Thailand seeks 12 million Sinovac shots for mix-and-match vax strategy

[Tony125]

14 hours ago, MrJ2U said:

There is no data.

 

No other country is doing this stupid "Mix and Match" bulls***.

Wrong

Mix-and-match COVID vaccines: the case is growing, but questions remain

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01805-2

A slew of studies suggests that mixing vaccines provokes potent immune responses, but scientists still want answers on real-world efficacy and rare side effects.

A third study, by researchers at Saarland University in Homburg, Germany, found³ that the mixed regimen was better at eliciting an immune response than were two Oxford–AstraZeneca shots. It was also as good as or better than two shots of Pfizer–BioNTech.

[Pib]

18 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

Ah, ok, thanks, Pib.  

That actually makes bringing it up right now, even more mind-boggling, though.  LOL. 

 

Each year when the govt extends the VAT at only 7% vs letting it rise to the standard 10% the govt takes credit/gives itself a pat on the back for not increasing the cost of products/services....providing happiness to the people.

[stupidfarang]

14 hours ago, beachbuggy said:

Anyone seen the data proving this please

I think they are talking about AZ working after the first has failed so the statement is correct lol

[kiwikeith]

1 hour ago, wangotango said:

NRL at Eden Park ?

Yes-- believe it or not, the NRL wanted to have the grand final before a real crowd (they can't do that in Aussie at present) so they were weighing up to use ASB stadium (Eden Park) as it also can hold a huge crowd.

But since New Zealand went into lockdown last night that's not going to happen.

Incidentally, the strain that started this outbreak has been identified as an Aussie Delta strain.

So much for border control and the trans-tasman bubble, but I hope Souths win the final although the Storm looks to be it, other than Penrith,

Cheers. 

[RPCVguy]

1 hour ago, rickthompson said:

There is no data. Thailand is the first country trying this combination according to the article. How much testing could possibly have been done? More false bravado...

Well the multi quote didn't connect...
Back when the new policy was announced in July, the online version of NBT World posted a link on their Facebook page to a video that had graphics running too.
1) NBT World | Why is Thailand mix-matching vaccines? A video in English posted on Facebook by NBT World. Bar charts are at the 4:52 mark - worth pausing and considering. The Bar charts suggest a study was run, data generated. The problem is that I've yet to find the actual study or any peer review. Even what was posted only had an (n) of 36 and 2 for the 2 chosen policy options.

2) shortly afterwards The Nation posted an image with a slightly higher number of participants (75 and 35) which can be seen at:
https://www.nationthailand.com/in-focus/40003742

As people have noted, several nations have started with AZ as the first dose and then mixed with an mRNA. The Health Ministry in Canada does note that the minimum time between 1st and 2nd dose should still be observed for whatever was the 1st dose. That favors giving Sinovac first because it has the shortest time between doses. A study in Nature suggests mix-n-match has advantages
A ‘mix and match’ approach to SARS-CoV-2 vaccination | Nature Medicine

 

The bottom line is that people globally want vaccines that are in short supply, especially the mRNA varieties. Different nations chose different options early on as to which vaccines to order, but the people in each nation are in a race to get their immune system inoculated ASAP with the best they can get so as to best hope to fight the DELTA variant when it reaches them. I signed up on August 1st for the expatvac site, and have heard nothing from them since. They are definitely focused on the Bangkok area first. Last week, when my local district office offered a mass vaccination day, I got in line and got a jab of Sinovac. In 3 more weeks I'm scheduled for AZ. NEXT YEAR when my private hospital finally gets Moderna, I and my family here will pony up the cash and get those shots. IMO, the Thai medical system is doing the best they can with the options they have been given. I hope it will be enough.

 

 

[DaLa]

Anyone planning travel may wish to refer to my earlier post in:

 

Thailand  / Thailand News / Thai made AstraZeneca good for visits to France and Germany, says govt spokeswoman

 

To prove my point further. In the August 16th edition of the Express it has now been reported that the UK will only accept arrivals without quarantine to people who have received 2 jabs of the same vaccine.

[kiwikeith]

1 hour ago, wangotango said:

NRL at Eden Park ?

Yes-- believe it or not, the NRL wanted to have the grand final before a real crowd (they can't do that in Aussie at present) so they were weighing up to use ASB stadium (Eden Park) as it also can hold a huge crowd.

But since New Zealand went into lockdown last night that's not going to happen.

Incidentally, the strain that started this outbreak has been identified as an Aussie Delta strain.

So much for border control and the trans-tasman bubble, but I hope Souths win the final although the Storm looks to be it, other than Penrith,

Cheers. 

[vandeventer]

2 hours ago, kiwikeith said:

I heard that vaccine manufacturers were not recommending mix and match, many reports on overseas news.

But who knows Thailand may have done some research which proves otherwise.

It was reported that the efficacy of Pfizer  against Delta was 42%, Moderna was 86%, Astra was close to Pfizer. Pfizer are now recommending a third Delta booster shot.

Source RT today /Rick Sanchez.

It is well reported that Sino vac drops off after several weeks.

NZ went into lockdown level 4 last night with one spreader being a fully Pfizer vaccinated nurse.

They just linked the strain to Sydney, but not to one person as yet, thats still to come.

Now 7 cases since midnight, they suspect 50 to 100 out in the community.

RNZ news 2pm 18/8/2021.

Meanwhile people are panic buying toilet paper at supermarkets, travel bubble to cook islands closed, travel bubble to Aussie gone a few weeks now .

 

Don't think the NRL final will be played at Eden Park now ,with crowd, it will be in Aussie with background noise.

So if we got a AZ than a Pfizer than a Maderna toped up with another Pfizer Booster would we need a blood transfusion after 6 months?

[inThailand]

This is normal here.

Nothing here ever gets done the right way the first time. By the 3rd time it's f...ed.

[kiwikeith]

7 minutes ago, DaLa said:

Anyone planning travel may wish to refer to my earlier post in:

 

Thailand  / Thailand News / Thai made AstraZeneca good for visits to France and Germany, says govt spokeswoman

 

To prove my point further. In the August 16th edition of the Express it has now been reported that the UK will only accept arrivals without quarantine to people who have received 2 jabs of the same vaccine.

I think it has reached the point where highly vaccinated countries are seeing new waves of Delta breaking out.

So why go into MIQ if you've had 2 jabs of a vaccine that can not stop you being infected or transmitting Delta (this just happened in NZ a fully vaccinated nurse 2x shots of pfizer is infected and transmitting Delta) now we are in lockdown.

India's population now showing covid antibodies ,67% of them at the last count.

The have a very low vaccination rate.

So you enter XXX country vaccinated, you can get infected as it's all over the place and you can transmit it , but you may not die or need so much health care.

So  open the gates, that seems to be the idea, it's out of control world wide and if India is an example I think vaccination which now looks to be unable to control Delta may fade out and Herd immunity will prevail, just as it did with the Spanish flue-- no vaccine for that and it died. 

[Chongalulu]

So you’ve had your first shot of Sinovac on the understanding it gives you access to the AZ second shot ,thus you compromise. Then when the time comes for follow up AZ …'Sorry,no hab..but here another sinocrap for you'. ????. Saw this coming when the wife and I were invited for the vaccination at local medical centre . Turned us both round and walked her out. Angry ???? 

[djayz]

14 hours ago, gearbox said:

It could be also that countries like Thailand are tossed at the back of the queue all the time.

Or maybe countries which have a habit of forgetting to pay their bills might only be offered cash in advance options, which they might not be able to afford. 

[55Jay]

51 minutes ago, Pib said:

Each year when the govt extends the VAT at only 7% vs letting it rise to the standard 10% the govt takes credit/gives itself a pat on the back for not increasing the cost of products/services....providing happiness to the people.

Very benevolent of them. ????

Makes more sense now with background/context.  Thanks.

 

[fondue zoo]

<deleted> why? 

 

At a guess an idea thought up in a meeting to increase the vaccinated numbers for the media with a vaccine now more easily obtainable.

Edited August 18, 2021 by fondue zoo

[RPCVguy]

18 minutes ago, kiwikeith said:

I think it has reached the point where highly vaccinated countries are seeing new waves of Delta breaking out.

So why go into MIQ if you've had 2 jabs of a vaccine that can not stop you being infected or transmitting Delta (this just happened in NZ a fully vaccinated nurse 2x shots of pfizer is infected and transmitting Delta) now we are in lockdown.

India's population now showing covid antibodies ,67% of them at the last count.

The have a very low vaccination rate.

So you enter XXX country vaccinated, you can get infected as it's all over the place and you can transmit it , but you may not die or need so much health care.

So  open the gates, that seems to be the idea, it's out of control world wide and if India is an example I think vaccination which now looks to be unable to control Delta may fade out and Herd immunity will prevail, just as it did with the Spanish flue-- no vaccine for that and it died. 

It is not out of control world wide, but it is spreading too rapidly for hospitals to handle in some places like from Florida to Texas in the USA. Vaccine control is desired but is currently insufficient. Mask and social distancing control is the viable option until vaccinations can get to enough people to avoid the consequences of Delta in unvaccinated people - children are at the mercy of the adults around them.

[Tony125]

10 minutes ago, nchuckle said:

So you’ve had your first shot of Sinovac on the understanding it gives you access to the AZ second shot ,thus you compromise. Then when the time comes for follow up AZ …'Sorry,no hab..but here another sinocrap for you'. ????. Saw this coming when the wife and I were invited for the vaccination at local medical centre . Turned us both round and walked her out. Angry ???? 

So you rather walk around  unvaccinated  because you didn't think they would give you AZ or Pfizer booster for second shot. All the health workers had 2 shots of Sinovac and are now getting Pfizer booster from the US donated 1.5 mil Pfizer stock. You could have taken even 2 shots of Sinovac with partial protection and then got a booster of Pfizer, AZ or Moderna when available. Oh well you body your choice.

 

[crazyfalang]

The Test kits cannot detect Variants.. Even the Inventor Said This.. Duh..

[kiwikeith]

31 minutes ago, RPCVguy said:

It is not out of control world wide, but it is spreading too rapidly for hospitals to handle in some places like from Florida to Texas in the USA. Vaccine control is desired but is currently insufficient. Mask and social distancing control is the viable option until vaccinations can get to enough people to avoid the consequences of Delta in unvaccinated people - children are at the mercy of the adults around them.

I suggest you look at Australia news, aussie is a nut house now, NZ following suit with protestors in the streets today against lockdown, Delta can not be controlled, wait and watch NZ break out all over as the transmitters have been to casinos ,pubs cafes everywhere even the Auckland Hospital .

[natway09]

Desperation setting in. 

They may be lucky, it may just work

[oldcpu]

16 hours ago, beachbuggy said:

Anyone seen the data proving this please

Since you asked ...  although this may not be the study referred to, but it is one in progress that says the same thing.  I've posted this a few times already on this forum, so my apologies for those who have seen it already - but it reads like many have not seen it.

 

The article referencing the on-going study is in a Thai language news source:  https://mgronline.com/qol/detail/9640000072391   ... perhaps if one is curious to read, the Chrome browser will provide an automatic translation.

 

Here is a chart from that study ... please note the Pfizer plot should be ignored as it has insufficient data to illustrate the Pfizer COVID vaccine is a superior vaccine (at least I believe it to be superior). .... Note in the image below, that clearly 1xSinovac + 1xAstraZenec is very similar to getting 2xAstraZeneca in terms of Anti-body count.

 

 

[oldcpu]

1 hour ago, stupidfarang said:

I think they are talking about AZ working after the first has failed so the statement is correct lol

No - actually there is a study (see above).

[Srikcir]

Didn't the government recently recommend for medical workers vaccinated with SV followed by AZ to get a Pfizer booster?

[club]

2 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Didn't the government recently recommend for medical workers vaccinated with SV followed by AZ to get a Pfizer booster?

Thought Pfizer Booster was for people with 2 jabs Sinovac. That's what most medical workers got

[oldcpu]

3 hours ago, IamNoone88 said:

So if;

 

sinovac + sinovac = low efficacy vs Delta

sinovac + Astra Zenica = Better efficacy

Then, by deduction, Astra Zenica + Astra Zenica = Even better efficacy

Actually, according to an on-going study, 1xSinovac+1xAstraZeneca is almost as good in Anti-body count, as 2xAstraZeneca.  While I personally believe 2xAstraZeneca is better with marginally better anti-body count, I note 'politically' AstraZeneca (2 jabs) is more accepted globally than a Sinovac/AstraZeneca mix - although even two AstraZeneca (from Thailand) is not accepted by all countries (such as not yet accepted by the EMA (European Medical Association)).

 

Further, also note, Thailand can not get the amount of AstraZeneca it wants from the local Thai AstraZeneca production (as that facility has contracts to deliver AstraZeneca produced in Thailand to other Asian countries).

 

Further, other than the USA donation, Thailand can not get foreign produced mRNA vaccines now, and at most might get some in Q4-2021 or Q1-2022.  How many people will die waiting for Q1-2022??

 

Further even if Thailand could get more AstraZeneca, it is 8 to 12 weeks between jabs.  In contrast, mixing Sinovac + AstraZeneca is 3 to 4 weeks between jabs - ie mixing can be applied quicker for similar efficacy to 2xAstraZeneca - and mixing will likely thus save lives.

 

So since Thailand can get Sinovac now, then by combining 1-Sinovac + 1-AstraZeneca, Thailand can vaccinate faster more of its population.

 

Do I think Pfizer/Moderna would be better ? Of course !!

 

Is Pfizer/Moderna available now in Thailand?  No. 

 

What is the use of a vaccine if it is not available?

Edited August 18, 2021 by oldcpu

[RPCVguy]

16 minutes ago, kiwikeith said:

I suggest you look at Australia news, aussie is a nut house now, NZ following suit with protestors in the streets today against lockdown, Delta can not be controlled, wait and watch NZ break out all over as the transmitters have been to casinos ,pubs cafes everywhere even the Auckland Hospital .

You've pointed out that people can behave in an out of control manner. The 1918 flu was dealt with by masks and social distancing. Today there are many people who feel that natural processes should not be allowed to influence their behavior. Vaccines can advance the process of gaining freedom,but the behavior of people as a community is step #1.

[Seeall]

17 hours ago, Caldera said:

Madness. 

Politcal drivel.....   ask any thai they will just laugh... would be nice one day the thai people can have a decent goverment..

[oldcpu]

6 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Didn't the government recently recommend for medical workers vaccinated with SV followed by AZ to get a Pfizer booster?

Even Pfizer and Moderna, are recommending to people who received 2 of their jabs, to go get a booster of their jabs.

[Mavideol]

17 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

"A first shot of Sinovac follow by AstraZeneca significantly boosts immunity," said Chawetsan Namwat, a senior health official at the Department of Disease Control.

does he has any supporting  Reliable data to support such comment or is it just his opinion and trying to divert people's attention from the real poor handling of the pandemic

Edited August 18, 2021 by Mavideol

[mommysboy]

The Sinovac is an ok vaccine, and a booster shot of it or another vaccine will do the job.

 

The Pfizer vaccine is ok too, probably very good, but isn't worth waiting for imo.

 

Go with what you are offered.

 

 

[DBath]

15 hours ago, JimGant said:

Many other countries are showing interest in this approach, as the potential benefit seems to outweigh any potential harm.... What's to lose in this madhouse environment?

Had a Sinovac jab two weeks ago, and will have an AstraZeneca jab next week. Will let you know if I grow a second penis.

The fact that you don’t know if you’ll grow one or not is concerning by itself.