SURVEY: Is it time to abandon the Sandbox concept?

[RichardColeman]

16 months away from the family - but i vote shut it down, vaccinate everybody and open the whole country for all in January, after that, Thailand - and the rest of the world - should just run with it before any more damage is done. An announcement like that would allow many - including me - to plan and know where we all satnd

[davemos]

Probably time to abandon government concepts  lock down doesnt work .  move on  starvation  is a 100%  killer  ..No work ..no food 

[EricTh]

4 hours ago, gearbox said:

Why would they need to abandon it? The Delta variant is widespread here already, so unless the inter -provincial travel is banned it wouldn't matter much where the Delta comes from. In fact the overseas arrivals are less likely to be spreaders as they have more tests and a sort of minimal quarantine.

 

The Delta variant is not widespread yet. It is starting to grow in Bangkok and not Phuket.

 

The tourists are vaccinated against the UK variant and not the Indian variant so we'll see how things go...

 

 

 

[BookShe]

3 hours ago, digibum said:

Although I don’t want to wade into all of the Delta variant debates, it was always a bad idea.  
 

1.  The governor of Phuket recently made a comment about not being able to adequately staff the land checkpoint.  It was an off handed comment but how the heck do you have a sandbox with a porous border?  
 

2.  Allowing unvaccinated children into Thailand just makes zero sense. 

3.  This sandbox has nothing to do with average Thai people.  It’s all about the businesses and landlords.  It’s a Thai version of a corporate bailout with the locals being used as guinea pigs. 
 

4.  There are still tons of unvaccinated people in Phuket.  Anybody not registered as a resident isn’t eligible to get vaccinated.  That means a lot of people on tourist visas have been unable to get vaccines.  Recently, when they opened up registration for people to get vaccines, so many people tried to access the website they crashed it.  That means a lot of people are still unvaccinated.  That 70% number they’re quoting is not accurate.  
 

5.  There was never a published plan on how they will react if things go wrong.  Like, how do they shut down the sandbox?  How do they handle a sudden surge in infections?  How do they handle a sandbox passenger testing positive?  I’ve had better backup plans for small software deployments than the Phuket government seems to have for a major medical emergency.   
 

6.  Most of the new cases they’re seeing in Phuket are coming from Thais who are coming to Thailand from southern provinces.  Yet, there are no plans to address this.  Goes to my point #5 about not having a backup plan.  
 

7.  Possibly yet another extension of #5, the plans Phuket and TAT proposed last year (and we’re shot down by the CCSA) were so monumentally ill conceived that it’s hard for me to trust anyone in decision making in either of those two entities.  It was clearly apparent then that they didn’t care about the health of anybody and only cared about tourist revenue which makes me believe that the current plan is the absolute minimum they had to do to get the CCSA blessing and not the best that could be done.  
 

 

Whoa! This article should be published in every newspaper and online forums, as it sums up the problems and the inconsistencies perfectly. Two more points to it, if I may.

1, Unvaccinated locals can enter with a PCR test no older than 7 (SEVEN) days, but fully vaccinated tourists-expats must do 3 overpriced tests, the first one at arrival. Does it make any sense? This should be trated like AIDS tests. It's obsolate as soon as you left the testing station.

2, I guess the girls from Issaan are trying to get back to welcome the foreign arrivals. I'm sure they are fully vaccinated and could afford the PCR test. If they don't want to cross the bridge there's a 500meter waterways between the mainland and Phuket. Do they check this? I doubt it. But hey, whatever happens in the sandbox stays in the sandbox. Right Moronautin?

 

[billd766]

6 hours ago, Pedrogaz said:

It was a desperate move to quieten criticism of the government. Hence a shambles since only half wits were allowed to have input into it.

Where did they find enough halfwits?  ????

[sungod]

47 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

They are very simple to remove when necessary, I believe instructions are available for those less technically inclined…

Sounds like a barrel of laughs, may as well have a natter on the pavement.

[Bluespunk]

5 minutes ago, sungod said:

Sounds like a barrel of laughs, may as well have a natter on the pavement.

Go for it. 

[billd766]

49 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Stupid idea, we don't want foreign tourists until all Thais have been vaccinated. 

I am confused.

 

Who is the "We" you are referring to?

[BookShe]

Also don't forget that "four days until the reopening of Samui, Koh Pha Ngan and Koh Tao. Today, these three islands again reported zero infections with only four people in hospital."

 

Black Club in Samui is full almost every day. Hundreds of people are drinking (obviously no masks) You can enter Samui on a ferry without PCR tests, and yet zero cases reported for days and only a handful for months. How is this possible? Knowing that at least 3 flights are coming here from Bangkok every day. Bangkok Airways suspended most of its domestic flights except for Samui. They say it's a precautionary measure. They don't even fly to Phuket anymore to curb spreading the virus, but they still fly to Samui. How is this possible? Does it make any sense to someone? Is Samui really immune to this virus?

[samtam]

4 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

Not yet.  If I come back after my USA Vaccination trip I will opt for BKK ASQ.  At least in ASQ you know what will happen:

 

1) If I test positive then I go to the hospital

2) If someone in the hotel tests positive and I am not positive then I just stay holed up in my room

3) If someone on the same flight tests positive and I am not positive then I get to "enjoy" my room.  

 

ASQ sucks but at least I won't get the "someone in your flight tested positive so you will have to leave your sandbox hotel and go to a Quarantine Hotel".  

 

 

Also, there are not a plethora of direct flights into Phuket, so if you wish to return to Thailand, (Bangkok), you have to go through the current 14 day quarantine in an ASQ. Other countries seem to be managing this quarantine issue with much more flexibility and sensibly. If you've had all the tests, you're fully vaccinated etc, why 14 days incarceration? Why not reduce it, subject to self isolation, if you have a home here, with testing that will enable you to reduce it further?

[superal]

11 hours ago, Misty said:

I agree. Why not try an intermediary step first.  Not for tourists, but for returning, fully vaccinated long-term residents of Thailand.  Start off with quarantine. After one week, if everyone on the plane still tests negative, then allow this group to forgo further quarantine. 

 

That would serve two purposes.  It would help folks who are returning.  It would also provide a learning experience for the hospitality industry so that when conditions are right they can try to open up more fully.

 

Jumping right into tourism just seemed like a bad idea, both in practice as well as what it says to the rest of the country about priorities.

  Understand your point but if only expats are coming there will be very few flights and would be expensive . Your idea of 7 days was how it was supposed to be in the beginning but was opposed by others from different areas who were stuck with the 14 days . 

The big problem at the moment is the pcr test that has to be taken 72 hours before your flight . A lot can happen in 72 hours i.e. pick up an infection and be on a flight with hundreds of other innocent passengers who will be subject to quarantine .  Maybe the answer is to set up testing laboratories at airports where results can be processed in minutes prior to departure.  There is also some dodgy testing being carried out where fake negative test result certificates are issued ( as was the case in India recently with the exodus to the UK ) . Airport labs would stop this . As far as Phuket is concerned all workers / visitors should have had at least 2 jabs of AZ , Pfizer, JJ etc but not Sinovac or Sinapharm . Some Thai authorities seem to think 1 jab gives some protection .   If the Sandbox idea was properly managed / controlled it could work , however there is now a new problem as the Bangkok curfew starts , because Bangkok seems to be the hub of all provincial travel . Taxi from Phuket avoiding Bangkok may be an answer but there may be road blocks on your travel to your destination .

[Paradise Pete]

11 hours ago, Misty said:

I agree. Why not try an intermediary step first.  Not for tourists, but for returning, fully vaccinated long-term residents of Thailand.  Start off with quarantine. After one week, if everyone on the plane still tests negative, then allow this group to forgo further quarantine. 

That's exactly the sort of thing I'm waiting for. Lived there for more than a decade. Traveled to the US in Nov 2019 to visit family. Then everything happened and haven't been back yet. Now I'm fully vaxxed and waiting for the right circumstances.

[Scott]

Troll posts removed.

 

[Twin Peaks]

3 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

16 months away from the family - but i vote shut it down, vaccinate everybody and open the whole country for all in January, after that, Thailand - and the rest of the world - should just run with it before any more damage is done. An announcement like that would allow many - including me - to plan and know where we all satnd

I am in the same position as you. I have been waiting for the opportunity to return for the past year only to watch every scam and steal scheme fail or get abandoned. Get real vaccines in people and open up. How hard can this concept be? They have wasted away loads of time to get a meaningful vaccine in people and now are paying the price.

[digibum]

6 hours ago, 2long said:

Which countries are vaccinating children under ten?

Don’t know and don’t care.  
 

The idea of the sandbox was to create a relatively closed system that minimized the potential for tourists to infect the local population.  
 

If that means children are not allowed under the sandbox, so be it.  They can always enter under ASQ if need be.  

[bangon04]

11 hours ago, Captain Monday said:

All the authorities know how to do well is lock-downs and forced economic ruin. 

sorry but for a moment I thought the thread had suddenly changed to persecution of the Uighurs. But then I saw the sea in the background of the photo......

[Neeranam]

3 hours ago, billd766 said:

I am confused.

 

Who is the "We" you are referring to?

I mean the majority of Thai people, as determined by recent polls. 

[bangon04]

13 hours ago, Sheryl said:

They need to allow in only fully vaccinated people who received one of the vaccines that are effective against the variant.

 

Problem is that they are accepting people vaccinated only with Sinovac or Sinopharm. 

Do you subscribe to the view that any vaccine is still better than no vaccine at all?

 

Is there any reliable data regarding Siam Biosciences providing AZ vaccine in quantity? or are we still not allowed to talk about the apparent failure.......?

[Neeranam]

3 hours ago, billd766 said:

I am confused.

 

Who is the "We" you are referring to?

I mean the majority of Thai people, as determined by recent polls. 

[DrJack54]

4 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

vaccinate everybody and open the whole country for all in January,

Sounds like someone in a country where vaccination is relatively easy.

Thailand doesn't have vaccine supply last time I looked.

 

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

4 hours ago, billd766 said:

I am confused.

 

Who is the "We" you are referring to?

I mean the majority of Thai people, as determined by recent polls. 

 

Polls are very subjective and often preloaded toward are predetermined conclusions...

 

Same fundamental question asked in two different manners: For example... 

 

1) Are you happy with foreign Tourists coming to Phuket and risk spreading Covid-19 ?

2) Are you happy with foreign Tourists coming to Phuket and spending their money there ?

 

Most Thai’s would very likely say no to question 1 - it would be reported that Thai’s don’t want foreigners to come to Thailand at the moment. 

 

Most Thai’s would also very likely say yes to question 2 - it would be reported that Thai’s want foreigners to come to Thailand at the moment. 

 

I think you get my point.

 

I very rarely see truly objective polls anywhere, particularly in Thailand. The results of most polls are meaningless. 

 

 

 

[Neeranam]

12 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Polls are very subjective and often preloaded toward are predetermined conclusions...

 

Same fundamental question asked in two different manners: For example... 

 

1) Are you happy with foreign Tourists coming to Phuket and risk spreading Covid-19 ?

2) Are you happy with foreign Tourists coming to Phuket and spending their money there ?

 

Most Thai’s would very likely say no to question 1 - it would be reported that Thai’s don’t want foreigners to come to Thailand at the moment. 

 

Most Thai’s would also very likely say yes to question 2 - it would be reported that Thai’s want foreigners to come to Thailand at the moment. 

 

I think you get my point.

 

I very rarely see truly objective polls anywhere, particularly in Thailand. The results of most polls are meaningless. 

 

 

 

That is your right not to trust polls. 

I don't see the need to point out Thailand, especially if you come from the USA. 

[richard_smith237]

15 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

30 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Polls are very subjective and often preloaded toward are predetermined conclusions...

 

Same fundamental question asked in two different manners: For example... 

 

1) Are you happy with foreign Tourists coming to Phuket and risk spreading Covid-19 ?

2) Are you happy with foreign Tourists coming to Phuket and spending their money there ?

 

Most Thai’s would very likely say no to question 1 - it would be reported that Thai’s don’t want foreigners to come to Thailand at the moment. 

 

Most Thai’s would also very likely say yes to question 2 - it would be reported that Thai’s want foreigners to come to Thailand at the moment. 

 

I think you get my point.

 

I very rarely see truly objective polls anywhere, particularly in Thailand. The results of most polls are meaningless. 

 

 

 

Expand  

That is your right not to trust polls. 

I don't see the need to point out Thailand, especially if you come from the USA. 

 

I already singled out the USA on a forum called USAVisa.com, it recently changed its name to America Now... ????

 

 

 

Thailand was singled out because you ‘said’ WE (Thai’s) and then suggested that Thailand has polled that it doesn’t want foreign tourists (I’ve polls which support the return of tourists and of course polls which do not). 

 

How the poll is ‘delivered’ is of primary significance in securing genuine results, even the most obtuse will understand that. 

 

 

 

Edited July 11, 2021 by richard_smith237

[Tony125]

8 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

So Covid is nothing, it's not a pandemic, and the lack of vaccines here in Thailand mean nothing.  So you want the bars to open, and you want to be able to go out and party with the boys and let the world just get on with infecting itself and letting people die, really?  Are you that selfish, or is this just a trolling post.

Hundreds of Thai medical workers infected despite Sinovac vaccinations

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/hundreds-thai-medical-workers-infected-092123931.html

[gk10012001]

Vaccinated tourists should be allowed in after showing adequate proof of proper vaccination.  We can't be responsible for all the internal workings of Thailand.  Tourists and expats are willing to pay and meet some reasonable entry requirements.  Remember, there are still some diseases on the official lists that Thailand requires people to not have before entry.  It is in the fine print of many of the Visa applications, and rarely is proof asked for.  Put COVID on that, and be done with it.  Granted vaccinated people can still carry and even be actively infected with the vaccine, but to continue shutdowns, and lockdowns, and economic destruction is too draconian a measure

[jomtienisgood]

13 hours ago, LA8RAT said:

Myself I've always been a fan of the Swedish model. 

Personally I prefer Halle Berry.. 555555 

[jomtienisgood]

4 hours ago, gk10012001 said:

Vaccinated tourists should be allowed in after showing adequate proof of proper vaccination.  We can't be responsible for all the internal workings of Thailand.  Tourists and expats are willing to pay and meet some reasonable entry requirements.  Remember, there are still some diseases on the official lists that Thailand requires people to not have before entry.  It is in the fine print of many of the Visa applications, and rarely is proof asked for.  Put COVID on that, and be done with it.  Granted vaccinated people can still carry and even be actively infected with the vaccine, but to continue shutdowns, and lockdowns, and economic destruction is too draconian a measure

What is the point in putting something on a list if not looking or checking for????

[jacko45k]

16 hours ago, aBigSmile said:

Sorry, I don't trust any of the studies you cite.

Facts on the ground are that the Delta strain can breath through the Pfizer vaccine.  The Israeli Prime Minster admitted just that, and the government is now looking at "boosters." 

I go to look at the Israel figures and just don't see the issue... yes infection numbers are up slightly....but just 323 yesterday and deaths are very low. 

You want to see rising infection numbers from Delta, UK is much higher.... I would expect Pfizer numbers to also rise.

[gim12]

the sandpit scheme only allows vaccinated tourists in, why stop the program if the unvaccinated population is the biggest spreader of the virus,   only 3(?) tourists out of 2000(?) have tested positive so why prohibit their entry if they are not spreading it? 

[gim12]

a UK study on Pfizer and the delta variant showed.....One recent study showed the Pfizer vaccine was 84% effective against the variant after two doses, but only 34% effective after the first dose.