Update on Thailand's vaccination programme and our response

[4MyEgo]

20 hours ago, British Consular Team said:

Thanks for this comment, 4MyEgo. You can see some good examples of how we give a rat's a$$ about our citizens here. 

the point being what have you done to ensure that your citizens are being vaccinated, remembering these people paid taxes all of their lives, some still paying taxes while living here, I will add most live overseas because it's too expensive to live in their own country, but then again, I shouldn't presume should I.

 

I take it that your answer will be, nothing, the French and Chinese seem to care and the best you can come up with is thanks for your comment and you want to show me some examples on a link that tells me what I already know, i.e. nothing about getting your citizens vaccinated, total failure in my opinion.

 

Like I said, embassies are nothing short of corporations, no doubt you got vaccinated, and we all know the answer to that, which shows some citizens are above others, even though they are from the same country.

[jayboy]

14 hours ago, British Consular Team said:

We will check this point, yes. And if you DM us the details of the hospital you went to we will try to confirm their policy too, if this is different.

I think what the hospital authorities are primarily interested in is the ID number on the pink card for which in most cases the yellow book is needed.I don't understand why this is seen as so important but that's the reality we have to deal with.

[jayboy]

13 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

I recognise the poor optics of vaccinating foreign nationals on Thai soil ahead of our hosts.

I don't think there is the slightest evidence this is an issue for the Thai authorities or the Thai people. I would hazard a guess, while not caring much one way or the other, the Thai government would be pleased to see a problem taken care of by someone else.

 

 

[theoldgit]

1 hour ago, jayboy said:

I think what the hospital authorities are primarily interested in is the ID number on the pink card for which in most cases the yellow book is needed.I don't understand why this is seen as so important but that's the reality we have to deal with.

This is a prime example of the inconsistency of managing this process up and down the country.

 

I live in Hua Hin where the local hospital have adopted a virtual ID Card system, they have basically picked a number for the first applicant and then add one for each applicant, this seems to work and allows me to check my place in the queue, there's currently 2,000 people in front of me.

 

I think the local hospital are managing the process pretty well, and are only scuppered when the expected vaccines fail to arrive.

[jayboy]

13 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

I would urge the British Embassy to take steps to secure vaccination for those most vulnerable in high risk groups. 

I fully accept that The British Embassy is unable to provide vaccinations for the resident community.Nor in my view is it reasonable to expect this given that most Brits here, notwithstanding the obstacle course, will be able to look after themselves.

 

The real issue is the old and vulnerable here. I have no doubt that it would be possible to launch an Embassy based initiative to identify and help those in this group who haven't been able to get vaccinated.It would require a proactive Ambassador who had something of the Nelson touch in batting back "line to take" policies from London. Feeding back the local community's concerns doesn't have much impact - simply not important enough in the overall scheme of things except to generate a desk officer's brief memo to his Head Of Department.

 

 

[sungod]

23 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Presumably all the British Consular team have been vaccinated by now?

As have all the Thai staff at the BE. Shocking that the Thai government scheme is not good enough for their own staff, but fine for us.

[theoldgit]

52 minutes ago, sungod said:

As have all the Thai staff at the BE. Shocking that the Thai government scheme is not good enough for their own staff, but fine for us.

I’m aware of a number of Thai an foreign companies who’ve also managed to secure vaccines for their own staff, that’s exactly what a caring employer should do, if only to reduce the risk of a service interruption, it’s called contingency planning.

[sungod]

2 hours ago, theoldgit said:

I’m aware of a number of Thai an foreign companies who’ve also managed to secure vaccines for their own staff, that’s exactly what a caring employer should do, if only to reduce the risk of a service interruption, it’s called contingency planning.

So you are happy that the UK government is vaccinating Thai nationals (young and not at risk who have priority over non Thais) whilst many UK nationals who are vulnerable are left to fend for themselves?  Laughable you try the defend this.

 

Contingency planning is what the French have done.

 

Tres bien!

Edited July 14, 2021 by sungod

[treetops]

30 minutes ago, sungod said:

So you are happy that the UK government is vaccinating Thai nationals (young and not at risk who have priority over non Thais) whilst many UK nationals who are vulnerable are left to fend for themselves?  Laughable you try the defend this.

Defending it is easy.

 

As an employer they have vaccinated their staff as any good employer will do, and arguably should do as part of their duty of care to their staff under H & S rules.

 

As an Embassy they must toe the government line, which does not include providing vaccines but only chasing up the Thai government to treat Brits fairly in the country wide roll-out.  This being Thailand we can tell where that will end up, but at least it appears they're trying.

 

We all knew the medical/health situation before moving here, and although we could not have expected the current pandemic it doesn't change that situation.  Time to suck it up instead of crying into your cornflakes.

[sungod]

9 hours ago, treetops said:

Defending it is easy.

 

As an employer they have vaccinated their staff as any good employer will do, and arguably should do as part of their duty of care to their staff under H & S rules.

 

As an Embassy they must toe the government line, which does not include providing vaccines but only chasing up the Thai government to treat Brits fairly in the country wide roll-out.  This being Thailand we can tell where that will end up, but at least it appears they're trying.

 

We all knew the medical/health situation before moving here, and although we could not have expected the current pandemic it doesn't change that situation.  Time to suck it up instead of crying into your cornflakes.

 

 

Dont you think an Embassy would have a duty of care to their citizens as well as their staff who have been vaccinated on our taxes?

 

I'm sucking it up, still fit and healthy. I'm more concerned about the elderly and vulnerable who have been left to fend for themselves, maybe you should have some consideration for them too? You can only see as far as your own nose, another BE groupie who has just secured their invitation to next years QBP!

 

Edited July 15, 2021 by sungod

[jayboy]

12 hours ago, treetops said:

As an Embassy they must toe the government line, which does not include providing vaccines but only chasing up the Thai government to treat Brits fairly in the country wide roll-out.  This being Thailand we can tell where that will end up, but at least it appears they're trying.

I agree.However but the issue is how much energy and focus has been expended on the chasing up bit.I have my own views on this but see no advantage in going into detail.The positive news is that we have a new and personable Ambassador who seems to entirely understand the problem and is determined to provide practical support.

[Eff1n2ret]

On 7/14/2021 at 8:26 AM, jayboy said:

I fully accept that The British Embassy is unable to provide vaccinations for the resident community.Nor in my view is it reasonable to expect this given that most Brits here, notwithstanding the obstacle course, will be able to look after themselves.

That's not really the case. The Rayong Public Health website states quite openly that foreigners will not be offered a vaccine until all Thais have been vaccinated, which in practice means that those of us who are vulnerable, despite adopting a cautious shielding lifestyle, may be exposed to infection long before they get round to inviting us in for a jab. I can't quarrel with the Public Health authority, there's no reason why they shouldn't give preference to their own citizens.

I hope therefore that the Consulate will be passing back such information to the FCO, and making a case for a vaccination programme similar to the French one. The organisation for this is already in place, as it must have been to vaccinate British Embassy staff around the world, so they could if they wanted to; it's just a question of scale. British citizens will die if they do nothing.

I would willingly go to a private hospital, as I've always done that for any treatment I've required, but they seem to be prevented by the government from obtaining vaccine in any quantity. Perhaps there should be some discussions with the government about that.

Edited July 15, 2021 by blackcab
Bold font removed. Please do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes or wording

[BobinBKK]

On 7/2/2021 at 5:11 PM, Golden Triangle said:

[email protected]

 

I had another email recently saying that my email has been passed to the relevant government department, no further reply as yet & to be honest I'm not expecting one, but I would say & have said before is Google email address for UK Prime minister, you will find options there, you are limited to 1000 characters but they will get & read it, the more people that do the better. 

I'm sure the "relevant government department" is the same as the American one for all our emails... "Waste Management Department"

[BobinBKK]

So the UK government policy is the same as the American government policy. For example: The American government is more than happy to help the Thai nationals living in Thailand, but not their own respective citizens living in Thailand. Simply breeds nothing but utter contempt and loathing all around.

[OJAS]

1 hour ago, BobinBKK said:

So the UK government policy is the same as the American government policy. For example: The American government is more than happy to help the Thai nationals living in Thailand, but not their own respective citizens living in Thailand. Simply breeds nothing but utter contempt and loathing all around.

Last week I submitted an enquiry to the Department of Health & Social Care back in the UK asking how many of the 100 million surplus UK vaccines which are being generously given away to other countries by Boris Johnson are destined for Thailand - and, hence, far more likely to end up in Thai, rather than British, arms. The answer I got was that they were unable to provide me with this information thanks to COVID-related staffing pressures! Make of that as you will!!

 

Edited July 15, 2021 by OJAS

[OJAS]

On 7/14/2021 at 8:06 AM, jayboy said:

I don't think there is the slightest evidence this is an issue for the Thai authorities or the Thai people.

On the contrary, the very opposite of the scenario which @richard_smith237envisages is the case in practice - namely those at the local level who are responsible for administering what pathetically passes for a vaccination scheme here in Thailand at the present time deciding to give the very highest priority to ensuring that all Thai nationals on their patch, regardless of their age and health risks, receive both their jabs before a single drop of vaccine finds its way into the arm of an elderly and vulnerable foreigner - as  alluded to in the Rayong example mentioned by @Eff1n2ret:-

 

https://xn--42cf4bzce1atwz0cyc7f1d.com/

 

 

 

Edited July 15, 2021 by OJAS

[OJAS]

2 hours ago, Eff1n2ret said:

I can't quarrel with the Public Health authority, there's no reason why they shouldn't give preference to their own citizens.

I would, however, definitely take issue with them if they were planning to prioritise young and healthy Thais for jabs ahead of elderly and vulnerable foreigners.

 

[OJAS]

15 hours ago, treetops said:

As an Embassy they must toe the government line, which does not include providing vaccines but only chasing up the Thai government to treat Brits fairly in the country wide roll-out.  This being Thailand we can tell where that will end up, but at least it appears they're trying.

I accept that there is probably only so much the Embassy can do, given that they appear to be caught between a rock and a hard place: namely between obduracy on the part of their FCDO masters in Whitehall on the one hand and the pathetic nonsense which their contacts in the Thai government are trying to ply them with on the other (and which may well be primarily motivated by a desire to save face, even at the expense of being economical with the truth). That being the case, I think that it is time for the big guns in the FCDO to intervene in support of their "line to take" - preferably starting with Dominic Raab summoning the Thai Ambassador in London for a stern ticking-off for the negative impact which his government's bungling incompetence and ineptitude in its handling of the COVID-19 pandemic is having on the well-being of local elderly and vulnerable expat Brits.

 

I can only hope, though, that there aren't any sensitive discussions currently taking place between the British and Thai governments on a possible post-Brexit trade deal, which could severely dilute the effectiveness of such an approach!

 

[BobinBKK]

1 hour ago, OJAS said:

Last week I submitted an enquiry to the Department of Health & Social Care back in the UK asking how many of the 100 million surplus UK vaccines which are being generously given away to other countries by Boris Johnson are destined for Thailand - and, hence, far more likely to end up in Thai, rather than British, arms. The answer I got was that they were unable to provide me with this information thanks to COVID-related staffing pressures! Make of that as you will!!

 

I read in one of the news articles recently that the American government requested that 20% of the vaccines that they are donating to Thailand be given to "foreigners" without specific mention of American citizens. Like you, I seriously doubt any of these higher quality vaccines will end up in the arm of an American or British citizen either. The American embassy staff received "their" Pfizer shots at the end of April.

[treetops]

17 hours ago, sungod said:

Dont you think an Embassy would have a duty of care to their citizens as well as their staff who have been vaccinated on our taxes?

 

I'm sucking it up, still fit and healthy. I'm more concerned about the elderly and vulnerable who have been left to fend for themselves, maybe you should have some consideration for them too? You can only see as far as your own nose, another BE groupie who has just secured their invitation to next years QBP!

 

The duty of care under H & S law is to staff, not citizens so is entirely separate from any responsibility as an overseas Embassy.

 

The Embassy's remit has been put on here recently and currently does not include providing vaccines, much as I would like it too.  This responsibility belongs to the government and they have to date arranged for over 80 million of them to be administered, but if you're not there you miss out just as you do with every other aspect of the NHS.

 

I have no love for the Embassy, and every sympathy for most of the elderly and vulnerable here, but I'm sucking it up and taking care of myself as we all knew we would have to do if/when we left home for other climes.  Shame some seem unable to do so now the proverbial shlt has hit the fan.

[OJAS]

On 7/2/2021 at 9:59 AM, British Consular Team said:

The NHS does not provide healthcare outside the UK so it can't offer vaccines to British people who live overseas, including here. This is not an excuse – it’s the UK government’s policy.

But the NHS will, in effect, be providing healthcare outside the UK by offering vaccines to non-British people who live overseas as a result of the Government's decision to donate 100m surplus doses to poorer countries, will it not? The Government's policy to which you refer is, therefore, IMHO all the more deplorable in this light.

 

Edited July 17, 2021 by OJAS

[yang123]

To which FCDO department is the embassy reporting the covid/vaccination situation here?

To which FCDO minister is that department reporting?  

[OJAS]

On 7/16/2021 at 1:29 AM, treetops said:

This responsibility belongs to the government and they have to date arranged for over 80 million of them to be administered, but if you're not there you miss out just as you do with every other aspect of the NHS.

But, of course, none of the non-British beneficiaries of Boris's Great Vaccine Giveaway of 100m spare doses to other countries will miss out by not being there, will they? IMHO it is at best inconsistent that HMG policy dictates that no British expat is eligible for NHS services as far as being vaccinated is concerned, whereas each and every non-Brit in beneficiary countries of Boris's Great Vaccine Giveaway will, on the other hand, be so eligible. That said, I accept that it is probably too much to expect NHS services to be made available across the board to British expats, but I do feel that there is a strong case for an exception to HMG policy to be made in the case of COVID vaccinations for at least those who are in the high-risk category by virtue of age and/or prevailing health conditions.

[Medicine Man]

Have the consular team considered the impact of the Thai vaccination program that has now decided against WHO guidance to mix Sinovac (first jab) with Astrazeneca (second jab)? Surely this change needs the British government to take over responsibility to ensure their expats are sufficiently protected as the Thai program has diverted from a validated roadmap.

[weaver93]

Previously visitors to the UK, could not access the NHS.Now visitors to the UK, now receive a FREE covid 19 vaccination from the NHS budget.  However UK nationals who in most cases have paid over 30 year's National insurance contributions, and are still paying UK income tax,cannot receive a vaccination worth £3-4... because they are not currently residing in the UK. Some UK nationals have been offered a vaccination which has zero efficacy against the Delta variant. All I need is an Astra Zenica vaccination worth £3-4.  Is that too much to ask???

[theoldgit]

18 hours ago, weaver93 said:

Previously visitors to the UK, could not access the NHS.

 

That's not strictly correct, all visitors to the UK, including UK Nationals who are not normally resident in the UK, have always been able to access the NHS free at the point of delivery for emergency and certain other treatments, this has been extended to include Covid related issues, including vaccinations.  

[jayboy]

3 hours ago, theoldgit said:

 

That's not strictly correct, all visitors to the UK, including UK Nationals who are not normally resident in the UK, have always been able to access the NHS free at the point of delivery for emergency and certain other treatments, this has been extended to include Covid related issues, including vaccinations.  

Useful to know.I'm guessing that the route is via walk in facilities rather than GP surgeries where an NHS number is I think required.I lost touch with my NHS number decades ago though still have my National Insurance number.

 

May be of practical use to many of us assuming hassle free Thailand-UK travel opens up by early next year.Getting vaccinated in Thailand was a stress inducing pain in the proverbial.If a (3rd jab) booster is needed how much easier it would be to get it done in the UK.

[wordchild]

On 7/15/2021 at 6:55 AM, OJAS said:

On the contrary, the very opposite of the scenario which @richard_smith237envisages is the case in practice - namely those at the local level who are responsible for administering what pathetically passes for a vaccination scheme here in Thailand at the present time deciding to give the very highest priority to ensuring that all Thai nationals on their patch, regardless of their age and health risks, receive both their jabs before a single drop of vaccine finds its way into the arm of an elderly and vulnerable foreigner - as  alluded to in the Rayong example mentioned by @Eff1n2ret:-

 

https://xn--42cf4bzce1atwz0cyc7f1d.com/

 

 

 

This goes to the heart of the matter.

The British Consular Team's  position would be completely understandable in the context of a vaccine roll-out  (in Thailand) that was logistically challenged but was ,nevertheless and overall, being handled equitably and transparently , by the host country. 

This is simply not the case here.

In Thailand the clear, and overtly stated,   priorities for vaccination, are Thai people,   other racial groups can come  later. Such a  racially based policy, in an emergency situation such as this, ought to run counter to many of the values that the UK holds itself (and other nations) too.

 I would have expected the UK to be making a more forthright (and a more public challenge)  to the Thai Govt on behalf of UK citizens here.

Edited August 6, 2021 by wordchild

[OJAS]

On 8/6/2021 at 8:04 PM, wordchild said:

In Thailand the clear, and overtly stated,   priorities for vaccination, are Thai people,   other racial groups can come  later. Such a  racially based policy, in an emergency situation such as this, ought to run counter to many of the values that the UK holds itself (and other nations) too.

And would we be wise in assuming that non-Thai racial groups would, indeed, come later? What's to stop individual local health authorities deciding in the event to declare "Mission Accomplished" on mass vaccinations in their areas once each and every Thai national on their patch, regardless of age and state of health, had received both their jabs, despite whatever assurances the Embassy might have received to the contrary at the national level from their contacts in the Thai government?

Edited August 11, 2021 by OJAS

[Eff1n2ret]

13 hours ago, OJAS said:

What's to stop individual local health authorities deciding in the event to declare "Mission Accomplished" on mass vaccinations in their areas once each and every Thai national on their patch, regardless of age and state of health, had received both their jabs

One hopes they would have the common sense to realise that having a substantial sector of the population remaining unvaccinated would put their health system at risk at some stage, but who knows.

In Rayong Province the "Thais first" principle is being applied. A Kiwi neighbour who applied through their website (quoted in the British Consulate advisory) was given an appointment for yesterday. He went and was turned away - "Thai people only". This is a long-term resident, businessman, work permit, pays taxes. He said there was a group of Filipinos being given the same answer. Then later on, they must have rummaged round and found some Sinovac at the back of the fridge, because they phoned him up and offered him a shot of that. He had the impression that "Thais only" was an edict from on high, but the people doing the vaccinations were uncomfortable with that. In the meantime he had managed to arrange an appointment in Bangkok via the British Chamber of Commerce.

So, unless able to get on one of the programmes centred mainly on Bangkok, for many expats throughout Thailand getting vaccinated seems to be something of a lottery. The inert laisser-faire attitude of the British Government should be viewed in that light.