US Embassy - where are you when I need you?

Wuvu2 · June 22, 2021

The French are inoculating their citizens worldwide, including Thailand. This puts to rest the "impossible logistics" argument and the argument that Thailand wouldn't permit it because of "bad optics". Thailand's decision to allow embassies to contract out the vaccinations to local hospitals paved the way for any embassy to coordinate same.

Thailand is roughly 1% of the world population. If Thailand received 1% of the 80 million doses the USA will distribute in the next 8 days that would be 800k doses. There are only 30-40k Americans in Thailand - only part of those are seniors. It just wouldn't be a big deal to get this done for American citizens.

Etaoin Shrdlu · June 22, 2021

On 6/20/2021 at 9:38 AM, mackayae said:

Also, no appointment vacanies at the Embassy for June, July and August. Did not look any further.

I had an appointment this month at the US embassy for passport services. When I first tried to make the appointment in April, nothing was available for the remainder of April or May. June appointment slots had not yet been posted. Towards the end April the slots for June appeared and I booked an appointment. I just checked today and slots are available in July and August. You might wish to try again now before they all get taken.

ubonjoe · June 22, 2021

On 6/20/2021 at 9:38 AM, mackayae said:

Also, no appointment vacanies at the Embassy for June, July and August. Did not look any further.

What did you want the appointment for?

Just looked and there are appointments available for notary services and passports in late July and all of August.

To report a birth there are none.

Yellowtail · June 22, 2021

5 hours ago, Wuvu2 said:

The French are inoculating their citizens worldwide, including Thailand. This puts to rest the "impossible logistics" argument and the argument that Thailand wouldn't permit it because of "bad optics". Thailand's decision to allow embassies to contract out the vaccinations to local hospitals paved the way for any embassy to coordinate same.

Thailand is roughly 1% of the world population. If Thailand received 1% of the 80 million doses the USA will distribute in the next 8 days that would be 800k doses. There are only 30-40k Americans in Thailand - only part of those are seniors. It just wouldn't be a big deal to get this done for American citizens.

Probably getting them "free" from the US....

placnx · June 22, 2021

On 6/21/2021 at 2:54 PM, Thomas J said:

LOL,

Are you saying that the US government could produce a production facility in 6 months and exactly where would that be? First off if the production facility was in the USA you would face exactly the same situation as you do now. Vaccines being available but not in some regions of the globe. Taking Thailand as an example. If vaccines were produced in the USA and shipped to Thailand, do you really think they would make it to expatriates here? The vaccines would be confiscated, sold and the proceeds distributed.

If you are suggesting that the production facility be overseas such as Thailand, do you 1. really believe that you could get the Thai government to approve a foreign built production facility to be approved let alone built in Thailand. 2. That somehow if built here in Thailand that there would be adequate trained staff to produce the vaccine. and 3. Even in the remote possibility that the first two could be accomplished that the vaccine produced would not be diverted, and sold.

Whether Thailand, India, Cambodia, Tanzania and every other far flung country in the world do you then build production facilities there too? If not, and your suggestion is to build a new facility in the USA, how does any of that change the situation from what is currently true. Vaccines are available but there is no logistic support by the Thai government to procure them and distribute them. If you believe which I don't know if true or not is that the existing companies lack the production capacity to fill demand, a far better and faster solution would be to license the production to existing vaccine production facilities around the globe. While that may produce more than enough vaccine, it still does not solve how you transport the vaccine to Thailand, have adequate -72 degree Fahrenheit storage facilities and have those drugs transported to hospitals around the country who also have -72 degree Fahrenheit storage capabilities.

The biggest problem here is Thailand is not the lack of vaccines available, its the lack of procurement on the part of the government. They are just now getting around to ordering it.

Today there is news on BBC that WHO is doing an end run on the vaccine waiver, to have mRNA vaccines produced by two companies in South Africa, while an academic from Georgetown University was fantasizing about having vaccine factories popping up all over the place!

But that's not realistic. The most realistic (though improbable due to US government inertia) for cutting short this pandemic is to use the Defense Production Act to build facilities at "warp speed" in the US. Transport worldwide is not an issue. It would be nice if Europe could help out on this, but I'm not hopeful.

It would take at least 6 months to do this, but BBC was saying that the WHO gambit would take a year. I worry that vaccines produced by neophytes would further increase vaccine hesitancy.

I was thinking about having US capacity for 600mn doses per month, though it could be adjusted downward for existing US-based capacity of Pfizer and Moderna. That would make it a lot easier for Thailand to get mRNA vaccines for everybody. That could be boosters for those already jabbed with AZ or Sinovac.

BTW Your mentioning the -72 C storage requirement for Pfizer shows that your knowledge is way out of date.

Edited June 22, 2021 by placnx
more detail of concept

Thomas J · June 22, 2021

18 minutes ago, placnx said:

TW Your mentioning the -72 C storage requirement for Pfizer shows that your knowledge is way out of date.

Well this is as of May 21, 2021. It says it can be stored at warmer temperatures for two weeks. Now when you have lets say 1 million doses come into BKK do you really expect me to believe that they can be distributed throughout Thailand, put into hospitals, and be administered all within a two week period of time, not including the time it takes to fly to Thailand.

Your idea of building facilities is just plain nonsense. First off, who says there is a shortage of production capacity? Even if I buy the fact there is, there is no shortage of facilities that can have their production shifted to include Covid 19 vaccine and they already have staff trained to manufacture vaccines, along with the equipment to bottle them. It would be far easier, faster, more cost effective and more practical to license those facilities to produce the vaccine if capacity was an issue.

academic from Georgetown University was fantasizing about having vaccine factories popping up all over the place!

As to the Georgetown University academic Using the term fantasizing to describe vaccine factories popping up all over the place is very accurate. Pure fantasy.

Building the labs is the quick part and that will likely take numerous months if not years to procure the land, finish the construction, and procure the necessary equipment to gear up for production. Now the difficult part would be to have in locations "popping up" around the world lab technicians with the education and experience to produce vaccines.

Far faster, far more cost effective, to just license a company lets say the size of Merck, or Bayer to produce vaccines. That still does not stop the problem of ok now you have an unlimited supply of vaccine, it is shipped to Thailand for distribution. What gives you any confidence that the vaccine would actually make it for distribution rather than being subverted. Heck, the USA in one of its own territories, Puerto Rico sent relief supplies following the hurricane. Those were quickly confiscated and sold.

Edited June 22, 2021 by Thomas J

Yellowtail · June 22, 2021

10 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

Well this is as of May 21, 2021. It says it can be stored at warmer temperatures for two weeks. Now when you have lets say 1 million doses come into BKK do you really expect me to believe that they can be distributed throughout Thailand, put into hospitals, and be administered all within a two week period of time, not including the time it takes to fly to Thailand.

Your idea of building facilities is just plain nonsense. First off, who says there is a shortage of production capacity? Even if I buy the fact there is, there is no shortage of facilities that can have their production shifted to include Covid 19 vaccine and they already have staff trained to manufacture vaccines, along with the equipment to bottle them. It would be far easier, faster, more cost effective and more practical to license those facilities to produce the vaccine if capacity was an issue.

academic from Georgetown University was fantasizing about having vaccine factories popping up all over the place!

As to the Georgetown University academic Using the term fantasizing to describe vaccine factories popping up all over the place is very accurate. Pure fantasy.

Building the labs is the quick part and that will likely take numerous months if not years to procure the land, finish the construction, and procure the necessary equipment to gear up for production. Now the difficult part would be to have in locations "popping up" around the world lab technicians with the education and experience to produce vaccines.

Far faster, far more cost effective, to just license a company lets say the size of Merck, or Bayer to produce vaccines. That still does not stop the problem of ok now you have an unlimited supply of vaccine, it is shipped to Thailand for distribution. What gives you any confidence that the vaccine would actually make it for distribution rather than being subverted. Heck, the USA in one of its own territories, Puerto Rico sent relief supplies following the hurricane. Those were quickly confiscated and sold.

I agree building new facilities is stupid.

Why would ultra-cold freezer be needed, could it not just be packed in dry-ice?

Thomas J · June 22, 2021

6 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Why would ultra-cold freezer be needed, could it not just be packed in dry-ice?

I believe that dry ice is the way it is transported. I am not sure about the widespread availability of dry ice around Thailand and dry ice lasts only 18 - 24 hours even packed inside a cooler. That would mean it would have to be replaced not less often than once a day or more to keep it at the required temperature.

One way or another this idea that somehow the USA government can build or supply vaccine to every nook and cranny of the world is just wishful thinking. Right now if vaccines were readily available and shipped to Thailand I "think" you might as well put a sign on them "please steal" valuable product inside.

I know that if a supply of lets say Pfizer comes into BKK it will take some pretty adept logistics to distribute it throughout Thailand in a timely manner and for the facilities that receive it for them to be able to inoculate the people in a timely manner. As time goes on, the process will get smoother.

I think the only thing the US government or for that matter any countries government can do is to attempt to coordinate with the Thai authorities to have vaccines sent to private hospitals around Thailand that expatriates can go to to become vaccinated. How much of the vaccine actually makes it to the expatriates is a pure guess.

Yellowtail · June 22, 2021

1 minute ago, Thomas J said:

I believe that dry ice is the way it is transported. I am not sure about the widespread availability of dry ice around Thailand and dry ice lasts only 18 - 24 hours even packed inside a cooler. That would mean it would have to be replaced not less often than once a day or more to keep it at the required temperature.

One way or another this idea that somehow the USA government can build or supply vaccine to every nook and cranny of the world is just wishful thinking. Right now if vaccines were readily available and shipped to Thailand I "think" you might as well put a sign on them "please steal" valuable product inside.

I know that if a supply of lets say Pfizer comes into BKK it will take some pretty adept logistics to distribute it throughout Thailand in a timely manner and for the facilities that receive it for them to be able to inoculate the people in a timely manner. As time goes on, the process will get smoother.

I think the only thing the US government or for that matter any countries government can do is to attempt to coordinate with the Thai authorities to have vaccines sent to private hospitals around Thailand that expatriates can go to to become vaccinated. How much of the vaccine actually makes it to the expatriates is a pure guess.

Packed correctly, dry-ice lasts for several days. When you consider the cargo hold of an cargo plane is generally below freezing it could last longer. A lot of fresh high-value seafood is packed in dry-ice for transport.

If you order a cake from Swenson's it comes packed in dry-ice so it can't be too hard to come by in Thailand. It is pretty cheap and easy to make, most all the cost is energy.

I agree, any distribution should absolutely be coordinated with the Thai government.

Thomas J · June 22, 2021

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

Packed correctly, dry-ice lasts for several days.

You could be right. I just looked at the internet and it said 18 -24 hours. However that might mean for just a consumer grade Styrofoam cooler. i wouldn't think the plane ride would be a problem since the cargo hold is likely way below freezing during most of the flight. It would be once on the ground in Thailand that the shipment has to be unloaded, broken and then shipped. Again, likely they can use refrigerated trucks. The big item is the coordination between the various hospitals to receive the vaccine and within a very short window have the queue of patients signed up and assigned for their shots. I know both of my daughters in the USA have had Covid shots. My older daughter just went to the hospital towards the end of the time period when shots were being given and was given the vaccine without any appointment that came from people who failed to show up.

I suspect that it might actually be somewhat more challenging as time goes on and there is not this huge waiting list and demand. You can't administer it without it being thawed and once thawed it should be used within two weeks.

One way or another the idea that somehow the USA or any other nation can just dictate Covid vaccine distribution in a foreign country is not protocol. I see the French are supposedly offering vaccines in their embassy. I guess that is OK however if the only embassy for a particular country happens to be in Bangkok it hardly makes it convenient to have to travel from far away twice. And you sure would not want to travel there only to find the appointment was cancelled or the vaccine supply was not there.

sqwakvfr · June 22, 2021

Good for the French Government. The average French probably paid more in taxes(on a percentage basis) than the average American. I think any overseas Frenchman is probably owed a service like this by the government. I think the British should be next. As an American I seriously doubt anything will come from the Embassy.

Yellowtail · June 22, 2021

27 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

You could be right. I just looked at the internet and it said 18 -24 hours. However that might mean for just a consumer grade Styrofoam cooler. i wouldn't think the plane ride would be a problem since the cargo hold is likely way below freezing during most of the flight. It would be once on the ground in Thailand that the shipment has to be unloaded, broken and then shipped. Again, likely they can use refrigerated trucks. The big item is the coordination between the various hospitals to receive the vaccine and within a very short window have the queue of patients signed up and assigned for their shots. I know both of my daughters in the USA have had Covid shots. My older daughter just went to the hospital towards the end of the time period when shots were being given and was given the vaccine without any appointment that came from people who failed to show up.

I suspect that it might actually be somewhat more challenging as time goes on and there is not this huge waiting list and demand. You can't administer it without it being thawed and once thawed it should be used within two weeks.

One way or another the idea that somehow the USA or any other nation can just dictate Covid vaccine distribution in a foreign country is not protocol. I see the French are supposedly offering vaccines in their embassy. I guess that is OK however if the only embassy for a particular country happens to be in Bangkok it hardly makes it convenient to have to travel from far away twice. And you sure would not want to travel there only to find the appointment was cancelled or the vaccine supply was not there.

There are a lot of medications that require heavy refrigeration, not just this, so hospitals should be equipped. The medication would certainly thaw overnight without issue, but staging will be a big issue.

In the article it said the French Embassy was partnering with a number of private hospitals. I do not think they are planning to administer the vaccines at the embassy.

I think it safe to assume the French are working with the Thai government to make this work.

Thomas J · June 22, 2021

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

In the article it said the French Embassy was partnering with a number of private hospitals

Oh I actually did not read the article, only saw the headline. Strange that it would be phrased the French Embassy was providing Covid vaccinations. You would think that correctly it should read that France or the French government is providing vaccine to Thailand to inoculate its citizens. The way it reads it sounds as if the Embassy is the one. Sure they work through the French Embassy. Whatever, certainly you and I agree that other countries can not unilaterally dictate what they will do here in Thailand. The best approach is to somehow make vaccines available through Thai govt. distribution channels to get the vaccines to the hospitals around the country. Now comes the tricky part. There are citizens from many countries here. You certainly don't want to have to carry on logistic discussions with each and every one of them.

Maybe it will come in time that some organization like WHO, or the UN acts as an intermediary and coordinates distribution of vaccine around the world. Sounds logical but certainly provides the platform for fraud on a massive scale.

placnx · June 22, 2021

3 hours ago, Thomas J said:

Well this is as of May 21, 2021. It says it can be stored at warmer temperatures for two weeks. Now when you have lets say 1 million doses come into BKK do you really expect me to believe that they can be distributed throughout Thailand, put into hospitals, and be administered all within a two week period of time, not including the time it takes to fly to Thailand.

Your idea of building facilities is just plain nonsense. First off, who says there is a shortage of production capacity? Even if I buy the fact there is, there is no shortage of facilities that can have their production shifted to include Covid 19 vaccine and they already have staff trained to manufacture vaccines, along with the equipment to bottle them. It would be far easier, faster, more cost effective and more practical to license those facilities to produce the vaccine if capacity was an issue.

academic from Georgetown University was fantasizing about having vaccine factories popping up all over the place!

As to the Georgetown University academic Using the term fantasizing to describe vaccine factories popping up all over the place is very accurate. Pure fantasy.

Building the labs is the quick part and that will likely take numerous months if not years to procure the land, finish the construction, and procure the necessary equipment to gear up for production. Now the difficult part would be to have in locations "popping up" around the world lab technicians with the education and experience to produce vaccines.

Far faster, far more cost effective, to just license a company lets say the size of Merck, or Bayer to produce vaccines. That still does not stop the problem of ok now you have an unlimited supply of vaccine, it is shipped to Thailand for distribution. What gives you any confidence that the vaccine would actually make it for distribution rather than being subverted. Heck, the USA in one of its own territories, Puerto Rico sent relief supplies following the hurricane. Those were quickly confiscated and sold.

You did not check Moderna. They say "Moderna COVID‑19 Vaccine multiple-dose vials are stored frozen between -50º to -15ºC (-58º to 5ºF). Store in the original carton to protect from light. Do not store on dry ice or below -50ºC (-58ºF). The Moderna COVID‑19 Vaccine can be stored refrigerated between 2° to 8°C (36° to 46°F) for up to 30 days prior to first use. Do not refreeze once thawed."

https://www.modernatx.com/covid19vaccine-eua/providers/storage-handling

There have been many deals to use existing capacity, competitors working together, but the production of mRNA vaccines is not near enough to cover the world. As this pandemic continues mRNA and similarly advanced and flexible vaccines will displace AZ and J&J as boosters become necessary, so the question is which companies have the capacity and competence to make mRNA vaccines. That goes to my comment about WHO and the Georgetown guy imagining that they can "call the bluff" (as BBC said) of EU & UK who oppose vaccine waivers.

In the US planning permission and all that is not an obstacle. In developing countries such as India, there could be a problem from locals, though.

As for licensing, AZ licensed SII (Serum Institute of India) and Covax was foolishly depending on them to supply many countries with vaccine to cover health workers and vulnerable people (~20% of population), but SII could not get additional funding from Indian government, so they had not enough capacity to take care of India plus their Covax commitment.

As for the issue of diversion, I think that all vaccines should be distributed under a blockchain inventory system which could work in conjunction with national vaccine databases that would keep track of the doses and who in which clinic administered them.

Thomas J · June 22, 2021

20 minutes ago, placnx said:

As for the issue of diversion, I think that all vaccines should be distributed under a blockchain inventory system which could work in conjunction with national vaccine databases that would keep track of the doses and who in which clinic administered them.

My comment was regarding Pfizer which as stated requires very cold temperatures. I repeat that building additional facilities to make more vaccine is foolish. By the time they are built and staffed and production rolls out of them the existing facilities will have long since produced a sufficient amount of vaccine. You would end up with facilities that are now excess capacity.

The only way to ramp up quickly would be for companies such as Pfizer, or Moderna to license the manufacture or their product by other companies. You have giants such as Merck, Eli Lilly, Bayer, Glaxo Smithkline, Sanofi, Emergent BioSolutions, CSL, Inovio Pharmaceuticals, Bavarian Nordic, and Mitsubishi Tanabe. They already have facilities and personnel. They could in short notice shift a portion of their production to the vaccines or perhaps add additional shifts. Either way, the production would occur in weeks not months or years as it would take with new facilities and personnel.

No matter what you do, I would expect a large amount of graft. You have a commodity in the vaccine in high demand. Whether it is the local personnel who unload the shipments or the high ranking government officials who divert it. The fact remains that for those people residing outside of their home countries they should not expect their country to move heaven and earth to make it convenient for them to get vaccinated. I am from the USA and I have the ability to fly back there if I so choose. However I wont do that, and I don't expect any vaccine to come for me as an expatriate. I will patiently wait for the vaccines to become available in the private hospitals here in Thailand and pay my 4,000 baht and be done.

To expect the countries from around the world to somehow all coordinate with hundreds of other countries the shipment of vaccine to provide solely for their citizens is just not practical.

Fookhaht · June 23, 2021

And now comes the say-nothing-do-nothing email to all US citizens in Thailand.

Oh, I take that back. You can now report your dismal experiences to a dedicated email address. I am underwhelmed

EMAIL TEXT:

To My Fellow Americans in Thailand,

In the past few weeks, many of you have asked about the availability of vaccines in Thailand. I want you to know that I hear you and understand your concerns. I am providing you with an update on the actions our government is taking to ensure you have access to vaccines.

The Biden-Harris Administration has embarked on a global effort to address this pandemic by sharing 80 million vaccine doses worldwide by the end of June and 500 million more in the coming year. The first 25 million of these doses will soon be released, with seven million going to countries in Asia, including Thailand. We continue to advocate with the Royal Thai Government for fair access to vaccines by our citizens. We are heartened by Thai government commitments to vaccinate Americans and other foreign nationals who reside here, just as Thai and other nationals are receiving vaccinations with ease in the United States.

The U.S. diplomatic mission has not been spared by COVID-19, as several families in our community have endured tragedies from this terrible pandemic. Across the world, many countries are grappling with surges in COVID-19 cases and emerging variants among largely unvaccinated populations, requiring this crisis to be resolved on a global basis. Our government is therefore taking a methodical, equitable, and science-based approach to direct vaccine doses to the most seriously afflicted countries.

The U.S. Department of State is unable to provide vaccines to the millions of Americans who reside outside of the United States. For those who wish to return to the United States to be vaccinated, information on vaccine availability at the state level is available at www.vaccines.gov. Meanwhile, as Thailand pursues its vaccination program, I will continue to advocate for your equitable access, keeping in mind that many Thai citizens are also waiting for their own vaccines. I welcome your personal experiences with vaccination conditions in your area, and have set up a new email account ([email protected]) to receive your submissions. We continue to provide updated information on COVID-19 on our Embassy webpage at https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/covid-19-information/. We will work with the Thai government to ensure you are served in line with their goal to vaccinate all residents without regard to nationality.

The United States has made significant progress in fighting this pandemic, but I agree with you that the work is far from done. I am optimistic that vaccine availability in Thailand will increase as the fruits of American technology are made available to the world. Our own health agencies here in Thailand continue to work side-by-side with Thai colleagues to develop vaccines and therapeutics to defeat this pandemic over the long term.

I will remain in touch with you in the days and weeks ahead as the situation develops.

With best regards,

Michael Heath

Charge d’Affaires

Embassy of the United States of America

This letter can be found on our website: https://th.usembassy.gov/a-message-to-american-citizens-in-thailand-from-charge-daffaires-michael-heath/

Yellowtail · June 23, 2021

10 minutes ago, Fookhaht said:

The U.S. diplomatic mission has not been spared by COVID-19, as several families in our community have endured tragedies from this terrible pandemic.

Yes, I imagine they've been compelled to endure "working" from home and having their food delivered....

mtls2005 · June 23, 2021

Yeah. Recognize the brush-off when we see it.

https://th.usembassy.gov/a-message-to-american-citizens-in-thailand-from-charge-daffaires-michael-heath/

Love it when people who've been vaccinated, with Pfizer, tell the rest of us who wish to be vaccinated "...to return to the United States to be vaccinated...".

Thanks Charge.

sqwakvfr · June 23, 2021

In short the letter from the acting US Ambassador goes like this:

Blah, Blah, and Blah and here is the most important part:

For those who wish to return to the United States to be vaccinated, information on vaccine availability at the state level is available at www.vaccines.gov. Meanwhile, as Thailand pursues its vaccination program, I will continue to advocate for your equitable access, keeping in mind that many Thai citizens are also waiting for their own vaccines

"Suck it up or go back home" As they used to say in Army: "I copy you Lima Charlie(loud and clear).

I already know where I can get vaccinated in the US(plenty of youtube videos of Thai's getting vaccinated in NY and San Francisco). Also, "continue to advocate for equitable access". "Equitable"??? What does that mean? A complete waste of time except for one thing: Justify his existence. As they say in LOS, "no need your help".

Jingthing · June 23, 2021

Honestly, I would rather hear nothing from our embassy than that steaming crock of Yankee Doodle Doody.

Did they really think that would placate the vast majority of American expats here that have not been able to even register for a vaccine appointment in Thailand?

Do they think we're stupid?

Boiled down our embassy is telling us we're being thrown under the bus.

There is no other way to read it.

They are unable but France is able?

Nobody believes that.

They don't want to bother with it. They just don't care enough to expend the effort.

Regarding how some people will try to make this partisan I will say this. Biden is president now so its perfectly fair to blame Biden. However it's not credible to believe that the previous guy would have done differently.

Edited June 23, 2021 by Jingthing

Excel · June 23, 2021

Just now, Jingthing said:

Honestly, I would rather to hear nothing from our embassy that steaming crock of Yankee Doodle Doody.

Did they really think that would placate the vast majority of expats here that have not been able to even register for a vaccine appointment in Thailand?

Do they think we're stupid?

Boiled down our embassy is telling us we're being thrown under the bus.

There is no other way to read it.

They are unable but France is able?

Nobody believes that.

They don't want to bother with it. They just don't care enough to expend the effort.

Well of course it exemplifies that "special US/UK " strong relationship. Neither country cares much about their own citizens overseas but illegal immigrants on their own soil are well looked after.

Yellowtail · June 23, 2021

17 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Honestly, I would rather hear nothing from our embassy than that steaming crock of Yankee Doodle Doody.

Did they really think that would placate the vast majority of American expats here that have not been able to even register for a vaccine appointment in Thailand?

Do they think we're stupid?

Boiled down our embassy is telling us we're being thrown under the bus.

There is no other way to read it.

They are unable but France is able?

Nobody believes that.

They don't want to bother with it. They just don't care enough to expend the effort.

Regarding how some people will try to make this partisan I will say this. Biden is president now so its perfectly fair to blame Biden. However it's not credible to believe that the previous guy would have done differently.

The only difference were this happening under the previous administration would be the level of outrage.

I'm am not blaming the Biden administration, and I don't really care about getting the vaccine one way or another. I'll get it when it's available, and I won't worry about it until then.

Given the amount of time it takes for the government to process anything it would take years to get it going....

Heng · June 23, 2021

License it to Chinese and Indian pharmaceutical giants and let them ramp up (perhaps with some international cooperation instead of demonizing) and supply the world. No need to build anything. All you have to do is not care about turning a huge profit as opposed to a reasonable profit.

placnx · June 23, 2021

19 hours ago, Thomas J said:

My comment was regarding Pfizer which as stated requires very cold temperatures. I repeat that building additional facilities to make more vaccine is foolish. By the time they are built and staffed and production rolls out of them the existing facilities will have long since produced a sufficient amount of vaccine. You would end up with facilities that are now excess capacity.

The only way to ramp up quickly would be for companies such as Pfizer, or Moderna to license the manufacture or their product by other companies. You have giants such as Merck, Eli Lilly, Bayer, Glaxo Smithkline, Sanofi, Emergent BioSolutions, CSL, Inovio Pharmaceuticals, Bavarian Nordic, and Mitsubishi Tanabe. They already have facilities and personnel. They could in short notice shift a portion of their production to the vaccines or perhaps add additional shifts. Either way, the production would occur in weeks not months or years as it would take with new facilities and personnel.

No matter what you do, I would expect a large amount of graft. You have a commodity in the vaccine in high demand. Whether it is the local personnel who unload the shipments or the high ranking government officials who divert it. The fact remains that for those people residing outside of their home countries they should not expect their country to move heaven and earth to make it convenient for them to get vaccinated. I am from the USA and I have the ability to fly back there if I so choose. However I wont do that, and I don't expect any vaccine to come for me as an expatriate. I will patiently wait for the vaccines to become available in the private hospitals here in Thailand and pay my 4,000 baht and be done.

To expect the countries from around the world to somehow all coordinate with hundreds of other countries the shipment of vaccine to provide solely for their citizens is just not practical.

I did not say "solely for their citizens". There are various benefits to getting the world vaccinated soon:

1) curbing new variants, so protecting one's own;

2) saving world economies and many lives;

3) geopolitical message - democracy is a viable alternative to "national socialism with Chinese chauvinistics"

4) in the next phase or next pandemic, having in place the facilities to produce vaccine for the US population really quickly, then directing the output worldwide

You might google PEPVAR. It's a broader version of what the US should be doing.

You may not be aware of the deals that already exist between the companies you cite. I know of some. The point I am arguing against is not licensing with existing companies with the requisite knowhow. I doubt that remaining spare capacity is sufficient I oppose the WHO campaign of creation of facilities in developing countries to make their own vaccines. No way they could do this faster than the US (maybe even EU once the 28 agreed - if required).

I don't have time to explain here how the blockchain works and how it would interface with national vaccination databases. Anyway, it's a credible deterrent to diversion and substitution of vaccine doses.

placnx · June 23, 2021

4 hours ago, Fookhaht said:

And now comes the say-nothing-do-nothing email to all US citizens in Thailand.

Oh, I take that back. You can now report your dismal experiences to a dedicated email address. I am underwhelmed

EMAIL TEXT:

To My Fellow Americans in Thailand,

In the past few weeks, many of you have asked about the availability of vaccines in Thailand. I want you to know that I hear you and understand your concerns. I am providing you with an update on the actions our government is taking to ensure you have access to vaccines.

The Biden-Harris Administration has embarked on a global effort to address this pandemic by sharing 80 million vaccine doses worldwide by the end of June and 500 million more in the coming year. The first 25 million of these doses will soon be released, with seven million going to countries in Asia, including Thailand. We continue to advocate with the Royal Thai Government for fair access to vaccines by our citizens. We are heartened by Thai government commitments to vaccinate Americans and other foreign nationals who reside here, just as Thai and other nationals are receiving vaccinations with ease in the United States.

The U.S. diplomatic mission has not been spared by COVID-19, as several families in our community have endured tragedies from this terrible pandemic. Across the world, many countries are grappling with surges in COVID-19 cases and emerging variants among largely unvaccinated populations, requiring this crisis to be resolved on a global basis. Our government is therefore taking a methodical, equitable, and science-based approach to direct vaccine doses to the most seriously afflicted countries.

The U.S. Department of State is unable to provide vaccines to the millions of Americans who reside outside of the United States. For those who wish to return to the United States to be vaccinated, information on vaccine availability at the state level is available at www.vaccines.gov. Meanwhile, as Thailand pursues its vaccination program, I will continue to advocate for your equitable access, keeping in mind that many Thai citizens are also waiting for their own vaccines. I welcome your personal experiences with vaccination conditions in your area, and have set up a new email account ([email protected]) to receive your submissions. We continue to provide updated information on COVID-19 on our Embassy webpage at https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/covid-19-information/. We will work with the Thai government to ensure you are served in line with their goal to vaccinate all residents without regard to nationality.

The United States has made significant progress in fighting this pandemic, but I agree with you that the work is far from done. I am optimistic that vaccine availability in Thailand will increase as the fruits of American technology are made available to the world. Our own health agencies here in Thailand continue to work side-by-side with Thai colleagues to develop vaccines and therapeutics to defeat this pandemic over the long term.

I will remain in touch with you in the days and weeks ahead as the situation develops.

With best regards,

Michael Heath

Charge d’Affaires

Embassy of the United States of America

This letter can be found on our website: https://th.usembassy.gov/a-message-to-american-citizens-in-thailand-from-charge-daffaires-michael-heath/

An emanantion from the cocoon.

Yellowtail · June 23, 2021

4 minutes ago, placnx said:

I did not say "solely for their citizens". There are various benefits to getting the world vaccinated soon:

1) curbing new variants, so protecting one's own;

2) saving world economies and many lives;

3) geopolitical message - democracy is a viable alternative to "national socialism with Chinese chauvinistics"

4) in the next phase or next pandemic, having in place the facilities to produce vaccine for the US population really quickly, then directing the output worldwide

You might google PEPVAR. It's a broader version of what the US should be doing.

You may not be aware of the deals that already exist between the companies you cite. I know of some. The point I am arguing against is not licensing with existing companies with the requisite knowhow. I doubt that remaining spare capacity is sufficient I oppose the WHO campaign of creation of facilities in developing countries to make their own vaccines. No way they could do this faster than the US (maybe even EU once the 28 agreed - if required).

I don't have time to explain here how the blockchain works and how it would interface with national vaccination databases. Anyway, it's a credible deterrent to diversion and substitution of vaccine doses.

Did you mean PEPFAR?

placnx · June 23, 2021

1 hour ago, Heng said:

License it to Chinese and Indian pharmaceutical giants and let them ramp up (perhaps with some international cooperation instead of demonizing) and supply the world. No need to build anything. All you have to do is not care about turning a huge profit as opposed to a reasonable profit.

Last year the German partner of Pfizer, BioNTech, did a $50mn deal with Fosun Pharma. Something happened, as Taiwan was apparently told that they could only get Pfizer vaccine through Fosun. Is Fosun also producing the Pfizer vaccine?

Heng · June 23, 2021

2 minutes ago, placnx said:

Last year the German partner of Pfizer, BioNTech, did a $50mn deal with Fosun Pharma. Something happened, as Taiwan was apparently told that they could only get Pfizer vaccine through Fosun. Is Fosun also producing the Pfizer vaccine?

Hmm... yeah, just Googled it. That deal was awhile ago. I wonder how production is coming along.

placnx · June 23, 2021

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

Did you mean PEPFAR?

No. PEPFAR happened to fight AIDS. PEPVAR is a concept for now. It's to deal with Corona and upgrade public health in the developing world.

Yellowtail · June 23, 2021

5 minutes ago, placnx said:

No. PEPFAR happened to fight AIDS. PEPVAR is a concept for now. It's to deal with Corona and upgrade public health in the developing world.

Yeah, not much on it.

In any event, the plan would be to build facilities all over the world and staff them such that a new vaccine can be produced at a moment's notice? What do the staff do while waiting for the next pandemic?

It seems to me that production is not that much of an issue now, they seem to have excess capacity in some countries...

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