Mixing Covid 19 vaccines - Pfizer, Moderna, Astra Zeneca - Is there a preferred combination?

[Thomas J]

I have recently read that both Spain and the U.K. have shown good results in developing better resistance by using a combination of vaccines instead of two shots of the same vaccine.  The studies appear to show that a first dose of Astra Zeneca followed by a second jab of Pfizer particularly boosted the immune response.

I have not seen much on other combinations such as Astra Zeneca and Moderna or any of the vaccines combined with the J&J vaccine.  
Has anyone seen information on which combinations are considered the best and in which order you are suppose to take the jabs.  The one study said that taking Astra Zeneca first followed by Pfizer produced a better result than reversing the order. 

Also are some vaccines not recommended for women?   I see articles on not recommended for under 50 but there doesn't seem to be any differentiation its risks between men and women. 

[rupert the bear]

very interesting,i will try to get az in the next few weeks but its difficult here in bkk,im 60 so in the age bracket.its just such a minefield and i cant see my way thru it.i was at samativej 2 days ago and the dr there said go to a hospital and sign up.ive signed up there but they say oct for moderna,i want to leave in 2 mnths so get az now and then pfizer when i get to europe,nothings simple here its so overly complicated and mis leading.

[bradiston]

Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, who has, amongst other qualifications, a doctorate in quantum chemistry, opted for Moderna as her 2nd shot after her 1st, AstraZaneca.

 

YMMV!

[Thomas J]

8 minutes ago, bradiston said:

Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, who has, amongst other qualifications, a doctorate in quantum chemistry,

Well while I have read that like Angela Merkel they say a regimen of Astra Zeneca first followed by Moderna or Pfizer is the best combination, I would not use Angela Merkel as the basis for making that choice.  Based on my observation of the oversight of Germany, I would seriously question any decisions she professed to be the best course of action in any regard. 

[bradiston]

33 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

Well while I have read that like Angela Merkel they say a regimen of Astra Zeneca first followed by Moderna or Pfizer is the best combination, I would not use Angela Merkel as the basis for making that choice.  Based on my observation of the oversight of Germany, I would seriously question any decisions she professed to be the best course of action in any regard. 

Well, nuts to you. She's a class act!

[Thomas J]

3 minutes ago, bradiston said:

Well, nuts to you. She's a class act!

Each to his own, let me know that when Germany switches over to Sharia law because of her great "empathy"  I believe she and other like her have done their countries a huge betrayal and sewn the seeds for their own cultural suicide. 

Edited July 1, 2021 by Thomas J

[Eaglekott]

There is no clinical studies for mixing vaccine, so if you go to Phuket with a mix they will not let you in.

 

It was in the news this morning on Thai TV, People was declined entry at Phuket International Airport.

Edited July 1, 2021 by Eaglekott

[mrfill]

17 minutes ago, Eaglekott said:

There is no clinical studies for mixing vaccine, so if you go to Phuket with a mix they will not let you in.

 

It was in the news this morning on Thai TV, People was declined entry at Phuket International Airport.

No clinical trials? Really?

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57636356

[Thomas J]

1 minute ago, mrfill said:

No clinical trials? Really?

Yes that was my reaction also.  Canada I know has approved mixing vaccines and both Spain and the U.K. reported clinical trials that evidenced very good results. 

[bradiston]

1 hour ago, Thomas J said:

Each to his own, let me know that when Germany switches over to Sharia law because of her great "empathy"  I believe she and other like her have done their countries a huge betrayal and sewn the seeds for their own cultural suicide. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Thomas J said:

Each to his own, let me know that when Germany switches over to Sharia law because of her great "empathy"  I believe she and other like her have done their countries a huge betrayal and sewn the seeds for their own cultural suicide. 

You asked for info. If you want to dismiss the only example I have seen reported, with totally spurious and off topic comments, I won't bother in future. Maybe you don't like her, but she's got the guts to back her own informed scientific research. But maybe quinine followed by a shot of household cleaner would be more to your liking, as recommended by the ex-Fool on the Hill, dumbcluck Trump?

Edited July 1, 2021 by bradiston

[connda]

Yeah.  The combination that has been submitted to double-blind, placebo studies for 5 years, published in peer reviewed medical journals, and authorized by the US FDA.  ????

[rabas]

2 hours ago, bradiston said:

Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, who has, amongst other qualifications, a doctorate in quantum chemistry, opted for Moderna as her 2nd shot after her 1st, AstraZaneca.

 

YMMV!

 

As a quantum chemist, she may be hoping the vaccine will work and not work at the same time.

 

Come to think of it, such thinking may be prevalent among politicians. Thai officials seem to think they can have a pandemic and not at the same time.

 

Edited July 1, 2021 by rabas

[Thomas J]

33 minutes ago, bradiston said:

ou asked for info

Well I appreciate the effort. In terms of her qualification on vaccines, I don't know but I sure felt she was the worst along with many other Western Country leaders in leading them down a path of cultural elimination. 

In terms of Trump you might dislike him however Operation Warp Speed which "he" initiated is the reason why you or anyone else got the vaccines as quick as they came.  As for hydroxychloroquine, they are still studying that today.  Perhaps it is worthless but others still find the drug beneficial particularly as a preventative.  The bleach comment was radicalized.  Yes bleach kills virus's and he said perhaps there was something like a bleach ( not actual bleach) that the medical community could come up with. 

For those that hated Trump he was damned if he did and damned if he didn't.  He blocked flights from China and was called racist and  Xenophopic.  Nancy Pelosi was videotaped with a contingent of Chinese in San Francisco's China Town encouraging travel at exactly the same time.  Trump was pilloried for his actions, the media silent on hers. 

 

Edited July 1, 2021 by Thomas J

[MikeN]

There is a bit about mixing vaccines on the ABC news website today : https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-01/coronavirus-vaccine-mixing-covid-pfizer-astrazeneca/100257330

[bradiston]

19 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

Well I appreciate the effort. In terms of her qualification on vaccines, I don't know but I sure felt she was the worst along with many other Western Country leaders in leading them down a path of cultural elimination. 

In terms of Trump you might dislike him however Operation Warp Speed which "he" initiated is the reason why you or anyone else got the vaccines as quick as they came.  As for hydroxychloroquine, they are still studying that today.  Perhaps it is worthless but others still find the drug beneficial particularly as a preventative.  The bleach comment was radicalized.  Yes bleach kills virus's and he said perhaps there was something like a bleach ( not actual bleach) that the medical community could come up with. 

For those that hated Trump he was damned if he did and damned if he didn't.  He blocked flights from China and was called racist and  Xenophopic.  Nancy Pelosi was videotaped with a contingent of Chinese in San Francisco's China Town encouraging travel at exactly the same time.  Trump was pilloried for his actions, the media silent on hers. 

 

Ok, final comment. I've figured out why the republican party hates China and the CCP so vehemently. They're envious! A one party state! To hell with this stupid game of democracy. One country, one party. Trump's next slogan. So, maybe stick to one vaccine. Might avoid a lot of arguments!

[Thomas J]

2 minutes ago, bradiston said:

Ok, final comment. I've figured out why the republican party hates China and the CCP so vehemently. They're envious! A one party state! To hell with this stupid game of democracy. One country, one party. Trump's next slogan. So, maybe stick to one vaccine. Might avoid a lot of arguments!

OK one final comment.  I don't think the Republicans or Trump hate China.  However, China has taken advantage of the world and the USA in particular with one sided trade deals.  They have successfully penetrated the U.S. market but keep their market shut.  Japan does much the same thing with ridiculous import regulations that make import of competing cars very difficult. 

 One example, Amway is the largest seller of cosmetics in China.  However in order to be permitted to distribute, they required that Amway manufacture the cosmetics in China.   What that effectively does is it exports unemployment to the USA and imports jobs.  That is actually very smart policy but to be fair both sides should put on reciprocal barriers then.  The US likewise should say, sure we will buy your products but put your factories making them in the USA.  Actually the USA did that successfully some years ago with Japan and cars.  With Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Subaru, all having plants in the USA.  Personally, I have great admiration for the Chinese.  They are smart and industrious.  Also unlike the USA the leaders can do what they determine best for China without regards to the political winds.  That could lead to an authoritarian government but based on results, the Chinese are winning and I have no doubt will soon become the largest economy in the world. 

[BusyB]

3 hours ago, bradiston said:

Well, nuts to you. She's a class act!

 

Absolutely ...

 

[BusyB]

1 hour ago, Thomas J said:

Well I appreciate the effort. In terms of her qualification on vaccines, I don't know but I sure felt she was the worst along with many other Western Country leaders in leading them down a path of cultural elimination. 

In terms of Trump you might dislike him however Operation Warp Speed which "he" initiated is the reason why you or anyone else got the vaccines as quick as they came.  As for hydroxychloroquine, they are still studying that today.  Perhaps it is worthless but others still find the drug beneficial particularly as a preventative.  The bleach comment was radicalized.  Yes bleach kills virus's and he said perhaps there was something like a bleach ( not actual bleach) that the medical community could come up with. 

For those that hated Trump he was damned if he did and damned if he didn't.  He blocked flights from China and was called racist and  Xenophopic.  Nancy Pelosi was videotaped with a contingent of Chinese in San Francisco's China Town encouraging travel at exactly the same time.  Trump was pilloried for his actions, the media silent on hers. 

 

 

Trump wasn't only called a racist for banning Chinese flights. And that's my last comment on this.

[Boedog]

Shouldn't make much difference its all experimental anyway you signed up to be a lab rat in there human trails 

[unblocktheplanet]

Unlikely to be available here. I intend to get both shots of AZ, then hope research has progressed to find a booster which amps up protection.

[rabas]

15 minutes ago, unblocktheplanet said:

Unlikely to be available here. I intend to get both shots of AZ, then hope research has progressed to find a booster which amps up protection.

 

I've had the 1st AZ shot. Now I wonder if it's best to get the 2nd, or go directly for Moderna, if available.

 

The issue is timing.  Oxford discovered during trials that AZ needs much longer gaps to generate high immunity, because the 1st dose interferes with the 2nd.   The normal AZ delay is ~12 weeks. Immunity will be somewhat less at 8 weeks. New research from Oxford said gaps up to 45 weeks! gave best results. See HERE

 

"Leaving a gap of as long as 10 months between the first and second doses increased level of protective antibodies, says Oxford University research."

 

Since the problem is your immune system remembers the 1st AZ shot, a long delay should not be needed before getting other vaccines. So what I'm thinking to do is:

 

     AZ (12 weeks) Moderna (1 month) Moderna. 

   or: AZ (12 weeks) Moderna (1 month) Moderna. (1 month) AZ.

 

The first 12 weeks is because Moderna will come after October 1.

[mrfill]

"Mixing Covid 19 vaccines"...

 

Should I have a Pfizer Manhatten or a Sinovac Sling?

[Thomas J]

1 hour ago, BusyB said:

Trump wasn't only called a racist for banning Chinese flights. And that's my last comment on this.

 

• Biden used the phrase “xenophobic” in reply to a Trump tweet about limiting entry to travelers from China and in which Trump described the coronavirus as the “Chinese virus.” Biden did not spell out which part of Trump’s tweet was xenophobic.

Biden's comments came immediately after the Trump travel ban on entrants from China and were in direct response to a tweet Trump make about limiting entry by the Chinese.  While Biden did not directly say the travel ban was a xenophobic action he made the comment immediately following the travel ban, and immediately after Trumps tweet.  So common sense tells you he was at the very least insinuating the travel ban was a xenophobic act. 

Now xenophobic if one parses words is not technically racist, however  this is its definition.  a dislike of or prejudice against people from other countries.

xen·o·pho·bi·a

/ˌzenəˈfōbēə,ˌzēnəˈfōbēə/

There is precious little difference between a prejudice against someone because of their country of origin and disliking someone because of their race.

One way or another Trump was criticized for taking an action that limited entry from those entering from China and he was soundly criticized for doing so. 

By contrast here is a clip from Nancy Pelosi in Chinatown.  You heard no outcry of putting the country at risk over this.  A clear double standard.  If Trump had made the same statement to ignore the coronavirus, precautions had been taken and to please come, he would have been nailed to the cross. 

 

 

[Thomas J]

1 hour ago, rabas said:

I've had the 1st AZ shot. Now I wonder if it's best to get the 2nd, or go directly for Moderna, if available.

Well from a safety standpoint you are probably better protected with the second dose being Pfizer or Moderna.  Tests in Spain and the UK show that the Astra Zeneca shot followed by one of the mRNA vaccines gives a very high covid protection response.  Now the downside is that you probably would need the second dose of either another round of either Pfizer or Moderna or Astra Zeneca so that you were "fully considered fully vaccinated" by some countries.  Thailand specifically says both doses must be of the same vaccine or the traveler is not considered fully vaccinated.  If you don't travel outside of the country, no big deal.  If you do, then as said, you probably will have to get a third jab. 

[Lorry]

1 hour ago, rabas said:

   AZ (12 weeks) Moderna (1 month) Moderna. 

   or: AZ (12 weeks) Moderna (1 month) Moderna. (1 month) AZ.

Are you saying 3 or even 4 jabs?

That's overdoing it. 

 

I know of someone who had 2 jabs AZ and than 1 Moderna (in Switzerland, where AZ is not approved). No side effects.

The Swiss even wanted to give him a 2nd Moderna (they consider AZ as nothing at all). Fortunately,  his friend is a doctor and intervened. 

Medical common sense requires 6 months between 2nd and 3rd shot, whatever it is. Obviously, there are no studies.

 

Wait 12 weeks, starting at your 1st jab, until you are scheduled for 2nd AZ. If you then can get Moderna, take Moderna instead of AZ. If it's a couple of weeks later it's no problem. But I wouldn't wait more than 16 weeks after the first jab.

You would be betting on just one study. 12 weeks after AZ, antibodies start to decline. 

 

Unfortunately,  chances of getting Moderna not later than October are slim. 

 

Edited July 1, 2021 by Lorry

[Letseng]

11 hours ago, bradiston said:

Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, who has, amongst other qualifications, a doctorate in quantum chemistry, opted for Moderna as her 2nd shot after her 1st, AstraZaneca.

 

YMMV!

It's quantum physics. She didn't opt for Moderna. It was available. German recommendation is AZ + mRNA as 2nd jab. There is no choice in Germany. You get what is available at the time.

[Letseng]

8 hours ago, rabas said:

 

As a quantum chemist, she may be hoping the vaccine will work and not work at the same time.

 

Come to think of it, such thinking may be prevalent among politicians. Thai officials seem to think they can have a pandemic and not at the same time.

 

Not sure what quantum physics (not chemistry) has got to do with a vaccine?

[bradiston]

1 hour ago, Letseng said:

It's quantum physics. She didn't opt for Moderna. It was available. German recommendation is AZ + mRNA as 2nd jab. There is no choice in Germany. You get what is available at the time.

Wikipedia has it as quantum chemistry. Er, Moderna was available, as presumably was AstraZaneca, and she opted to take it. So here we have a living, breathing, high profile example of a mixed vaccine recipient, which is all this thread was initially about. But the OP has hijacked the whole thing.

[Eaglekott]

16 hours ago, mrfill said:

No clinical trials? Really?

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57636356

Yes, That is a study, not a clinical trial.

[rabas]

6 hours ago, Letseng said:

Not sure what quantum physics (not chemistry) has got to do with a vaccine?

 

Her degree is in quantum chemistry.  If you mean quantum chemistry should be called quantum physics, both are equally valid fields.