U.S. embassy in Thailand rejects citizens' appeal for vaccines

[sqwakvfr]

Contacting a US Senator or member of Congress for an overseas expat creates as Donald Rumsfeld once said "a conodrum"?  Some of us do not have US addresses.  Which Senator or member of congress would advocate for such an American?  Based upon my experience the first thing a Senator or member Congress wants to know is "Do I represent this person?".  If the  answer is no or  not sure then you know what happens next: nothing.  

 

In my case I still have a California Drivers License and address but the two Senators in California have been and will always be useless(Dianne Feinstein is like 90 years old and Alex Padilla was recently appointed to replace Kamala Harris).  The member of congress who represents my district is too busy with important things like:  Defund the police, reparations for descents of slaves, dealing with "white rage"(the representative is of Taiwanese descent) and most importantly investigating Russian Collusion with the Trump Campaign(he is good friends with Adam Schiff).  So I will handle the vaccine issue on my own.  My choices will be the pharmacies at Costco, Ralphs, CVS, Walgreens, or Wal Mart.  All have either the Pffizer of Moderna vaccines.  I just have to make it back Los Angeles in the near future.  

Edited June 25, 2021 by sqwakvfr

[burlap]

On 6/23/2021 at 10:31 PM, Disparate Dan said:

Evidence for this? And where are you?

Like many others actually IN Thailand, I have a jab scheduled.

Whether I want it is not something the embassy would not get involved in.

Many people have said that they received or are scheduled to receive a shot.  How did you do this? I've done everything I can think of, I've registered at several private hospitals who say they probably won't have any shots until October.

 

I've Filled out the form at ThailandIntervac.com only to be delivered to a calendar that wouldn't let me make an appointment ALL dates were marked as 'full'.  For the last 4 days, the web site has not been working.

 

I filled the form at 

https://www.medparkhospital.com/en/page/covid19-vaccine-survey

and they said nothing available, they will email me if things change.

 

I'm 68 yrs old & have some health issues that make it impossible to return to America right now.  How can I ge a vaccination?

Thanks.

 

I

[WaveHunter]

26 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

Contacting a US Senator or member of Congress for an overseas expat creates as Donald Rumsfeld once said "a conodrum"?  Some of us do not have US addresses.  Which Senator or member of congress would advocate for such an American?  Based upon my experience the first thing a Senator or member Congress wants to know is "Do I represent this person?".  If the  answer is no or  not sure then you know what happens next: nothing.  

 

In my case I still have a California Drivers License and address but the two Senators in California have been and will always be useless(Dianne Feinstein is like 90 years old and Alex Padilla was recently appointed to replace Kamala Harris).  The member of congress who represents my district is too busy with important things like:  Defund the police, reparations for descents of slaves, dealing with "white rage"(the representative is of Taiwanese descent) and most importantly investigating Russian Collusion with the Trump Campaign(he is good friends with Adam Schiff).  So I will handle the vaccine issue on my own.  My choices will be the pharmacies at Costco, Ralphs, CVS, Walgreens, or Wal Mart.  All have either the Pffizer of Moderna vaccines.  I just have to make it back Los Angeles in the near future.  

Most US expats have (or should have) a "legal domicile" in the United States for obvious reasons like maintaining a US bank account. IRS, Medicare, voter registration, etc... .  It's very easy to set up a legal domicile as it does not requires having an actual physical address, since a legal domicile is a legal definition, not necessarily a physical address.

 

For the purposes of contacting your Senator or Representative if you do not have a legal domicile, I'm sure you have relatives or a friend whose address you can use.  I mean, I doubt that staff members who read a Senator's or Representative's emails are going to  seriously scrutinize your ID beyond seeing the address you provide is within their district.

Edited June 25, 2021 by WaveHunter

[Kwaibill]

1 hour ago, WaveHunter said:

I'm doing that myself and everyone else should too! You may not get an immediate reply, but those emails are actually read by staff members contrary to what most people might think, and if enough are received, actions are often taken.

 

If all we do is whine and complain on this forum instead of taking some action, we have only ourselves to blame for what we're going through. 

 

It's such a simple thing to make your voice heard to your own US Senator and Representative.  They all have websites with email contact pages.  It takes perhaps 5 minutes to fire off a message.  So....JUST DO IT ????

 

Fired one off to Senator Mark Kelly.

[WingFat]

22 hours ago, placeholder said:

Actually it's if they spend 30 days or less in the USA during a one year period  that  they are then allowed the deduction.

You are correct; I got my wording wrong. Having lived overseas for 9 years I kept close count on my days in the US and kept them under 30/year.

[WingFat]

1 hour ago, Kwaibill said:

Fired one off to Senator Mark Kelly.

Good luck with Kelly doing anything about it.

[placnx]

3 hours ago, John Drake said:

 

Thanks for that. Good to see. I just followed up on your information and got the list of the senators who want to help us. Need to remember who was for us and who was against us and who didn't care when election time comes. 

 https://www.murphy.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/murphy-moran-colleagues-urge-blinken-to-help-americans-living-abroad-get-vaccinated-against-covid-19

It could be useful to see estimates of how many US expats live in specific countries. Those who reside in the EU, UK should have no difficulty getting vaccinated, in fact many probably were already. Then there are Americans living in Mexico and Canada. It would be easy for them to return to the US for jabs. After deducting those from the supposed 9 million, where are the others and which countries are a priority? The senators should analyze the situation this way. After that State should be ordered to negotiate with host governments.

Edited June 25, 2021 by placnx
typo

[mikebike]

6 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Not far apart. The US is averaging 250-350 deaths a day, with a population of 340 million. And dropping. Thailand is averaging 30-50 a day, a day with 69 million people, and seemingly climbing. Not impressive by any standards. The failure here is stunning. 

Well that's one way of looking at it... another way would be total numbers since the outbreak began...

[mikebike]

555555... some people think the Senate actually works... has no one been following the news?

[mikebike]

I guess I'm in the minority in believing I can take care of myself without help from big brother in the USA or here...  I really do not understand why everyone is crying for mommy.

[placnx]

2 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

Most US expats have (or should have) a "legal domicile" in the United States for obvious reasons like maintaining a US bank account. IRS, Medicare, voter registration, etc... .  It's very easy to set up a legal domicile as it does not requires having an actual physical address, since a legal domicile is a legal definition, not necessarily a physical address.

 

For the purposes of contacting your Senator or Representative if you do not have a legal domicile, I'm sure you have relatives or a friend whose address you can use.  I mean, I doubt that staff members who read a Senator's or Representative's emails are going to  seriously scrutinize your ID beyond seeing the address you provide is within their district.

Ask yourself - last legal address where you resided in the US - what County & State. If you previously voted there, the feasibility for renewing your registration would depend on state rules, I guess. Some states are tightening the rules to prevent "fraud".

[WaveHunter]

4 minutes ago, placnx said:

It could be useful to see estimates of how many US expats live in specific countries. Those who reside in the EU, UK should have no difficulty getting vaccinated, in fact many probably were already. Then there are Americans living in Mexico and Canada. It would be easy for them to return to the US for jabs. After deducting those from the supposed 9 million, where are the others and which countries are a priority? The senators should analyze the situation this way. After that State should be ordered to negotiate with host governments.

WIth a US inventory estimated at 1 billion doses by the end of the year (according to Brookings Institute), there is enough vaccine for every expat around the world to be easily be vaccinated. 

 

For those foreign countries that will receive donated vaccines from the US (such as Thailand), there should (and hopefully will) be a stipulation that in order to receive that GIFT from the US, every single US expats living in that country receive vaccinations from those vaccines first. 

 

Expats in Thailand have been treated in a very shabby way to date with respect to the public rollout.  To not demand that they be vaccinated first would just invite more shabby behavior in the forms of further delaying the vaccination of expats which has been the standard to date.  There's just too much political mischief to simply trust that foreign countries will do the right thing.  They will need to be held accountable with the donated vaccines.

[WaveHunter]

10 minutes ago, placnx said:

Ask yourself - last legal address where you resided in the US - what County & State. If you previously voted there, the feasibility for renewing your registration would depend on state rules, I guess. Some states are tightening the rules to prevent "fraud".

DId you not even read what I wrote?  Do you not understand the meaning of the term "legal domicile"?  There is nothing fraudulent about electing to have a legal domiciles, even if you no longer own physical property in the US.  It is your right as a US citizen to declare one.  Google the term and learn the facts.

Edited June 25, 2021 by WaveHunter

[rabas]

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned but there is an advocacy group for US expats. It's called American Citizens Abroad ACA based in Washington DC.  There is some vaccine news there.

 

https://www.americansabroad.org/

 

 ACA’s vaccine advocacy pays off. Senator Murphy and Senator Moran urge their colleagues to co-sign a letter to Secretary Blinkin asking the U.S. to vaccinate Americans living and working overseas. LINK

 

There is also this:

 

As two ex-U.S. ambassadors say it's 'time for Americans abroad to be given their shots,' expats mull limited options

 

And I quote:

"That one of the two former ambassadors used to be based in Thailand is possibly not surprising, as the American expat/vaccine battle in that Asian country has made headlines around the world ..."

Edited June 25, 2021 by rabas

[WaveHunter]

7 minutes ago, rabas said:

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned but there is an advocacy group for US expats. It's called American Citizens Abroad ACA based in Washington DC.  There is some vaccine news there.

 

https://www.americansabroad.org/

 

 ACA’s vaccine advocacy pays off. Senator Murphy and Senator Moran urge their colleagues to co-sign a letter to Secretary Blinkin asking the U.S. to vaccinate Americans living and working overseas. LINK

 

There is also this:

 

As two ex-U.S. ambassadors say it's 'time for Americans abroad to be given their shots,' expats mull limited options

 

And I quote:

"That one of the two former ambassadors used to be based in Thailand is possibly not surprising, as the American expat/vaccine battle in that Asian country has made headlines around the world ..."

Yes, they are one of the organizations responsible for bringing this expat issue to the attention of some of the Senators and Representatives that are starting to take some action on our behalf, and it is movement that seems to be gaining momentum.  There are many other organizations and groups as well, and a few of them are even based here in Thailand.

 

After seeing the way expats are being ignored (or even discriminating against) in the public rollout here, I think this movement is our best bet at getting vaccinated in a timely way.  Otherwise, I think we're months or even more than a year away from actually being vaccinated.  With the growing dominance of the Delta and Delta+ variants that should worry us all.

 

We owe it to ourselves, not to mention the population as a whole, to support these movements and assure that ALL of us become vaccinated sooner rather than later.

Edited June 25, 2021 by WaveHunter

[soi3eddie]

10 hours ago, brianthainess said:

Just imagine Little Tu Tu jumping up and down, if Thais abroad were left to last, at the end of the line waiting for their jab. I imagine he'd get THEM all vaccinated, with loads of photo ops, even personally delivering them, his ego would explode. 

I don't beleive the general would really care about Thais overseas. I do agree that if there was a photo opportunity to show him as caring then he would jump at the chance.

 

[placnx]

14 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

DId you not even read what I wrote?  Do you not understand the meaning of the term "legal domicile"?  There is nothing fraudulent about electing to have a legal domiciles, even if you no longer own physical property in the US.  It is your right as a US citizen to declare one.  Google the term and learn the facts.

I don't think that your "legal domicile" is a valid approach. You don't need an address in the US to vote. If you are a known in the county where you last resided because you were previously registered there to vote, you can be an overseas voter. In Florida I was assigned to the courthouse precinct since I don't have a home there anymore. This should clear things up:

https://www.fvap.gov/info/laws/voting-residence

[spidermike007]

9 minutes ago, soi3eddie said:

I don't beleive the general would really care about Thais overseas. I do agree that if there was a photo opportunity to show him as caring then he would jump at the chance.

 

Correct. His level of indifference, his lack of regard for his people, and the degree to which he is completely out of touch with the common man, his woes and his issues, are just part of the reason he needs to be ousted asap. Tomorrow perhaps. 

[WaveHunter]

43 minutes ago, placnx said:

I don't think that your "legal domicile" is a valid approach. You don't need an address in the US to vote. If you are a known in the county where you last resided because you were previously registered there to vote, you can be an overseas voter. In Florida I was assigned to the courthouse precinct since I don't have a home there anymore. This should clear things up:

https://www.fvap.gov/info/laws/voting-residence

Look, there are plenty of reasons to establish a legal domicile if you no longer have a physical address in the US but want to maintain legal resident status. 

 

The linked information you provided only pertains to voter registration, and not to any other things that may require you to prove that you are a legal resident of the United States.

 

It is INDEED a valid and legal approach to solving many problems that would arise without it, particularly if you are an expat.  Again, why don't you just do a google search and learn something instead of doubting what I already know is true and more importantly, what is vital for many expats to be aware of.

Edited June 25, 2021 by WaveHunter

[Kwaibill]

1 hour ago, WingFat said:

Good luck with Kelly doing anything about it.

Republican?

Kelly has already signed the letter urging Blinken to rectify the situation.

[Tony125]

3 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

Contacting a US Senator or member of Congress for an overseas expat creates as Donald Rumsfeld once said "a conodrum"?  Some of us do not have US addresses.  Which Senator or member of congress would advocate for such an American?  Based upon my experience the first thing a Senator or member Congress wants to know is "Do I represent this person?".  If the  answer is no or  not sure then you know what happens next: nothing.  

 

In my case I still have a California Drivers License and address but the two Senators in California have been and will always be useless(Dianne Feinstein is like 90 years old and Alex Padilla was recently appointed to replace Kamala Harris).  The member of congress who represents my district is too busy with important things like:  Defund the police, reparations for descents of slaves, dealing with "white rage"(the representative is of Taiwanese descent) and most importantly investigating Russian Collusion with the Trump Campaign(he is good friends with Adam Schiff).  So I will handle the vaccine issue on my own.  My choices will be the pharmacies at Costco, Ralphs, CVS, Walgreens, or Wal Mart.  All have either the Pffizer of Moderna vaccines.  I just have to make it back Los Angeles in the near future.  

https://www.fvap.gov/info/laws/voting-residence

 

Below is taken from above link

Citizens Residing Outside the U.S.

What is a voting residence and why is it important?

You need a voting residence to vote by absentee ballot — even if you are only voting for federal offices. Your election office needs your exact voting residence address to determine which offices and candidates you are eligible to vote for — and to send you the appropriate ballot for your voting precinct.

Your voting residence is your address in the state in which you were last domiciled, immediately prior to leaving the United States.

This residence may remain valid even if:

• You no longer own property or have other ties to that state.
• Your intent to return to that state is uncertain.
• Your previous address is no longer a recognized residential address.

Voting in an election for federal offices often may not be used as the sole basis of determining residency for the purpose of imposing state and local taxes.

If you cannot remember the address where you last physically resided, check old tax records, passports, or family correspondence. Sometimes election offices can help identify your address if you were previously registered.

To claim a new legal residence or domicile, consult legal counsel as there may be other factors to consider, such as tax implications.

 

*** I have voted in every primary and regular state and federal election since I was able to vote. I have been to (visited) several Senators and Congressmen offices and utilised their services over the years.  One of my Senators and Congressmen know me and send me emails on what they are doing to help my state or asking for my support  or vote  and if I will ask my friends/ relatives back home if they will support their cause. They know I reside in Thailand as I informed them when I left but we keep in touch. 

[AquaThai]

Perhaps we should sue the American  government.   Its clear they vaccinated the Embassy,  but are failing to do what they are required by law to do. When there is a threat to its assets. in this case US expats., they are supposed by law leave no one behind.  Well they are vaccinated. 

Edited June 25, 2021 by AquaThai

[AquaThai]

2 hours ago, Tony125 said:

https://www.fvap.gov/info/laws/voting-residence

 

Below is taken from above link

Citizens Residing Outside the U.S.

What is a voting residence and why is it important?

You need a voting residence to vote by absentee ballot — even if you are only voting for federal offices. Your election office needs your exact voting residence address to determine which offices and candidates you are eligible to vote for — and to send you the appropriate ballot for your voting precinct.

Your voting residence is your address in the state in which you were last domiciled, immediately prior to leaving the United States.

This residence may remain valid even if:

• You no longer own property or have other ties to that state.
• Your intent to return to that state is uncertain.
• Your previous address is no longer a recognized residential address.

Voting in an election for federal offices often may not be used as the sole basis of determining residency for the purpose of imposing state and local taxes.

If you cannot remember the address where you last physically resided, check old tax records, passports, or family correspondence. Sometimes election offices can help identify your address if you were previously registered.

To claim a new legal residence or domicile, consult legal counsel as there may be other factors to consider, such as tax implications.

 

*** I have voted in every primary and regular state and federal election since I was able to vote. I have been to (visited) several Senators and Congressmen offices and utilised their services over the years.  One of my Senators and Congressmen know me and send me emails on what they are doing to help my state or asking for my support  or vote  and if I will ask my friends/ relatives back home if they will support their cause. They know I reside in Thailand as I informed them when I left but we keep in touch. 

I have legal residency in our home land.  Once again not vaccinating its citizens and vaccinating its Embassy by analogous relation is the same as and equating to taxation without representation.   I pay US taxes, and I vote.

[WingFat]

4 hours ago, Kwaibill said:

Republican?

Kelly has already signed the letter urging Blinken to rectify the situation.

Wow, bring out the champagne and a brass band...China Boy signed a LETTER. 

[mogandave]

On 6/24/2021 at 9:47 PM, eastlight said:

Americans always baulk at 'socialised medicine' anyway.

 

Europeans always baulk at having to pay their own way….

 

 

 

Edited June 25, 2021 by mogandave
sp

[mogandave]

10 hours ago, Emdog said:

I earn nothing in Thailand. My income from is from SS and pension, based in USA. It really doesn't matter where the income comes from, here or there. What matters is I pay taxes at same rate as if I were living in the USA. I pay US taxes which help pay for vaccines. I should get benefit of shots ahead of donating to other countries and "hoping" they will give shots to everyone regardless of nationality or status, just as the USA is doing. Many are I am sure, but Thailand is not. We are lower than fleas on a soi dog

 

So is it is also your position that the 47% of Americans that do not pay federal income tax should be in line for their vaccinations after you?

[Simons3]

A shame, the vaccination centers in the US are empty (See Picture) walk ins welcome. I was in an out in 20 minutes and the longest part of that was walking from the parking lot. If anyone is real worried can't they grab a flight home There's even a free walk up Vaccination Center inside Los Angeles International Airport and probably others (https://spectrumnews1.com/ca/la-west/transportation/2021/06/03/walk-up-covid-19-vaccination-clinic-opens-at-lax  )so you could get your first jab straight off the plane, go visit friends & family for a couple of weeks then grab another Jab on the way out and fly to Phuket. Make a stress free holiday out of it All it would cost you is tickets and hotels ????

[jerrymahoney]

This is a link to a copy of the actualletter sent to Secretary Blinken US Senator signatures:

 

https://www.murphy.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/6.24.2021 Vaccinating AMCITs Letter FINAL.pdf

[oslooskar]

On 6/24/2021 at 6:52 AM, AquaThai said:

No its over your head the email clearly  said they are donating 50 million  around the world by the end of June.  It clearly said you will get vaccinated with the local nationals, which is not happening.  China a communist country  is Vaccinating  its people and supplying  does ti do so wven if its the Synovac.  The French are doing the same.  So they are puttting their citizens first.  The US clearly  is not.   The US is giving the vaccine to other countries to win the global campaign, and crossing their fingers that these countries will be fair and include US citizens in the que when they vaccinate.   Countries are already showing and proving that they are not equally vaccinating foreigners with their own local nationals.   Alrrady there was a que for foreigners  to sign up two days ago for the Moderna vaccine in October at a cost of 2000thb.  I clearly would have been willing to sign up and pay, if  One they had advertised and informed expats.  But in less than one hour they closed it down and said they could take no more.  Now it is advertised in the media that someone  must answer and explain why there were so few signed up, and why there were so few allocated for foreigners.   So dont put your false hope that the US can do anything other than ask that the citizens be given an equal opportunity to get the vaccine, when it clearly already isnt happening.  Its not that hard to send additional  vaccines to the Embassy and vaccinate its US citizens.   Send some army doctors along with the vaccine  to administer.   The email clearly says that US citizens  abroad are on their own and will not be given the same opportunity as its citizens  at home.  Clearly the same as taxation  without representation. If they can give away vaccines,  and other countries can vaccinate  their citizens  at their Embassy,  then whats the problem with the US?  If you think that you will be given the same opportunity to get tge vaccine here, well I will pray for you, because you arent high on the list.  The US government should prioritize  getting its citizens vaccinated  abroad just as the opportunity is given at home.  I paid my taxes, I served my country honorably,  and should be given the same opportunity at the vaccine  and not be left up to the country that was given the donations to vaccinate.  And so should all my other fellow expats.

Great! I agree! So, why are you telling me this????

[AquaThai]

8 hours ago, mogandave said:

 

So is it is also your position that the 47% of Americans that do not pay federal income tax should be in line for their vaccinations after you?

Pensioners and retirees once paid taxes,  so to say they are not tax payers is inaccurate.   Once a member always a member.  They deserve  the same representation  as a person who currently  pays tas, as one day the current  tax payer will also be a retiree.   Just because  someone  retires doesnt mean they arent a tax payer.  Your logic is flawed.