Doctors sound alarm over plan to reopen borders by October

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, Anton9 said:

Wow, we should live like this forever then

Not really but thats your choice to make ???? I would prefer to get the vaccinations rolling so everything can open up.

[scorecard]

9 hours ago, BobinBKK said:

I think the "fully vaccinated tourists" have more to be worried about than the local population... There is no "quality" vaccine being offered for free in Thailand. Locals stand a better chance going to Uncle Tu Pu's grandmothers hut and swinging a dead chicken around in the air.

Well wouldn't be the first time a relative of a Thai PM did ceremonial things with chickens, some members can probably remember when Gen. Chavalit was the PM his wife held occult ceremonies with dead chickens to ward off bad luck etc. 

[MrJ2U]

Astra zeneca is only 60% effective and Sinovac is 4% against the Delta (Indian) variant.  They need to change there vaccine strategy.

[MrJ2U]

57 minutes ago, Joinaman said:

 No, just put down as Covid deaths ,

but still plenty in hospitals with the flu and pneumonia, just nobody talks about them.

if you think that the covid measure has stopped the flu deaths, which occurs every year, looks like a lifetime of lockdowns, masks, etc

Have you seen whats happening in India?  There expecting that variant to be the main variant in Thailand in 3 months.  It's horrific what's happening there.

[Joinaman]

53 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Ah no proof then but you're also the one who can't believe it spreads in bars and clubs, says it all really ????

Proof of what, that the flu is around

perhaps you should get the facts from your local hospitals 

Sakon Nakhon has patients for months, though decreasing  over time 

don’t believe that the flu spreads in bars and clubs,? Yes I do, possibly even more than  Covid does

[Joinaman]

8 minutes ago, MrJ2U said:

Have you seen whats happening in India?  There expecting that variant to be the main variant in Thailand in 3 months.  It's horrific what's happening there.

Yup

just like the living conditions of lots of Indians

but per head of population ? 
1.3 billion ?

but this is Thailand, not India 

 

[Bkk Brian]

13 minutes ago, Joinaman said:

Proof of what, that the flu is around

perhaps you should get the facts from your local hospitals 

Sakon Nakhon has patients for months, though decreasing  over time 

don’t believe that the flu spreads in bars and clubs,? Yes I do, possibly even more than  Covid does

No proof they are classifying flu deaths as covid? Thats what you said. Where is the proof

[The Cipher]

2 hours ago, placnx said:

In the end "big data" results in triage at clinics & hospitals. If you are talking about macroeconomics, an article was published last January about the cost effectiveness of increasing supply of vaccines, and the cost benefits:

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/371/6534/1107

 

I don't dispute any of this. That was never my argument. I am pro-vaccine and want vaccines rolled out as fast as possible.

 

My point is that at some point it just became accepted that preventing deaths from Covid was the single most important imperative of humanity, and so many people act like that is the only possible way to approach Covid policy. But it isn't. We've taken a values judgment and treated it like an absolute necessity rather than had a genuine debate due to the uncomfortable nature of that debate for many.

[Dogmatix]

The country's leadership has never been very good but now looks positively deranged with utterly bizarre and conflicting announcements every day and public infighting.

[CG1 Blue]

3 hours ago, wensiensheng said:

It depends on your life style I think. Daily life for me is virtually unchanged except that I have to wear a mask outside. It was different when schools were closed, that made a big difference to my daughter and therefore the family.

 

but I usually travel at least 5/6 times a year and THAT is a big loss. Playing golf in China with my friends twice year, hiking with my son in Eastern Europe, touring Europe with my youngest daughter and my sister and her family….I miss it all a lot. But daily routine, hasn’t changed a jot.

Well looking at these things alone that are now gone for you: "Playing golf in China with my friends twice year, hiking with my son in Eastern Europe, touring Europe with my youngest daughter and my sister and her family" I'd say that is a huge life change. 

Daily routine may not have changed a jot, but for me personally, I live for the other more exciting things like those you mentioned.  

[phills2k1]

2 hours ago, Anton9 said:

Wow, we should live like this forever then

Nobody is saying that we should live like this forever because of the impact on the flu. All that's being said is that the measures being taken to protect against Covid are indirectly helping against the flu

 

It's almost impossible to not comprehend that point, but you managed to pull it off.  Kudos to you my guy

 

It's astounding reading this thread. We're 1 and a half years into this and there are STILL people who argue that it's no worse than the flu.  For people to be that obtuse or that incapable of admitting that they were wrong (or brainwashed) is truly remarkable

Edited June 17, 2021 by phills2k1

[Stargeezr]

The normal flu, used to spread because people would travel to the places that were flu hot spots, then spread it around. With out all the travel, and with people wearing masks and social distancing, the normal flu has not been spread like it usually is.  COVID is an air born virus, that spread further than it was assumed to. as the tiny mist can travel well beyond 2 meters.  It is not just the larger droplets of COVID that are spreading the virus.  Heard that on the news last night.  Get your shots and hope that it will protect you from the variants as well. Good luck all

Geezer

[DogNo1]

The discussion about tourism seems to ignore the growing environmental green movement towards CO2 reduction.  At some point, this will have an impact on the number of airplane flights permitted.  It would be interesting to know how much pollution one tourist's trip to Thailand produces.  If the Democrats and greenies remain in power, the polluting effect of tourism will eventually come under scrutiny.  .  It would be wise for Thailand to plan on much les income from tourism in the future.

 

So far as opening up the country, the solution is obvious. Vaccinate everyone.

[placeholder]

4 hours ago, Joinaman said:

 No, just put down as Covid deaths ,

but still plenty in hospitals with the flu and pneumonia, just nobody talks about them.

if you think that the covid measure has stopped the flu deaths, which occurs every year, looks like a lifetime of lockdowns, masks, etc

If you think that the measures taken to control covid haven't pretty much eliminated flu deaths. then you haven't been paying attention to the science.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6937a6.htm

 

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/weeklyarchives2020-2021/week08.htm

 

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm

[Joinaman]

2 hours ago, Stargrazer9889 said:

The normal flu, used to spread because people would travel to the places that were flu hot spots, then

spread it around. With out all the travel, and with people wearing masks and social distancing, the

normal flu has not been spread like it usually is.  COVID is an air born virus, that spread further than it

was assumed to. as the tiny mist can travel well beyond 2 meters.  It is not just the larger droplets of

COVID that are spreading the virus.  Heard that on the news last night.  Get your shots and hope that

it will protect you from the variants as well. Good luck all

Geezer

Thanks, but will the vaccine keep you safe from the flu virus too

what happens when they start to open up all areas?

unless you are going to keep wearing masks and stopping people moving around, then the flu will return as before surely. With the increase in deaths back to normal , which according to WHO is around 44,000 a year, far greater than Covid deaths 

 

[Joinaman]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

If you think that the measures taken to control covid haven't pretty much eliminated flu deaths. then you haven't been paying attention to the science.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6937a6.htm

 

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/weeklyarchives2020-2021/week08.htm

 

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm

  Nice pictures, and probably correct in the number of deaths, but still people being hospitalised due to the flu and pneumonia virus

so what happens to these flu deaths when people get the covid vaccinations, , you say the vaccines will stop the flu virus deaths too ?

 

[Tord55]

14 hours ago, The Cipher said:

 

Hm. I guess a piece of useful advice would be that while it is definitely a good idea to get vaccinated, there's no point worrying about it or letting it affect you on a day to day basis.

 

It's easy to forget that "my immune system will handle it" is a valid response for ~99% of people who even catch Covid. There's some degree of risk to living a worthwhile life. Always has been.

 

 

Say that to the relatives of 600,000 Americans that have died of COVID.

[nattaya09]

They're averaging about 500K full vaccinations a month since rollout in March. At that rate, they will have about 5 million fully vaccinated in 4 months. .  No probrem

[sezze]

Comparing flu vs covid was useless before , since the behavior of flu was very well know , and although it does kill quite a few people each year , there are vaccines for it ( doesn't work all the time ) , and hospitals aren't full of patients ( which is the real problem ) .

Now we are talking a different period , since vaccines are to the rescue . This is why we see lots of fast improvements in measures and hospital numbers and also positive cases in many countries , making it very manageable . Thailand hasn't come near it yet , and due to some variants around it is still time to take care . There will always be deaths and people in hospital from covid , this won't go away , like the flu , so now indeed very similar .

So , in order to the subject , only thing that needs to be done is vaccinating and doing it fast . I am still hoping to October to for coming to Thailand , but i am afraid they will still impose too much rules . They want to open but they don't know how to do it , the "sandbox" idea was a good plan in the beginning but the problem is that it really comes too fast for Thailand . They simply do not have enough vaccinated people themselves , and it isnt about the tourists but on the local population .

[jacko45k]

9 hours ago, Joinaman said:

Which one has more chances of killing you, or giving you long term problems ?

and yet people ignore this and worry about Covid ?

It is fortunate the precautions taken against Covid, will work for these too. 

[The Cipher]

5 hours ago, Tord55 said:

Say that to the relatives of 600,000 Americans that have died of COVID.

 

Yes it's unfortunate. And individually they are all tragedies. But collectively, 600,000 deaths /300,000,000 total pop = 0.002. Numbers need context. 5 deaths in a total population of 10 is a far worse tragedy than 3 million deaths in a population of 7 billion.

 

In a perfect world nobody would have to die of Covid (or anything). But we don't live in that world. Yes, Covid deaths can be reduced, but 'at what cost' ought to merit serious consideration, no?

 

The 'at any cost' policies that are popular with frightened electorates aren't necessarily the best ones for the situation.

[wensiensheng]

9 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

Well looking at these things alone that are now gone for you: "Playing golf in China with my friends twice year, hiking with my son in Eastern Europe, touring Europe with my youngest daughter and my sister and her family" I'd say that is a huge life change. 

Daily routine may not have changed a jot, but for me personally, I live for the other more exciting things like those you mentioned.  

You’ve missed the point haven’t you? 

 

You do need to read my post and the post to which I was responding, to have some understanding.

 

start with that and then we’ll go on.

[placeholder]

6 hours ago, Joinaman said:

  Nice pictures, and probably correct in the number of deaths, but still people being hospitalised due to the flu and pneumonia virus

so what happens to these flu deaths when people get the covid vaccinations, , you say the vaccines will stop the flu virus deaths too ?

 

What it says is that there is a vanishingly small number of people who are coming down with the flu.

I have no idea why you are bringing vaccinations into this. It has nothing to do with your original false claim.

[NoshowJones]

Doctors sound alarm over plan to reopen borders by October

Is it not more money in the pockets of these doctors if the country stays closed? Once it opens, they will lose all the money they get from their share of the testing from those in quarantine etc. 

[Joinaman]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

What it says is that there is a vanishingly small number of people who are coming down with the flu.

I have no idea why you are bringing vaccinations into this. It has nothing to do with your original false claim.

Is this " small number" based on this years figures, , the year we have had many lockdowns, travel restrictions, forced mask wearing, etc ?

Then i agree the figures will have reduced from previous years

But are you saying that this downward trend will continue after the restrictions are lifted ? 

Do you have any actual figures for this years reduction in flu and pneumonia hospitalizations ?   

Deaths by Covid virus since Jan 2020 ( 17 months ) = 1,525 ?

Deaths , on average from flu virus in 12 months, not 17 , = 44,549 ? 

 

[Joinaman]

6 hours ago, jacko45k said:

It is fortunate the precautions taken against Covid, will work for these too. 

yup, some of those precautions will work, but for how long ?

Do we continue to lockdown, restrict travel, wear face masks, social distance, etc, etc, for ever more ?

or do we eventually lift the restrictions and continue life as "normal" as possible, accepting that thousand will continue to die each year from the flu and now the covid virus 

[Joinaman]

8 hours ago, sezze said:

Comparing flu vs covid was useless before , since the behavior of flu was very well know , and although it does kill quite a few people each year , there are vaccines for it ( doesn't work all the time ) , and hospitals aren't full of patients ( which is the real problem ) .

Now we are talking a different period , since vaccines are to the rescue . This is why we see lots of fast improvements in measures and hospital numbers and also positive cases in many countries , making it very manageable . Thailand hasn't come near it yet , and due to some variants around it is still time to take care . There will always be deaths and people in hospital from covid , this won't go away , like the flu , so now indeed very similar .

So , in order to the subject , only thing that needs to be done is vaccinating and doing it fast . I am still hoping to October to for coming to Thailand , but i am afraid they will still impose too much rules . They want to open but they don't know how to do it , the "sandbox" idea was a good plan in the beginning but the problem is that it really comes too fast for Thailand . They simply do not have enough vaccinated people themselves , and it isnt about the tourists but on the local population .

Good post, but if we run scared of what is a small number of deaths in Thailand, from the Covid, and insist on vaccinations to severely reduce these numbers, why are they not putting the same tactics and resources into supplying a working vaccine and full vaccinations against the flu/pneumonia, which kills far more people in Thailand 

It seems that even without the vaccinations in Thailand , there have been very very few deaths , based on the population of 68 million. we keep seeing lots of words like " could, maybe, possibly likely " on what may happen without the vaccine but after 17 months, very very few of these have proved correct .

[jacko45k]

21 minutes ago, Joinaman said:

yup, some of those precautions will work, but for how long ?

Do we continue to lockdown, restrict travel, wear face masks, social distance, etc, etc, for ever more ?

or do we eventually lift the restrictions and continue life as "normal" as possible, accepting that thousand will continue to die each year from the flu and now the covid virus 

Welcome to the new normal.....

[DogNo1]

A Japanese newspaper reports that one-third of their people who have contracted COVID are still suffering symptoms six months later.  The world needs a huge amount of vaccines - yesterday!  Where are they?

[Sundew Giggleglow]

4 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Welcome to the new normal.....

Sundew doubts that a new normal is considered normal.  Sundew thinks it is abnormal. Does anyone agree with her?