8 hours ago, ogb said:

What if they ended up being one of the unlucky ones who died from the vaccine?

The decision on whether to take these vaccines should be a personal decision and each person needs to weigh up the risks - for example, New Zealand has had as many deaths from the Pfizer vaccine this year as it has from covid.

That is such a wild statement, I must ask you for your source of information.

9 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

As I was saying.

Time to rest your case.

28 minutes ago, Nojohndoe said:

Check where the research and development was done . Trump had no connection other than guaranteeing orders or with Moderna also providing up front cash.

I think you have been disinformed. 

 

Oxford got $1,200,000,000 for research. I could go on but it would take a little effort and it's pointless. 

 

Have you accepted Jesus Christ as your lord and savior?

 

Who are you going to vote for in the upcoming election?

 

Are you a vegetarian or a meat eater?

 

Have you gotten the jab yet?

 

I’ll take “conversations not worth having” for $1000 Alex.

 

1 hour ago, Ryan754326 said:

So what percentage should be the new target? What happens if that number still isn’t enough?
Aiming for 100% is unrealistic, especially when we haven’t even approved the vaccines for children yet. 
 

I have no issue with localized lockdowns and mask mandates when hospitals are overwhelmed, but that hasn’t been the case in my area for quite a while now. 
At this point, any further restrictions should be based on available hospital capacity, not case numbers.

You ask me what the new target should be and then gripe about it being 100%.

 

I suggest you go ask the people you are getting your 100% from or go and see what your own government has to say about the measures they are putting in place.

 

 

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

Yeah, old Fauci keeps flip-flopping and moving the goal-posts...

 

Apparently he's down (or up depending on when you last looked) to 70-85%

 

 

 

 

New virus strain with higher infection rate.

 

Adjusting medical advice accordingly is not ‘flip flopping’.

It should be remembered for all those people who implicitly trust doctors and scientists and what they're telling people about the efficacy and safety of the vaccine, medical knowledge and practice has a very short half-life. In the 1980s medical knowledge half-life was only 7 years and currently it's reported as only 2 years.
For example, if, as a conservative estimate, you take the 1980s figure of 7 years, half of all the medical knowledge currently known today and held to be true will no longer be in use in 7 years time due to variously, better medicines or procedures coming along, they're not found to work, or they're actually found to be dangerous.
This can be compared to some of the other sciences eg Physics, where knowledge from centuries past eg Newton's laws of motion and gravity, Einstein's theories of relativity still hold true today.
As an example, up until as late as the 1980s, doctors used to give lobotomies for eg depression where they drill holes in the skull and sever connecting nerves in the brain. It was touted as a miracle cure at the time, despite patients being left as vegetables.
Some very conspicuous failures, including a lobotomy that reduced John F. Kennedy's elder sister, Rosemary, to a near-vegetative state, helped turn public opinion against the surgery and it went out of favour.
Another example is tonsil surgery. In the 1960s in the UK, it was a very popular operation for children. Children were always having their tonsils whipped out on some pretext. Nowadays it's much rarer.
Also to be remembered is the thalidomide scandal in the 1950/60s where pregnant women were encouraged by doctors to take the drug for morning sickness with tragic results.
A more recent example is the vioxx recall.

7 minutes ago, katana said:

It should be remembered for all those people who implicitly trust doctors and scientists and what they're telling people about the efficacy and safety of the vaccine, medical knowledge and practice has a very short half-life. In the 1980s medical knowledge half-life was only 7 years and currently it's reported as only 2 years.
For example, if, as a conservative estimate, you take the 1980s figure of 7 years, half of all the medical knowledge currently known today and held to be true will no longer be in use in 7 years time due to variously, better medicines or procedures coming along, they're not found to work, or they're actually found to be dangerous.
This can be compared to some of the other sciences eg Physics, where knowledge from centuries past eg Newton's laws of motion and gravity, Einstein's theories of relativity still hold true today.
As an example, up until as late as the 1980s, doctors used to give lobotomies for eg depression where they drill holes in the skull and sever connecting nerves in the brain. It was touted as a miracle cure at the time, despite patients being left as vegetables.
Some very conspicuous failures, including a lobotomy that reduced John F. Kennedy's elder sister, Rosemary, to a near-vegetative state, helped turn public opinion against the surgery and it went out of favour.
Another example is tonsil surgery. In the 1960s in the UK, it was a very popular operation for children. Children were always having their tonsils whipped out on some pretext. Nowadays it's much rarer.
Also to be remembered is the thalidomide scandal in the 1950/60s where pregnant women were encouraged by doctors to take the drug for morning sickness with tragic results.
A more recent example is the vioxx recall.

So your argument against medical science is the rapid rate of development medical science is undergoing.

 

I assume the vaccine is being given to pregnant women. That's a tough one. Give an experimental drug to an expectant mother.  And yes just because the FDA approved Phizer it's still in it's experimental phase.

11 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

New virus strain with higher infection rate.

 

Adjusting medical advice accordingly is not ‘flip flopping’.

More from Vox?

6 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

I assume the vaccine is being given to pregnant women. That's a tough one. Give an experimental drug to an expectant mother.  And yes just because the FDA approved Phizer it's still in it's experimental phase.

It's no longer experimental and to  say as much makes you an anti-vaxer.

 

6 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So your argument against medical science is the rapid rate of development medical science is undergoing.

 

No one is arguing against medical science. Again, please try to follow along.

17 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You ask me what the new target should be and then gripe about it being 100%.

 

I suggest you go ask the people you are getting your 100% from or go and see what your own government has to say about the measures they are putting in place.

 

 

I was being hypothetical when I said 100%. 
Fauci is apparently now saying that 90% is the new magic number. If that fails, 100% seems like the next logical conclusion.

 

 

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

I think you have been disinformed. 

 

Oxford got $1,200,000,000 for research. I could go on but it would take a little effort and it's pointless. 

 

AstraZenica received $1.2Billion at the start of ‘Phase 3 Trials’.

 

Thanks for the handout but it don’t get your name on the vaccine.

 

It didn’t secure first rights to the vaccine either, the British Government were a bit to sly for that.

 

 

45 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

It's no longer experimental and to  say as much makes you an anti-vaxer.

 

It's the truth, I'll take the vaccine but understand it's still experimental. 

55 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

It's no longer experimental and to  say as much makes you an anti-vaxer.

 

The EUA for the current pfizer vaccine has been extended. That mean Emergency Use Authorization, in case some don't know. The only vaccine that has been approved is the BioNTech Manufacturing GmbH for COMIRNATY. See if you can find the Comirnaty vaccine anywhere! They approved a vaccine that is not available at the moment. But extended the Pfizer vaccine like before. What's the deal with that? So I think perhaps it is still experimental. Does this make me an anti-vaxer now?

 

I sat back & read as much research as I could. Truth is, we don't know nothin' yet.

 

Not only is this a gigantic human experiment, increasingly it's a social experiment, too. Everyone jabbed save a few will fundamentally change how we interact.

 

The medium- & long-term health consequences, of both Covid & the vaccines, won't be known for years, if not decades.

 

Vaccines are no panacea. Scientists (including my son at J&J) figure we're all going to catch Covid at some point. The oldies & immunocompromised (me, on both counts) are most vulnerable.

 

So I'm AZed. mRNA was just too big a leap for me. I'll be esp glad once there are effective treatments for Covid...and boosters targetting mutations.

44 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

AstraZenica received $1.2Billion at the start of ‘Phase 3 Trials’.

 

Thanks for the handout but it don’t get your name on the vaccine.

 

It didn’t secure first rights to the vaccine either, the British Government were a bit to sly for that.

 

 

You said they got nothing....

 

Have to start calling you Fauci....

2 hours ago, mahjongguy said:

That is such a wild statement, I must ask you for your source of information.

If you mean the NZ info., it appears ogb took from the news this week of just one death linked to the Pfizer vaccine but no deaths from Covid in NZ this year so far.  While hiding the statistics, you could even get away with saying "there were more deaths from the Pfizer vaccine than from Covid" because 'zero deaths' is a valid description upon which to base an assertion and the extremely low statistic is hidden. Of course, hiding extremely low statistics in this way makes a claim misleading and invalid.

16 minutes ago, 300sd said:

The EUA for the current pfizer vaccine has been extended. That mean Emergency Use Authorization, in case some don't know. The only vaccine that has been approved is the BioNTech Manufacturing GmbH for COMIRNATY. See if you can find the Comirnaty vaccine anywhere! They approved a vaccine that is not available at the moment. But extended the Pfizer vaccine like before. What's the deal with that? So I think perhaps it is still experimental. Does this make me an anti-vaxer now?

 

Yes, everyone that is not 100% for mandating everyone in the world be vaccinated whether they like it or not is a anti-vaxer, even after you've been vaccinated. Probably makes you a racist as well....

7 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Yes, everyone that is not 100% for mandating everyone in the world be vaccinated whether they like it or not is a anti-vaxer, even after you've been vaccinated. Probably makes you a racist as well....

I’m sorry if I worded my opening post poorly.

 

This thread is not meant to be an invite for you to air your bag of mixed grievances.

 

 

7 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I’m sorry if I worded my opening post poorly.

 

This thread is not meant to be an invite for you to air your bag of mixed grievances.

 

 

Apology accepted. Please try to be more clear in the future. 

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

I think you have been disinformed. 

 

Oxford got $1,200,000,000 for research. I could go on but it would take a little effort and it's pointless. 

 

Oxford? AZ ?

3 hours ago, Ryan754326 said:

Who says 90%? 
 

Indefinite booster program? For the whole world? That doesn’t sound very feasible, but at least big pharma will make a ton of money trying. 
 

If that doesn’t work, I guess we’ll have to shoot for 110%. 

I know what you mean. How could 90% ever be reached for any vaccine? With a few minor exceptions like polio, smallpox, measles, mumps...

If only there were a vaccine against anti-vax lunacy.

1 minute ago, Nojohndoe said:

Oxford? AZ ?

While there may be one in Arizona, I was talking about the one in England.  

 

 

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

While there may be one in Arizona, I was talking about the one in England.  

 

 

Which had any connection to Trump?

I see often you lose the thread of your debate in the complexity of the contortions of fact or presentation of.

Wax on all you wish.

On 9/1/2021 at 2:29 AM, Jeffr2 said:

Most who are anti vaxxers aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer. That's my personal experience.

 

Extremely hard to change their minds. Luckily, they'll soon be stuck at home as it's becoming harder and harder to avoid the jab. Luckily!

 

12 hours ago, l4ml4m said:

Nobody not totally insane would change his mind.

I am living almost 2 years with covid around but didn't get it, so there is no reason that I get it later, especially when all the "real men" are vaccinated, so I am still sure that I will never vaccinate.

 

 

12 hours ago, l4ml4m said:

 

poor you if you think that luck is only what people who do not get covid have !

 

but it's wrong ! unlike many contaminated we have a brain ! we are able to protect ourselves ! THERE IS NOBODY who got covid when respecting the rules, this is pure BS and people saying this should be jailed without notice !

 

 

@Jeffr2; QED!

22 minutes ago, Nojohndoe said:

Which had any connection to Trump?

I see often you lose the thread of your debate in the complexity of the contortions of fact or presentation of.

Wax on all you wish.

Are you an English teacher? 

 

We were taking about funding for vaccinations and the money that Oxford received.

 

What are you talking about?

 

Wax off...

3 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Yeah, old Fauci keeps flip-flopping and moving the goal-posts...

 

Apparently he's down (or up depending on when you last looked) to 70-85%

 

 

 

 

Imagine changing one's mind when new data/science is presented. Oh the horror, sounds downright intelligent!

Why can't he do like a certain subset of the population and just pick something that suits his bias and damn the science! 

 

Marge! Bring me the UV light and a double shot of Clorox!!

12 hours ago, DavidSSaville said:

am taking Ivermectin, zinc, vitamin c,d and one a day and also have at my disposal a nebulizer with food grade h2o2 and Acetylcysteine.

 

Why?

 

Ivermectin is for parasites.