Udon Thani police searches home of Swiss national who killed armed intruder at his house after mother of slain man claims almost 300,000 baht was missing

[BritManToo]

Always surprised that ugly women can get two men to fight to the death over them.

That's assuming the fight wasn't over 300kbht the wife stole and the lover wanted back.

 

Hard to sort out the truth in this sort of case. 

[scubascuba3]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

The woman probably does not get enough from the husband why else would she cheat.

 

 

Usual nonsense from you. In the specific case it's likely there is a lot of history between the wife and murdered somchai.  I've heard of a woman keep the charade marriage going for 10 years then going back to long time boyfriend

[robblok]

8 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Usual nonsense from you. In the specific case it's likely there is a lot of history between the wife and murdered somchai.  I've heard of a woman keep the charade marriage going for 10 years then going back to long time boyfriend

No nonsense at all why would one cheat if she is happy and satisfied with her husband. Obviously she is not happy and not satisfied. So IMHO a case of a woman staying with a guy for money and deciding to have some fun because the guy is only good for the money.

[robblok]

12 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Always surprised that ugly women can get two men to fight to the death over them.

That's assuming the fight wasn't over 300kbht the wife stole and the lover wanted back.

 

Hard to sort out the truth in this sort of case. 

It also depends on what the guys can get for their money. But like you I would not fight over a woman like that. In fact I would not fight at all. If she wants someone else let her go no use in holding on to someone that does not want to be with me. 

 

And yes the truth in this case will be really hard to find. Before the money and the relationship i thought it was surely self defense. Now im not so sure anymore. It might have been made to look like self defense. 

[scubascuba3]

8 minutes ago, robblok said:

No nonsense at all why would one cheat if she is happy and satisfied with her husband. Obviously she is not happy and not satisfied. So IMHO a case of a woman staying with a guy for money and deciding to have some fun because the guy is only good for the money.

Ok I'll explain to you again in a different way, they have history, she likes the somchai, maybe for a long time, yes falang has more money, entices her to marry him for security, same story 1000s of times but this one ends in a dead somchai.

 

BTW, why do you only post on murder or rape threads? slightly strange

[robblok]

1 minute ago, scubascuba3 said:

Ok I'll explain to you again in a different way, they have history, she likes the somchai, maybe for a long time, yes falang has more money, entices her to marry him for security, same story 1000s of times but this one ends in a dead somchai.

 

BTW, why do you only post on murder or rape threads? slightly strange

I actually post on other treads to covid threads and today about the electric car. Its just that you don't appear in those topics. So you don't see the posts. Also seems we are both in the staff recording thread, so your wrong.

 

How is your story any different then from what I am saying. We are basically saying the same thing she married the Swiss for money and there is no love / attraction so she is having fun with the guy she (supposedly) does find attractive. 

 

Seems like we are saying the same thing.

[BritManToo]

16 minutes ago, robblok said:

It also depends on what the guys can get for their money.

For 10k/month I managed to get a 10, but 5 years later she's turned into an old boot like the Swiss guys woman. I'd be totally OK with mine running off with Somchai, so I could go shopping for a new 10.

 

Back to the case,

Seems everyone involved is despicable, and that includes the searchers (police, monk, headman) and the dead guy's family.

Edited October 10, 2021 by BritManToo

[robblok]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

For 10k/month I managed to get a 10, but 5 years later she's turned into an old boot like the Swiss guys woman. I'd be totally OK with mine running off with Somchai, so I could go shopping for a new 10.

 

Back to the case,

Seems everyone involved is despicable, and that includes the searchers (police, monk, headman) and the dead guy's family.

You did not think about kicking her out now that she is a 5 or cutting her allowance. Might nice of you to be honest i expected you to rotate them the moment you got bored. (no insult just thought you were like that)

 

The case, not going to predict anything. At first I thought self defense now im not so sure either way. 

 

[ThaSalaPaul]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

Obviously she is not happy and not satisfied. So IMHO a case of a woman staying with a guy for money and deciding to have some fun because the guy is only good for the money.

Whilst I have generally agreed with your thoughts on this topic, I think your observation here is over simplified. I personally believe it is very possible to love one person and then have sex with yet another person (sex does not always equal love). The human psyche and people's motivations are not so black & white and indeed can be very complicated (often sparked by the situations they find themselves in - like alcohol, recent arguments etc, leading to impromptu decisions). Some people feel that if they were to have sex with someone else it would be because they didn't love their current partner any longer. But what is true of one person is not necessarily true of another

Edited October 10, 2021 by ThaSalaPaul

[robblok]

17 minutes ago, ThaSalaPaul said:

Whilst I have generally agreed with your thoughts on this topic, I think your observation here is over simplified. I personally believe it is very possible to love one person and then have sex with yet another person (sex does not always equal love). The human psyche and people's motivations are not so black & white and indeed can be very complicated (often sparked by the situations they find themselves in - like alcohol, recent arguments etc, leading to impromptu decisions). Some people feel that if they were to have sex with someone else it would be because they didn't love their current partner any longer. But what is true of one person is not necessarily true of another

I did not use the word love, i said not happy not satisfied. Because love is something else. Of course things can be agreed upon (open relationship been there done that). But in this case does not seem to be a one time thing but a real affair. 

[Danderman123]

4 hours ago, Orinoco said:

My post was about the 300,000.

that's is a total lie by the family.

There was a report here claiming that there was proof the deceased had sold land the day before he died. 

[ThaSalaPaul]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

I did not use the word love, i said not happy not satisfied. Because love is something else. Of course things can be agreed upon (open relationship been there done that). But in this case does not seem to be a one time thing but a real affair. 

You're right you didn't use the word "love",  but her having an affair (as seems plausible or likely even) is not evidence that she is unhappy in her marriage. She may be or she may not be. We just don't know.

[robblok]

1 minute ago, ThaSalaPaul said:

You're right you didn't use the word "love",  but her having an affair (as seems plausible or likely even) is not evidence that she is unhappy in her marriage. She may be or she may not be. We just don't know.

lets agree to disagree. I see having an affair as being not satisfied in the other relationship otherwise why would one have an affair knowing it would hurt your partner (in most cases)

[ThaSalaPaul]

22 minutes ago, robblok said:

lets agree to disagree. I see having an affair as being not satisfied in the other relationship otherwise why would one have an affair knowing it would hurt your partner (in most cases)

Some people (not you obviously) have the saying "what the eyes don't see the heart doesn't grieve over" close to their own heart. Some people are just weak and give in to temptation. What's true for you in love and fidelity doesn't mean is true for everyone. As you say we will have to agree to disagree.

Edited October 10, 2021 by ThaSalaPaul

[metisdead]

A troll post and a reply has been removed.

[Gecko123]

Thought about this case during a 3-4 hour drive this afternoon.

 

Here are my latest thoughts:

 

1. The missing money.

I'm wondering if the police have checked with Setiyon's family about the possibility that the money he received from selling the land was used to service some other outstanding debt(s) that he may have owed. The land may not have had any outstanding liens or mortgages, but that doesn't mean that he couldn't have used the proceeds from the sale of the land to pay off some other outstanding debt he had.

 

And, again, I realize I may be beating a dead horse at this point, but if by any chance the bail money paid to the police has been kept segregated or can otherwise be identified, the bills should be dusted for the fingerprints of Setiyon and/or the buyers of the land that Setiyon sold. If the buyer's fingerprints or Setiyon's fingerprints are found on the bail money, this would tie the bail money to Setiyon.

 

2. The fight

It is all but certain that Setiyon came to the house with a fully loaded gun, and at some point pulled it out and a round was discharged. But the "money, money, money" attempted armed robbery scenario, as far as I can tell, is entirely dependent on Rudolph's version of what happen. He's the only witness to the events that happened. It is entirely possible that Rudolph's account of what happened is accurate, but in order for that scenario to be accepted, you really need to rule out scenarios other than armed robbery about why he may have come to the house. And for that you need to explore what other motives Setiyon's may have had for coming to the house at 10:30 at night.

 

3. Setiyon's motive

 

a. Booty call doesn't make sense. He's been seeing her behind Rudolf's back for years. Why would he risk alerting the husband to his romantic interests in his wife?

 

b. Armed robbery is problematic as a motive as well. The family points out that he received a large sum of money just the day before, and may have even had it on his person at the time he died. They also claim that he "never robbed anyone in his life." Yes, he had a loaded gun on his person at the time of the incident, but that's not conclusive evidence that he came to the house with the intent to commit armed robbery, as it is possible that he was carrying the gun for self-protection if he had a large sum of cash on his person. The other problem with the armed robbery motive is that he wouldn't have known how much money was in the house. He could be risking 10 years in the penitentiary, only to find out Rudolph only had 3,000 baht in the house. If Rudolph kept a large sum of money in the house, and Setiyon was confident there was money in the house that night, why not burglarize the place? Much lower risk than armed robbery.

 

c. he was there to see Lak and to give her the money he got from the sale of the land. I think there was a report that there may have been phone contact between the two of them earlier in the day, but a proposed rendezvous wasn't possible. I believe that's according to a relative who was allegedly sitting beside Setiyon when he spoke to Lak that afternoon. According to that more innocent scenario, when he shows up to tap on her window or whatever, he unexpectedly encounters Rudolf who happens to be sitting in the outdoor kitchen/dining area behind the house. Rudolf recognizes him immediately, surmises why he's there, pushing and shoving turns to fisticuffs, and Setiyon, perhaps inebriated at that late hour, realizes he's no match for Rudolf, and whips out his gun to protect himself. But somehow Rudolf manages to get the gun away from, and with adrenaline pumping, and angry that Setiyon had the nerve to show up at his house to see his wife, goes a little overboard, and after knocking him out, gives him a good kick or stomp on the abdomen to make sure he doesn't get up while he scrambles to find rope to tie him up with. Tying him up is useful for his defense as that shows that even after Setiyon was down, Rudolf still saw him as a potential physical threat.

 

4. Assessment of Rudolf's legal exposure for manslaughter

Unless the medical examiner can come up with clear unequivocal evidence that a death-causing injury was delivered to the body of Setiyon after a reasonable person would have or should have known that he was no longer a threat, I don't see how Rudolf could be convicted of manslaughter, because his self-defense defenses appear to be quite strong and he appears to have been acting well within the bounds of the "excitement, fright or fear" defense proscribed in Section 69 of the penal code. See below link for applicable penal code statute:

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1233987-udon-police-arrest-swiss-expat-who-killed-armed-intruder-at-his-home/?do=findComment&comment=16876106

 

5. Public relations strategy for Rudolf

There is still a reasonable chance, however, that despite his apparently strong self-defense defenses, the police may refer this case to the public prosecutor's office for prosecution. Just as in the West, the police are going to be under a lot of pressure from Setiyon's family, the media, and the general public to file charges. The media has so far portrayed Rudolf as some sort of Dr Jekyll - Mr Hyde character; on one hand mild-mannered, affable, and haplessly unaware of his wife's long-term infidelity, as well as the potential legal jeopardy he is facing, but on the other hand, a werewolf-like character capable of superhuman strength and lightning fast reflexes who managed to disarm an intruder and ended up causing his death. His on-camera interviews have conveyed a sense that he is telling the truth, and that he has a quiet confidence that he responded in an absolutely reasonable manner to the situation he was faced with, but he also has come across as not particularly empathetic to the family of the victim or remorseful that this whole thing happened. He may well have expressed this to the news media and the police, but this has not come across in any of the interview clips I have seen.

 

In order to take pressure off the police to file charges, I would recommend the following public relations/legal strategy:

 

Public relations:

1. STOP TALKING TO THE PRESS

2. Have your attorney issue a statement on your behalf to the press covering the following bullet points:

     a. Your sincere and most heartfelt condolences are extended to the Setiyon's family

     b. You are heartbroken that this incident occurred and that someone has died as a result of the incident

     c. You have fully cooperated with the police, intend to continue to fully cooperate with the police, and you appreciate the professional manner in which the police have conducted the investigation.

    d. That you will have no further comment until the matter has been resolved.

 

Legal strategy:

1. You and your wife need to have separate attorneys. You are not co-defendants. Only you have been charged with a crime. It is possible that your wife may be charged in the future with charges related to this case. Your goal is obviously to minimize your risk of being incarcerated, or having to pay civil or criminal penalties. That goal may not align perfectly with your wife's goals, especially if she is charged with any related offenses. I would stop making your wife privy to your legal strategy or using her as a translator while talking to the police or your lawyers, especially if the police refer the case for prosecution or negotiations are proposed to resolve this matter through civil damages being paid.

 

To put it bluntly, I don't think your wife can be trusted to not use your predicament to her advantage or not to pipeline whatever legal or settlement strategy you are considering over to the opposing party. To put it even more bluntly, she may be more interested in her own welfare or salvaging her relationships and reputation in the community than she is in keeping you out of jail or shelling out civil and criminal damages to settle this matter.

 

That's all I got for now.

 

 

 

Edited October 10, 2021 by Gecko123

[Danderman123]

After further review:

 

The wife got the 300K baht from Sathion during her alleged night out drinking, and brought it back to the house. 

 

Sathion went to the house to get his money back. 

 

The Swiss guy had no idea what was going on, and saw an irate Thai man with a gun in his house. 

 

Afterwards, the Swiss Missus bailed out the Swiss guy with the 300K.

 

On Friday, the police searched the house for 300K baht that was already sitting in the police station. 

 

Of course, the Swiss Missus could  explain how she got 300K baht so quickly. Otherwise, she has to give the money to the deceased's family when everything is over. And maybe she goes to jail for theft. The Swiss guy is just collateral damage. 

Edited October 10, 2021 by Danderman123

[Acharn]

On 10/9/2021 at 1:02 PM, xylophone said:

The gun belonged to the Thai intruder, and that has already been established and attested to by relatives and friends, so that's where it came from.

 

As for the first part of your sentence, living here for many years, I don't think anything about Thais, I know because I've seen it first hand many times.

 

The BIB are not the sharpest knives in the drawer and are the most corrupt" division" in Thailand, and that was stated by the Thai ombudsman (or similar) a few years back, and printed in the newspapers.

I had not seen that the ownership of the gun was established. Thanks for telling me. That's important and should have been reported more widely. I've lived here a long time too, and would agree many Thai high ranking police officers seem a bit dim, but if you ever watched the TV show Hogan's Heroes you must remember Sgt. Schulz, "I know nodding, nodding." I generally do not know why Thais do and say whatever it is they do, even when it's obvious they are not being entirely accurate. I'm a little oversensitive to assertions that don't cite evidence since 2016 and the collapse of critical thinking in the U.S.. Well, since 9/11, really, but it went into overdrive after She Who Must Be Elected lost. Also, news media have pretty much lost all credibility.

[fredscats]

6 hours ago, ThaSalaPaul said:

Some people (not you obviously) have the saying "what the eyes don't see the heart doesn't grieve over" close to their own heart. Some people are just weak and give in to temptation. What's true for you in love and fidelity doesn't mean is true for everyone. As you say we will have to agree to disagree.

This is Thailand,again Thailand were guys would s.hag a barbers floor if given a chance

[Dogmatix]

41 minutes ago, Acharn said:

I had not seen that the ownership of the gun was established. Thanks for telling me. That's important and should have been reported more widely. I've lived here a long time too, and would agree many Thai high ranking police officers seem a bit dim, but if you ever watched the TV show Hogan's Heroes you must remember Sgt. Schulz, "I know nodding, nodding." I generally do not know why Thais do and say whatever it is they do, even when it's obvious they are not being entirely accurate. I'm a little oversensitive to assertions that don't cite evidence since 2016 and the collapse of critical thinking in the U.S.. Well, since 9/11, really, but it went into overdrive after She Who Must Be Elected lost. Also, news media have pretty much lost all credibility.

We don’t have the forensics of the gun confirming Sathien was the registered owner, if that was the case, or the match of the bullet in the wall and the angle it was fired from. The police must have already checked the registration which only takes a few minutes but haven’t shared that. What we do have are statements from Sathien’s family that he owned a second hand .38 revolver he bought a couple of years back and his nephew said on Amarin TV it was a registered gun. 
 

the Thai Firearms Act 1947 actually provides a weird exemption for people who carry a concealed registered gun without a P.12 carry permit, if they are carrying large sums of money or valuables. 200k has often been used as the cut off. People caught with a loaded registered gun in their car often argue they were going to an ATM machine to withdraw more than 200k and, if they have money and connections, they can get the case thrown out of court. Sathien may have had this mentality. A Thai friend once claimed he took a loaded gun to the land office because he had to carry over 500k cash. When I expressed surprise. He said it’s normal. Everybody does it. If that’s true, I am surprised there are not more Wild West shoot outs there.
 

Hopefully the police will be getting a toxology report on Sathien. His blood alcohol level and whether he had any speed in him might have a bearing on on what might have happened. To be fair they should also have tested Rudolf and Lakh too since she claimed to be so plastered she was woken up by the gunshot.

[gk10012001]

Not trying to assume the worst, but I have read about many stories of foreigners losing their houses after altercatons with Thais, ex wives, ex wife family members, etc. Seems kind of hard to believe the Thai armed burlger broke in with 300,000 baht on him.  But maybe just a translation issue and 300,000 baht is involved somehow. 

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

On 10/9/2021 at 12:31 AM, Boomer6969 said:

The problem? How long have you been living here? The answer is obvious: The owner is a Farang.

unfortunately true. after all the jocks cracked, the sad reality is

that the police did come to search his house just because he is farang with 300K baht missing, and there is even a chance he might end up in jail unless he pay those "missing" 300K baht...

[fredscats]

5 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

Thought about this case during a 3-4 hour drive this afternoon.

 

Here are my latest thoughts:

 

To put it bluntly, I don't think your wife can be trusted to not use your predicament to her advantage or not to pipeline whatever legal or settlement strategy you are considering over to the opposing party. To put it even more bluntly, she may be more interested in her own welfare or salvaging her relationships and reputation in the community than she is in keeping you out of jail or shelling out civil and criminal damages to settle this matter.

 

That's all I got for now.

 

 

 

The old goat needs to get out of Thailand ASAP,plenty of leaky border places east and south,get to a Swiss embassy,collect travel docs do the covid tests/pay for illegal entry and clear off.  He will have years of torment over this,his wife will ditch him,his bail will be re-set at a ridiculous level,and legal costs will ruin him

The guy deserves everything coming his way if he does not take action of his own accord

[Stargeezr]

Money is the route of all evil.  The money was either.

1. Spent already.

2. in some tin can in one of the houses. 

3. in a safe.

4. In a bank account, (doubtfully)

5. in safe keeping with the police department.

  I do hope that there is a follow up story to this, but i doubt

that there will be, as it is already yesterdays news.

Geezer

[rjlee1]

The legal rights of farangs (or lack thereof) is a big consideration as to why I and some of my friends married to Thai women choose NOT to retire to Thailand.

 

Who was it that originally commented that a country will always be "third world" until the corruption is brought under control (Lee Kwan Yew)?

[Gecko123]

9 hours ago, fredscats said:

The old goat needs to get out of Thailand ASAP,plenty of leaky border places east and south,get to a Swiss embassy,collect travel docs do the covid tests/pay for illegal entry and clear off.  He will have years of torment over this,his wife will ditch him,his bail will be re-set at a ridiculous level,and legal costs will ruin him

The guy deserves everything coming his way if he does not take action of his own accord

Just shooting the breeze here, but you're not seriously suggesting he should jump bail and go on the lam, are you? Fleeing from a place to avoid arrest or trial can often be admitted as evidence of consciousness of guilt. That is certainly how it would be viewed by the police, the media, and in the court of public opinion. Not to mention his chances of being recaptured are very high, given that his face (note: distinctive beard) has been plastered all over news and social media for 10 days straight now.

Edited October 11, 2021 by Gecko123

[ThaSalaPaul]

10 hours ago, fredscats said:

This is Thailand,again Thailand were guys would s.hag a barbers floor if given a chance

I'm really not sure how your comment and mine are related, but that is a sweeping generalisation your making. There do appear to be a lot of those on these forums though.

[Gecko123]

14 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

After further review:

 

The wife got the 300K baht from Sathion during her alleged night out drinking, and brought it back to the house. 

 

Sathion went to the house to get his money back. 

 

The Swiss guy had no idea what was going on, and saw an irate Thai man with a gun in his house. 

 

Afterwards, the Swiss Missus bailed out the Swiss guy with the 300K.

 

On Friday, the police searched the house for 300K baht that was already sitting in the police station. 

 

Of course, the Swiss Missus could  explain how she got 300K baht so quickly. Otherwise, she has to give the money to the deceased's family when everything is over. And maybe she goes to jail for theft. The Swiss guy is just collateral damage. 

"The wife "got" the money from Setiyon?"

 

Is it your theory that she stole it from him? How does that jibe with the stories from his mother and family members that he was madly in love with her and had previously bestowed at least one lavish gift of money on her (after sale of cattle) in the past?

 

"Sathion went to the house to get his money back. The Swiss guy had no idea what was going on, and saw an irate Thai man with a gun in his house."

 

Let's say for a moment Lak did steal the money from Setiyon or even that Setiyon gave her the money, but later that evening changed his mind and wanted it back, and came to the house to ask or demand that Lak return the money, but encounters Rudolf. Setiyon knows Rudolf is totally in the dark about him giving his wife money. If Rudolf's sitting there, at that point Setiyon realizes he can't talk to Lak and sends her a text message or calls her and grins sheepishly and makes some noises about "sorry, wrong house..." and beats a hasty retreat. Setiyon's not going to involve Rudolf in his efforts to retrieve his money because then he'd have to explain how Lak came into possession of money belonging to Satiyon. Awkward...

 

Afterwards, the Swiss Missus bailed out the Swiss guy with the 300K [that she received or stole from Satiyon]

 

It is entirely possible that the police allowed Rudolf to go to the bank and withdraw the bail money on his own. If that's the case, then obviously neither the fingerprints of Setiyon or the buyers of the land he sold are going to be found on the bail money.

 

But if Lak was charged with withdrawing the bail money, even if she secretly had 300K in cash on hand because Setiyon had given it to her or she took it from him that night, she still would have had to go to the bank and gone through the ruse of withdrawing 300K because otherwise she would have had to explain where the 300K came from as soon as Rudolf realized that no 300K withdrawal on his account had been made. In that scenario, she's in possession of both Setiyon's 290K cash and the 300K withdrawn for the bail. My thinking is that, maybe, in the heat of the moment, it never occurred to Lak that either Setiyon's or the buyers of the land's fingerprints were on some of the bills and without considering this possibility, she inadvertently may have used some of Setiyon's money to pay the bail.

 

If the fingerprints of Setiyon or the buyers of the land were on the bail money, this would link the bail money to either Rudolf and/or Lak. Yes, she could claim that she was given the money as a gift, but that would raise a ton of questions about when and why she was given the money. And it would also most likely mean that she had additional contact with him later in the day he died, which would increase suspicion and pressure from the police that she must know more than she is telling about why he came to the house that night.

 

Edited October 11, 2021 by Gecko123

[inThailand]

Family wants the supposedly missing 300K.

 

Another fine example how money trumps everything here, including a dead family member. 

[metisdead]

A troll post has been removed.