‘Make peace with Sinovac’ if Thais wants to get back to normal, official says

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, FridgeMagnet1 said:

I haven’t seen much fear of Sinovac in Thais. The fear I see is from men in their 60s in isolated villages in Issan 

 

Personally, I don't care about the Sinovac vaccine one way or the other, as I've already had my two doses of AZ via the Thai government's vaccination program for expats.

 

However, my Thai wife has refused the opportunity to get the Sinovac vaccine via the government's vaccine program because her mother upcountry doesn't like it. And when I asked the wife what the mother had seen about Sinovac, the wife's response was that the mother had been viewing Thai youtube and social media videos claiming people had bad reactions to Sinovac.

 

Now, I personally don't reconsider Thai social media reports to be particularly credible on these kinds of topics, nor does the real science support that kind of stuff. However, none of that stops ill-informed or poorly-informed Thais (or even people of other nationalities!) from basing their personal vaccination decisions based on social media nonsense.

 

If I had to make the decision still, based on what I know from credible science, I'd try instead to get two shots of an mRNA vaccine like Moderna or Pfizer solely for being more effective against the Delta variant than Sinovac...  that is, if I had any such choices in the matter.

 

And not because of any social media vaccine reaction nonsense or anti-Chinese sentiment relating to the Sinovac vaccine.

 

And FWIW, my wife just today put in her 3300b payment for two doses of the Moderna vaccine thru a private hospital in BKK that are supposed to be delivered before the end of the year. So, she put her money where her mouth is, paying for Moderna instead of taking the free Sinovac doses offered by the government.

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[fondue zoo]

Accept the deception, be part of the deception, risk yourself...   for the good of the country.

Edited September 28, 2021 by fondue zoo

[Kirb46Lam]

Quote

And FWIW, my wife just today put in her 3300b payment for two doses of the Moderna vaccine thru a private hospital in BKK that are supposed to be delivered before the end of the year. So, she put her money where her mouth is, paying for Moderna instead of taking the free Sinovac doses offered by the government.

Same here my family and I registered and payed for Moderna yonks ago 

i read that some portion of the order will be coming this month probably go to the red cross ( correct me if I am wrong) and the majority of the amount ordered next year. A hell of a wait for something you have already paid for 

Family does not want Sinovac either 

[thaichina]

57 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Personally, I don't care about the Sinovac vaccine one way or the other, as I've already had my two doses of AZ via the Thai government's vaccination program for expats.

 

However, my Thai wife has refused the opportunity to get the Sinovac vaccine via the government's vaccine program because her mother upcountry doesn't like it. And when I asked the wife what the mother had seen about Sinovac, the wife's response was that the mother had been viewing Thai youtube and social media videos claiming people had bad reactions to Sinovac.

 

Now, I personally don't reconsider Thai social media reports to be particularly credible on these kinds of topics, nor does the real science support that kind of stuff. However, none of that stops ill-informed or poorly-informed Thais (or even people of other nationalities!) from basing their personal vaccination decisions based on social media nonsense.

 

If I had to make the decision still, based on what I know from credible science, I'd try instead to get two shots of an mRNA vaccine like Moderna or Pfizer solely for being more effective against the Delta variant than Sinovac...  that is, if I had any such choices in the matter.

 

And not because of any social media vaccine reaction nonsense or anti-Chinese sentiment relating to the Sinovac vaccine.

 

And FWIW, my wife just today put in her 3300b payment for two doses of the Moderna vaccine thru a private hospital in BKK that are supposed to be delivered before the end of the year. So, she put her money where her mouth is, paying for Moderna instead of taking the free Sinovac doses offered by the government.

 

You are right, most of the anti sinovac claims seem again to be based mostly on misunderstanding on how vaccines work and anti chinese sentiment which is very high here on tvf. I myself am not in a hurry to get a vaccine as i work online so I m waiting for MRna vaccines, but if I had a lot of interactions with others for my job or social life, I would take it now and maybe wait for a booster in the future. It protects you again death from covid which is the main reason to take the vaccines.

[MarkT63]

1 hour ago, bikerlou47 said:

I don't want it because I want to go to the UK.

I thint as it stands,  the UK government are not recognising ANY vaccine administered in Thailand.

That stance may change in time but not holding my breath so any plans to go back to the UK are well and truly on hold.

[Percy P]

4 hours ago, Chris.B said:

.... and you don't want it because no one wants it? ????

Ok do without .My first vaccination will be a Sinovac. I have no complaint.  It's like drinking a lower % whiskey  but still effective.

[RobU]

5 hours ago, RotBenz8888 said:

Is there a war against it? 

There appears to be in the press and internet a lot of negative comments about it, any vaccine is better than nothing. People effectively cutting off their noses to spite their faces, refusing to have Sinovac wanting to wait until they get a 'better' vaccine. Fact is that it is less effective in reducing symptomatic covid but still highly effective in preventing severe symptoms and death

Edited September 28, 2021 by RobU

[Bruno123]

1 hour ago, Burma Bill said:

Thank you for your comment but at 77 and an insulin dependent type 2 diabetic, I can assure you I have no concerns or fear at all. In Cambodia it is either Sinovac or Sinopharm and, on advice from my Khmer doctor, Sinovac was recommended. I have now been vaccinated with 2 jabs of Sinovac and possess my Covid-19 Vaccination Card. 

Burma Bill but you live in Cambodia??!! That ain't right ????

[alyx]

I would be the spoke person, I would have ducked the question if asked and definitely would not have brought the subject. What is not mentioned is not debated

[Rampant Rabbit]

2 hours ago, FridgeMagnet1 said:

I haven’t seen much fear of Sinovac in Thais. The fear I see is from men in their 60s in isolated villages in Issan 

Hey you need to stop that kerb crawling up there????

[toofarnorth]

5 hours ago, Chris.B said:

B1700 a dose? Where does that figure come from?

 

Just what I was thinking , my <deleted> 4 hours ago came free.

[toofarnorth]

29 minutes ago, RobU said:

There appears to be in the press and internet a lot of negative comments about it, any vaccine is better than nothing. People effectively cutting off their noses to spite their faces, refusing to have Sinovac wanting to wait until they get a 'better' vaccine. Fact is that it is less effective in reducing symptomatic covid but still highly effective in preventing severe symptoms and death

Hope you are right , my small <deleted> earlier made me feel queer for a couple of hours but feel ok now.

[sirineou]

6 hours ago, RotBenz8888 said:

Is there a war against it? 

Actually yes. For political reasons it has been politicized  , Personally I think it is an attempt by the west to diminish Chinese influence. .

Other vaccines might be better, but Cinovac is nor bad, 

Imagine if Covid was as dangerous as the common cold, would anyone worry about it? Well Sinovac does just that, Prevents symptomatic infection to 51% Hospitalization by 87.5% and death by 86.3%

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-57817591

 

reported four days ago"

"The study, conducted by the Malaysian government, found that 0.011% of about 7.2 million recipients of the Sinovac shot required treatment in intensive care units (ICU) for COVID-19 infections, health officials told reporters on Thursday.

By contrast, 0.002% of about 6.5 million recipients of the Pfizer (PFE.N)/BioNTech (22UAy.DE) vaccine needed ICU treatment for COVID-19 infections, while 0.001% of 744,958 recipients of the AstraZeneca (AZN.L) shot required similar "

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/sinovacs-covid-shot-highly-effective-against-serious-illness-malaysia-study-2021-09-24/

 

People need to stop buying into the political propaganda and their nationalistic instincts and start acting toward their own best interest. In the absence of better options sinovac is good enough for now. 

Edited September 28, 2021 by sirineou

[bkk6060]

3 hours ago, FridgeMagnet1 said:

I haven’t seen much fear of Sinovac in Thais. The fear I see is from men in their 60s in isolated villages in Issan 

I have expereinced just the opposite.  Most young people especially females don't seem to want it at all.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

23 minutes ago, sirineou said:

People need to stop buying into the political propaganda and their nationalistic instincts and start acting toward their own best interest. In the absence of better options sinovac is good enough for now. 

It would also be better if you didn't misrepresent the actual data on the Sinovac vaccine and the BBC's reporting on it.

 

The effectiveness stats you quote above from the BBC are those listed by the WHO at the time of WHO approval, which relied on trials in several countries that occurred PRIOR to the emergence of the coronavirus Delta variant as the main one in the world.

 

As the July 2021 BBC report you partially quoted goes on to say (and which you chose NOT to include in your summary of their report):

 

"However, there is little data about its [Sinovac's] effectiveness against the Delta variant."

 

And the same BBC report went on to add:

 

"Thailand has changed its vaccine policy to mix China's Sinovac with the AstraZeneca vaccine in a bid to boost protection after hundreds of medical workers caught Covid despite being fully vaccinated with Sinovac.

 

Meanwhile in Indonesia, the main doctors and nurses' association said at least 30 healthcare workers died despite receiving two doses of the Sinovac vaccine."

 

There are some questions about the real meaning/details of those Thai and Indonesia cases the BBC refers to above. But there's little question about the absence of much clear, credible, peer-reviewed evidence of Sinovac's effectiveness against the Delta variant.

 

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[sirineou]

13 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

It would also be better if you didn't misrepresent the actual data on the Sinovac vaccine and the BBC's reporting on it.

 

The effectiveness stats you quote above from the BBC are those listed by the WHO at the time of WHO approval, which relied on trials in several countries that occurred PRIOR to the emergence of the coronavirus Delta variant as the main one in the world.

 

As the July 2021 BBC report you partially quoted goes on to say (and which you chose NOT to include in your summary of their report):

 

"However, there is little data about its [Sinovac's] effectiveness against the Delta variant."

 

And the same BBC report went on to add:

 

"Thailand has changed its vaccine policy to mix China's Sinovac with the AstraZeneca vaccine in a bid to boost protection after hundreds of medical workers caught Covid despite being fully vaccinated with Sinovac.

 

Meanwhile in Indonesia, the main doctors and nurses' association said at least 30 healthcare workers died despite receiving two doses of the Sinovac vaccine."

 

as you noticed , I posted links to every quote , where you did not. 

as to your iquote of the report on the BBC that i provided a link to, 

"Meanwhile in Indonesia, the main doctors and nurses' association said at least 30 healthcare workers died despite receiving two doses of the Sinovac vaccine. "

Is entirely consistent with what I said.  

It does not reduces death by 100% it does by 86% , so out of the tenths of millions vaccinated in Indonesia with the Cinovac I think that 30 deaths is a astoundingly low number of deaths. Personally I think there are many many more deaths of people fully vaccinated   with the Cinovac. 

Edited September 28, 2021 by sirineou

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Here you go:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-57817591

 

"However, there is little data about its [Sinovac's] effectiveness against the Delta variant."

 

In general, THAT'S the reason to prefer the mRNA vaccine choices over Sinovac if one has any choice.

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[RobU]

1 hour ago, bkk6060 said:

I have expereinced just the opposite.  Most young people especially females don't seem to want it at all.

There has been fake news on the internet spread by the Anti Vax Cult that vaccination can cause infertility. I wonder if this is the reason and that they would actually be against any vaccine

[sirineou]

38 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Here you go:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-57817591

 

"However, there is little data about its [Sinovac's] effectiveness against the Delta variant."

 

In general, THAT'S the reason to prefer the mRNA vaccine choices over Sinovac if one has any choice.

 

"Snovac booster shot reverses drop in antibody activities against Delta-study" 

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/sinovacs-covid-shot-highly-effective-against-serious-illness-malaysia-study-2021-09-24/

 

" The main Chinese vaccines appear to be working well against the Delta variant—but not as well as some of their foreign counterparts."

https://fortune.com/2021/08/31/china-covid-vaccine-sinovac-sinopharm-delta-variant-effective/

I also preferer the mRNA type of vaccines, both me and my wife are vaccinated with the Pfizer vaccine, But in the absence of those options the Sinovac vaccine is good enough for now. We need to get as many people as possible vaccinated so we can get Thailand back on track and get our lives back.

I hope we can all agree on that.

And sinovac is another tool in the tool box to get us from here to there.  Later on there is nothing preventing people from getting a different vaccine, or as proposed by many governments a combination of two. 

[Chris.B]

2 hours ago, sirineou said:

Actually yes. For political reasons it has been politicized  , Personally I think it is an attempt by the west to diminish Chinese influence. .

Other vaccines might be better, but Cinovac is nor bad, 

Imagine if Covid was as dangerous as the common cold, would anyone worry about it? Well Sinovac does just that, Prevents symptomatic infection to 51% Hospitalization by 87.5% and death by 86.3%

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-57817591

 

reported four days ago"

"The study, conducted by the Malaysian government, found that 0.011% of about 7.2 million recipients of the Sinovac shot required treatment in intensive care units (ICU) for COVID-19 infections, health officials told reporters on Thursday.

By contrast, 0.002% of about 6.5 million recipients of the Pfizer (PFE.N)/BioNTech (22UAy.DE) vaccine needed ICU treatment for COVID-19 infections, while 0.001% of 744,958 recipients of the AstraZeneca (AZN.L) shot required similar "

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/sinovacs-covid-shot-highly-effective-against-serious-illness-malaysia-study-2021-09-24/

 

People need to stop buying into the political propaganda and their nationalistic instincts and start acting toward their own best interest. In the absence of better options sinovac is good enough for now. 

What about the politizing of the UK's Astra Zeneca by the European Union then? ☹️☹️

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

" The main Chinese vaccines appear to be working well against the Delta variant—but not as well as some of their foreign counterparts."

https://fortune.com/2021/08/31/china-covid-vaccine-sinovac-sinopharm-delta-variant-effective/

I also preferer the mRNA type of vaccines, both me and my wife are vaccinated with the Pfizer vaccine, But in the absence of those options the Sinovac vaccine is good enough for now. We need to get as many people as possible vaccinated so we can get Thailand back on track and get our lives back.

I hope we can all agree on that.

And sinovac is another tool in the tool box to get us from here to there.  Later on there is nothing preventing people from getting a different vaccine, or as proposed by many governments a combination of two. 

 

I've seen and quoted here previously the Fortune article you cite above.

 

#1 - The results cited in that article have NOT been peer reviewed.

 

#2 - a good part of the article's info about China vaccines pertains to Sinopharm results, not Sinovac.

 

But of what it has to say about the Sinovac vaccine, this is what it says:

 

"A Brazilian preprint study published last week tracked 61 million people in Brazil from January to June, comparing infection, hospitalization, and death rates between unvaccinated individuals and those who received Sinovac or AstraZeneca jabs.

 

The study found that people fully inoculated with Sinovac reduced their risk of infection by 54% and risk of death by 74% compared with unvaccinated populations. Still, the AstraZeneca vaccine appeared to offer more protection, reducing the risk of infection by 70% and the risk of death by 90%. Sinovac’s efficacy also waned in older populations, reducing the risk of death by only 35% in populations over 80."

 

Sinovac's 54% reduction in risk of infection and 74% reduction in risk of death in that study does not look very good compared to the comparable percentages of 70% and 90% for AZ vaccine recipients.

 

But I will agree with one of the article's conclusions:

 

"The scientific consensus remains that getting a Sinopharm or Sinovac jab is far better than getting no vaccine at all."

 

In the broader scheme of things, as regards the Delta variant, the mRNA vaccines generally have shown the highest levels of effectiveness. Lesser down the scale has been the AZ vaccine, though recent studies have suggested the Pfizer vaccine effectiveness declines over several months after injection to the point of being similar to the AZ vaccine at that point. And then further down the scale of effectiveness is a vaccine like Sinovac, as illustrated by the Fortune report above, which basically means Sinovac is at the bottom of the list of currently approved CV vaccines.

 

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[RichardColeman]

I'm guessing back to normal with sinovac means not travelling abroad for the forseeable future without foreign quarantine ????

[The Hammer2021]

9 hours ago, bikerlou47 said:

I don't want it because I want to go to the UK.

No vaccine given here is acceptable to the UK authorities

[sirineou]

3 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I've seen and quoted here previously the Fortune article you cite above.

 

#1 - The results cited in that article have NOT been peer reviewed.

 

#2 - a good part of the article's info about China vaccines pertains to Sinopharm results, not Sinovac.

 

But of what it has to say about the Sinovac vaccine, this is what it says:

 

"A Brazilian preprint study published last week tracked 61 million people in Brazil from January to June, comparing infection, hospitalization, and death rates between unvaccinated individuals and those who received Sinovac or AstraZeneca jabs.

 

The study found that people fully inoculated with Sinovac reduced their risk of infection by 54% and risk of death by 74% compared with unvaccinated populations. Still, the AstraZeneca vaccine appeared to offer more protection, reducing the risk of infection by 70% and the risk of death by 90%. Sinovac’s efficacy also waned in older populations, reducing the risk of death by only 35% in populations over 80."

 

Sinovac's 54% reduction in risk of infection and 74% reduction in risk of death in that study does not look very good compared to the comparable percentages of 70% and 90% for AZ vaccine recipients.

 

But I will agree with one of the article's conclusions:

 

"The scientific consensus remains that getting a Sinopharm or Sinovac jab is far better than getting no vaccine at all."

 

In the broader scheme of things, as regards the Delta variant, the mRNA vaccines generally have shown the highest levels of effectiveness. Lesser down the scale has been the AZ vaccine, though recent studies have suggested the Pfizer vaccine effectiveness declines over several months after injection to the point of being similar to the AZ vaccine at that point. And then further down the scale of effectiveness is a vaccine like Sinovac, as illustrated by the Fortune report above, which basically means Sinovac is at the bottom of the list of currently approved CV vaccines.

 

 

You are missing the point. 

No doubt there are other and better  birds,  but a bird in the hand is better than two in the bush.

Why settle for less birds? 

Its Ok we really didn't want Thailand opening up anyway, why settle for Sinovac.

[sirineou]

4 hours ago, Chris.B said:

What about the politizing of the UK's Astra Zeneca by the European Union then? ☹️☹️

 

Or Az's reneging on delivery promises to the EU?

All bad when people's health,  lives ,and economies are at stake. 

[bangon04]

9 hours ago, toofarnorth said:

my small <deleted> earlier made me feel queer for a couple of hours 

well that is a side effect we hear little about......

[metisdead]

Some more misleading troll posts have been removed.

[ncc1701d]

Sadly this is the reality. My girlfriend booked and paid for modern and was promised October for first jab. Was told about a week ago that she can expect it now sometime from Jan to May 2022. That's way too long to wait, so she's booked in for Dino-harm (ha, that was the spell check) Sinopharm, and nice she can't cancel the modern, will either sell her shot or use it as a booster. What a S Show.