Life in Thailand possible without the Vaccine?

[ripstanley]

8 pages and no response by the poster who has made 1 post on TV. What a successful troll.

Edited September 13, 2021 by ripstanley

[Puccini]

On 9/12/2021 at 6:52 AM, Ralf001 said:

...Iam an anti-vaxxer but have had my first jab..... Whilst I dislike experimental vaccines I do like my job and the choice of get vaccinated or get fired.... I reluctantly chose the former.

I understand that "More than 5.71 billion doses have been administered across 184 countries" and the experiments are continuing.

Source: https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/

[KhaoYai]

20 hours ago, LeatFingies said:

One thing I’ve noticed on this forum is a huge lack of intelligence from the members. Virtually everyone on this forum is pro vaccine, pro totalitarian government, no questions asked. 

Then I doubt you actually read this forum.  Yes, most are pro-vaccine but that's reflected in most societies. Pro totalitarian government - now that's where I doubt you actually read this forum.  Most posters that I see do not support this government and are highy critical of it.

[Scott]

Inflammatory post removed. 

 

[KhaoYai]

15 hours ago, ericbj said:

No one has identical genes.  Some may be lucky, others not.  Some vaccine injuries take time to develop.  With Covid-19 we are in uncharted territory.

Oh jeez.  Is this the latest AV answer to the millions that have had their vaccine without a problem? So when, as the vast majority do, people report either no problems or mild flu-like symptoms etc. You're answer is that we are going to have problems in the future?

 

The overwhelming body of evidence both scientific and real world is that being vaccinated against Covid 19 substantially reduces your chances of being infected. Those who are vaccinated but do get infected have a very high degree of protection from developing severe illness and death.

 

In life, we all have various beliefs and stances - sometimes we are wrong, sometimes we're right.  The majority, when faced with evidence, back down and accept they are wrong.  AV's on the other hand, simply modify their story.

 

If you don't wish to be vaccinated then at the moment, in most countries, that's your right.  However, unless you have scientific, tested proof of your claims, it would be much nicer if you keep them to yourself.  If just 1 person reads your claims, is influenced by them and refuses to be vaccinated as a result, they could die if they catch the virus.

 

That said, I agree, we are in unchartered territory but the vaccines, certainly those made in the West, underwent mass trials before being put out.  People with far greater knowledge than you or I reviewed the trial data before approving the products. Covid 19 has killed millions and continues to do so but those of us lucky enough to have been fully vaccinated now have a very high level of protection.

 

Just look at the situation in the UK where around 80% of the adult population are now fully vaccinated. I'll quote you some official figures but would firstly state that they are not 100% comparable due to incomplete data but they show a massive difference now that so many of the population are vaccinated.

 

January was the peak of the current wave in the UK and we are now experiencing high infection levels once again due to the delta variant. I've picked 2 comparable dates. The difference between January and now is huge.

 

7 day average number of infections on 19 January 34,257

7 day average number of deaths on 19 January 1,286

People who had 1 dose of vaccine by 19 January 4,609,740

People who had 2 doses of vaccine by 19 January 460,625

 

7 day average number of infections on 5 September 36,982

7 day average number of deaths on 5 September 129

People who had 1 dose of vaccine by 5 September 48,279,113

People who'd had 2 doses of vaccine by 5 September 43,455,083

 

Sources:

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/cases

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinations

 

I have not tried to hide anything by using 5 September instead of today - 5 September is the latest date that the averages are available.

 

1286 deaths down to 129. If that doesn't convince you to get vaccinated, nothing will and I wish you good luck.

Edited September 13, 2021 by KhaoYai

[Scott]

16 hours ago, ericbj said:

No one has identical genes.  Some may be lucky, others not.  Some vaccine injuries take time to develop.  With Covid-19 we are in uncharted territory.

Please provide us with evidence that there are conditions which develop long after a vaccine.  I can't find any long term effects from any vaccine.   Vaccines do not cause autism.  

Any problem with vaccines usually occur rather quickly after the vaccine.  Allergic reactions take about 15 minutes.   Issues related to the rare blood clots happen within days or weeks.  

The mRNA technology has been around since the 90's and used in vaccine trials long before Covid with no long term negative effects.   But if the mRNA scares you, there are a number of the traditional vaccines available that may be somewhat less effective, but will still provide adequate protection from getting infected or seriously ill.  

 

Here's a little on the subject:   https://www.paho.org/en/topics/immunization/debunking-immunization-myths

 

 

[rabang]

It is depressing what a prison people are creating of the world for themselves, willingly and even demanding for more strict measures and control in the name of freedom. It is completely absurd! If a virus is from China we don't have to bring a Chinese system as well. How do people with kids justify and explain creating this dystopia to their children? Just get vaccinated if you feel like, if not, it should not be anyone else's business.

[atpeace]

18 hours ago, mikebike said:

Well... many people bought a Pinto or Bobcat back in the day... 3.4 million people bought an exploding car.

The fact that only Hugo hit the confused button is very telling.  Delusional and only capable of one possibility - "his".

 

It would be so refreshing to discuss new information and possibilities in lieu arguing for your team.  Vaccines are surely not perfect and the Covid policies are flawed.  I'm cool with the anti-vax crowd as long as they don't feel compelled to make silly rationalizations.  Even open to the possibility that being an anti-vax proponent is noble.  Freedom of choice is something I take seriously!

[placeholder]

19 hours ago, ericbj said:

No one has identical genes.  Some may be lucky, others not.  Some vaccine injuries take time to develop.  With Covid-19 we are in uncharted territory.

Which vaccine injuries take time to develop? And how much time would that be? 1 month? 1 year? 10 years? Got any actual figures which are the results of actual research to back up your claim?

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, atpeace said:

  Even open to the possibility that being an anti-vax proponent is noble.  Freedom of choice is something I take seriously!

Tell that to the people in Idaho and Washington:

Idaho’s COVID crisis becomes Washington hospitals’ problem

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/northwest/idahos-covid-crisis-is-straining-hospitals-across-the-border-in-washington/

Maybe if these vaccine refuseniks agreed not to go to a hospital when they became seriously ill, you might have a defensible position about their nobility. But the hospitals are being unnecessarily overloaded because of the selfishness of those who refuse to take the covid vaccine.

And, of course, ICU and intensive care overload isn't confined just to Idaho and Washington

 

[atpeace]

58 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

Troll of the year? Days later still only 1 post. 

Troll or not it is a good question. Not being vaccinated is going to have consequences.  Can the inti-vaxers live with those consequences is an interesting question.

 

The Resort owner literally just left and told me he just informed a Canadian he wasn't welcome because of his anti-vax position which the Canadian shared for some odd reason.  The Canadian and the resort owner were making decisions based on personal freedom of choice.  No shouting or threats were involved and it seems both moved on with there daily agenda.

[placeholder]

If you mean that they have the legal right to not to get vaccinated, sure. But morality isn't about legality, is it? And we know that the unvaccinated are mostly responsible for the huge overload in ICUs and intensive care. People are dying and suffering unnecessarily because of people who refuse to be vaccinated.

 

As sociologists have pointed out, the opinion anti-vaxxers care about is the opinion of others in the group they identify with. In the USA this is  mostly composed of people with right-wing views.

 

There's a phenomenon in the Internet called "concern trolling". Basically it has to do with certain people pretending to be on one side of the issue, in this case by claiming to be pro-vax, but then inserting all sort of qualifications and even contradictions that undermine the persona that they are attempting to project. Like claiming, anti-vaxxers are noble.

 

There's nothing noble neither about ignorance, particularly willful ignorance, nor about selfishness.

 

Or like claiming that I'm wrong on this issue is in the realm of possibilities. And, of course, in this case "I" means "we". "We" being virtually the entire scientific community. So, sure, it's possible... Just as it's possible I'm going to win the next lottery. Actually, that's probably more likely.  But just because the prospect of something is possible, that doesn't make that possibility a realistic expectation. And invoking it as a serious consideration, is, at best, misguided.

[Kanada]

7 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

Then I doubt you actually read this forum.  Yes, most are pro-vaccine but that's reflected in most societies. Pro totalitarian government - now that's where I doubt you actually read this forum.  Most posters that I see do not support this government and are highy critical of it.

Who in the holy —— cares what a Thai Visa poster supports!

You guys just don’t seem to get it…you’re visitors here…you are not Thai so nobody gives a rats ass what you support or what you believe or what you write (or should they).

You didn’t have any pull in your own country and you have even less than that here! Sit back and enjoy the sun…you are not now and never will be important in Thailand!

[Will B Good]

1 minute ago, Kanada said:

Who in the holy —— cares what a Thai Visa poster supports!

You guys just don’t seem to get it…you’re visitors here…you are not Thai so nobody gives a rats ass what you support or what you believe or what you write (or should they).

You didn’t have any pull in your own country and you have even less than that here! Sit back and enjoy the sun…you are not now and never will be important in Thailand!

Not as individuals, true.

 

En mass there will be concerns insofar as we possess (some) money and how that can be transferred into the Thai economy.

[placeholder]

Just now, Kanada said:

Who in the holy —— cares what a Thai Visa poster supports!

You guys just don’t seem to get it…you’re visitors here…you are not Thai so nobody gives a rats ass what you support or what you believe or what you write (or should they).

You didn’t have any pull in your own country and you have even less than that here! Sit back and enjoy the sun…you are not now and never will be important in Thailand!

Like most members here I believe that not just the Thai government, but even most governments in the world, depend on our advice and counsel. But if you believe otherwise, that this forum's collective input is entirely irrelevant to the outcome of world affairs, why are you bothering to post here? Or do you believe  that the it's you alone that the government pays heed to? Which I guess would explain why you continue to post. 

[jvjv]

Beautiful topic!

I know about 20 Thai who all 20 do not wish to take the vaccine while they could just get it by making an appointment.
And here I read several posts about how all those people want it but cannot get it. Even if it is true in some cases, it shows how we live with very different perceptions of the same situation. How interesting!

Regarding the original OP post.. As others said, I would certainly not be surprised if you need something like a vaccine passport (for visa extensions, for entering the country, etc..). So there is not a lot of hope for the scenario you like to see...

[Jeffr2]

It's their choice if they stay out of society and isolate at home. Otherwise, they are a danger to all.

 

Time to take a hard stance against those who refuse the vaccine for no good reason. We want to get past this and won't until more are vaccinated. Spreading their misinformation helps no one.

Edited September 14, 2021 by onthedarkside
quote of hidden post removed

[metisdead]

A post with a link to an unapproved YouTube source has been removed:

 

18) Social Media content is acceptable in most social forums. However, in factual areas such as news, current affairs and health topics, it cannot be used unless it is from a credible news media source or government agency, and must include a weblink to the original source.

 

[Jeffr2]

Thais are lining up and begging for the vaccine. They care. Sad you don't. Makes the rest of us expats who care look bad.

Edited September 14, 2021 by onthedarkside
quote of hidden post removed

[hotandsticky]

Just now, Jeffr2 said:

Thais are lining up and begging for the vaccine. They care. Sad you don't. Makes the rest of us expats who care look bad.

 

 

To be fair, the Thais weren't begging for the vaccine at first. At least not in rural areas - most had the fear of God put into them by social media focus on vaccine side-effects.

 

The third wave (which in reality was only really the first wave) was a bit of a wake up call  - and, in fairness, central and local government initiatives have helped to change the mindset.

[xylophone]

14 hours ago, ericbj said:

If you shut yourself off from alternative or complementary medicine you may be doing yourself or someone close a great disservice at some future moment.

I think perhaps you missed the point as far as I'm concerned, as I don't shut myself off from alternative or complementary medicines, and am willing to try them if they have been proven to work, whereas ivermectin has been dismissed in so many trials, by the vast majority of the medical profession, that posting about it as cure for Covid 19 is just a nonsense.

 

Indeed I have tried alternative medicines/methods when I have been desperate, including a visit to a faith healer to cure my very painful and debilitating back, as well as acupuncture for arm pain, and natural medicines for prostate problems, all to no avail I'm afraid.

 

My extremely painful and debilitating back problem was fixed by a spinal manipulative physiotherapist in NZ, a member of the medical profession. The acupuncture did nothing for my painful forearm, and only an operation on the joint (conventional medicine) eased the pain.

 

My prostate problems were supposed to have been cured by a TURP, and now I'm having problems again so I have turned to alternative medicines, but again, to no avail.

 

I too have worked in the jungle of Nigeria as well as the desert of the Sahara and the freezing cold of the North Sea and have had my full amount of vaccinations, which I totally believe in, as they seem to have worked for me. However when I was a boy, I had friends who had contracted polio and it was a pitiful sight to see, so I was thankful that I was vaccinated in the 50s for it.

 

So my point was that as the vast majority of the medical profession have railed against the use of ivermectin as a cure for Covid, and many carefully monitored trials have also found it to be useless, then it shouldn't be touted as a cure, especially in opposition to a vaccination, because this is dangerous.

 

Yet still the incorrect/misguided/medically unsound information is touted by the likes of the FLCCC and other websites.

 

Vaccinations have been around for well over a hundred years and more, and this method has been proven time and time again, so I will put my faith in that, and will severely rail against those who try to convince others that an antiparasitic/worm medicine will combat a new virus.
 

[Jeffr2]

 A majority of the people in hospitals now are under 50. Or children.

 

Zip excuse to not get vaccinated if you can. Zip.

 

You're hardly a fool for trying to help others. They are the fools for not listening.

Edited September 14, 2021 by onthedarkside
quote of hidden post removed

[atpeace]

3 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

 A majority of the people in hospitals now are under 50. Or children.

 

 

Source?

 

[Jeffr2]

2 hours ago, atpeace said:

Source?

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/09/13/health/children-covid-cases-increase/index.html

 

Covid-19 infections have risen "exponentially" among children in the US since July, according to data published Monday by the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP).

The group reported 243,373 new cases among kids over the past week. While this is a decline from last week, when 251,781 cases were reported, it's about a 240% increase since early July, when kids accounted for 71,726 cases.

 

"After declining in early summer, child cases have increased exponentially with nearly 500,000 cases in the past two weeks," AAP said in a statement.

[Jeffr2]

2 hours ago, atpeace said:

Source?

 

Some stats. I'll look for more. This virus has learned how to attack younger people.

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1254271/us-total-number-of-covid-cases-by-age-group/

 

Worth a read

 

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/young-people-make-up-biggest-group-of-newly-hospitalized-covid-19-patients

[onthedarkside]

A vaccine post with misinformation and unsourced/unsubstantiated claims has been removed, along with a reply to it.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

To answer the OP’s specific question:

 

’Life in Thailand possible without the vaccine?’

 

Well yes, demonstrably it is, or at least is for the time being.

 

However, before getting on the plane to move here consider the following:

 

1. Medical services are not free and in many parts of the country poor quality.

 

In larger towns and cities medical services are stretched to capacity, resorting to shipping Covid patients out to the provinces (where, in many places healthcare is poor quality.

 

It really is not a good idea to put yourself in need of medical services right now and never a good idea unless you have access to any of a small number of good quality health service providers in Thailand.

 

Vaccination offers a significant reduction in the chances of winding up in hospital.

 

2. Government policy here is not subject to any real challenges, if the Government does decide on mandatory vaccination then you’ll be looking for another country to move to.

 

If you choose to live in a highly populated area you might have access to good quality health services but you’ll be at higher risk of infection - The case for vaccination is clear.

 

If you live in a remote area you might be at lower risk of infection but not have access to quality health care services - The case for vaccination is clear.

 

If you don’t have health insurance and don’t have significant cash available to cover a spell in hospital the case for vaccination is very clear.

 

 

[LarrySR]

The good news for the OP is that lots of the cable TV companies here in Thailand carry Fox and he can hook up with other Fox viewers at the coffee shop and discuss vaccine conspiracy theories and where to buy Ivermectin.

[xylophone]

19 minutes ago, Fbken said:

https://www.hilarispublisher.com/open-access/determination-of-the-effectiveness-of-chlorine-dioxide-in-the-treatment-of-covid-19.pdf

 

Conclusion: Chlorine dioxide is effective in the treatment of COVID-19 and the mechanisms of action by which it acts to achieve it are proposed in this work. We recommend doing more research. We recommend conducting double-blind studies and delving into studies of toxicological safety and therapeutic efficacy of chlorine dioxide in pathologies of epidemiological impact in the near future.

Oh dear, more pseudoscience which has been thoroughly disproved. Read on.............

 

https://health-desk.org/articles/why-is-chlorine-dioxide-dangerous-if-taken-for-covid-19

In South America, a toxic chemical is being touted as a miracle cure for Covid-19. How did the mistaken belief in its powers take hold?

 

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20210629-south-americas-bitter-divide-over-a-toxic-covid-cure

 

This is an excellent article………….

Pseudoscience in the Times of Crisis: How and Why Chlorine Dioxide Consumption Became Popular in Latin America During the COVID-19 Pandemic

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpos.2021.621370/full

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, Fbken said:

And how does that change the outcome of the study. It is a very scientific analysis of the action of chlorine dioxide and the spike protein in the covid virus

How do you know it's scientific and that its results are valid? If so, why is it being published in a pay-to-publish journal?