Before And Now.

[Stocky]

On 10/2/2021 at 10:11 AM, Gsxrnz said:

After observing world wide politics and bureaucracy for 60 years, it is my opinion that every single person that seeks or seizes power and authority is the last person you want to have that authority. Inevitably every world leader is a hybrid of the school bully and the teacher's pet.  We didn't trust them as adolescents, why would we trust them now?

“To summarize: it is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it.”

~ Douglas Adams, - The Restaurant at the End of the Universe

[gilamonster]

Much better before, even ignoring Covid. The 1990's were superb in all regards.

[BritManToo]

Just now, gilamonster said:

Much better before, even ignoring Covid. The 1990's were superb in all regards.

Internet wasn't very fast back then, even when I arrived here in 2009 internet was very iffy..

I prefer life with a fibre connection and all the free music, books, games, TV series and movies I can download.

[malthebluff]

1 hour ago, Scouse123 said:

Me too,

 

25 years + , a bit more actually, more like 30 years with the coming and going before finally moving here full time.

 

I find the most that seems to have gone is the ' FUN ' factor. It is no longer the ' exotic adventure ' and let's be honest, anybody can get here now with a 500GBP flight!........ They couldn't back then.

 

There was also never the continuous changing of rules, regulations, visa changes and difficulties, opening and closing hours, Anti foreigner sentiment echoed by successive governments,  in fact, we heard little from the governments. All that changed and came about with Thaksin and his cronies such as Purachai coming to power and giant posters of him being erected everywhere. He wanted to be a poster boy or a movie star of Thai politics on the world stage.

 

The corruption was always there but never as obvious or as greedy and in your face as it is now.

 

I still like the region, I just base myself in Isaarn (and prefer it as I have aged) when its all operating normally without the Covid19 <deleted>, and my side trips to Vietnam and Cambodia which I can't wait for to start again.

 

My other half is 43 and constantly complains about the younger generation of Thais and insists they are even more poorly educated as they are not interested in learning in classrooms and teachers are not interested in teaching, but now have no respect or manners for parents and elders and have become decidedly entitled.

100% agree that is exactly the words the fun factor has gone. My better half is a teacher and she would agree with your mrs but complains about the lack of freedom to teach they must use certain books which are 10 years out dated and must conform to what the government says are the ways to teach. In other words brain washing the kids. The racism here has always been kind of hidden but not anymore and I have a feeling with the new generations will get worse. Hence looking for pasters new before I get really old 

[LarrySR]

Thaksin was an extremely competent businessman and leader, moving the country forward.

Thailand was booming during his years of oversight....The old guard decided, he had to go..

[newnative]

     My partner and I have been here since 2010; I can't speak for the prior years.  I think in the years we have been here a lot of things have improved, and are still improving.  Like we did in the US, we live very ordinary, normal lives in Pattaya and we appreciate ordinary, everyday things like the better and more reliable internet we now have.  We appreciate the health care choices we have like the new Jomtien Hospital.

    We appreciate new stores coming to town like Chic Republic.  And, established stores like Index building a new and much better store.  Ditto for HomeWork morphing into the better Baan and Beyond.  We like having both Central Festival and now Terminal 21 to shop at, dine at, or see a movie.  

    As homebodies, we like the greatly expanded choices we now have in housing.  Lots of different condos to choose from in all parts of the town and in all price ranges.  For houses, also a larger selection to choose from now than there was in 2010, and also in a variety of price ranges.  For both renters and buyers, there's a lot more to choose from than there was in 2010.

    The city always comes in for a lot of criticism but as a glass-half-full guy I think that infrastructure is better now than it was in 2010.  Roads have been improved in Cosy Beach.  The tunnel was done.  Some intersections improved.  Turning lanes added to Pratamnak Road.  Jomtien Second Road completed to Sukumvit.  The road out by the DMV has been greatly improved.

    Many other roads have been improved and storm drains added, with work still continuing.  Overhead wires have started to be buried--North Pattaya Road is done and looking much better.   It's nice to see other projects undertaken, too--like the bike and walking trail and park by Lake Mabprachan.  That is still currently being added to and the road improved, as well.   The new Motorway to U Tapao wasn't a city project but it's a nice addition, also.

     For us, we are enjoying living here.  We like Pattaya and we like Thailand--we are still visiting new areas we haven't been to and revisiting others.  Our current adventure is renovating a house--after always living in condos.  We can afford a house with a pool in Thailand; not sure we could in the US.  Despite covid, life is good.  

     

    

[Darksidedude]

15 years plus is better than now that is pre covid

[kennw]

On 10/2/2021 at 10:53 AM, OneMoreFarang said:

The only decent Thai politician I "know" is Abhisit. But it seems most Thais don't want a smart educated guy who is not (openly) corrupt.

I followed Thaksin since he started with politics and since he told the masses he is already rich and he doesn't need more money. And soon after that he was hiding his money in the names of his home employees. He called it an honest mistake. They should have thrown him into jail at that time!

I am happy the military kicked him out. Unfortunately they didn't arrest all those red-shirts.

 

I don't have much hope with Thai politics. People vote again and again for known corrupt politicians and then they are surprised when they have a corrupt government. Stupid!

 

Apart from that life was and is good in Thailand. Lots of things are different. And most of all we are different, we are 20 or x years older than "before". 

 

Great summary, but I think Khun Annon Parichon who was appointed by the military formed the best govt Thailand has seen. Thaksin destroyed democracy in Thailand due to his greed for power. Why use schemes to get money to buy votes (Diesel scams etc) when you can promise double world price for rice which will be paid by govt (peoples) money. Divide the people into red and yellow ,terrible and still exists. Army not perfect but at least allow a reset. Still unable to get rid of the old bad politicians. In summary, for us the old times much better, for Thais the future has better prospects if they can find a leader with the integrity of Prayut  without the baggage.  

[Tropposurfer]

I'm not denigrating the OP for his questions they are very valid and important to reflect on as residents (either foreign visitor or natives). The comments of sociological changes as noted by respondent posters are interesting to read.

I would say on an existential level change both positive and negative - sociological change is inevitable as is all change. Albeit it may move at a snails pace and therefore appear to not be changing at all (constrained and blinkered by ones short lifespan) and by other scales of social measure to appear to be going backward or necrotic. 

LOS has changed a lot in some ways since I came here in the early 1980's, in others, as in the nature of man, it has both changed and appear necrotic as others have noted e.g corruption, futility, individual powerlessness etc.

I'm maybe cheating by posting as I have only lived her as a retiree for a couple of years. but previously spent decent periods of time living, and even working here at one stage over a long time and as such have an investment on some levels in this place called Thailand.

The advent, and accelerated proficiency of communications as one poster remarked has certainly changed society here and every where a great deal. That is an undeniable given.

I agree with the posters, whom some might say express a dystopian world, and LOS view e.g. that the social system is controlled by the monied, politicians, and the military and as one poster put it (and I paraphrase) and whatever governments (they're all the same in truth) who care nothing for 'the people'. That we are, in the cold light of reality just a collection of flotsam, an inconvenient and annoying necessity in order to serve the industrial complex that is now the globe. Notice I did not use the phrase 'our globe'. Marx had some interesting things to say on this in his 'Manifesto & Das Kapital ' as did Huxley, Chomsky, Socrates, Robert Bly, MLK, and Plato to name but a few. 

 

 

[zzaa09]

7 hours ago, Tropposurfer said:

I'm not denigrating the OP for his questions they are very valid and important to reflect on as residents (either foreign visitor or natives). The comments of sociological changes as noted by respondent posters are interesting to read.

I would say on an existential level change both positive and negative - sociological change is inevitable as is all change. Albeit it may move at a snails pace and therefore appear to not be changing at all (constrained and blinkered by ones short lifespan) and by other scales of social measure to appear to be going backward or necrotic. 

LOS has changed a lot in some ways since I came here in the early 1980's, in others, as in the nature of man, it has both changed and appear necrotic as others have noted e.g corruption, futility, individual powerlessness etc.

I'm maybe cheating by posting as I have only lived her as a retiree for a couple of years. but previously spent decent periods of time living, and even working here at one stage over a long time and as such have an investment on some levels in this place called Thailand.

The advent, and accelerated proficiency of communications as one poster remarked has certainly changed society here and every where a great deal. That is an undeniable given.

I agree with the posters, whom some might say express a dystopian world, and LOS view e.g. that the social system is controlled by the monied, politicians, and the military and as one poster put it (and I paraphrase) and whatever governments (they're all the same in truth) who care nothing for 'the people'. That we are, in the cold light of reality just a collection of flotsam, an inconvenient and annoying necessity in order to serve the industrial complex that is now the globe. Notice I did not use the phrase 'our globe'. Marx had some interesting things to say on this in his 'Manifesto & Das Kapital ' as did Huxley, Chomsky, Socrates, Robert Bly, MLK, and Plato to name but a few. 

 

 

Read Ajarn Sulak Sivaraksa - 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 10/2/2021 at 3:43 PM, possum1931 said:

Those of you who have lived here 15 years or more, how do you compare it then and now?

Way, way longer than that. Back then it was a lot easier to visit immigration wise. It was like they wanted us to visit.

Beaches were not ruined with concrete, traveling was more adventurous, Pattaya was really fun. tv only had Thai shows- no cable in hotels. Flashpackers hadn't emerged as an influence on accommodation, so it was more primitive but way cheaper. No internet, no mobile phones- bliss.

 

IMO Thailand now is more sophisticated but lost the smile, lost a lot of the sanuk, became more westernised and the girls got fatter and less friendly. Mobile phones are an everpresent curse.

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, Tropposurfer said:

LOS has changed a lot in some ways since I came here in the early 1980's, in others, as in the nature of man, it has both changed and appear necrotic as others have noted e.g corruption, futility, individual powerlessness etc.

 

8 hours ago, Tropposurfer said:

I agree with the posters, whom some might say express a dystopian world, and LOS view e.g. that the social system is controlled by the monied, politicians, and the military and as one poster put it (and I paraphrase) and whatever governments (they're all the same in truth) who care nothing for 'the people'.

Perhaps I'm "different", but none of that ever affected me during my time in LOS. I knew it went on, but as it didn't make a difference to my time there I didn't care. That was something for Thais to sort, not farangs.

The only time Thai politics intruded into my life in LOS, was when Purachai attempted to destroy the farang nite scene.

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Internet wasn't very fast back then, even when I arrived here in 2009 internet was very iffy..

I prefer life with a fibre connection and all the free music, books, games, TV series and movies I can download.

LOL. We got by without internet and life was better for not having it, IMO. If not for internet I'd read more books.

 

[zzaa09]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. We got by without internet and life was better for not having it, IMO. If not for internet I'd read more books.

 

The electronic dependency is fierce - 

[jerrymahoney]

The only time Thai politics became acutely aware to me is that I was SEP 2006 at the international airport then at Don Meuang already on the airside and we did not know what to expect -- even to be held as hostages to one side or the other.

 

Nothing else I have ever felt affected me directly.

[brianthainess]

On 10/2/2021 at 9:43 AM, possum1931 said:

Those of you who have lived here 15 years or more, how do you compare it then and now?

I can remember those times, when you took a lady 1,000b long time , they cleaned your room in the morning, and sat and had breakfast with you, but I was a Sexy man and Soo Hansum then, 20yrs ago.  

[NoshowJones]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Way, way longer than that. Back then it was a lot easier to visit immigration wise. It was like they wanted us to visit.

Beaches were not ruined with concrete, traveling was more adventurous, Pattaya was really fun. tv only had Thai shows- no cable in hotels. Flashpackers hadn't emerged as an influence on accommodation, so it was more primitive but way cheaper. No internet, no mobile phones- bliss.

 

IMO Thailand now is more sophisticated but lost the smile, lost a lot of the sanuk, became more westernised and the girls got fatter and less friendly. Mobile phones are an everpresent curse.

I understand what you are saying, and it is interesting, but I have to say I'm glad about mobile phones, although there are some drawbacks, but when I was a private investigator back in Scotland my job would have been a lot harder without one.

But again there were no smartphones then, so maybe that would have been better for you.

[Hanuman2547]

On 10/1/2021 at 8:30 PM, Robin said:

 

Be thankful for what has improved:-

 

We can now make international phone calls at will, read uncensored news on the internet.  Taxis have meters that work, and it is possible to walk through customs at the airport without having your luggage searched.

In addition, we have cable TV too!  A lot more channels that are of interest to expats.

Edited October 4, 2021 by Hanuman2547

[Hanuman2547]

A lot of changes over the years.  When I first arrived here the baht was pegged to the USD at 23/1.  It moved like a glacier to 25/1 where it remained for a very long time.  In 1997 we had the Asian financial crisis.  The dollar became very strong as the baht was floated.  It somewhat settled in the 40-42/1 range.  Began slipping a bit in the early 2000's and has now dropped to the lower 30's/1.  If you were paid in dollars or pounds you were doing very well during this time.  

To me, the 90's and early 2000's were the best time to be an expat in Thailand.  The jobs were good, pay was good, inflation in Thailand wasn't nearly as bad.  Thai people seemed a lot happier then. The opening of the second stage expressway in 1993 was great!  The BTS and later MRT were completed in the late 90's and early 2000's which made getting around a lot easier.  

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, zzaa09 said:

The electronic dependency is fierce - 

The usual suspects realised long ago that electronic media is addictive, and have been exploiting it ever since, IMO.

IMO says something about human intellect that "Big Brother" was popular viewing.

Edited October 4, 2021 by thaibeachlovers

[Stocky]

Heaps of sepia tinted nostalgia! 

 

I'll take the present over the past. I like fast internet Fibre2U v TOT dial-up, I like the better options for food, goods and services, the better travel options (excepting Covid), I like my Kindle and the unlimited options for books rather than potluck at Asia Books, the list goes on and on.

[thaibeachlovers]

43 minutes ago, Hanuman2547 said:

The BTS and later MRT were completed in the late 90's and early 2000's which made getting around a lot easier.  

Indeed they have made a huge difference in getting around Bkk. Early 90s it was quicker to walk than take a bus.

Sky train took a while to become popular after it started taking passengers, and there were often few on it when I was. 3 carriages were plenty. Now they are busting ( at least before corona ).

It faced opposition from many people before built. One politician claimed people would be frightened because it was so high!

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, possum1931 said:

I understand what you are saying, and it is interesting, but I have to say I'm glad about mobile phones, although there are some drawbacks, but when I was a private investigator back in Scotland my job would have been a lot harder without one.

But again there were no smartphones then, so maybe that would have been better for you.

Still don't have a "smart" ( word used reluctantly ) phone. Hope never have to as nothing on one I need or want. Don't like the idea of everything I do/ buy/ write being sold to advertisers.

[BritManToo]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

Still don't have a "smart" ( word used reluctantly ) phone. Hope never have to as nothing on one I need or want. Don't like the idea of everything I do/ buy/ write being sold to advertisers.

Smart phone is very useful for navigation in the jungle when walking or MTBiking.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, brianthainess said:

I can remember those times, when you took a lady 1,000b long time , they cleaned your room in the morning, and sat and had breakfast with you, but I was a Sexy man and Soo Hansum then, 20yrs ago.  

Go back long enough and they thanked  Buddha for you taking them, they put your shoes on and off, and didn't play on their <deleted> phone all day.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

Smart phone is very useful for navigation in the jungle when walking or MTBiking.

I learned how to use a map and a compass long ago. That's how we got around before electronics. However, if one can get porn on the go, a smart phone may be of some use after all.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Hanuman2547 said:

In addition, we have cable TV too!  A lot more channels that are of interest to expats.

Agreed. The old days when the only shows on hotel tv were Thai were a bit boring, though the lady liked the comedy shows, which always involved a fake ladyboy.

Got a bit better when BBC became available, but better when English language movies came in. BBC for some reason often not available on hotel cable. CNN was a poor substitute.

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, gilamonster said:

Much better before, even ignoring Covid. The 1990's were superb in all regards.

Agreed, except for Bkk before the skytrain. That traffic jam was diabolical.

[NoshowJones]

14 hours ago, newnative said:

     My partner and I have been here since 2010; I can't speak for the prior years.  I think in the years we have been here a lot of things have improved, and are still improving.  Like we did in the US, we live very ordinary, normal lives in Pattaya and we appreciate ordinary, everyday things like the better and more reliable internet we now have.  We appreciate the health care choices we have like the new Jomtien Hospital.

    We appreciate new stores coming to town like Chic Republic.  And, established stores like Index building a new and much better store.  Ditto for HomeWork morphing into the better Baan and Beyond.  We like having both Central Festival and now Terminal 21 to shop at, dine at, or see a movie.  

    As homebodies, we like the greatly expanded choices we now have in housing.  Lots of different condos to choose from in all parts of the town and in all price ranges.  For houses, also a larger selection to choose from now than there was in 2010, and also in a variety of price ranges.  For both renters and buyers, there's a lot more to choose from than there was in 2010.

    The city always comes in for a lot of criticism but as a glass-half-full guy I think that infrastructure is better now than it was in 2010.  Roads have been improved in Cosy Beach.  The tunnel was done.  Some intersections improved.  Turning lanes added to Pratamnak Road.  Jomtien Second Road completed to Sukumvit.  The road out by the DMV has been greatly improved.

    Many other roads have been improved and storm drains added, with work still continuing.  Overhead wires have started to be buried--North Pattaya Road is done and looking much better.   It's nice to see other projects undertaken, too--like the bike and walking trail and park by Lake Mabprachan.  That is still currently being added to and the road improved, as well.   The new Motorway to U Tapao wasn't a city project but it's a nice addition, also.

     For us, we are enjoying living here.  We like Pattaya and we like Thailand--we are still visiting new areas we haven't been to and revisiting others.  Our current adventure is renovating a house--after always living in condos.  We can afford a house with a pool in Thailand; not sure we could in the US.  Despite covid, life is good.  

     

    

You have missed out the many negative immigration issues that have happened since then, ie how difficult it is for the under fifties who don't want to get married and want to stay long time. All the unnecessary hoops you have to put up with and the hassle you get with the marriage extensions.

Do you ever read the comments and lies coming from the unelected PM and his generals? Does it not bother you being treated like a criminal to report to immigration every 90 days.

 

I do understand where you are coming from with your comments about some of the roadworks in Pattaya,  but what about these regular floods we are always reading about? I understand the drainage system is mostly to blame for that. The storm drains you mentioned don't seem to be helping much.

Don't you go out with your wife/GF to restaurants for a meal? Does it not bother you about the draconian alcohol rules? etc, etc.

[NoshowJones]

36 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Still don't have a "smart" ( word used reluctantly ) phone. Hope never have to as nothing on one I need or want. Don't like the idea of everything I do/ buy/ write being sold to advertisers.

Yes, I think you make a good point here.