Exercise is everything

[Sparktrader]

Walk to 7/11 and back. Buy almonds and beans.

 

Secret to long life!

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, BigStar said:

There are a LOT of factors to consider, you see. Oversimplification doesn't help you have a point of much relevance. Perhaps a visit with a medical professional is in order.

I see you are now making personal insults. You may have a point to your ramblings, but insulting people isn't going to convince anyone of it.

Edited July 27, 2021 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

23 hours ago, BigStar said:

In your case, your posts are always just about yourself, but then you don't like it when the response is also about you as well. Don't post about yourself, if you possibly can, and you won't get those.

To remind you of forum rules

 

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

 

You will observe that it does not ban me talking about myself, but it certainly does govern what you can say about me or other posters.

[robblok]

12 hours ago, Sparktrader said:

25 mins a day exercise is all you need. After that law of diminishing returns applies.

 

 

People who hit the 150-minute recommendation were 28% less likely to die early. What’s more, that number was 35% for those who exercised beyond this guidance (42Trusted Source).

 

From your own article. I would not call 7% extra for a bit extra time diminishing returns. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

6 minutes ago, robblok said:

 

 

People who hit the 150-minute recommendation were 28% less likely to die early. What’s more, that number was 35% for those who exercised beyond this guidance (42Trusted Source).

 

From your own article. I would not call 7% extra for a bit extra time diminishing returns. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

While I do not doubt your post, I can't get past the saying about "why would we want to live longer in a rest home?".

I know quite a bit about rest homes and the less time I have to be in one the better for me. If that means dying at 75 instead of 85, so be it.

[BigStar]

17 hours ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

Didn't say exercise is the only factor. You are looking for things to fault so you come across as a big star.   

Didn't say you did. But you only addressed exercise in your post. Yet the fitness or lack thereof of sedentary workers is, in fact, affected by more than just exercise (including type, duration, times) but diet as well. As a group, they aren't remarkable for having healthy diets.

 

I don't see your difficulty with my observing that relevant point? My benevolent intention, actually, was merely to help you, as it seemed you have an issue: That concerns me because I am such a person, despite exercising,  particularly in lockdown. So if you have an issue, you might let me know how that you know that you do and we can work from there. If not, then you're golden, eh?

 

There are quite a few studies that contradict the imaginative (happy?) assertion that I had addressed. I merely cited the most recent. However, anyone's invited to cite a contradictory study with evidence that people exercise in gyms (including women) because they don't have active jobs. ???? That would demonstrate actual knowledge.

 

Funny, I commonly read posts on fitness forums from guys in active jobs looking for exercise routines. Their main problem cited is lack of time or feeling tired after work.

 

> a reasonable inference is that such a job has benefits as compared to a sedentary job that has a gym trip after work.

 

Obviously. But that's actually a point other than one being made and I addressed.????An active job isn't a substitute for the kind of strength training a gym can provide on a consistent basis, period. Nor is stuff like occasionally shoveling dirt or cutting bushes. 

 

Edited July 27, 2021 by BigStar

[BigStar]

17 hours ago, robblok said:

I think you know Tropo a lot less then you think. I actually met the guy and had a lot of mail contact with him in the past. He trained a lot like I did and did a lot of rowing on his concept 2. Also had a Ski Erg and later a Cybex trainer.

There must be overlap of course, but unlike yourself @tropo emphasizes lighter weights specifically for protecting joints esp in older people (which you deny) and also the importance of intensity (which you normally ignore) and uses super slow. He emphasizes rest more. Moreover, he doesn't go for high protein diets.

 

So in general a much more intelligent approach to exercise better suited for our overweight, out of shape older members. However, I'd take the same principles and further optimize them. 

 

He's very big on rowing, of course, but like yourself doesn't row particularly efficiently.

 

For examples of some statements,

 

There are ways to increase muscle size without the need to go heavy. The muscles don't know how much you're lifting - only your ego knows that. It's easy to make light weights feel heavy and the muscles will not know the difference and grow.

 

My main point is - why lift heavy if you can develop a better physique and get better muscular conditioning from lifting lighter. Heavy weights place a huge toll on your joints, ligaments and tendons and comes with a high degree of inherent risk.

 

. . . why lift heavy if you can develop a better physique and get better muscular conditioning from lifting lighter

 

And he's against severe calorie restriction:

 

This is one of the reasons why severe calorie restriction never works in the long run - it just can't be maintained.

 

When I say the same thing, however, you feel obligated to disagree.????

 

 

[BigStar]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I see you are now making personal insults. You may have a point to your ramblings, but insulting people isn't going to convince anyone of it.

Walk the Walk, man. Here you are:

 

Only someone not interested in women as sexual partners would write such a silly post, IN MY OPINION.

 

He also thinks that us old guys should be happy to have a relationship with women that look like granny

 

It's obvious to me what he was trying to say . . .  any man associating with a young woman is only trying to have it off with them- no other motivation is acceptable to those with minds in the gutter.

 

Minds in the gutter? What a low blow from such a source who's announced he only wants to make "rumpty."

 

Again: your posts are about yourself, and if you put yourself out there for discussion, then it's totally legit to observe some contradictions and illogic that may mislead members actually looking for info about advantages of a healthy lifestyle. Those are difficult to discuss since they're yours, and about you, without reference to you. Make sense now?

 

Correction: I'm not trying anyone of anything, as said a few posts ago. I'm mainly here to have some laughs. However, if someone actually wants some help, I'm happy to try. Probably PM would be the better vehicle, given all the trolls here. The purpose of the thread is, after all, to promote Diet and Exercise Avoidance.

 

It's totally different in threads on real fitness and diet forums, where people are wanting the exact info that posters here find all kinds of silly, ignorant reasons to reject and sneer at. Pleasure reading and posting there. But of course the members there are typically much younger, not old, fat, self-satisfied retirees and mongers. 

 

We're still waiting for your testimonials from healthy fit people about how miserable they are and how they hate what they're doing, to support your claim. 

 

Edited July 27, 2021 by BigStar

[cooked]

On 7/26/2021 at 10:27 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

I assume you mean exercise for the sake of exercise because people don't do much physical activity anymore, so rather than go and do some physical work, they pay a gym to run, and lift weights etc all of which people in active jobs do routinely.

We live in a lazy world now, and we don't even have to wind our car windows up and down, or manually adjust the car seat. Most westerners probably don't even have a garden any more, and it's probably a bit risky going out on the streets to run, given the crime rate, so perhaps there is a justification for some to use a gym.

I always have a bit of a chuckle when I see cars with bikes on the back driving for miles and miles and miles out of town just to ride the bike around a bit. Using an exercycle in one's lounge while looking at VDOs of scenery would surely reduce the amount of pollution people put into the air. I thought people were fixated on climate change, 5555555.

Strange world we live in, IMO.

As a landscape gardener I often had to suffer the disdain of customers that found physical labour to be degrading and proof of stupidity, while they went jogging, to their tennis club or gym. A couple of times they offered to help until I fired them, one time the guy 'had to stop' because he had to go jogging. 

I didn't get on well with my father but he did instill in me pride in being able to work physically. (I think it was something like : "girls like sweaty muscles...")

The joke is that many study really hard to get a job that doesn't involve being outside and then have to spend money in gyms in the mistaken belief that that's the way to lose weight. 

My career as a civil engineer came to an end when I realised that the promotion coming up would more or less leave me trapped in the office all day filling out forms and flirting with the secretaries...

 

[BigStar]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I see you are now making personal insults. You may have a point to your ramblings, but insulting people isn't going to convince anyone of it.

You're seeing personal insults under every rock now, pal. Good luck building that case. Point was that if the poster is sedentary yet exercising with seeming sufficiency BUT still having issues, then better he should see a doc and get checked out, could have some sort of metabolic problem he's currently unaware of. Suggesting taking a look at the numbers actually isn't in the least insulting for those who don't believe that Ignorance Is Bliss. Posters, including Sheryl, commonly suggest the same thing. Is she being insulting?

[BigStar]

1 hour ago, cooked said:

I didn't get on well with my father but he did instill in me pride in being able to work physically. (I think it was something like : "girls like sweaty muscles...")

The joke is that many study really hard to get a job that doesn't involve being outside and then have to spend money in gyms in the mistaken belief that that's the way to lose weight. 

Despite your physical work, however, you still ended up on statins and beta-blockers. It's too bad we don't have the followup on those who went jogging while you worked.

 

One thing about consistent recreational exercise is that it tends almost from the start to enhance one's awareness about diet. By 1972 Atkins had published his milestone work on low carb, but the establishment hated it, so perhaps your joggers ignored it as well. However, there've always been diets out there healthier than the SAD (Standard American Diet). Maybe your joggers managed to keep their TG/HDL ratio in line and their BP normal in later years.

 

Or maybe not--tell you the truth, I don't give a s**t. Anecdotes don't mean anything. I'm more interested in probabilities according to the science.

 

Weight loss is a common reason for spending money in gyms, of course, esp among females--mistakenly, as you say.

 

However, for the guys, particularly younger guys, I'd say the most important reason is to build beach muscles and try to impress women. Yeah--get big, like Arnold. Most of the fitness industry capitalizes on that dream so it's hard to cut through the noise. Some never outgrow it and really think the only purpose of exercising is bodybuilding.???? Now I don't know that young women are impressed by old bodybuilders, but maybe they are.

 

I'd say old guys should be thinking more in terms of fitness with health. Injury avoidance comes to the fore. You might read Dear Over-45 Trainee… by a highly respected old trainer who walks the walk. 

 

I gave the common definition of fitness earlier. One can't really be assured of being fit and healthy without the numbers, however. I cut them bushes or I shoveled that dirt means nothing. James Fixx ran races and marathons. He felt great and thought he was so fit that he didn't need any checkups. If he'd gone in as advised, his predisposition and his preexisting conditions from having been sedentary, overweight, and smoking 2 packs a day wouldn't have killed him at a relatively early age.

 

Very high profile death, James Fixx, often distorted and lied about by Exercise Avoiders. ????

 

Edited July 27, 2021 by BigStar

[Sparktrader]

5 hours ago, robblok said:

 

 

People who hit the 150-minute recommendation were 28% less likely to die early. What’s more, that number was 35% for those who exercised beyond this guidance (42Trusted Source).

 

From your own article. I would not call 7% extra for a bit extra time diminishing returns. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Check the numbers. 25 by 7 is above 150 already.

[Sparktrader]

175. Beyond that what you get????

 

 

[swissie]

Gentlemen, I am pleased to notice that this thread has generated quite some interest. A good number of posters are supplying "links" to support their views. Very commendable.

If I were not such a lazy old geezer, I could post a 100 links that prove me right. I could also post a 100 links that prove me death-wrong.

- But then, I could also post a 100 links that prove that Elvis is working as a short order cook at McDonalds.

At some point, every thread is getting "old". We are getting there. We need new threads like: "How to become a millionaire just by whisteling the "yankee-doodle" every morning on the balcony in Pattaya". Catchy stuff like this, supported by "links", of course.

[robblok]

23 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

While I do not doubt your post, I can't get past the saying about "why would we want to live longer in a rest home?".

I know quite a bit about rest homes and the less time I have to be in one the better for me. If that means dying at 75 instead of 85, so be it.

The thing is if your in shape the in general the rest of your days will be in better quality because of mobility and other things that are just better for those that exercise.

 

If you ask my why would i want to be sick and bed ridden then of course i would not want it. I am talking about quality life here. 

 

What you don't seem to get is that those who exercise are generally in better physical shape and have less problems then those who dont at an older age.

 

I have seen this with my parents and others i know its only anecdotal evidence but I am sure I can dig up some studies.

 

So what do you mean those 10 years are they years where you dont suffer have good mobility and can do stuff.. or if they are years of suffering. If the latter i totally agree with you. But I doubt that is the case for people exercising as the whole idea behind is is an extension of quality life not extension of bedridden sick life.

[BigStar]

10 hours ago, swissie said:

If I were not such a lazy old geezer, I could post a 100 links that prove me right. I could also post a 100 links that prove me death-wrong.

Another phony excuse, but inadvertently perhaps an indirect admission that your disparagement of exercise is merely owing to your being a "lazy old geezer." What a surprise.

 

Occasionally a poster attempts to take refuge in "number of links" as a silly deflection. Means nothing.

 

Quality is what counts. Google "should children wear masks" and you get a ton of state-sponsored "opinions." It happens that buried among the piles of propaganda is some actual science: Experimental Assessment of Carbon Dioxide Content in Inhaled Air With or Without Face Masks in Healthy Children: A Randomized Clinical Trial.

 

WOT??? Want your kid to wear a mask now?

 

10 hours ago, swissie said:

At some point, every thread is getting "old". We are getting there.

At some point, every troll (as you're actually trolling the idea of exercise and refuse to engage in dialogue) gets tired and maybe even slightly embarrassed at having his opinions exposed as nonsensical and self-defeating. Are you saying you're getting there?

 

Why not answer some of the questions you've been asked?

 

Ironically I once knew a fairly wealthy old Swiss geezer in his 80s who owned several luxury condos in my building. Knew him slightly, as I repaired his computer a few times, free of charge. (Better mention the "free," lest our trolls start chanting, "work permit???" and threatening.) Quite a fine old gentleman, really. Well-liked. 

 

He was, not coincidentally, intelligent enough to realize the benefits of exercise. He had always belonged to a gym. Soon as Centara Grand Mirage Pattaya Beach opened, he changed his membership to the new finest gym in Pattaya. 

 

So he exercised regularly there, a few times a week, and even rode his motorbike until in his 90s he became too frail. Looked old as Methuselah. He made it to around 96 until cancer finally got him. He died in his condo--but not alone.

 

The nice thing about his last decade or so was that he had the most lovely female Thai companion in her mid-thirties to help take care of all his needs. Educated, well-mannered, fluent in English, very desirable. I've often wondered what happened to her . . . she must be quite comfortable, wherever she is. 

 

To address your earlier point, then, I think he did die with a smile on his face, but at least 20 years later than those you're familiar with. Sounds much better, no?

 

 

 

Edited July 28, 2021 by BigStar

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

The thing is if your in shape the in general the rest of your days will be in better quality because of mobility and other things that are just better for those that exercise.

 

If you ask my why would i want to be sick and bed ridden then of course i would not want it. I am talking about quality life here. 

 

What you don't seem to get is that those who exercise are generally in better physical shape and have less problems then those who dont at an older age.

 

I have seen this with my parents and others i know its only anecdotal evidence but I am sure I can dig up some studies.

 

So what do you mean those 10 years are they years where you dont suffer have good mobility and can do stuff.. or if they are years of suffering. If the latter i totally agree with you. But I doubt that is the case for people exercising as the whole idea behind is is an extension of quality life not extension of bedridden sick life.

I don't disagree with what you say, and I've never advocated for not doing any exercise. I exercise a lot, but by doing physical activity- I don't pay a gym to exercise.

IMO no one has to pay a gym, as some other option is usually available. In the past people did gardening and played sport, but now many don't have any land to garden on, and only watch sport on tv, but there are alternatives.

 

At present I'm fine. I can shovel dirt for hours if I want. I can't walk for miles and miles like I used to, but I'm not using a mobility scooter yet.

Unfortunately, the chances now of a heart attack or stroke happening are higher than 10 years ago, and if I have one I want it to be massive and kill me, so not really into doing anything to prevent it NOW.

While I am OK at present, the deterioration is obvious and progressive, so the end is inevitable. I just have zero desire to be "saved" to be stuck in front of daytime tv in some ghastly resthome. If that means I miss out on a couple of years banging away on TVF, that's OK with me.

[robblok]

20 hours ago, BigStar said:

There must be overlap of course, but unlike yourself @tropo emphasizes lighter weights specifically for protecting joints esp in older people (which you deny) and also the importance of intensity (which you normally ignore) and uses super slow. He emphasizes rest more. Moreover, he doesn't go for high protein diets.

 

So in general a much more intelligent approach to exercise better suited for our overweight, out of shape older members. However, I'd take the same principles and further optimize them. 

 

He's very big on rowing, of course, but like yourself doesn't row particularly efficiently.

 

For examples of some statements,

 

There are ways to increase muscle size without the need to go heavy. The muscles don't know how much you're lifting - only your ego knows that. It's easy to make light weights feel heavy and the muscles will not know the difference and grow.

 

My main point is - why lift heavy if you can develop a better physique and get better muscular conditioning from lifting lighter. Heavy weights place a huge toll on your joints, ligaments and tendons and comes with a high degree of inherent risk.

 

. . . why lift heavy if you can develop a better physique and get better muscular conditioning from lifting lighter

 

And he's against severe calorie restriction:

 

This is one of the reasons why severe calorie restriction never works in the long run - it just can't be maintained.

 

When I say the same thing, however, you feel obligated to disagree.????

 

 

You seem to be under the impression im doing heavy weights (maybe in your eyes but not in mine). I never go for low reps (below 8). So the weights are not that heavy. I told you countless times already but you don't want to believe me I don't lift for my ego. I will never get stronger then I have been (maybe a bit on certain exercises). There is no point for beating myself up to go heavier. I just increase when I can. When things are too light. 

 

I also don't believe in SEVERE calorie restrictions. (not for long term anyway).

 

Tropo did rowing a LOT more then me was also stronger and faster at it. (he is a bit taller then me). I wish i could do as much as he did cardio. Just not what i like. So not sure where you get the efferently thing from. We are talking about rowing on a machine not (cardio) not the weightlifting rowing.

 

I am actually not even trying to get bigger muscles anymore. Again I have reached my max there is no point (unless i were to take a heavy steroid cycle. But for what there is no need). My goals are just staying lean (and often i try to get really lean). Not bigger muscles. Been a long time like that. If you train hard and good for 5 years straight you really get to your physical max. I am there already so for me its just maintenance. 

 

Not sure why you always seem to think i want to get more muscle or push heavier weights. Maybe that is something in your mind but certainly not in mine. Weights are a tool not an objective. Soon I will have a adjustable cable cross for in my gym. Can't wait to do face pulls (good for shoulder mobility and posture) and other shoulder and light chest exercises. I even have some rings that i use for chest (gym rings i hang on a power rack for suspended push ups. 

 

Sure i believe in the big 3 (Squat / Deadlift and Bench press) but the first 2 are great for legs the third a personal preference and admittedly not the safest exercise around but if you can do it without pain why not. I believe in multi joint exercises above isolation ones. I still believe in progressive overload (not going to happen much for me anymore like i explained before). 

 

The only way for me to get bigger (LOOK BIGGER) is getting leaner and that is diet and cardio. Not my lifting. Lifting is fun for me.

 

And I have had these discussions with Tropo too, we see things pretty much eye to eye. Maybe he trains a bit lighter then me higher reps then 8 but I am younger then him. Who knows if i feel my joints hurt or anything i might go lighter. 

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I don't disagree with what you say, and I've never advocated for not doing any exercise. I exercise a lot, but by doing physical activity- I don't pay a gym to exercise.

IMO no one has to pay a gym, as some other option is usually available. In the past people did gardening and played sport, but now many don't have any land to garden on, and only watch sport on tv, but there are alternatives.

 

At present I'm fine. I can shovel dirt for hours if I want. I can't walk for miles and miles like I used to, but I'm not using a mobility scooter yet.

Unfortunately, the chances now of a heart attack or stroke happening are higher than 10 years ago, and if I have one I want it to be massive and kill me, so not really into doing anything to prevent it NOW.

While I am OK at present, the deterioration is obvious and progressive, so the end is inevitable. I just have zero desire to be "saved" to be stuck in front of daytime tv in some ghastly resthome. If that means I miss out on a couple of years banging away on TVF, that's OK with me.

I don't know if you need a gym or not that is personal depends on your goals and likes. I am not one to say that you need to do this or that. I always said find exercise you like and do it even if its not the best most effective. I am looking at it can it be maintained do you like it angle. If you hate it you cant maintain it.

 

I totally agree that i would not want to be living with a stroke seen my grandfather after one.  I was talking about quality life extension and if exercise gives me a few extra good years then it did what i wanted. I don't want to live forever. But i certainly want to be more like my dad then like my mom quality life wise. 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

I always said find exercise you like and do it even if its not the best most effective.

I get bored too quickly doing exercise for the sake of exercise. In Saudi I had no options for physical work outside, so I had a rowing machine and an exercycle, and the residence had a weight machine upstairs. I used to use the exercycle while watching VDOs, but despite good intentions never used the rowing machine after a couple of times, and later gave up the exercycle altogether. The best I managed was the 7 flights of stairs to the weight room as often as I got motivated.

Must have worked though, as I was no less fit when leaving Saudi for the last time as when I arrived. However, nursing is a physical occupation anyway.

[robblok]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

I get bored too quickly doing exercise for the sake of exercise. In Saudi I had no options for physical work outside, so I had a rowing machine and an exercycle, and the residence had a weight machine upstairs. I used to use the exercycle while watching VDOs, but despite good intentions never used the rowing machine after a couple of times, and later gave up the exercycle altogether. The best I managed was the 7 flights of stairs to the weight room as often as I got motivated.

Must have worked though, as I was no less fit when leaving Saudi for the last time as when I arrived. However, nursing is a physical occupation anyway.

I get bored with cardio too, so I understand your problem. I tried watching VDO while cycling / rowing but i feel that i can't put enough effort in the rowing / cycling then. Music helps a bit. But I never felt that i liked cardio. So i kept it short. Highest i did was 50 minutes intense rowing. But it was such a task to start that in the end i did fewer of those sessions. I decided shorter was better. 

 

But yes I get the idea. In the end its just a personal choice what is important how much do you want to do things you don't like. I do my cardio when i want to get really lean. And at some point i even like it as long as I don't do it too much. But the hardest part is to build it up to where i like it and its embedded in my program.

 

Exercise is a habit you need to form and that is not always easy.

 

Anyway I get those who don't want to exercise its up to them. If they don't think the reward is enough so be it. However just like those people who died of covid who were begging for the vaccine they earlier refused thinking it could safe them when it was too late people often realize their mistake too late.

 

But if your decision is well thought off and you accept whatever will follow from it then so be it. I mean who am i or others to rule your life. 

 

I certainly like you would not want to live on after a rough stroke or other really bad diseases.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, robblok said:

I get bored with cardio too, so I understand your problem. I tried watching VDO while cycling / rowing but i feel that i can't put enough effort in the rowing / cycling then. Music helps a bit. But I never felt that i liked cardio. So i kept it short. Highest i did was 50 minutes intense rowing. But it was such a task to start that in the end i did fewer of those sessions. I decided shorter was better. 

 

But yes I get the idea. In the end its just a personal choice what is important how much do you want to do things you don't like. I do my cardio when i want to get really lean. And at some point i even like it as long as I don't do it too much. But the hardest part is to build it up to where i like it and its embedded in my program.

 

Exercise is a habit you need to form and that is not always easy.

 

Anyway I get those who don't want to exercise its up to them. If they don't think the reward is enough so be it. However just like those people who died of covid who were begging for the vaccine they earlier refused thinking it could safe them when it was too late people often realize their mistake too late.

 

But if your decision is well thought off and you accept whatever will follow from it then so be it. I mean who am i or others to rule your life. 

 

I certainly like you would not want to live on after a rough stroke or other really bad diseases.

I already have a DNR so even if I get corona I won't be resuscitated or in ICU. Who knows, it might be no worse than dengue, and I survived 3 strains of that.

[GarryP]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

I get bored with cardio too, so I understand your problem. I tried watching VDO while cycling / rowing but i feel that i can't put enough effort in the rowing / cycling then. Music helps a bit. But I never felt that i liked cardio. So i kept it short. Highest i did was 50 minutes intense rowing. But it was such a task to start that in the end i did fewer of those sessions. I decided shorter was better. 

 

But yes I get the idea. In the end its just a personal choice what is important how much do you want to do things you don't like. I do my cardio when i want to get really lean. And at some point i even like it as long as I don't do it too much. But the hardest part is to build it up to where i like it and its embedded in my program.

 

Exercise is a habit you need to form and that is not always easy.

 

Anyway I get those who don't want to exercise its up to them. If they don't think the reward is enough so be it. However just like those people who died of covid who were begging for the vaccine they earlier refused thinking it could safe them when it was too late people often realize their mistake too late.

 

But if your decision is well thought off and you accept whatever will follow from it then so be it. I mean who am i or others to rule your life. 

 

I certainly like you would not want to live on after a rough stroke or other really bad diseases.

Get back on that rowing machine. ???????? Took a day off today because I had a case of BPPV after cleaning the windows yesterday. But I'll be back on it tomorrow, even though I've already completed the Concept2 Rowlympic Challenge well before the last day, 30 July. 

 

I pretty much force myself to row as it is not phenomenally enjoyable, but luckily being borderline OCD helps. 10km every Saturday and Sunday, and 6 km three weekdays. I have the earbuds in and music on, as without at least some distraction it would be unbearable. I do switch around a lot though to hit my daily targets. On Saturday and Sunday I may start with 5km followed by 1km or 500m intervals for the second 5km, or just do 2km x 5, or a straight 10. Weekdays are often 3km x 2 or a straight 6km. Switching it around reduces the monotony.

 

As I don't spend much time on this forum anymore, apart from a few threads I follow, I don't know how tropo is doing but I do recall he is heavy into rowing too.    

[cooked]

On 7/27/2021 at 3:10 PM, BigStar said:

Despite your physical work, however, you still ended up on statins and beta-blockers. It's too bad we don't have the followup on those who went jogging while you worked.

 

One thing about consistent recreational exercise is that it tends almost from the start to enhance one's awareness about diet. By 1972 Atkins had published his milestone work on low carb, but the establishment hated it, so perhaps your joggers ignored it as well. However, there've always been diets out there healthier than the SAD (Standard American Diet). Maybe your joggers managed to keep their TG/HDL ratio in line and their BP normal in later years.

 

Or maybe not--tell you the truth, I don't give a s**t. Anecdotes don't mean anything. I'm more interested in probabilities according to the science.

 

Weight loss is a common reason for spending money in gyms, of course, esp among females--mistakenly, as you say.

 

However, for the guys, particularly younger guys, I'd say the most important reason is to build beach muscles and try to impress women. Yeah--get big, like Arnold. Most of the fitness industry capitalizes on that dream so it's hard to cut through the noise. Some never outgrow it and really think the only purpose of exercising is bodybuilding.???? Now I don't know that young women are impressed by old bodybuilders, but maybe they are.

 

I'd say old guys should be thinking more in terms of fitness with health. Injury avoidance comes to the fore. You might read Dear Over-45 Trainee… by a highly respected old trainer who walks the walk. 

 

I gave the common definition of fitness earlier. One can't really be assured of being fit and healthy without the numbers, however. I cut them bushes or I shoveled that dirt means nothing. James Fixx ran races and marathons. He felt great and thought he was so fit that he didn't need any checkups. If he'd gone in as advised, his predisposition and his preexisting conditions from having been sedentary, overweight, and smoking 2 packs a day wouldn't have killed him at a relatively early age.

 

Very high profile death, James Fixx, often distorted and lied about by Exercise Avoiders. ????

 

My problems started during the few years when I stopped working, I had no need of statins etc when I was working. Sorry about that.

[Sparktrader]

I get bored with these arguments

[BigStar]

On 7/28/2021 at 12:22 AM, swissie said:

At some point, every thread is getting "old". We are getting there. We need new threads like: "How to become a millionaire just by whisteling the "yankee-doodle" every morning on the balcony in Pattaya". Catchy stuff like this, supported by "links", of course.

Not posting scientific evidence to contradict the nonsense in your posts wouldn't really help your case, however. Unfortunately we still do have a few members here who know the science and can still think. Rational thinking is the biggest problem. I don't think it's been banned here quite yet.

 

Lack of imagination, ratiocination, and articulation is, sad to say, suggestive of the cognitive decline that we commonly see here, notably in the ability to read (posts and links, for example) and remember.

 

 

Your suggestion for new topics was then predictably unimaginative and irrelevant, so disappointing.

 

Got some good sun during a brief walk on the beach yesterday (gonna finish up this laugh then go out for another) followed up by a few sprints. So, feeling good here, in all benevolence lemme help ya out, man. Here's a quick list of topics related to this one you may find congenial, if you're not too tired. Feel free to start any of these, they're yours now:

 

• How I early learned sitting on my bottom from watching my parents, relatives, and neighbors sitting on their hands during WWII.
• Why denigrating the idea of exercise makes me feel SO much better about my big belly and fat a.r.se!
• Why moving to Thailand causes grown men so quickly to revert to pre-pubescent childishness. Hee hee.
• How to delude yourself that trolling on the internet doesn’t reveal you as an idiot
• The many advantages conferred by a big belly and fat a.r.se
• Any fat a.r.se should learn proper waddling to avoid falls and ankle sprains
• Use Scotch tape to create your “happy look” in hospital waiting rooms—invisibly! Pro tip: apply before climbing onto gurneys
• How shamelessly to ask your doc for extra painkiller for your stupid self-inflicted ailments
• Knee and hip replacements are greatly underrated for comfort and efficacy
• Why not love your beta-blockers, statins, metformin and insulin injections?
• Survey: how many meds are you taking to avoid a healthy lifestyle?
• How to fool your Omron blood pressure cuff into giving you a “normal” reading, heh
• Diabetic? A prosthesis beats a real leg any day!
• The intangible rewards of financially supporting needy docs, hospitals and pharmacies
• How OCR can help you check hospital bills more efficiently
• How to delude yourself that being fat, weak, lazy, and whiny is actually a virtue—because it’s you.
• How fat, lazy, unhealthy people lead much more interesting and exciting lives than the lean, fit, and healthy. Really.
• How to protect yourself against learning anything about health-related matters. Ignorance is bliss.
• If you feel good, you’re automatically healthy! Forget them silly checkups.
• Live longer by crawling slowly on all fours like a turtle
• Avoid back problems: try harder to emulate a jellyfish.
• Thank god for small women who can climb on top!
• I lurve me dentures. How about u?
• Why medicate? Let Fate and Genetics Voodoo finish their work quickly, with your wife or gf's blessing.
• Mystery of the day: why do I always have to pay women to stay around me?
• Pro tip: for better cardio, remove the wheels from your rolling walker.
• Why Exercise Avoiders believe their puerile claims of elbow bending and sexual prowess mean something
• Why the jokes, bravado, and claims of “ready to go” disappear in the Health forum.
• How to delude yourself that you’re healthy and fit without ever seeing a doc or medical lab. Hee.
• Why it’s a good idea to spend more years with chronic diseases and then even more years, earlier, in a nursing home
• Is my obvious cognitive decline really just owing to Fate and Genes?

OK, I'm outta here. Later, man.

[Sparktrader]

8 minutes ago, BigStar said:

Not posting scientific evidence to contradict the nonsense in your posts wouldn't really help your case, however. Unfortunately we still do have a few members here who know the science and can still think. Rational thinking is the biggest problem. I don't think it's been banned here quite yet.

 

Lack of imagination, ratiocination, and articulation is, sad to say, suggestive of the cognitive decline that we commonly see here, notably in the ability to read (posts and links, for example) and remember.

 

 

Your suggestion for new topics was then predictably unimaginative and irrelevant, so disappointing.

 

Got some good sun during a brief walk on the beach yesterday (gonna finish up this laugh then go out for another) followed up by a few sprints. So, feeling good here, in all benevolence lemme help ya out, man. Here's a quick list of topics related to this one you may find congenial, if you're not too tired. Feel free to start any of these, they're yours now:

 

• How I early learned sitting on my bottom from watching my parents, relatives, and neighbors sitting on their hands during WWII.
• Why denigrating the idea of exercise makes me feel SO much better about my big belly and fat a.r.se!
• Why moving to Thailand causes grown men so quickly to revert to pre-pubescent childishness. Hee hee.
• How to delude yourself that trolling on the internet doesn’t reveal you as an idiot
• The many advantages conferred by a big belly and fat a.r.se
• Any fat a.r.se should learn proper waddling to avoid falls and ankle sprains
• Use Scotch tape to create your “happy look” in hospital waiting rooms—invisibly! Pro tip: apply before climbing onto gurneys
• How shamelessly to ask your doc for extra painkiller for your stupid self-inflicted ailments
• Knee and hip replacements are greatly underrated for comfort and efficacy
• Why not love your beta-blockers, statins, metformin and insulin injections?
• Survey: how many meds are you taking to avoid a healthy lifestyle?
• How to fool your Omron blood pressure cuff into giving you a “normal” reading, heh
• Diabetic? A prosthesis beats a real leg any day!
• The intangible rewards of financially supporting needy docs, hospitals and pharmacies
• How OCR can help you check hospital bills more efficiently
• How to delude yourself that being fat, weak, lazy, and whiny is actually a virtue—because it’s you.
• How fat, lazy, unhealthy people lead much more interesting and exciting lives than the lean, fit, and healthy. Really.
• How to protect yourself against learning anything about health-related matters. Ignorance is bliss.
• If you feel good, you’re automatically healthy! Forget them silly checkups.
• Live longer by crawling slowly on all fours like a turtle
• Avoid back problems: try harder to emulate a jellyfish.
• Thank god for small women who can climb on top!
• I lurve me dentures. How about u?
• Why medicate? Let Fate and Genetics Voodoo finish their work quickly, with your wife or gf's blessing.
• Mystery of the day: why do I always have to pay women to stay around me?
• Pro tip: for better cardio, remove the wheels from your rolling walker.
• Why Exercise Avoiders believe their puerile claims of elbow bending and sexual prowess mean something
• Why the jokes, bravado, and claims of “ready to go” disappear in the Health forum.
• How to delude yourself that you’re healthy and fit without ever seeing a doc or medical lab. Hee.
• Why it’s a good idea to spend more years with chronic diseases and then even more years, earlier, in a nursing home
• Is my obvious cognitive decline really just owing to Fate and Genes?

OK, I'm outta here. Later, man.

Good teeth

No pills

 

Exercise overrated

[swissie]

7 hours ago, BigStar said:

Not posting scientific evidence to contradict the nonsense in your posts wouldn't really help your case, however. Unfortunately we still do have a few members here who know the science and can still think. Rational thinking is the biggest problem. I don't think it's been banned here quite yet.

 

Lack of imagination, ratiocination, and articulation is, sad to say, suggestive of the cognitive decline that we commonly see here, notably in the ability to read (posts and links, for example) and remember.

 

 

Your suggestion for new topics was then predictably unimaginative and irrelevant, so disappointing.

 

Got some good sun during a brief walk on the beach yesterday (gonna finish up this laugh then go out for another) followed up by a few sprints. So, feeling good here, in all benevolence lemme help ya out, man. Here's a quick list of topics related to this one you may find congenial, if you're not too tired. Feel free to start any of these, they're yours now:

 

• How I early learned sitting on my bottom from watching my parents, relatives, and neighbors sitting on their hands during WWII.
• Why denigrating the idea of exercise makes me feel SO much better about my big belly and fat a.r.se!
• Why moving to Thailand causes grown men so quickly to revert to pre-pubescent childishness. Hee hee.
• How to delude yourself that trolling on the internet doesn’t reveal you as an idiot
• The many advantages conferred by a big belly and fat a.r.se
• Any fat a.r.se should learn proper waddling to avoid falls and ankle sprains
• Use Scotch tape to create your “happy look” in hospital waiting rooms—invisibly! Pro tip: apply before climbing onto gurneys
• How shamelessly to ask your doc for extra painkiller for your stupid self-inflicted ailments
• Knee and hip replacements are greatly underrated for comfort and efficacy
• Why not love your beta-blockers, statins, metformin and insulin injections?
• Survey: how many meds are you taking to avoid a healthy lifestyle?
• How to fool your Omron blood pressure cuff into giving you a “normal” reading, heh
• Diabetic? A prosthesis beats a real leg any day!
• The intangible rewards of financially supporting needy docs, hospitals and pharmacies
• How OCR can help you check hospital bills more efficiently
• How to delude yourself that being fat, weak, lazy, and whiny is actually a virtue—because it’s you.
• How fat, lazy, unhealthy people lead much more interesting and exciting lives than the lean, fit, and healthy. Really.
• How to protect yourself against learning anything about health-related matters. Ignorance is bliss.
• If you feel good, you’re automatically healthy! Forget them silly checkups.
• Live longer by crawling slowly on all fours like a turtle
• Avoid back problems: try harder to emulate a jellyfish.
• Thank god for small women who can climb on top!
• I lurve me dentures. How about u?
• Why medicate? Let Fate and Genetics Voodoo finish their work quickly, with your wife or gf's blessing.
• Mystery of the day: why do I always have to pay women to stay around me?
• Pro tip: for better cardio, remove the wheels from your rolling walker.
• Why Exercise Avoiders believe their puerile claims of elbow bending and sexual prowess mean something
• Why the jokes, bravado, and claims of “ready to go” disappear in the Health forum.
• How to delude yourself that you’re healthy and fit without ever seeing a doc or medical lab. Hee.
• Why it’s a good idea to spend more years with chronic diseases and then even more years, earlier, in a nursing home
• Is my obvious cognitive decline really just owing to Fate and Genes?

OK, I'm outta here. Later, man.

Clearly, this has become some sort of "crusade/obsession" for you. Be advised, that if you intensify this crusade, you will likely need a Thai Work-Permit.

LET IT BE KNOWN TO EVERYBODY: It is known why all living things get older and eventually will die. Google: TELOMERE(s). This explains, why cell-division gets worse the older we get. Ultimately leading to "death". (plenty of "links").

Look it up and tell me if the worsening ability by cells to divide can be influenced by exercise. You will be hard pressed to find anything to that effect, me thinks.

If you can link the functionig of TELOMERE(s) to any sort of exercise, the next Nobel-Price in medicine is yours and I will be glad to join your crusade and I will worship the ground you walk on.  That should encourage you to look up TELOMERE(s).

 

[BigStar]

1 hour ago, swissie said:

Look it up and tell me if the worsening ability by cells to divide can be influenced by exercise. You will be hard pressed to find anything to that effect, me thinks.

You seem to have forgotten your own point raised in the OP. How could that happen?

 

If your point was merely that "people die," then you should have said that in your OP, and we could all have nodded wisely and thanked you for sharing and closed the thread.

 

But it wasn't. So all this telomeres irrelevance is merely a red herring you've whomped up as part of the overall excuse for doing nothing. As noted earlier, you need no excuse, so I dunno why you keep coming up with them. "Don't want to, too lazy" is quite good 'nuff. Cheers!

 

It's not about cells dividing. They do.????

 

It's about, in short, the resistance of those cells over time to chronic diseases that will kill their host before what would otherwise the host's normally expected lifespan absent chronic disease. Healthy diet and exercise can, and often do, increase that resistance and so enable a host to live longer, more comfortably, than if a chronic disease had finished him off early, barring accidents. Common sense, really. 

 

So the goal of a healthy lifestyle is to feel good and look one's best (for those concerned with aesthetics) while trying to postpone chronic diseases, enjoy a longer time free of them, lessen the probability of being done in earlier than need be, and to deal with the onset of inevitable morbidity as late as possible. It's laughable to insist that isn't the goal, make up some other one, and then argue with yourself. That's why your posts are such fun.

 

Note that it's a matter of scientific probability according to the evidence. Some prefer to bet with the house; most, nowadays, prefer to bet against it. Who cares? But you seem to have some BIG problem with the first group, constantly needing to assure yourself it's actually wiser to bet against the house by doing nothing. Why's that?

 

Contracting morbidity very late means a much shorter time of suffering, because your resistance will by then be quite weak. That would be a desirable outcome.

 

And you've been shown that goal and the evidence has been quoted for you and linked previously. In brief, again:

 

 

 

Edited July 29, 2021 by BigStar

[swissie]

58 minutes ago, BigStar said:

You seem to have forgotten your own point raised in the OP. How could that happen?

 

If your point was merely that "people die," then you should have said that in your OP, and we could all have nodded wisely and thanked you for sharing and closed the thread.

 

But it wasn't. So all this telomeres irrelevance is merely a red herring you've whomped up as part of the overall excuse for doing nothing. As noted earlier, you need no excuse, so I dunno why you keep coming up with them. "Don't want to, too lazy" is quite good 'nuff. Cheers!

 

It's not about cells dividing. They do.????

 

It's about, in short, the resistance of those cells over time to chronic diseases that will kill their host before what would otherwise the host's normally expected lifespan absent chronic disease. Healthy diet and exercise can, and often do, increase that resistance and so enable a host to live longer, more comfortably, than if a chronic disease had finished him off early, barring accidents. Common sense, really. 

 

So the goal of a healthy lifestyle is to feel good and look one's best (for those concerned with aesthetics) while trying to postpone chronic diseases, enjoy a longer time free of them, lessen the probability of being done in earlier than need be, and to deal with the onset of inevitable morbidity as late as possible. It's laughable to insist that isn't the goal, make up some other one, and then argue with yourself. That's why your posts are such fun.

 

Note that it's a matter of scientific probability according to the evidence. Some prefer to bet with the house; most, nowadays, prefer to bet against it. Who cares? But you seem to have some BIG problem with the first group, constantly needing to assure yourself it's actually wiser to bet against the house by doing nothing. Why's that?

 

Contracting morbidity very late means a much shorter time of suffering, because your resistance will by then be quite weak. That would be a desirable outcome.

 

And you've been shown that goal and the evidence has been quoted for you and linked previously. In brief, again:

 

 

 

I am devasteted. You have not taken the time to occupy you with the subject of Telemeres in depth. As you seem to have plenty of time to comment here, why not invest the same amount of time to look at Telomere(s). As long as  you are unwilling to accept the function of TELOMERES, this conversation  is entirely pointless.