U.S. embassy in Thailand rejects citizens' appeal for vaccines

[Emdog]

On 6/25/2021 at 11:52 PM, mogandave said:

 

So is it is also your position that the 47% of Americans that do not pay federal income tax should be in line for their vaccinations after you?

Biden and Trump both said "Vaccine for all Americans". Was it you who was saying 99% of Americans here "sure bet" don't pay taxes? That is why I mentioned taxes. Duh. You really seem to have a hard time making good points.... how you got to "47% of Americans that do not pay federal income tax should be in line for their vaccinations after you?" does not follow from anything I have written. Wake up and smell the coffee

[Amused]

On 6/23/2021 at 2:07 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

Imagine every country in this world would supply vaccines to all their citizens which are in other countries in this world. That would be a lot of vaccines flying around the globe. And for what? Most (all?) countries work on the vaccination of all the people in their individual countries. It just takes some time.

 

As far as I see there is no foreigner in Thailand who didn't voluntarily come to Thailand, maybe except from prisoners. Many foreigners are in Thailand because they enjoy that Thailand is different from home. But then some complain that x and y and z is not like home. Make up your mind! What do you want? Thailand with all the good and all the bad? Or only those parts of Thailand which you like and otherwise your home country should take care of you. Really? 

An individual cannot choose their place of birth.

 

Individuals are forceto conform, give life and limb, pay taxes and so on, the usual modern day slavary forced upon the masses, to simply stay alive to the very country they were born within, so a citizen should, and without hesitation, receive assistance from the very country they were born within regarless of their location.

[OneMoreFarang]

5 minutes ago, Amused said:

An individual cannot choose their place of birth.

 

Individuals are forceto conform, give life and limb, pay taxes and so on, the usual modern day slavary forced upon the masses, to simply stay alive to the very country they were born within, so a citizen should, and without hesitation, receive assistance from the very country they were born within regarless of their location.

I think for some people it's better if they stay in their home country for all their life. It makes life easier for everybody.

[kurtmartens]

Well.  I really didn't mean to stir up this fire today.  But seems I did!  My only point with reposting was I've had enough of my own government giving out the vaccine to other countries instead of taking care of its own citizens.  And the fact that President Biden is sending 3 million doses to a corrupt government that we've been spending billions on over the past 20 years was just the icing on the cake this morning.  

 

Those 3 million doses are 1/3 of what is needed for the entire US global expat community.  And likely even less considering US expats living in the UK, EU, Oz, etc all can receive the vaccine locally.  Hell, even my friends in Laos have been vaccinated already!  And yet the US expat community in Thailand ... nothing.  And yes, we all choose to live here.  That's fine.  No one is arguing that.  But, when France (France!!!) has arranged with the Thai gov't to provide vaccines for it's citizens (elderly or not) and then the US ambassador sends out a letter stating it would be an impossible task for the embassy to arrange (my words not his) its a bit much to swallow.  

 

Expats from every country should expect their mother country to look out for them, just because they are living abroad doesn't mean they have given up their rights and citizenships.  And for those of us paying taxes, its a special kind of slap in the face.

 

Ah well.  Tomorrow this will be forgotten and a new topic will be batted around.  

[jayboy]

7 minutes ago, The Hammer2021 said:

  The few Brits that work there come from the same class  as Boris Johnson.

 

As a point of detail that's not true. For at least two decades the Foreign Office has tried to reflect more closely the actual composition of British society resulting in a much more diverse workforce in terms of ethnicity and social class.Few would disagree this was a mistake. Nevertheless it has made the FCO decidedly less posh with most of its top staff decidedly not in Johnson's class (upper middle). The rank and file never were.

 

There is still a dominance of Oxbridge in fast stream graduate entrants but even this is declining.The Foreign Office and the Treasury once got the pick of top graduates but that too is changing given much greater salaries elsewhere.

 

Oddly enough many foreigners rather liked working with the traditional FCO officer class - public school/Oxbridge types with charm and easy manners.But the world has moved on.

[frantick]

1 hour ago, kurtmartens said:

Ah well.  Tomorrow this will be forgotten and a new topic will be batted around. 

We could only hope.

 

But reading the last 3 pages, it's 99% 3 posters whining the same point. I'm guessing it'll continue on for a few more.

 

I pay US taxes. Some tax benefits only apply to those in residence; as they state for covid jabs. US citizens make higher average earnings than most countries. Use some of those US dollars to fly "home" to get your jabs.

 

Alternatively, relinquish your citizenship so you won't have to pay those useless taxes anymore. You could probably convert to Islam and immigrate to France to get your government-provided Thailand covid jab.

[kurtmartens]

8 minutes ago, frantick said:

We could only hope.

 

But reading the last 3 pages, it's 99% 3 posters whining the same point. I'm guessing it'll continue on for a few more.

 

I pay US taxes. Some tax benefits only apply to those in residence; as they state for covid jabs. US citizens make higher average earnings than most countries. Use some of those US dollars to fly "home" to get your jabs.

 

Alternatively, relinquish your citizenship so you won't have to pay those useless taxes anymore. You could probably convert to Islam and immigrate to France to get your government-provided Thailand covid jab.

The part about France and converting made me chuckle.  They have their hands full with their immigrants ... makes our debates look like nothing!  Sadly if I give up paying I give up working.  Enjoy your night.  I promise no more posting!  

[AquaThai]

23 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

That's pretty amusing... you, having a conversation...with YOURSELF LOL!  I'm glad that the two of you were able to agree with each other.  I can't imagine what it would have been like if you and the other you had disagreed, and then the two of you had ended up getting into a nasty argument with each other.  Now that would really have been entertaining!

 

No offense intended, just having a little fun with you, since I'm not entirely sure if you realized you were responding to your own post ????

 

 

Probably not.  No not offended.  It is funny.  I'm laughing  myself.  

[Scott]

Troll post reported and removed.

 

[jacko45k]

14 hours ago, dukeandduke said:

If it happens, it will have something to do with the shame the U.S. is feeling for its inaction while France and China act, and nothing to do with my email.

Politicians do not feel shame like the rest of us....

[dukeandduke]

4 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Politicians do not feel shame like the rest of us....

Countries and diplomats do. At some point, they want to save face.

[Surelynot]

4 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Politicians do not feel shame like the rest of us....

Never was a truer word spoken......they are a breed apart.

[WaveHunter]

14 hours ago, AquaThai said:

Probably not.  No not offended.  It is funny.  I'm laughing  myself.  

Glad we can all have a sense of humor over this expat registration fiasco, otherwise I think we could very easily just lose our sanity!

[WaveHunter]

20 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

As the Senators' letter alludes, there are varying circumstances in the many foreign countries where American expats live and varying levels of access to local vaccines...

 

I thought these two charts would be informative... The first is a chart showing how Thailand is lagging behind even most of its fellow ASEAN countries in its tiny rate of having fully vaccinated its own population (less than 4% at this point). And most ASEAN countries already are lagging the rest of the world.

 

 

And then by comparison, the fully vaccinated rates at various other countries where I'd imagine there are sizable U.S. expat populations. The comparison is striking and alarming:

 

 

The lowest rate among all of those other U.S. expat destination countries is Japan at just under 10% fully vaccinated, which is almost THREE TIMES the share fully vaccinated in Thailand. And Thailand's fully vaccinated rate is just about one-third of the 10.4% world average at this point.

 

The sizable U.S. expat populations in Thailand, Vietnam and the Philippines (with the latter two countries appearing even worse off) clearly are living in countries where they're going to need outside help if they have any hope of getting substantially vaccinated any time soon.

 

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

 

Well put...and graphs like that are a great way to REALLY put things into perspective.

[John Drake]

The only things the US Embassy can do is tell us what it cannot or will not do:

 

Stopped providing social security services

 

Stopped providing income letters for visa extensions

 

Refuses to help citizens with Covid vaccines.

 

So why exactly is this one of the biggest US embassies in the world? Why not just scrap their entire ACS division? They don't do anything but try to figure out ways to take more days off.

 

 

[placnx]

On 6/26/2021 at 8:05 PM, sqwakvfr said:

Placnx, I have doubts because I can just see the Career Diplomat types having discussion after discussion about where to send vaccines first?  A priority list of where to send vaccines so Americans can be vaccinated could take some time for the State Department to establish.  I worked as a contractor for State some years ago and making important decisions in a timely manner is not one of their strong traits.  The best way for this program to get going would be to let the Defense Department  handle it.  But this will not have happen because DOS and DOD do not get along and they have a long history of "turf wars".  Just look at how Iraq and Afghanistan turned out?  I have worked in both(Iraq as a DOD contractor and Astan as a DOS contractor) there were always conflicting priorities.  

I totally agree. I was disappointed that the 24 senators sent a letter to Tony Blinkin' rather than the White House. Wouldn't the epidemiologists do a better job of handling this? When all is figured out, Blinkin' should be given detailed orders as to which embassies will take action, and what action. Maybe it would be better to work though foreign embassies in Washington since the White House could engage directly.

[placnx]

On 6/26/2021 at 8:09 PM, Jingthing said:

I don't really agree. It was actually part of Biden's America is Back tour of Europe to try to convince allies that the US is finished  with isolationism.

Well, he should have asked them about their feeling on the vaccine waiver before blabbing his mouth off. America is back to a new sort of dysfunctionality? 

[placnx]

On 6/27/2021 at 12:19 PM, kurtmartens said:

Working in development I am routinely amazed by what I see, but for once I was left a bit speechless this morning while reading the news from Washington, DC.  President Biden was announcing the latest aid package to prop up the failing administration in Kabul - soon to be toppled by the Taliban (a different topic).  It included the usual and expected BS - $226 million is USAID, $3.3 billion in additional defense aid and then I read ... 3 million doses of J&J vaccine?!  Normally I wouldn't care, but just this week I got that ridiculous letter from the Embassy telling us how they can't provide vaccines to expats because of the logistical nightmare (my words, not theirs) etc, etc - which is also complete BS as any 3rd rate project manager could plan it out - but now we are sending 3 million doses to Afghanistan in the middle of withdrawing our troops and walking away after 20 years.

 

I worked there for 9+ years and managed operations there as part of my region for 15 years in total.  There is no way on God's green Earth that the Afghan Ministry of Health is going to be able to manage to vaccinate 3 million people in an orderly fashion - I wouldn't be surprised if most of the vaccine is either sold on the blackmarket or ends up being useless due to improper storage. 

 

And yet, the US Government can't take care of its expat community, because of "logistical" issues.  I doubt it, but I hope someone from State is reading this who can answer why we are sending 3 million doses to Afghanistan and can't help American expats at all.  Sending 3 million doses to a failed country that our administration is in the middle of abandoning ... so much for America taking care of its own.

As an entity, State should be judged incapacitated and its brief on this issue (and many others) be handled by other departments concerned with public health matters.

[kurtmartens]

21 minutes ago, placnx said:

As an entity, State should be judged incapacitated and its brief on this issue (and many others) be handled by other departments concerned with public health matters.

Depending who you ask, they will tell you that USAID is a separate agency from State.  And technically that is true as they are not under the authority of the State Department and were just given a seat on the NSC.   But .... the USAID Administrator isn't a Cabinet level official and the Sec of State is, so you tell me.

[kurtmartens]

52 minutes ago, John Drake said:

The only things the US Embassy can do is tell us what it cannot or will not do:

 

Stopped providing social security services

 

Stopped providing income letters for visa extensions

 

Refuses to help citizens with Covid vaccines.

 

So why exactly is this one of the biggest US embassies in the world? Why not just scrap their entire ACS division? They don't do anything but try to figure out ways to take more days off.

 

 

Issuing passports and whatever else is on that list that can earn revenue.  Thats about it.  (Although in their defense, the ACS in Chiangmai does always provide service with a smile!)

[placnx]

On 6/27/2021 at 12:42 PM, jerrymahoney said:

You will note the letter quoted in part above mentions how to handle vaccinating 9 million private citizen Americans overseas not just those in Thailand.

If they suggested concentrating on those countries where Americans are really in need, that could be somewhat less overwhelming.

[John Drake]

Just now, kurtmartens said:

Issuing passports and whatever else is on that list that can earn revenue.  Thats about it.  (Although in their defense, the ACS in Chiangmai does always provide service with a smile!)

 

As those were all services done in the past (including the vaccination for hepatitis, some time ago), it simply demonstrates how they are curtailing services while making it more and more difficult to even get an appointment. Since they stopped the income letters, I've been there just once, to renew my passport. I did try and go through them to get some help in the matter of the death here in Thailand of a former AAM/CIA officer. But they were useless for it.

[kurtmartens]

1 minute ago, placnx said:

If they suggested concentrating on those countries where Americans are really in need, that could be somewhat less overwhelming.

It still wouldn't be overwhelming.  But, lets assume it might be.  They can skip the UK and EU and Oz.  And start with Thailand and South America.  ????

[kurtmartens]

2 minutes ago, John Drake said:

 

As those were all services done in the past (including the vaccination for hepatitis, some time ago), it simply demonstrates how they are curtailing services while making it more and more difficult to even get an appointment. Since they stopped the income letters, I've been there just once, to renew my passport. I did try and go through them to get some help in the matter of the death here in Thailand of a former AAM/CIA officer. But they were useless for it.

Yeah the appointment thing annoys me.  I am old enough to remember you used to be able to just walk in to your own embassy and get service.  And that is IMO how it really should be still.  Curtail some of the services, ok.  But, at least let us walk in .... 

[placnx]

23 hours ago, kurtmartens said:

That is just being ignorant.  Mr. Heath is a career diplomat NOT a political appointee he wouldn't have written that letter without sending it up the food chain to Washington.  He didn't get to his level by making mistakes. 

 

And whoever is tweeting this, is doing expats no favor by sending out a poorly written tweet frankly.  Although the sentiment is correct.  And he should check his tax facts before he start putting things in writing - international waters has nothing to do with what he is referring to in this case that is a reference for pilots and seafarers not for expats flying to/from the US - and there are some expats (myself depending on certain contracts) that actually pay full US taxes while overseas (if I am being paid directly by the US Govt) and unless he is paying Thai income tax he isn't being double taxed.  Just looks foolish sending out that tweet.  

 

Plus the Embassy isn't making the policy.  The policy is coming out of Washington, don't blame the messenger ... but, certainly ask the messenger for a real explanation.  Which is what I want.  And I don't want some BS, "We are helping the people of Afghanistan" answer.  I want a real answer.  Even though I know the real answer.  (LOL)  

The only way to get action is to publicly shame Biden.

[placnx]

28 minutes ago, kurtmartens said:

Depending who you ask, they will tell you that USAID is a separate agency from State.  And technically that is true as they are not under the authority of the State Department and were just given a seat on the NSC.   But .... the USAID Administrator isn't a Cabinet level official and the Sec of State is, so you tell me.

I didn't want to make my Afghan story part of the general discussion. I was not suggesting that USAID play any role in our (or the Afghan) vaccine problem. When I was there (1970) it seemed like the Embassy people were more engaged with the local population than USAID. In fact consul's wife got Hepatitis A just like four other people I knew. 

[WaveHunter]

2 hours ago, placnx said:

I totally agree. I was disappointed that the 24 senators sent a letter to Tony Blinkin' rather than the White House. Wouldn't the epidemiologists do a better job of handling this? When all is figured out, Blinkin' should be given detailed orders as to which embassies will take action, and what action. Maybe it would be better to work though foreign embassies in Washington since the White House could engage directly.

I agree with that.  Blinken does not seem to be the type of guy that would go out on a limb and buck the trend AT ALL, or do what's right, rather than what's politically correct...but I guess that's the definition of most politicians these days ????

 

[kurtmartens]

29 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

I agree with that.  Blinken does not seem to be the type of guy that would go out on a limb and buck the trend AT ALL, or do what's right, rather than what's politically correct...but I guess that's the definition of most politicians these days ????

 

How do you think you get your politically appointed job?!  Say what you will about the current Ambassador here, at least he is a career diplomat.  

[oslooskar]

On 6/26/2021 at 1:28 AM, Jingthing said:

Anyway the US expats that are being denied jabs abroad and or blatantly discriminated against as in Thailand would represent well under 1 percent of donated doses.

So in effect by the US denying us this help during a historic pandemic we're being thrown under the songthaew by BOTH governments!

In all fairness to the Thais, whom I love dearly, I was able to register for my Covid-19 vaccination sometime around the seventh of this month and received my first jab of AstraZeneca today, the 28th of June, at the Phyathai2 hospital in Bangkok at 2:30 P.M.  Also, please be advised that there were numerous other farangs besides myself being vaccinated there. My next jab with be on September 20th. Also, I commend the hospital staff there, they did a great job. However, as far as I'm concerned, Uncle Sam has been criminally negligent.

 

[Jingthing]

18 minutes ago, oslooskar said:

In all fairness to the Thais, whom I love dearly, I was able to register for my Covid-19 vaccination sometime around the seventh of this month and received my first jab of AstraZeneca today, the 28th of June, at the Phyathai2 hospital in Bangkok at 2:30 P.M.  Also, please be advised that there were numerous other farangs besides myself being vaccinated there. My next jab with be on September 20th. Also, I commend the hospital staff there, they did a great job. However, as far as I'm concerned, Uncle Sam has been criminally negligent.

 

I assume you made that booking on thailandintervac.com.

 

A site that has been:

 

Non functional for weeks 

 

Never had any vaccine sites outside Bangkok when it was functional 

 

Had a serious data breach 

 

No official announcements about when it might be restored and or actually cover Thailand instead of only Bangkok.