American suspect who allegedly raped a masseuse refuses to reenact the crime scene in Khon Kaen today, claims he felt “unsafe”

[Ebumbu]

4 hours ago, Thailand said:

He is possibly guilty but shouldn't the guy still still have the benefit of"innocent until proven guilty"?

That quaint legal concept takes too long and requires dispassionate judgment. It has been superseded by trial by media, hearsay, virtue signaling, police coercion, and the court of public opinion. Much quicker and more emotionally-satisfying results. 

[Neeranam]

22 minutes ago, shackleton said:

It's about time Thailand  came into the 21st Century

Taking people back to the place of the crime doing a reactment finger

Pointing ect needs to be stopped 

why?

[Bogbrush]

4 hours ago, cardinalblue said:

What’s wrong with your statement is the same how Thais think…you need to add the word allegedly…

 

nit defending him at all but need to follow a process…you can’t let the case be tried in public…

 

in the usa currently, it is rare but the Florida camping couple case has played out way too publicly…leading to the public has already reached a guilty verdict for the missing boyfriend…

The ‘Court of Public Opinion’ is only detrimental when an accused faces a jury trail; also, there’s been a fair bit of comment about denying bail. People seem to think of a remand in custody as a punishment in itself - it shouldn’t be. Bail (introduced by Richard III) was deemed to be eligible  in all cases apart from when (1) it was suspected the accused would abscond (2) interfere with witnesses, or (3) commit further offences whilst on bail.

[Colabamumbai]

None of you are innocent. 

[Kaopad999]

2 hours ago, Hamus Yaigh said:

'innocent until proven guilty' is also an international human right under the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 11 so not just an Americanism.

But he has already confessed to the rape

[HappyExpat57]

5 hours ago, findlay13 said:

He seems to be giving "the finger"  in the photo

 

I thought those got blurred out. ???

[HappyExpat57]

23 minutes ago, Colabamumbai said:

None of you are innocent. 

Of THIS crime I am.

[Speedhump]

6 hours ago, zzaa09 said:

The saddest aspect of cases of this nature is that the offer of bail is available. 

I'm still astounding as to how such a sicko like this could be eligible for bail. 

It is unknown at this point if he will be eligible for bail....

[Speedhump]

30 minutes ago, Colabamumbai said:

None of you are innocent. 

You're certainly innocent of being sane. 

[Tony125]

4 hours ago, vandeventer said:

Again none of us was there. It's her word against his, and I am not sticking up for either one. But just think for a moment, there are over a million pro's in Thailand and if they all yelled rape because they didn't the money they wanted all customers would be in a pickle.

Your statement seems  possible on a one on one incounter but we also have him sexually harrasing a 12 year old Thai girl untill he was chased away by a truck driver.

[rudi49jr]

You didn’t feel safe? Imagine what that woman must have felt when you were raping her and beating her up, you hypocrite!!

[kingstonkid]

7 hours ago, zzaa09 said:

The saddest aspect of cases of this nature is that the offer of bail is available. 

I'm still astounding as to how such a sicko like this could be eligible for bail. 

Hey it is not just here.  How can you shoot and kill someone or get caught stealing numerous times and get bail.

 

Just ask the American system.  I know it is not just them but there are lots of countries that have the same system it is not just Thailand.

 

Personally if it was me I would want to stay in prison in segregation with my gf and lawyer maybe supplementing the hotel meals.

 

 

As to the re enactment I thought we just had a thread where people were talking about how stupid they were and that they were nothing more than a PR circus show.

 

By going through the re enactment he is then admitting guilt.  

 

Any lawyer worth anything will tell him to shut the F up and not help them convict him.

 

 

 

[Scouse123]

5 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

Not at all defending this guy, just pointing out that plenty cases of false accusations of rape...including here in Thailand. 

https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2020/03/26/woman-police-chonburi-rape-complaint-virus-test/

 

https://pattayatoday.net/bikini-model-who-falsely-accused-tuk-tuk-driver-of-rape/

 

https://www.samuitimes.com/thaivisa-exclusive-cameroon-man-in-thailand-my-life-has-been-wrecked-by-false-rape-accusation/

 

<<<< Link to Bangkok Post removed as per forum rules >>>>

 

https://news.sky.com/story/british-teen-who-was-raped-in-koh-tao-faces-ban-from-thailand-11489637

And plenty of cases of police covering up offenses on the islands controlled by mafias and their bosses in Bangkok determined to pretend Thailand is totally safe and nothing like rape happens in Thailand to protect a multi billion dollar tourist industry.However, they knew all along who the perpetrators were. Your last link is fiercely contested as well.

 

Many tourists who were ' sat on the fence ' regards seeking out new tourist destinations came to Thailand as ' creatures of habit ' will now, with Covid19 have been forced to seek out new destinations. And you know what? plenty might decide with all the fuss, farce and constant messing around, they might as well save the hassle of the long distance flights and go somewhere where they and their cash is appreciated and greeted with smiles instead of surliness.

 

They are not asking to be worshiped, just common or garden courtesy will suffice, which has all but disappeared in many tourist areas over here.

 

Tourists being called liars when they report a crime, women wearing beach attire being told by policemen ' they asked for it by the way they were dressed ' Scapegoats working in Thailand of a nearby poor country being blamed for crimes and serving life sentences, when it is  an open secret who committed them, and then to cap it off; Police colonels murdering suspects live on camera!!

 

We then have the  RTP  unashamedly getting excuses ready for the inevitable ' let off '  even suggesting he was bipolar or inexperience and young, qualifies as an excuse for murder, by the very people supposedly protecting the public.

 

So, let's not jump the gun here by including one or two links and pretending all is rosy in the Thai garden.

[BobinBKK]

Help me to understand if he was apprehended at his own condo, how is this considered fleeing his "alleged" crime? Most people on here are to quick to judge someone as guilty just because they see someone in police custody. AND!!! We are talking about being in "Royal Thai Police" custody, we all know how impeccably clean their reputation is ???? 

 

Personally guilty or innocent, I would NEVER reenact any crime I did or didn't do. Let those fools try and prove it. Proving my innocence is "MY" job.

[Chongalulu]

7 hours ago, HappyGoLuckyLife said:

I've heard of that in the American justice system. I bet the defendant has, too. But he's not in America.

But is he obliged (guilty or otherwise) to incriminate himself by the prejudicial farce of him 're enacting' the crime ?  I’ve often wondered why others don’t refuse on that basis - it’s an infantile,superfluous process furthering no additional evidential gathering,unlike those elsewhere where the objective is to jog people’s memory to help with the detection of an unfound suspect. I totally understand why he hasn’t and it seems ultimately they cannot force one to do so . But I suspect you may not have thought quite so deeply about the implications..?

[RocketDog]

7 hours ago, Thailand said:

He is possibly guilty but shouldn't the guy still still have the benefit of"innocent until proven guilty"?

Didn't he admit to both offenses, saying he was on drugs? I won't chase it down but I think it happened when he was arrested.

In any event his purported crime is in Thailand, neither being a western country nor having a western legal system, as we all know.

He's toast.

[sawadee1947]

7 hours ago, zzaa09 said:

The saddest aspect of cases of this nature is that the offer of bail is available. 

I'm still astounding as to how such a sicko like this could be eligible for bail. 

Even Prince Andrew is still s free man.

[chilly07]

7 hours ago, HappyGoLuckyLife said:

I've heard of that in the American justice system. I bet the defendant has, too. But he's not in America.

Innocent till shot in the USA!

[QPRFC]

Doesn't re-enacting the scene automatically make him guilty!?! 

 

Let's get some DNA samples analysed first! 

[Joules]

Good for him, for refusing the reenactment.  I thought the government had pledged to dispense with that silly piece of TV drama.

[Joules]

12 minutes ago, chilly07 said:

Innocent till shot in the USA!

What are you talking about? This guy isn't black.

[PETERTHEEATER]

7 hours ago, findlay13 said:

He seems to be giving "the finger"  in the photo

 

The person in the photograph with his face covered is alleged to be Robert A Gordon........ 

[Bogbrush]

1 hour ago, nchuckle said:

But is he obliged (guilty or otherwise) to incriminate himself by the prejudicial farce of him 're enacting' the crime ?  I’ve often wondered why others don’t refuse on that basis - it’s an infantile,superfluous process furthering no additional evidential gathering,unlike those elsewhere where the objective is to jog people’s memory to help with the detection of an unfound suspect. I totally understand why he hasn’t and it seems ultimately they cannot force one to do so . But I suspect you may not have thought quite so deeply about the implications..?

Crime scene indications (what you call ‘re-enactments’) take place when a suspect has admitted his guilt to Police under caution; the purpose is to add substance to his admission so that he cannot, when taken in front of a magistrate to enter a formal plea, claim his confession was coerced. 

[Cadan]

He will pretend the opposite that was holding the towel. Seems to me like as stupid as you can get. Mocking himself in a situation like. Maybe the masseuse did not fullfill her offers and he did not pay the agreed amount. Sweet revenge 

Edited October 4, 2021 by Cadan

[billsmart]

6 hours ago, WorriedNoodle said:

Public humiliation, not many countries do it. They have some similar in the US but less extreme called the Perp Walk.

I'm from the US, and the "perp walk" is just the police walking the accused away ,usually in handcuffs. I've always thought it was supposed to be a public display showing the police arrested someone.

[Neeranam]

This massage woman and her family will be asked by police if she wants 'time' with this guy  as he is held down.  This is the way it works here. He might have an accident in his cell soon. 

I personally know many police here and they really don't like crime by foreigners, especially agsinst a Thai. 

[malthebluff]

Re enactments of crimes was made unlawful about 10 years ago so why are the police breaking the law they are suppost to uphold.

Guilty or not guilty he has to have a fair trail and in Thailand you are guilty before you commit a crime if you are a foreigner.. this even made the national news but only because it's a foreigner nothing was said when the 6 teachers were raping the kids last year. Or the 5 police officers all sentenced with the death penalty but freed 6 month later.

I am not defending him if he is guilty then he should pay and not buy his way out like some do.

[Srikcir]

6 hours ago, Srikcir said:

More seriously, there is no jury system in Thailand. Judges alone decide cases (allegedly) based on the merits presented by the parties (defense vs prosecution).

See Siam-legal.com

It's not an issue of "public opinion" but of "judicial opinion." These re-enactments are directed towards influencing judges, ineffect making judges part of the prosecution. 

 

A further comment:

"Judges in the Courts of Justice are appointed ND removed by the King with the approval of the Judicial Commission of the Courts of Justice."

www.nyulawglobal.org

Unlike some other (democratic?) countries where judges are elected by the electorate or elected legislature. So what would be the purpose for public re-enactment in Thailand? 

In Thailand one could make the case that the judiciary and the current government could act jointly in prosecution rather than independently. 

[malthebluff]

1 hour ago, Bogbrush said:

Crime scene indications (what you call ‘re-enactments’) take place when a suspect has admitted his guilt to Police under caution; the purpose is to add substance to his admission so that he cannot, when taken in front of a magistrate to enter a formal plea, claim his confession was coerced. 

Made illegal in Thailand 10 years ago but the police still do them it's not to add substance if he has admitted the crime it's to show the public what a great job the police are doing. Where was the added substance with kho tou murder and rape 

[Srikcir]

7 hours ago, Srikcir said:

More seriously, there is no jury system in Thailand. Judges alone decide cases (allegedly) based on the merits presented by the parties (defense vs prosecution).

See Siam-legal.com

It's not an issue of "public opinion" but of "judicial opinion." These re-enactments are directed towards influencing judges, ineffect making judges part of the prosecution. 

 

A further comment.

All Thai judges are recruited by the Judicial Commission and are appointed formally by the King.

Unlike some other (democratic?) countries where judges are elected by the electorate or by an elected legislative body. So with Thailand what purpose does the alleged crime public re-enactment serve? Police and the prosecution appear to be the only beneficiaries and Justice as the only real audience.