party in that accident?

 

1.  The 3rd party would be anyone who has an injury or damage claim apart from the driver/owner (1st party).

2.  No, it wouldn't cover her if the cover is TPO.

[Peterw42]

11 hours ago, Moonlover said:

Nonsense. It's standard procedure to buy one year's insurance along with a years road tax, running concurrently.

 

If his wife's motorcycle had the Por Lor Bor insurance, he wouldn't be asking the question would he.

If you have ever taken a bike or car that hasn't had a sticker for a couple of years, you will find they make you pay for the past years insurance/stickers.

Wife had a bike that didn't have a sticker for 3 years, when we eventually took it to get a sticker we had to pay for 3 years insurance/sticker, the por lor bor keeps running its just hasn't been paid for. It has to work that way, otherwise you get hit by an unregistered vehicle you have to pay, the whole system breaks down.

Edited June 12, 2021 by Peterw42

[jackdd]

9 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

That seems to suggest that, in the case of very serious injuries requiring, say, lengthy Intensive Care treatment and surgery, the hospital cannot charge those with no insurance any more than B30k regardless of how large the bill actually is?   That does seem like a great bargain but does not seem to make a lot of sense.

 

So, as an example, an at-fault, uninsured road accident victim that incurs a B1,000,000 hospital bill only has to pay B30,000?   No insurance, nothing to pay over B30K?  Is that the case, really?

As for as I know, if you are Thai, then yes. Because everything which the compulsory vehicle insurance doesn't pay is paid for by the "30 baht scheme" (or social insurance if they have it).

If you are a foreigner, then you do of course have to pay it by yourself if you don't have any additional insurance covering it.

 

47 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

If you have ever taken a bike or car that hasn't had a sticker for a couple of years, you will find they make you pay for the past years insurance/stickers.

Wife had a bike that didn't have a sticker for 3 years, when we eventually took it to get a sticker we had to pay for 3 years insurance/sticker, the por lor bor keeps running its just hasn't been paid for. It has to work that way, otherwise you get hit by an unregistered vehicle you have to pay, the whole system breaks down.

You are mistaken. You only paid for the outstanding tax, not for insurance.

If you stop paying for the compulsory insurance you are no longer covered, easy as that.

If somebody without compulsory insurance hits you, but you have compulsory insurance, then your compulsory insurance will pay for you, but they will try to recoup the costs from the person at fault.

Edited June 12, 2021 by jackdd

[KannikaP]

10 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

I believe that is 100% inaccurate.

And vice versa?    lol

[BritManToo]

17 minutes ago, jackdd said:

You are mistaken. You only paid for the outstanding tax, not for insurance.

Back tax plus due tax and the current insurance ......... without insurance they won't sell you the tax sticker.

 

You can negotiate with the hospital for the treatment, but only before the treatment.

An old Dutch guy I vaguely know (broke apart from his Dutch pension) fell off his scooter in his driveway breaking his hip.

My misses negotiated with the local government hospital to just accept payment from the government compulsory insurance (with police report), then had him shipped to Baanalisa care home for a month @25Kbht while in plaster.

Edited June 12, 2021 by BritManToo

[KannikaP]

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

If you have ever taken a bike or car that hasn't had a sticker for a couple of years, you will find they make you pay for the past years insurance/stickers.

Wife had a bike that didn't have a sticker for 3 years, when we eventually took it to get a sticker we had to pay for 3 years insurance/sticker, the por lor bor keeps running its just hasn't been paid for. It has to work that way, otherwise you get hit by an unregistered vehicle you have to pay, the whole system breaks down.

The tax sticker & insurance are completely separate things, but you cannot get the tax without insurance.

Did you EVER know an insurance policy, anywhere, which was valid without a premium being paid?

Yes, if you get hit by an uninsured person, either they pay or your insurance may do.

[itsari]

10 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

I believe that is 100% inaccurate.

Debts incurred for family purposes is the key. If a hospital bill is for family purposes i am not sure . I would of thought it is , but i don't know for sure .

Worth knowing 

[Kwasaki]

12 hours ago, Puccini said:

Is the "CTPL" (Compulsory Third Party Liability insurance) which you mention the same as the "mandatory basic motor insurance" mentioned by Kalasin Jo?

 

If yes, in the case described by the OP,

1. who is the third party who would be covered by the CTPL?
2. would the CPTL cover the medical expense of the the OP's wife, who, as far as I understand it, is not a third party in that accident?

 

There's two covers one if it's Your fault and one if it's Not Your fault look up Frank in Google CTPL and both lots of information you can read in English.

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, KannikaP said:

Yes, if you get hit by an uninsured person, either they pay or your insurance may do.

 

Actually in Thailand there is a government fund to pay the costs for people injured by an uninsured driver. 

 

Hospitals will try to avoid being paid by this fund (delays/paperwork and the payment is capped at a low level, just as it is under the compulsory insurance)  and rather try to bill the patient and many people, not knowing better, go ahead and pay.

 

Not relevant for the OP of course as there was no one else involved in the accident.

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

My misses negotiated with the local government hospital to just accept payment from the government compulsory insurance (with police report), then had him shipped to Baanalisa care home for a month @25Kbht while in plaster.

 

Actually by law they have to accept the compulsory insurance. but common for them to try to get more out of the patient.

[Sheryl]

13 hours ago, Puccini said:

Is the "CTPL" (Compulsory Third Party Liability insurance) which you mention the same as the "mandatory basic motor insurance" mentioned by Kalasin Jo?

 

If yes, in the case described by the OP,

1. who is the third party who would be covered by the CTPL?
2. would the CPTL cover the medical expense of the the OP's wife, who, as far as I understand it, is not a third party in that accident?

 

 

"CompulsoryThird Party Liability" is an inaccurate term and the Thai name for this does not mention third party. People wrongly assume compulsory vehicle insuranec in Thailand is same as in western countries, it is not.

 

Compulsory vehicle insurance in Thailand is not just 3rd party cover. It covers everyone involved , including the driver and including cases where no one else is involved.

 

However the level of cover  is higher if there was a third party involved who was at fault (though still low: capped at 80,000 baht vs 30,000 baht otherwise).

[Sheryl]

12 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

That seems to suggest that, in the case of very serious injuries requiring, say, lengthy Intensive Care treatment and surgery, the hospital cannot charge those with no insurance any more than B30k regardless of how large the bill actually is?   That does seem like a great bargain but does not seem to make a lot of sense.

 

So, as an example, an at-fault, uninsured road accident victim that incurs a B1,000,000 hospital bill only has to pay B30,000?   No insurance, nothing to pay over B30K?  Is that the case, really?

 

It is indeed the case (for government hospitals at least), but they will often try  to get more money out of the patient if they can.  In addition it is common in Thai hospitals, both private and government, for cashiers to attempt to get the patient to pay directly simply to save themselves and their bosses paperwork.

 

Government hospitals are paid less than actual costs for just about everything. The universal health scheme and SS schemes pay them a flat amount per each person they have registered (whether that person is hospitalized or not - it is a capitation system not a reimbursment system). And th4ese amounts are usually less than they actually end up spending.

 

Hence most government hospitals operate very much in the red.

[EricTh]

How did your wife get her road tax without basic insurance? Did you use an expired road tax? 

[Sheryl]

14 hours ago, Moonlover said:

 

 

If his wife's motorcycle had the Por Lor Bor insurance, he wouldn't be asking the question would he.

 

it is entirely possible she had the Por Lor Bor and hospital is trying to get them to pay instead, happens a lot. As the accident was nto someone els'es fault the maximum medical cover would be only 30,000 baht.

[Liverpool Lou]

3 hours ago, itsari said:

Debts incurred for family purposes is the key. If a hospital bill is for family purposes i am not sure . I would of thought it is , but i don't know for sure .

Worth knowing 

Yes, that is the key...and a more accurate claim.

[Liverpool Lou]

3 hours ago, KannikaP said:

13 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

I believe that is 100% inaccurate.

And vice versa?    lol

Turns out I'm right.

[itsari]

3 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Yes, that is the key...and a more accurate claim.

What is your claim for knowledge purposes? 

[itsari]

5 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Turns out I'm right.

That is debatable . I hope you are right to be honest .

[connda]

I going to state the obvious.  Why don't you have at least the minimum required by law to get a tax stamp for the motorcycle?   Which says the M/C isn't registered either.
Irresponsible maybe?