Can Thailand beat Malaysia and Singapore in the race to lure wealthy foreigners?

[Caldera]

Wrong question, those two countries aren't really in the same category as Thailand.

[The Cipher]

42 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Thailand is not cheap.. For luxury goods, or items. 

Had this debate 100s of times but if your saying Thailand is cheap, what your saying is you don't spend money on fine goods and higher end luxury items much. 

But no, tho. I literally wrote in my post that Thailand was a bad place to buy luxury consumer goods. Asia in general is a bad place to buy those goods.

 

Anyone who actually has wealth knows that (i) intercontinental travel is a multiple-time per year activity. You can take advantage of price differences during travel that you were going to do anyway; and (ii) you very quickly run out of consumer goods to buy so that the relative price matters less anyway.

 

You don't even have to be particularly rich to understand the above paragraph. Like, pretty much anyone who has been a six fig earner for 3+ years will know that it actually gets harder to spend the money on consumer goods as time goes on because there's just less that you want/need to buy.

Also, luxury consumer goods in Thailand were never cheap. So they wouldn't even be relevant to folks who are complaining that the country is no longer cheap.

 

I will agree to join you in hating on the car import tax tho. Still waiting for someone to tell me how to get around that (not a joke).

 

51 minutes ago, NanaSomchai said:

I am sure there are other retrirement destinations that may be worth looking into, I can only speak of what I know, I don't speculate, therefore you should do your own research.

Thanks. I appreciate the good-faith recommendations but am not thinking about retiring for some time yet ????

---

I would never suggest that someone stay in Thailand if they are happier elsewhere. But I also won't pretend that the country doesn't still offer good value per dollar spent.

One of the main reasons I decided to build out a second home in Bangkok was specifically because I had an equivalent-or-better lifestyle to what I'd enjoy in Singapore, Seoul or Hong Kong (the other options I considered) but at a significantly better price.

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, NanaSomchai said:

The thing is, even purely from a money approach, Thailand has lost it's appeal:

 

- The sharp continous rise of the THB currency against GBP/EUR/USD makes it trivial to want to invest in the Kingdom.

- The always increasing cost of living in Thailand has squashed the retirement dreams for most of us, Thailand no longer classifies as a "cheap" retirement/traveling/leisure destination.

 

And that's just the money aspect of things with all the rest being put aside.

 

The Thailand of post 2015 is no longer a bang for your buck. Period.

Just not true,

Currency predictors suggest the GBP/Bht will be back to 50 next year, which is the same rate as when I arrived in 2009.

Housing here is as cheap as anywhere in the world, my home mortgage repayments are 9kbht/month, taxes and utils add another 2kbht/month. My last winter in the UK I paid 400 pounds just to fill the central heating oil tank, and my rent was 1,600pounds/month..

 

Thailand is great value for money compared to the UK.

As for Malaysia ......... can't imagine any non-Muslim wanting to live there by choice.

Edited October 14, 2021 by BritManToo

[mikebell]

5 hours ago, Chad3000 said:

26. What's the draw? What EXACTLY is the government selling?? I mean really...

Wild dogs?

[NanaSomchai]

15 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Currency predictors suggest the GBP/Bht will be back to 50 next year

I'm looking forward to it, I won't be holding my breath though.

 

Edit: Also, source?

Edited October 14, 2021 by NanaSomchai

[ebean001]

the rich guys i know will ask affordable health care/insurance. next they will want to buy a house/condo in their name. do not let them know the police may arrest them for playing bridge, darts, or even poker in their private home with friends. they do not break the law. They expect to enjoy activities they are free to do anyplace in the world. 

[BritManToo]

6 minutes ago, NanaSomchai said:

I'm looking forward to it, I won't be holding my breath though.

 

Edit: Also, source?

https://poundf.co.uk/pound-to-baht-forecast-gbp-to-thb

 

This site predicts 60-80 bht/gbp at the end of 2022 and 80-100bht/gbp by 2023.

https://gov.capital/forex/gbp-thb/

Edited October 14, 2021 by BritManToo

[SymS]

Maybe start to have a proper permanent residency program.
Hong Kong, Singapore, Japan come to mind.

 

[NanaSomchai]

10 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

https://poundf.co.uk/pound-to-baht-forecast-gbp-to-thb

 

This site predicts 60-80 bht/gbp at the end of 2022 and 80-100bht/gbp by 2023.

https://gov.capital/forex/gbp-thb/

Neither of these sites seem reliable at all to me.

 

Let alone the 2nd link gov.capital one indicates that on the 2022 October 14, the THB will jump from 43.703 to 69.485 just overnight. Complete rubbish.

[BritManToo]

4 minutes ago, NanaSomchai said:

Let alone the 2nd link gov.capital one indicates that on the 2022 October 14, the THB will jump from 43.703 to 69.485 just overnight. Complete rubbish.

To be fair it's jumped from 35 to 90 overnight at least once in the past.

[NanaSomchai]

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

To be fair it's jumped from 35 to 90 overnight at least once in the past.

And how would you predict a such thing would happen again? I got about 30k USD worth of bitcoin I'd like to trade in the near future...

[WinterGael]

6 hours ago, The Cipher said:

It depends on what 'wealthy' means. Can Thailand outcompete Singapore for UHNW individuals? Unlikely. Can it outcompete Singapore for folks in the $1-10M asset range? It's possible but will depend on intelligently crafted policy.

 

Should easily outcompete Malaysia at all $1M+ wealth levels.

Don't write off Malaysia.  In many ways, it is already ahead of Thailand and growing.  For the most part, my family is fairly wealthy, and for the past 4 or 5 years, have been ignoring Thailand. As wealthy individuals, they find other countries in the area more desirable and easier to deal with. They know about the 5-year visa scheme, and have no interest because all it is designed to do is make money for the government while letting you forgo many of the inconveniences now associated with living in Thailand. It does not address the many negatives that Thailand has with regard to being a home for rich people.  The question that this article doesn't ask, is why are so many expats leaving Thailand?

[NanaSomchai]

1 minute ago, WinterGael said:

The question that this article doesn't ask, is why are so many expats leaving Thailand?

Because just like every countries in the World, Thailand has it's fair share of Pros and Cons.

 

Everything indicates that at the moment, given the current context, the Cons outweight the Pros by far and things are looking pretty grim I'd say.

[simon43]

Simple answer:

 

No!

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, WinterGael said:

The question that this article doesn't ask, is why are so many expats leaving Thailand?

Who can tell, but I agree you're right.

Just last week I walked into CM immigration at 9am for a 1 year family extension and was seen immediately, I was one of 2 applicants, by the time I left (before 11am) nobody was waiting after me. Yet before COVID I would have been number 40 in the queue.

 

Where have all the husbands and fathers of Thai nationals gone?

[Almer]

I fall into the “wealthy “ bracket based on I spend more here than the millionaires who wont be coming, so i and many like me need to be looked after not continually shat on.

[Boarn]

Absurd, Thailand's whole purpose is that of a cheap destination, cheap entertainment, cheap beer, cheap people, simple. How dare they think they are more than that, sickening. It really makes your blood boil.

[rubyjuan]

Thailand could be the greatest place in the world to live, but Thais and the Thai government will never change.  

[NanaSomchai]

11 minutes ago, Boarn said:

Absurd, Thailand's whole purpose is that of a cheap destination, cheap entertainment, cheap beer, cheap people, simple. How dare they think they are more than that, sickening. It really makes your blood boil.

Cheap women, cheap booze.

 

Which neither are being offered at the moment due to too many factors even pre-pandemic.

 

The Thais inifinite and limitless greed have finally killed the golden goose.

[NanaSomchai]

12 minutes ago, rubyjuan said:

Thailand could be the greatest place in the world to live, but Thais and the Thai government will never change.  

Endless, limitless, inifinite greed have finally killed the golden goose.

 

Good luck reviving it which is what they're trying to do.

[BritManToo]

9 minutes ago, NanaSomchai said:

Cheap women, cheap booze.

Which neither are being offered at the moment due to too many factors even pre-pandemic.

The Thais inifinite and limitless greed have finally killed the golden goose.

Affordable housing is more important than beer or women to me.

And Thailand has plenty of affordable housing.

 

Would point out Rum and Vodka are less than half the price of the UK.

Wine coolers (alcopops) are also around 33% cheaper than the UK 

(Hong Thong Rum, Red Cock Vodka, Full Moon wine cooler)

Edited October 14, 2021 by BritManToo

[NanaSomchai]

Just now, BritManToo said:

And Thailand has plenty of affordable housing.

We all have our priorities, I don't blame you.

[newnative]

     Short answer, no.  Not with what has been proposed, which seems to have been formulated by too many clueless cooks.  Instead of going after a few millionaires, (and a few is likely what you'll get), why not concentrate on the next tier below.  Open that up and have a number of different programs--and, especially, have some geared to expats already here, to keep them here.  

   

[RafPinto]

7 hours ago, lkn said:

There is already the Thai Elite visa available starting from 500,000 baht, and there is the special investment visa, where I believe real estate is allowed, but most be > 10 million (if I recall correctly).

 

But attracting one million wealthy people within five year is just wishful thinking.

Wrong.

Minimum now is 600k

[Stocky]

Thailand v Singapore!

That's like Zimbabwe v Monaco. Talk about delusional. 

[GeorgeCross]

4 hours ago, MrMo said:

I recall the question posed to farangs on arrival to Thailand forty years back.
How do you become a millionaire in Thailand ?

Come with many million !

yep they let you own <deleted> all and take home even less

 

Edited October 14, 2021 by GeorgeCross

[GeorgeCross]

10 minutes ago, Stocky said:

Thailand v Singapore!

That's like Zimbabwe v Monaco. Talk about delusional. 

i like KL too, it's a much nicer, more modern city than bangers + can party all night too if thats your thing. 

 

if i was still a businessman i'd be there or singapore for sure - my "serious" friends live and do business there & i've visited them many times. always shown a good time. far better than a cringey tour around lower suk, brushing off freelancers all night.

 

thailands only positive over those 2 cities is the visas are easier and its cheaper..

 

but you do get what you pay for.

[RafPinto]

3 hours ago, NanaSomchai said:

Okay, I'll bite.

 

Portugal is one destination where one could retire; if you are coming from another EU country, you are free to stay 6 months at a time, no visas required, no questions asked. After a year spent in Portugal you are eligible for PR, fill two forms, two pictures and a fingerprint scan, total cost is 10.50$. After three more years you may apply for the citizenship, you de facto becoming a Portuguese citizen and a EU passport holder (the PT passport is ranked highly in the World).

 

As for your cost of living, you can move to Lisbon the economical capital of the country, and apply for a social apartment, the average waiting time is 3 years, once you get it, you can expect a 35$ monthly rent for the council/local authority.

 

The Cascais beaches are immaculate and only 59 minutes away by train from the center of Lisbon, the country has one of the nicest weathers in all of Europe, there is zero police corruption and the state/government is taking care of all your needs albeit a bit slowly.

 

I am sure there are other retrirement destinations that may be worth looking into, I can only speak of what I know, I don't speculate, therefore you should do your own research.

Have you ever lived in Portugal?

 

Yes, I did. My ex is portuguese.

In winter months, cold and most houses have no heating system.

Cars are expensive and even bringing your used car from another european country, you pay a 10% tax.

Fuel is one of the highest in Europe.

Going to the supermarket is more expensive than UK, Germany etc.

Unless you pay private, the social health care system is not good.

I speak from experience. My ex is a Doctor.

 

The list goes on and on...

 

I don't know why so many people dream of Portugal. Probably most of them have never been there.

[LoudHailer]

Thailand has much more to offer retirees than either Singapore or Malaysia. However, the Thai Immigration bureaucracy is intimidating and debilitating and even cruel. Which other countries requires 90 Day Reports, treating retirees, rich and poor, like criminals?

 

The humiliating crush with insufficient space or seating at Chaengwattana, to renew visas of all types, treats everyone without a smidgeon of dignity, like animals herded into a stock yard for slaughter. The Immigration Department needs more  centres across Bangkok to facilitate processing of visas, more staff, more convenience for the foreigners to comply with the complexity of rules and laws. 

 

Longterm resident foreigners are leaving the kingdom because they simply “can’t take it anymore.” 

[medina21]

How did they arrive at one million? Seems like it was picked out of thin air; it's a fantasy figure.