Can Thailand beat Malaysia and Singapore in the race to lure wealthy foreigners?

[vandeventer]

3 hours ago, mokwit said:

Visa is for five years because they just want their money to help Thailand recover from the pandemic and then they would like them to leave.

 

 

Heck, just come on in we won't even check your bags as we know they are full of money!

[NanaSomchai]

13 minutes ago, vandeventer said:

Heck, just come on in we won't even check your bags as we know they are full of money!

The thing is, even purely from a money approach, Thailand has lost it's appeal:

 

- The sharp continous rise of the THB currency against GBP/EUR/USD makes it trivial to want to invest in the Kingdom.

- The always increasing cost of living in Thailand has squashed the retirement dreams for most of us, Thailand no longer classifies as a "cheap" retirement/traveling/leisure destination.

 

And that's just the money aspect of things with all the rest being put aside.

 

The Thailand of post 2015 is no longer a bang for your buck. Period.

Edited October 14, 2021 by NanaSomchai

[hotchilli]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

Thailand wants wealthy foreigners to settle down in the Southeast Asian nation after the pandemic, and is looking to lure them with possible perks including longer-term leases and tax remittances – but analysts are unsure whether the scheme can rival similar packages from the likes of Malaysia and Singapore

Thailand hasn't got a hope in hell.

[NanaSomchai]

2 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

Thailand hasn't got a hope in hell.

Not with the current xenophobic junta government asleep at the wheel, that's for sure.

[hotchilli]

3 hours ago, lkn said:

And invest in the country.

 

It’s disappointing to hear someone say “we want a million wealthy people to come, so we get a cash flow” rather than “we want to make our cities so appealing that even wealthy people want to live here”.

You've got it in a nut-shell... 

Lure them here with tricks and a short-term future.

Not give them a long term future so they invest and stay.

Everything in Thailand is geared around "short-term" it has nothing else to offer.

[IamNoone88]

Short reasons why Singapore always out classes and attract wealth;

 

1. Stable and non-corrupt Govt

2. The rule of law

3. Low crime, few drugs. It is safe.

4. Efficient and modern systems and infrastructure. Traffic moves.

5. Low tax

6. A business focussed and robust financial infrastructure

7. World class airport and fast immigration clearance

8. World class education for children

9. Excellent restaurants

10. They all speak English

 

And yes, you can buy a condo freehold and apply to own a landed property if you qualify.

[LivinLOS]

4 hours ago, The Cipher said:

It depends on what 'wealthy' means. Can Thailand outcompete Singapore for UHNW individuals? Unlikely. Can it outcompete Singapore for folks in the $1-10M asset range? It's possible but will depend on intelligently crafted policy.

 

Should easily outcompete Malaysia at all $1M+ wealth levels.

Malaysia MM2H policy was a solid offering.. For less than 75K USD deposited in a Malay bank you could purchase 2 homes outright (one on land one condo in the city I think) import 1 luxury car for your own personal use (x years not sold) or buy a local new car entirely tax free that alone would save the entry cost and a whole slew of small but welcoming things like you get a local ID card which allows local pricing on tickets attractions, tourist stuff etc. Their local non local pricing systems are ones which far more clearly operate to a fair structure of resident non resident not just 'looks like me, doesnt look like me' as applied here. 

All in all the Malay offering was fairly strong and leagues ahead of what Thailand is proposing. They have just gone and changed all the requirements to far higher income levels but there seems a lot of pushback from senior Malays so its not fully clear if that will be kept or not. 

 

[Henryford]

chad3000 - a gree with most of your points but not the dental service. I think the dentists here are good and reasonably priced but then i am coming from the abysmal dental service in the UK.

[NanaSomchai]

4 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Malaysia MM2H policy was a solid offering.. For less than 75K USD deposited in a Malay bank you could purchase 2 homes outright (one on land one condo in the city I think) import 1 luxury car for your own personal use (x years not sold) or buy a local new car entirely tax free that alone would save the entry cost and a whole slew of small but welcoming things like you get a local ID card which allows local pricing on tickets attractions, tourist stuff etc. Their local non local pricing systems are ones which far more clearly operate to a fair structure of resident non resident not just 'looks like me, doesnt look like me' as applied here. 

All in all the Malay offering was fairly strong and leagues ahead of what Thailand is proposing. They have just gone and changed all the requirements to far higher income levels but there seems a lot of pushback from senior Malays so its not fully clear if that will be kept or not. 

 

As nice as this sounds, Malaysia is a muslim country I believe and for me that is a clear no-go (re: working girls and alcohol).

[sirineou]

1 hour ago, StayinThailand2much said:

They will probably go for the 'easy' money from China. Some Chinese are keen to 'get their money out of China', for whatever reasons.

Yes indeed. I agree. and it is smart on the part of the Thais IMO, Always go for the low hanging fruit.

If you are Chines and wealthy , it is always  a good idea to keep some of your money outside China to protect against the possibility of a quick exit. 

[LivinLOS]

3 minutes ago, NanaSomchai said:

As nice as this sounds, Malaysia is a muslim country I believe and for me that is a clear no-go (re: working girls and alcohol).

You do understand that some people can live without whores and open beer bars though yes ??

Obtaining alcohol is zero issue (in fact usually cheaper than Thailand on decent non local stuff). 

[The Cipher]

Quote

The always increasing cost of living in Thailand has squashed the retirement dreams for most of us, Thailand no longer classifies as a "cheap" retirement/traveling/leisure destination.

The Thailand of post 2015 is no longer a bang for your buck. Period.

Debated whether I should write this comment. Decided to do it.

 

A lot of posters seem to write that Thailand isn't cheap anymore, and I don't know where this idea comes from. Like, can you live luxuriously in Thailand on a minimum gov pension? Maybe not. But why would you expect to be able to do that anywhere?

 

Rather, here's a basic example of how I see it. Let's say I have $2,000/mth budgeted to spend on rent. What would my money get me in other global cities I enjoy vs. what would it get me in Bangkok? The difference is huge. Like, it's legit enormous. You can apply that same comparison framework to pretty much everything except for lux consumer goods and cars.

 

Dining out, going to the cinema, consumer services, utilities, public/hired transportation etc. That list could go on for a long time. At pretty much every level of quality, you are getting better value for your dollar. 

[NanaSomchai]

1 minute ago, LivinLOS said:

You do understand that some people can live without whores and open beer bars though yes ??

I do understand, but you have to look at the context; What does Thailand offer apart from whores and opened beer bars that other countries in either South America or even yet South Europe (Portugal, Italy, Greece, Malta, etc) don't have?

 

The answer is: Nothing.

[LivinLOS]

1 minute ago, NanaSomchai said:

I do understand, but you have to look at the context; What does Thailand offer apart from whores and opened beer bars that other countries in either South America or even yet South Europe (Portugal, Italy, Greece, Malta, etc) don't have?

 

The answer is: Nothing.

But cheap whores and scruffy beer bars might not be the biggest temptation to multi millionaires anyway.. 

[Orinoco]

6 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

You do understand that some people can live without whores and open beer bars though yes ??
 

No

[LivinLOS]

5 minutes ago, The Cipher said:

Debated whether I should write this comment. Decided to do it.

 

A lot of posters seem to write that Thailand isn't cheap anymore, and I don't know where this idea comes from. Like, can you live luxuriously in Thailand on a minimum gov pension? Maybe not. But why would you expect to be able to do that anywhere?

 

Rather, here's a basic example of how I see it. Let's say I have $2,000/mth budgeted to spend on rent. What would my money get me in other global cities I enjoy vs. what would it get me in Bangkok? The difference is huge. Like, it's legit enormous. You can apply that same comparison framework to pretty much everything except for lux consumer goods and cars.

 

Dining out, going to the cinema, consumer services, utilities, public/hired transportation etc. That list could go on for a long time. At pretty much every level of quality, you are getting better value for your dollar. 

Thailand is cheap.. For low quality.. 

Thailand is not cheap.. For luxury goods, or items. 

Had this debate 100s of times but if your saying Thailand is cheap, what your saying is you don't spend money on fine goods and higher end luxury items much. 

[mokwit]

17 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Malaysia MM2H policy was a solid offering.

Not if they don't grandfather people into the new requirements. About as solid as our presence here.

[LivinLOS]

Just now, mokwit said:

Not if they don't grandfather people into the new requirements. About as solid as our presence here.

They have said they are.. so... 

[mokwit]

15 minutes ago, Henryford said:

chad3000 - a gree with most of your points but not the dental service. I think the dentists here are good and reasonably priced but then i am coming from the abysmal dental service in the UK.

This is true, but some are so good they even give you extra fillings you didn't need.

[NanaSomchai]

12 minutes ago, The Cipher said:

Debated whether I should write this comment. Decided to do it.

 

A lot of posters seem to write that Thailand isn't cheap anymore, and I don't know where this idea comes from. Like, can you live luxuriously in Thailand on a minimum gov pension? Maybe not. But why would you expect to be able to do that anywhere?

 

Rather, here's a basic example of how I see it. Let's say I have $2,000/mth budgeted to spend on rent. What would my money get me in other global cities I enjoy vs. what would it get me in Bangkok? The difference is huge. Like, it's legit enormous. You can apply that same comparison framework to pretty much everything except for lux consumer goods and cars.

 

Dining out, going to the cinema, consumer services, utilities, public/hired transportation etc. That list could go on for a long time. At pretty much every level of quality, you are getting better value for your dollar. 

Okay, I'll bite.

 

Portugal is one destination where one could retire; if you are coming from another EU country, you are free to stay 6 months at a time, no visas required, no questions asked. After a year spent in Portugal you are eligible for PR, fill two forms, two pictures and a fingerprint scan, total cost is 10.50$. After three more years you may apply for the citizenship, you de facto becoming a Portuguese citizen and a EU passport holder (the PT passport is ranked highly in the World).

 

As for your cost of living, you can move to Lisbon the economical capital of the country, and apply for a social apartment, the average waiting time is 3 years, once you get it, you can expect a 35$ monthly rent for the council/local authority.

 

The Cascais beaches are immaculate and only 59 minutes away by train from the center of Lisbon, the country has one of the nicest weathers in all of Europe, there is zero police corruption and the state/government is taking care of all your needs albeit a bit slowly.

 

I am sure there are other retrirement destinations that may be worth looking into, I can only speak of what I know, I don't speculate, therefore you should do your own research.

Edited October 14, 2021 by NanaSomchai

[jacko45k]

5 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Had this debate 100s of times but if your saying Thailand is cheap, what your saying is you don't spend money on fine goods and higher end luxury items much. 

Well I won't be buying a Bentley or Italian sport car from a Bangkok dealer, that is for sure. Might have to visit a senior Thai policeman. 

[khunpa]

Thailand has historically mostly attracted backpackers, digital nomads, middle-class families and sex-tourists. 
 

They should stick to what they have been good at, because nobody rich and with common sense would invest millions here. 

 

Right now they should be happy if they can get just 1 million poor people to visit.

[realfunster]

22 minutes ago, NanaSomchai said:

As nice as this sounds, Malaysia is a muslim country I believe and for me that is a clear no-go (re: working girls and alcohol).

 

I believe both are readily available in KL and possibly all over the more liberal western side of the country. IIRC the eastern side is more strictly Muslim. 

 

Even if not, its easy enough to fly to Phuket or BKK for a few days “R&R” right ?

 

[nobodysfriend]

43 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

Thailand hasn't got a hope in hell.

I do not think so .

I think that most expat posters on this forum overestimate their importance in the eyes of the government .

Ok , wealthy tourists will be welcome to spend their money , but , Thailand will focus more on business with China .

They signed several contracts with the chinese already and chinese investment in Thailand is strongly increasing . China is just ' round the corner ' and will be connected to Thailand via high speed train soon .

 

https://www.scb.co.th/en/personal-banking/stories/business-maker/china-investment-in-thailand.html?et_blog&id=26654

 

" SCB has analyzed the investment trend of China in Thailand and believes that China views Thailand as a high potential country for being a trade center for the ASEAN market. "

 

China is still in a trade war with the US and faces new sanctions . Chinese investors are seeking places outside of mainland China to manufacture .

Thailand is second on that list just after Vietnam .

 

"China became the first country that applied for receiving the BOI Investment Promotion at 2.9 hundred billion baht covering 270 projects; an average of 1 billion baht per project. Even though China faced a COVID-19 crisis over the first half of 2020, they invested 120 projects in Thailand. "

 

That is what the thai governmant focuses on , even more than the revival of tourism .

[DaveSamutP]

Singapore has the most wealthy foreign millionaires per capita in the world. 

 

So, I guess the answer is "no" 

 

Such clowns, these guys 

[hotchilli]

7 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

Ok , wealthy tourists will be welcome to spend their money , but , Thailand will focus more on business with China

China and a few other S.E.Asean nations yes I agree... but Thailands love affair with luring wealthy European businessmen to invest heavily is a pipe-dream.

Thailand is too unstable for their liking, China knows it's safe whatever happens.

[nobodysfriend]

16 minutes ago, NanaSomchai said:

Okay, I'll bite.

 

Portugal is one destination where one could retire; if you are coming from another EU country, you are free to stay 6 months at a time, no visas required, no questions asked. After a year spent in Portugal you are eligible for PR, fill two forms, two pictures and a fingerprint scan, total cost is 10.50$. After three more years you may apply for the citizenship, you de facto becoming a Portuguese citizen and a EU passport holder (the PT passport is ranked highly in the World).

 

As for your cost of living, you can move to Lisbon the economical capital of the country, and apply for a social apartment, the average waiting time is 3 years, once you get it, you can expect a 35$ monthly rent for the council/local authority.

 

The Cascais beaches are immaculate and only 59 minutes away by train from the center of Lisbon, the country has one of the nicest weathers in all of Europe, there is zero police corruption and the state/government is taking care of all your needs albeit a bit slowly.

 

I am sure there are other retrirement destinations that may be worth looking into, I can only speak of what I know, I don't speculate, therefore you should do your own research.

I lived in Lagos , Portugal , for nearly 10 yrs . Was a damn good time . That was the '80s ' . I left when all the big hotels were built . Went back to visit in 2010 , but did not like it any more ... The ' progress ' destroyed so much .

Retire there now ? Possible , but I still prefer it here ...

[DaveSamutP]

8 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

I do not think so .

I think that most expat posters on this forum overestimate their importance in the eyes of the government .

Ok , wealthy tourists will be welcome to spend their money , but , Thailand will focus more on business with China .

They signed several contracts with the chinese already and chinese investment in Thailand is strongly increasing . China is just ' round the corner ' and will be connected to Thailand via high speed train soon .

 

https://www.scb.co.th/en/personal-banking/stories/business-maker/china-investment-in-thailand.html?et_blog&id=26654

 

" SCB has analyzed the investment trend of China in Thailand and believes that China views Thailand as a high potential country for being a trade center for the ASEAN market. "

 

China is still in a trade war with the US and faces new sanctions . Chinese investors are seeking places outside of mainland China to manufacture .

Thailand is second on that list just after Vietnam .

 

"China became the first country that applied for receiving the BOI Investment Promotion at 2.9 hundred billion baht covering 270 projects; an average of 1 billion baht per project. Even though China faced a COVID-19 crisis over the first half of 2020, they invested 120 projects in Thailand. "

 

That is what the thai governmant focuses on , even more than the revival of tourism .

All the things you mention have little impact on whether Thailand will attract wealthy expats to live and retire. 

 

To the truly wealthy expat, Thailand is NOT the list of places to base themselves and store their wealth. Thailand. What wealthy person will risk the lack of the legal protections on their investments? Most wealthy people are not daft. 

 

The Thais simply can't understand that their country and culture cannot attract large numbers of wealthy foreigners. It will not happen until the culture changes in some rather dramatic ways. 

 

We will all be back here in 12 months saying the exact same things 

[mokwit]

7 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

They have said they are.. so... 

They have NOW said they are..

[Brickbat]

Wealthy people know how to think