All 3 major vaccines as good as each other.

[mommysboy]

AZ/Moderna/Pfizer

 

90% effective at preventing serious illness.  

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/11/french-study-vaccines-cut-covid-deaths

 

No point being a fanboy.

 

 

 

 

[placeholder]

But according to a huge study  done  in the UK that is admittedly not yet peer reviewed,, AZ was less effective at stopping transmission than the Pfizer Biontech vaccine.

  

Vaccines cut Covid transmission risk but only 90-day protection against Delta: Oxford study

Study, yet to be peer-reviewed, says vaccinated individuals infected with Delta have lower odds of spreading virus if they got Pfizer shot than if they received AstraZeneca-Oxford.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02261-8

[mommysboy]

18 minutes ago, placeholder said:

But according to a huge study  done  in the UK that is admittedly not yet peer reviewed,, AZ was less effective at stopping transmission than the Pfizer Biontech vaccine.

  

Vaccines cut Covid transmission risk but only 90-day protection against Delta: Oxford study

Study, yet to be peer-reviewed, says vaccinated individuals infected with Delta have lower odds of spreading virus if they got Pfizer shot than if they received AstraZeneca-Oxford.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02261-8

Yes but, no but, yes but.

 

And according to another study AZ prevented more deaths, but they're all about the same where it really counts.

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Yes but, no but, yes but.

 

And according to another study AZ prevented more deaths, but they're all about the same where it really counts.

Transmission is important. Still, AZ is an excellent vaccine, unjustly traduced. I'm anti Brexit myself, but I strongly suspect that one of the reasons the EU jumped so hard on AZ was anti Brexit sentiment. But obviously, I can't prove that.

[gk10012001]

why leave johnson johnson out of it

[bkk6060]

10 minutes ago, gk10012001 said:

why leave johnson johnson out of it

Worldwide is is used a lot less then the other three.

 

 

[gk10012001]

2 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Worldwide is is used a lot less then the other three.

 

 

That's no reason

[atpeace]

For healthy individuals which is miniscule percentage of the developed world and even in Thailand the unhealthy are growing exponentially, any vaccine out there is adequate IMO.  I'm fully vaccinated with a Chinese vaccine and do not have any regrets.  

 

Get vaccinated with whatever is available and start living a healthy life is a viable option.  Doubt this pandemic would have even been a major lasting news story if the world population had a BMI of < 25.  It is a personal choice and if over indulgence brings a person satisfaction then have fun! Most are intelligent enough to know the risks of this behavior and the behavior trumps the risks.  In reality, Covid is far from the greatest long term risk for the unhealthy.  

 

It is time to party on and let people live a life of personal choice.  The hatred out in the word is much more damaging than Covid ever has or will be IMO.

[Chomper Higgot]

Too much choice is often a bad thing.

 

The madness of eschewing an available vaccine and risking COVID while waiting for the uncertain possibility of an alternative vaccine is an example.

 

Get on the first available bus going in your general direction, the next might not turn up in time.

[rabas]

Two equal and one would've been equal except for a major flaw.

 

AZ is the only vaccine to suffer 'anti-vector response' out of the gate where the body becomes immune to the vaccine itself. This is why you must wait a long time for the second dose. Oxford themselves now suggest 45 weeks is optimal ! In the mean time, you are left partially protected during a pandemic.  The Russians avoided this by using two different adenoviruses, J&J by using one shot.

Antivector response may also become problematic for all adenovirus vaccines if COVID becomes a long term issue. Read here:

 

Clinical Trials Arena: "Adenovirus-vectored Covid-19 vaccines’ efficacy during a potential re-vaccination campaign likely to be stifled by antivector response."

 

So no, not 3 equal.

 

Edited October 12, 2021 by rabas

[Jingthing]

6 hours ago, placeholder said:

Transmission is important. Still, AZ is an excellent vaccine, unjustly traduced. I'm anti Brexit myself, but I strongly suspect that one of the reasons the EU jumped so hard on AZ was anti Brexit sentiment. But obviously, I can't prove that.

AZ also has the advantage of not being an mRNA vaccine for the large segment of populations that don't trust mRNAs because they're perceived as too new or scary. 

 

Speaking of new, traduced is a new word to me and that's not scary.

[placeholder]

35 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

AZ also has the advantage of not being an mRNA vaccine for the large segment of populations that don't trust mRNAs because they're perceived as too new or scary. 

 

Speaking of new, traduced is a new word to me and that's not scary.

As a child, I was forced to read Victorian era novels. I'd like to sue my school system but I think the Statute of Limitations rules that out.

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, rabas said:

Two equal and one would've been equal except for a major flaw.

 

AZ is the only vaccine to suffer 'anti-vector response' out of the gate where the body becomes immune to the vaccine itself. This is why you must wait a long time for the second dose. Oxford themselves now suggest 45 weeks is optimal ! In the mean time, you are left partially protected during a pandemic.  The Russians avoided this by using two different adenoviruses, J&J by using one shot.

Antivector response may also become problematic for all adenovirus vaccines if COVID becomes a long term issue. Read here:

 

Clinical Trials Arena: "Adenovirus-vectored Covid-19 vaccines’ efficacy during a potential re-vaccination campaign likely to be stifled by antivector response."

 

So no, not 3 equal.

 

Well, is there any evidence that this is actually a problem? And the page you linked to doesn't reference the "anti vector response" at all. It doesn't say that the response to the second inoculation is inadequate. Merely that it's even better if delayed. As it points out, this is actually good news for poorer nations that may face delays in inoculating its populace with a 2nd dose. AZ continues to perform excellently in reducing hospitalization and mortality.

 "Two doses of the Pfizer/BioNTech or Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine are estimated to be 96% and 92% effective against hospitalisation with the Delta variant, respectively. Deaths involving COVID-19 are consistently lower for people who have received two vaccinations."

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19latestinsights/vaccines

[mommysboy]

8 hours ago, gk10012001 said:

why leave johnson johnson out of it

Not enough data for this study.  It hasn't been widely available. You're quite right though- it is a major vaccine in the sense of effectiveness at 2 doses.

[mommysboy]

2 hours ago, rabas said:

Two equal and one would've been equal except for a major flaw.

 

AZ is the only vaccine to suffer 'anti-vector response' out of the gate where the body becomes immune to the vaccine itself. This is why you must wait a long time for the second dose. Oxford themselves now suggest 45 weeks is optimal ! In the mean time, you are left partially protected during a pandemic.  The Russians avoided this by using two different adenoviruses, J&J by using one shot.

Antivector response may also become problematic for all adenovirus vaccines if COVID becomes a long term issue. Read here:

 

Clinical Trials Arena: "Adenovirus-vectored Covid-19 vaccines’ efficacy during a potential re-vaccination campaign likely to be stifled by antivector response."

 

So no, not 3 equal.

 

I think then the clue is with the Sputnik vaccine, even assuming it's the major flaw you allege.

 

Speculation really.  

 

I think it's accepted that a mix and match approach will be the likely norm, as it is with the flu vaccine.

 

On the whole, I would say your posting is not responsible, and you keep posting it.

[rabas]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

Well, is there any evidence that this is actually a problem? And the page you linked to doesn't reference the "anti vector response" at all.

It does! The title of the referenced page reads:... Adenovirus-vectored Covid-19 vaccines’ efficacy ... likely to be stifled by antivector response.   Again the reference: [Clinical Trials Arena]

 

Here's a long science paper [click here] describing OAZ's efforts to deal with antivector response, starting with the low 60.3% efficacy in the Brazilian trial, likely due to AVR. They first tried to lower the initial dose to prevent AVR, which was globally not accepted without a new trial. Then they started delaying the second dose. IOW, it is a well known issue AZ and ADV vaccines.

 

Aside this significant problem, its a fine vaccine, I am happily AZ double zapped, waiting, and waiting, for my Modera ....

[Fab5BKK]

9 hours ago, gk10012001 said:

why leave johnson johnson out of it

from the article "The Janssen one-dose shot, authorised later in France, was not included as the researchers felt there had not been enough patients or time to properly study its effectiveness."

 

From another source ( https://www.lefigaro.fr/sciences/vaccination-covid-19-rendez-vous-paris-pfizer-astrazeneca-johnson-moderna-calendrier-doses-20210428 )"In Europe, four vaccines have so far been authorized by the European Commission after approval from the European Medicines Agency (EMA): 

*The German-American Pfizer / BioNTech on December 21,

* The American Moderna on January 6,

* The Anglo-Swedish AstraZeneca / Oxford on January 29,

* The vaccine American Johnson & Johnson developed by its subsidiary Janssen was approved on March 11 in Europe. They immediately obtained market authorization from the French National Authority for Health."

 

https://covidtracker.fr/vaccintracker/

Edited October 12, 2021 by Fab5BKK

[Fab5BKK]

[rabas]

27 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Speculation really.  

 

I think it's accepted that a mix and match approach will be the likely norm, as it is with the flu vaccine.

 

On the whole, I would say your posting is not responsible, and you keep posting it.

Far from speculative. More from Reuters:  AstraZeneca, Sputnik vaccines face hurdles if COVID shots become annual affair

 

Also see [Expert Opinions] scroll to Prof Helen Fletcher, Professor of Immunology in London.  "The AZD1222 vaccine given alone would prime an immune response against spike protein – but also prime a response against the vaccine itself" Known in Dec 2020.

 

Which is more responsible?  Repeating that AZ is equal to the best or point out the issue? When planning my family's vaccine program is was helpful to understand the delays and  possible advantage of longer delays.  I even considered  AZ--Moderna-Moderna--AZ to maximize AZ's response. But Thailand's GAO would not provide happiness.

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, rabas said:

Far from speculative. More from Reuters:  AstraZeneca, Sputnik vaccines face hurdles if COVID shots become annual affair

 

Also see [Expert Opinions] scroll to Prof Helen Fletcher, Professor of Immunology in London.  "The AZD1222 vaccine given alone would prime an immune response against spike protein – but also prime a response against the vaccine itself" Known in Dec 2020.

 

Which is more responsible?  Repeating that AZ is equal to the best or point out the issue? When planning my family's vaccine program is was helpful to understand the delays and  possible advantage of longer delays.  I even considered  AZ--Moderna-Moderna--AZ to maximize AZ's response. But Thailand's GAO would not provide happiness.

They all have issues!

 

But endless abstraction about a possible future problem that in any case can be easily overcome takes away from the here and now, and the very real effectiveness of the AZ vaccine.  

 

If you like putting your mind things, and I note your extremely good in this respect: at the moment I'm left high and dry on one dose of Pfizer, with the fear I may not be able to get another. What can I do to salvage this situation? 

[mfd101]

10 hours ago, gk10012001 said:

That's no reason

The answer is in the Guardian article above.

[chilly07]

Looks like vaccination is going to be replaced by oral antivirals next year anyway

[millymoopoo]

9 hours ago, atpeace said:

Get vaccinated with whatever is available and start living a healthy life is a viable option.

Couldn't agree more.!

Any vaccine is better than none, and if you were unlucky enough to have  had the only choice, one of the Chinese vaccines, get an mRNA booster.

Only last week we hear from the UK that in time the effectiveness of Pfiser reduces by 20% but AZ only reduces by 7%.

In Australia it is recommended those vaccinated with AZ should get a Moderna (mRNA) as a booster.

Many Thai nationals only get the option of Sinovac/AZ, perhaps later, when there's enough they may get an mRNA booster, Pfiser or Moderna.

And get healthy.!

The more healthy you are the better your chances of a long life.

If you haven't already, it's time to get off the durries and give up the turps.!

Better to die with your boots on at 100 than wither away from some lifestyle disease at 70.

[MrJ2U]

Reassuring report.

 

Nothing on the two Chinese vaccines.

 

Transparency is so important for confidence.

 

Yet, once again theres really not much in studies (peer reviewed) with the Delta variant despite its wide use in poor countries.

 

Thats worrisome as WHO is buying over 100 million doses to  deliver to poorer countries, including Thailand.

 

 

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

again yet another prestigious study combines death and hospital risks, using the lowest common 90% denominator. WHY ? Different Events / Vax / Risk. Politics veneered on Science …again..

and groups all three vax as if equally effective. WHY ? Above the Common 90% They Are Not. 

For Example, AZ 100% effective against Covid Death ( FDA Phase III Trials), 90% for Hospital (same).

Pfixer 96% for Death ( same).

[MrJ2U]

18 hours ago, placeholder said:

But according to a huge study  done  in the UK that is admittedly not yet peer reviewed,, AZ was less effective at stopping transmission than the Pfizer Biontech vaccine.

  

Vaccines cut Covid transmission risk but only 90-day protection against Delta: Oxford study

Study, yet to be peer-reviewed, says vaccinated individuals infected with Delta have lower odds of spreading virus if they got Pfizer shot than if they received AstraZeneca-Oxford.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02261-8

Interesting.

 

I guess Moderna wasn't in that study.

 

[MrJ2U]

18 hours ago, placeholder said:

But according to a huge study  done  in the UK that is admittedly not yet peer reviewed,, AZ was less effective at stopping transmission than the Pfizer Biontech vaccine.

  

Vaccines cut Covid transmission risk but only 90-day protection against Delta: Oxford study

Study, yet to be peer-reviewed, says vaccinated individuals infected with Delta have lower odds of spreading virus if they got Pfizer shot than if they received AstraZeneca-Oxford.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02261-8

I found this interesting about breakthrough with the Pfeizer and Moderna:

 

Moderna seemed much better at containing the Delta variant than Pfeizer.

 

"That study found the risk of suffering a breakthrough COVID-19 infection with the delta variant after being fully vaccinated with the Moderna vaccine may be much lower than the risk for those who received the Pfizer vaccine."

 

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/coronavirus/moderna-vs-pfizer-is-one-vaccine-stronger-against-delta-variant/2603249/

[rabas]

54 minutes ago, MrJ2U said:

I found this interesting about breakthrough with the Pfeizer and Moderna:

 

Moderna seemed much better at containing the Delta variant than Pfeizer.

 

"That study found the risk of suffering a breakthrough COVID-19 infection with the delta variant after being fully vaccinated with the Moderna vaccine may be much lower than the risk for those who received the Pfizer vaccine."

 

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/coronavirus/moderna-vs-pfizer-is-one-vaccine-stronger-against-delta-variant/2603249/

Immunity is complex but a Moderna shot is significantly stronger than a Pfizer shot, 100 micrograms of mRNA versus 30µg for Pfizer.  Otherwise their mRNA is from the same patented design.

 

Nature, July 2021: Quarter-dose of Moderna COVID vaccine still rouses a big immune response

 

[MrJ2U]

45 minutes ago, rabas said:

Immunity is complex but a Moderna shot is significantly stronger than a Pfizer shot, 100 micrograms of mRNA versus 30µg for Pfizer.  Otherwise their mRNA is from the same patented design.

 

Nature, July 2021: Quarter-dose of Moderna COVID vaccine still rouses a big immune response

 

I got the Pfeizer.

 

Still waiting for Moderna for my wife and Yai.

 

 

[cdemundo]

13 hours ago, chilly07 said:

Looks like vaccination is going to be replaced by oral antivirals next year anyway

Risky approach since the oral antivirals are not 100% effective.